As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options
Self-Perception
sanstodo
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
This is largely drawing from some of the chest-thumping in the NCLB thread.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=17205
I find it interesting that lots of people in the thread think that they're really bright and try to prove it by posting their supposed GPAs and test scores ("I have a test score this high! And a GPA this low! See how your puny metrics fail to measure my AWESOME! [except for the ones I happen to do well in]"). Their self-perception is that they are very, very smart, far smarter than your average bear.
But what about the people who score higher on, say, the SATs? Does self-perception change to "This person is smarter than I am?" Or how about people who have the same SATs and a far better GPA? Does self-perception change to "We are equally smart but they're just a drone/grade hawk"?
Basically, does our self-perception (contained to the people on this forum) ever let us say "Wow, this person is a lot brighter than I am. I could and should listen to them and learn from them"?
My 2 cents: I've learned tons from people on this board and continually meet people above my intelligence and knowledge levels. It was easy to justify my own failings (I did pretty badly in some classes in college when I first started out) by blaming the system and/or others when I was in school. As I eventually realized that I wasn't the smartest person in the room anymore, I started studying much harder, not for the grade increase (I never managed to drag my GPA higher than average), but to simply learn as much as I could from the people around me. Without a decent base of knowledge, it is impossible to learn anything useful from others whose knowledge extends far beyond your own.
It humbled me to some extent (I was an insufferable shit in high school like most reasonably intelligent kids) and impressed upon me how little I knew. I don't know if it's a function of age (I think most of the people posting GPAs and SAT scores are still in high school or newly graduated), exposure, or personality. I do know that college taught me that I was smarter than most but more importantly not nearly as smart and knowledgeable as those who really count.
While it is easy to say "Well, I'm smarter than 90% of the people here", the important lesson is that you're not as smart as the other 10%. That was the largest shift in self-perception I ever encountered, measuring myself against the 10%, not the 90%.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=17205
I find it interesting that lots of people in the thread think that they're really bright and try to prove it by posting their supposed GPAs and test scores ("I have a test score this high! And a GPA this low! See how your puny metrics fail to measure my AWESOME! [except for the ones I happen to do well in]"). Their self-perception is that they are very, very smart, far smarter than your average bear.
But what about the people who score higher on, say, the SATs? Does self-perception change to "This person is smarter than I am?" Or how about people who have the same SATs and a far better GPA? Does self-perception change to "We are equally smart but they're just a drone/grade hawk"?
Basically, does our self-perception (contained to the people on this forum) ever let us say "Wow, this person is a lot brighter than I am. I could and should listen to them and learn from them"?
My 2 cents: I've learned tons from people on this board and continually meet people above my intelligence and knowledge levels. It was easy to justify my own failings (I did pretty badly in some classes in college when I first started out) by blaming the system and/or others when I was in school. As I eventually realized that I wasn't the smartest person in the room anymore, I started studying much harder, not for the grade increase (I never managed to drag my GPA higher than average), but to simply learn as much as I could from the people around me. Without a decent base of knowledge, it is impossible to learn anything useful from others whose knowledge extends far beyond your own.
It humbled me to some extent (I was an insufferable shit in high school like most reasonably intelligent kids) and impressed upon me how little I knew. I don't know if it's a function of age (I think most of the people posting GPAs and SAT scores are still in high school or newly graduated), exposure, or personality. I do know that college taught me that I was smarter than most but more importantly not nearly as smart and knowledgeable as those who really count.
While it is easy to say "Well, I'm smarter than 90% of the people here", the important lesson is that you're not as smart as the other 10%. That was the largest shift in self-perception I ever encountered, measuring myself against the 10%, not the 90%.
sanstodo on
0
Posts
I do appreciate what a lot of people (not going to list names) bring to this forum, but their test scores aren't a part of that.
In my state the SAT is worthless period.
Also, OP, I think you're spending too much time comparing yourself to others. I used to do the samething and I still do to a certain extent today. May I suggest you let go. It did wonders for me.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Seriously though -- I assume everyone else knows something I don't, and I respect that in everyone I meet. You can feel as clever as you want, but when you don't know how to light the pilot on your heater, change the spark plugs in your car, or name some arcane art history, etc., you're just as dumb as everyone else.
WITHOUT LAMPS THERE WOULDN'T BE LIGHT!
So, yeah, I love learning new shit from people, and will happily acknowledge the rare instance in which it's obvious that someone in genuinely more intelligent than I am, even if it doesn't come up very often (given my job, this is not surprising in the least)
When I'm honest with myself, I know damn well that I've yet to encounter anything I legitimately could not learn and understand and use, save simply not putting in the effort to do so.
I'm fairly certain when and if I encounter something truly beyond my comprehension, that'll be quite humbling.
I was simply using that as an example of self-perception. It doesn't really speak to how I live my life.
Anyway, about the SAT thing, I was mostly looking for comments about the way it was used in the other thread. It was waved around as some sort of magic talisman denoting intelligence (the "my GPA sucks but I'm smart cuz my SAT is this HIGH!" statements).
I can't really comprehend high level math at all. Math was pretty easy in high school but when I got to college, I ran into my wall. Other kids understood that stuff and I sat there staring at it, going "wtf is this shit" even after I had studied it pretty intensely.
Doesn't really bother me, though. It was humbling in a way but I never cared about math that much anyway
Your GPA is a pretty shitty way to score your intelligence as well, given how much grades can easily depend on the classes taken, temperment of the prof, etc.
