Yeah, Lucas is apparently obsessed with crystal skulls, which is why the script ended up being about them. I don't know whose fault the fridge is, but I do know it was in the script in 1994, and in all of FOURTEEN YEARS noone had the good sense to take it out. I'm assuming one of either Spielberg or Lucas really liked it (for some completely ineffable reason), and I know which one my money's on.
I think some of you may be underestimating the degree to which spending multiple years poring through tomes dedicated to the myriad ways in which Nazis brutalized, humiliated, and murdered millions of people can affect you. I think it's pretty understandable that after staring that shit in the face for an extended period, "Ha ha, Nazis!" may lose a bit of luster.
It's not a question of the academic knowledge that Nazis did bad things. It's more the inability to look at a Nazi uniform without imagining a boxcar of emaciated Jews being hauled to the ovens.
ElJeffe on
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I think some of you may be underestimating the degree to which spending multiple years poring through tomes dedicated to the myriad ways in which Nazis brutalized, humiliated, and murdered millions of people can affect you. I think it's pretty understandable that after staring that shit in the face for an extended period, "Ha ha, Nazis!" may lose a bit of luster.
It's not a question of the academic knowledge that Nazis did bad things. It's more the inability to look at a Nazi uniform without imagining a boxcar of emaciated Jews being hauled to the ovens.
Well its time to suck it up because Russians ain't cutting it.
The Russians are perfectly serviceable villains. James Bond kicked their asses for decades and nobody complained. Not to mention the fact that Nazis in the 50s/60s is just going to look like they were desperate for ideas and just said "Fuck it we'll just do the nazis again".
And I can understand Spielberg's assertion that he couldn't really do the whole cartoon Nazi villain thing anymore. Making a movie is an extremely personal experience, just like writing a novel or any other creative endeavor, and Schindler's story is one that is one that would be very hard to forget, mostly because you realize that it would be wrong to do so.
For the record, while I still have problems with Spielberg's explanation *why* he couldn't do cartoon Nazis again (to me it does boil down to, "I'm ignorant enough not to understand that using communists as the bad guys is just as problematic"), I don't have any problems with Commies replacing the Nazis. I also don't have all that many problems with the crystal skull storyline, although I also prefer metaphysics to sci-fi in my Indiana Jones. I don't even mind Shia LaBoeuf.
To me, it really boils down to Spielberg failing to create any sense of jeopardy in the film. It was disappointingly tame.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I have no problem not taking Nazis seriously. That's right. Make them fucking clowns in movies. Bumbling bad guys. Fuck Nazis, they deserve no respect.
I also have no issue with the commies taking the place of the Nazis. Just make characters i want to dislike instead of ones i could care less about.
I believe with all of my soul that if the Indy series were handed off to Lucas in their entirety we'd eventually see a lightsaber in one of them. I don't think he could help himself!!
If Spielberg can't handle Nazis then perhaps its time he realised he can't perform his duty and hand it over to someone who can. No reason to fuck up a film on your personal preference.
Is there some kind of law that says Indiana Jones has to fight the Nazis, specifically, even when if would make no sense, chronologically speaking, for them to be there?
Is there some kind of law that says Indiana Jones has to fight the Nazis, specifically, even when if would make no sense, chronologically speaking, for them to be there?
There are Nazis alive today, its not non-sensical that thered be a contingent of htem running around after an artifact of power.
And they're good villains or have been anyway. I'm sure Lucas would fuck it up somehow.
I hear what Spielberg is saying with the Nazi thing.
But it's funny to see him interviewed about Crystal Skull. In a very polite way he basically lays out how every terrible idea was Lucas' and Spielberg tried to convince him otherwise.
I hear what Spielberg is saying with the Nazi thing.
But it's funny to see him interviewed about Crystal Skull. In a very polite way he basically lays out how every terrible idea was Lucas' and Spielberg tried to convince him otherwise.
except he's bullshitting. Again, if I remember correctly, nuked fridge, and Shia's magical monkey ride are both Spielberg's ideas.
The thing is, the Frank Darabont draft for Indy 4 (entitled Indiana Jones and the City of the Gods) takes most of Lucas' awful plot points and makes them work. That script is a wondrous thing, and could have been on a par with Raiders had it been filmed. Spielberg liked it, Ford liked it, but Lucas has a grudge against Darabont for Glod only knows what reason and so he veto'd the script.
If you can find the script for City of the Gods I'd seriously recommend sitting down and reading it. And if you can' find it, well, don't ask me.
The thing is, the Frank Darabont draft for Indy 4 (entitled Indiana Jones and the City of the Gods) takes most of Lucas' awful plot points and makes them work. That script is a wondrous thing, and could have been on a par with Raiders had it been filmed. Spielberg liked it, Ford liked it, but Lucas has a grudge against Darabont for Glod only knows what reason and so he veto'd the script.
If you can find the script for City of the Gods I'd seriously recommend sitting down and reading it. And if you can' find it, well, don't ask me.
I hear what Spielberg is saying with the Nazi thing.
But it's funny to see him interviewed about Crystal Skull. In a very polite way he basically lays out how every terrible idea was Lucas' and Spielberg tried to convince him otherwise.
And then the Lucas interview boils down to:
"speelburg livs n teh past, k. i like computers & teh stuff they do. whooooooosh bang bang pow
It's more or less the same core plot - Crystal Skulls, crazy Russian lady wants them, oh hai Marian's back, etc. - but somehow it all comes together really nicely. Sometimes I will just sit and read the script for the fun of it. I don't often do that with screenplays (although I have re-read The Beaver a few times, mostly to try and wrap my head around it).
Nuking the fridge is now a term used for film criticism. When something "nukes the fridge", it has an absurd plot point or event that challenges the viewer's suspension of disbelief so much that the rest of the film suffers, sort of like jumping the shark before the film is even finished.
Also, because I'm a nerd, I went and researched whether lead-lined refrigerators even existed back then and came across something interesting. Apparently refrigerators were unable to open from the inside due to a latch and, though it was rare, occasionally a child would suffocate themselves by climbing into the fridge. Indy probably would have seen the refrigerator as a deathtrap and done something different.
I wouldn't have bothered to look it up at all if my willing suspension of disbelief hadn't been completely obliterated.
I hear what Spielberg is saying with the Nazi thing.
But it's funny to see him interviewed about Crystal Skull. In a very polite way he basically lays out how every terrible idea was Lucas' and Spielberg tried to convince him otherwise.
And then the Lucas interview boils down to:
"speelburg livs n teh past, k. i like computers & teh stuff they do. whooooooosh bang bang pow
also herrisun is not 2 old kthxbye."
Well, I guess he's not too old if the entire thing is filmed on a soundstage.
I don't think the script is all that great, honestly. It's sorta limp. What Spielberg eventually got his boy Koepp to crank out (ugh) isn't anything great, and the Darabont draft IS better, but I still think the movie would have failed on the same level Crystal Skull failed on.
I do wish the scene where Drunk Indy tries to evade campus security on his own campus had stayed in the film, though.
Lucas didn't have a grudge against Darabont, either. He just thought the script wasn't up to par. Darabont now has a huge grudge against Lucas for being a backseat driver and fucking him over, but Lucas wasn't rejecting Darabont's work over some previous wrongdoing. Many claimed it had something to do with Darabont turning down Lucas' offer to write/direct Episode I early in it's gestational period, but there was no animosity, and Darabont was one of the inner circle invited to give feedback on early cuts of that film.
Yeah the fridge part is something that nerds really get their panties wrinkled up about but most people just kind of thought was over the top in a good-natured way.
Yar on
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I never saw any of the new star wars movies except for Episode 1, and haven't seen the originals in about a decade...
So, for those of us who are uninformed, what exactly does Lucas do that is so characteristically bad? It's hard to say with Indy because those movies are usually pretty fun and they're co-directed with Spielberg anyway.
I can't find a YouTube video of Jabba the Hutt being digitized into the original Star Wars, but if anybody else can, that was the most heinous thing to me.
He was half the size he was in RotJ and lame and cutesy and digital.
I never saw any of the new star wars movies except for Episode 1, and haven't seen the originals in about a decade...
So, for those of us who are uninformed, what exactly does Lucas do that is so characteristically bad? It's hard to say with Indy because those movies are usually pretty fun and they're co-directed with Spielberg anyway.