Hell, I dunno if there is any really good measure of intelligence beyond the occasions when it's really obvious someone is brilliant, or a total fucking moron.
i got a 1520 guys
All it tells is how much they care or how their brain is wired to process information. The really smart person is the one who acknowledges they don't know everything, and choose to listen to others. Or at least, thats how I see it.
P.S. I are teh smrater tahn you joo all! (olol)
not really, was commenting on why other people felt like they needed to share theirs
Frankly, there are a lot of times on this board where I feel like an idiot. That's why I come here though... to learn.
For instance, I used to work as a framer. Awesome job, but I suck at it. I mean, I can cut straight and hammer a nail, but when I had to learn something new, it took me a long time to wrap my head around it. Whereas my friend, who I worked with, just understood it outright.
It's the same with cars. I will never be a mechanic, but there are mechanics out there who can make a car dance (just about) but will never understand a computer.
Whenever someone strikes me as stupid, I try to remember just how much I don't know and what the people who are experts in those things must think of me.
I have to say, that's a pretty mediocre score. I mean, the maximum score is 2400. You only got a 63%!
Everyone, let us all mock Zek!
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
no man i'm talking about the old-school SATs
I remember reading somewhere (Can't remember, so I may just be pulling this number out of my ass) that 80% of drivers believe they are an above average driver, which is a statistical impossibility.
Intelligence can't really be measured objectively in most cases. I mean, at the two extremes of the spectrum, it can be done (people who are really intelligent, and people who are really stupid), but for the vast majority of us who fall somewhere between the third and 99.9th percentile of intelligence, it's going to be really subjective.
I have a friend who's getting his Ph.D in Optics. He once gave a presentation to me for which I understood most of the pronouns and articles, and that was it; incredibly advanced math, talking about double-tau particles, highly complex equations, etc. I'd say the guy is way, way smarter than me. However, on the surface, he needs to pull out a calculator to work with basic fractions that I have no problem doing in my head. So, does that mean I'm smarter than him? I helped a lot of engineers/hard science majors get through accounting and business law; that stuff isn't anywhere near as hard as the stuff they were doing, but they had problems with it, whereas I pretty much breezed through it.
I think peoples' brains are just wired differently. If I'm good at analogies and Algebra II, along with taking tests, I get a good SAT score; if I'm not, I don't (okay, that changed recently, but back when I took it that was true).
Their brains simply works faster than mine (or the vast majority of people's) in all respects.
Umm, no? Just because someone is more skilled at something than I am, or has technical knowledge that I lack, does not make me "as dumb as everyone else." Knowing how to do some specific thing is not a measure of intelligence.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Spent most of your life at home so far, eh?
I'm sorry I don't think you've met me before.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Individual people are wonderful people that make life worth living, but the public at large in my store? Fucking retards.
I'm much nicer now that I don't work retail.
All the same, I think some people here are misrepresenting what the SATS are supposed to do. They're not a measure of intelligence. The only test I'm aware of (though I'm sure there are others) that claim to measure intelligence are, of course, IQ tests. IQ tests have their own slew of problems, but they're different from the SATS.
Scores on the SATS and ACT, much like GPA, class rank, and attendance, are used by colleges to determine who they accept because they're supposed to be indicative of how well you will do in college (which, of course, they would hope correlates to some degree with intelligence). I don't think the SATS and ACT have much predictive merit either, but it's wrong to say they're supposed to measure intelligence. The general idea colleges have, of course, is that people who are smart enough to do well on these tests or have high GPAs or whatever will realize that that's what colleges are looking for and so will work towards them. There are some problems with this reasoning, and plenty of smart people who end up with low scores or low GPAs, but it's okay for most colleges as long as retards aren't generally getting perfect scores on the SATS, 4.0 GPAs, and coming in first in their class ranking. And just the same, the smart people the system leaves behind aren't a huge concern to colleges so long as there are smart kids to be drawn from the top who, to them, have displayed a willingness to do the work that they'll ask of you. Again, the reasoning isn't entirely sound, but that's their general way of thinking.
It's only because there aren't cost-effective ways there are obviously better and because this system still works somewhat decently that it's still around.
Threads where ACT, SAT, GPA, and IQ scores are posted usually turn into dick waving contents driven by assholes. You've got some serious self esteem issues if you feel the need to brag about how good your test scores are.
People knock the SATs, and standardized tests in general, but really, someone who got a 1500 probably is smarter than someone who got an 1100.
In short, intelligence is completely subjective, and the only way to get at it is in relative terms and with a lengthy and personal relationship.
Thank you for proving my point.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Not really. See, even if you think my remark was retarded, that's nowhere near sufficient evidence to prove a positive, universal claim. Your "point" is entirely unsupported and frankly rather a retarded claim to make. Mangling quotes from ancient philosophy and expecting people to think you're clever for it is similarly retarded.
I happen to know that I am a very intelligent person, but I am also very aware that "the only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" (for example, I had to look up that quote to remember the exact wording ;-) ). People get cocky, especially online, and start trying to show off their test scores and beat everybody down with their (allegedly) huge brains to satisfy their egos. A far better way to go about things is to acknowledge when you aren't the expert in something, and then educate yourself in it.
VICTOLY!
VC, you should just pre-lime your declaratives.
What you just said reminds me of the story line with the Japanese kid in World War Z by Max Brooks [?] who is able to collect massive amounts of information on the internet but cant analyze or do anything with it.
Any way a lot of the time people just parrot rather than forming their own opinions on things, but what annoys me even more are the people who don't even have opinions and just don't care.
-Robert A. Heinlein