I think some of you may be underestimating the degree to which spending multiple years poring through tomes dedicated to the myriad ways in which Nazis brutalized, humiliated, and murdered millions of people can affect you. I think it's pretty understandable that after staring that shit in the face for an extended period, "Ha ha, Nazis!" may lose a bit of luster.
It's not a question of the academic knowledge that Nazis did bad things. It's more the inability to look at a Nazi uniform without imagining a boxcar of emaciated Jews being hauled to the ovens.
Well its time to suck it up because Russians ain't cutting it.
I agree.
Indy should time travel / become frozen and end up in the future and fight Islamofascists.
You could even keep the palm tree-swastika logo from the third movie.
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KABOOSH!
*Thud*
No wait, I'm not done. I blew up the dumbest part of it on the last page.
I can't get deader. I absorbed your information and turned into sparkles.
It's not a question of the academic knowledge that Nazis did bad things. It's more the inability to look at a Nazi uniform without imagining a boxcar of emaciated Jews being hauled to the ovens.
Well its time to suck it up because Russians ain't cutting it.
And I can understand Spielberg's assertion that he couldn't really do the whole cartoon Nazi villain thing anymore. Making a movie is an extremely personal experience, just like writing a novel or any other creative endeavor, and Schindler's story is one that is one that would be very hard to forget, mostly because you realize that it would be wrong to do so.
To me, it really boils down to Spielberg failing to create any sense of jeopardy in the film. It was disappointingly tame.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I also have no issue with the commies taking the place of the Nazis. Just make characters i want to dislike instead of ones i could care less about.
I believe with all of my soul that if the Indy series were handed off to Lucas in their entirety we'd eventually see a lightsaber in one of them. I don't think he could help himself!!
There are Nazis alive today, its not non-sensical that thered be a contingent of htem running around after an artifact of power.
And they're good villains or have been anyway. I'm sure Lucas would fuck it up somehow.
But it's funny to see him interviewed about Crystal Skull. In a very polite way he basically lays out how every terrible idea was Lucas' and Spielberg tried to convince him otherwise.
except he's bullshitting. Again, if I remember correctly, nuked fridge, and Shia's magical monkey ride are both Spielberg's ideas.
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If you can find the script for City of the Gods I'd seriously recommend sitting down and reading it. And if you can' find it, well, don't ask me.
And then the Lucas interview boils down to:
"speelburg livs n teh past, k. i like computers & teh stuff they do. whooooooosh bang bang pow
also herrisun is not 2 old kthxbye."
Also, because I'm a nerd, I went and researched whether lead-lined refrigerators even existed back then and came across something interesting. Apparently refrigerators were unable to open from the inside due to a latch and, though it was rare, occasionally a child would suffocate themselves by climbing into the fridge. Indy probably would have seen the refrigerator as a deathtrap and done something different.
I wouldn't have bothered to look it up at all if my willing suspension of disbelief hadn't been completely obliterated.
Well, I guess he's not too old if the entire thing is filmed on a soundstage.
I do wish the scene where Drunk Indy tries to evade campus security on his own campus had stayed in the film, though.
Lucas didn't have a grudge against Darabont, either. He just thought the script wasn't up to par. Darabont now has a huge grudge against Lucas for being a backseat driver and fucking him over, but Lucas wasn't rejecting Darabont's work over some previous wrongdoing. Many claimed it had something to do with Darabont turning down Lucas' offer to write/direct Episode I early in it's gestational period, but there was no animosity, and Darabont was one of the inner circle invited to give feedback on early cuts of that film.
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Mostly it would boil down to laser guns and forced love scenes.
a fun game constantly "played" by me and my friends. but I of course hav no examples.
editing in people or dialog or events... a lot of freedom really.
So, for those of us who are uninformed, what exactly does Lucas do that is so characteristically bad? It's hard to say with Indy because those movies are usually pretty fun and they're co-directed with Spielberg anyway.
He was half the size he was in RotJ and lame and cutesy and digital.
And Han steps on his tail. It was retarded.
Star Wars 1-3.
Indi really bothered me on the second viewing, but that scene didn't stand out.
Indy should time travel / become frozen and end up in the future and fight Islamofascists.
You could even keep the palm tree-swastika logo from the third movie.
Couldn't be any worse than Serenity ooooooooooh diss
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