Face is looking much nicer. However I feel like her pelvis is probably getting small and the way you have rendered her abdominals is fairly unpleasant.
MustangArbiter of Unpopular OpinionsRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
The concept is not really working for me, I'm not sure if there is a girl standing behind harry or if he has a third leg. I can see what you're trying to do and it's almost there, but I think the concept was flawed from the start. That being said, I think it still gets the message across and it's beautifully executed.
you've got a point with the wing, but I meant the eyes. I understand he's peeping/peering, the eyes being adjacent to the edge is what I was referencing.
kendeath, your moving into the whole toning/swirly lines to indicate mass way to fast, take some time in your stuff, spend 20 to 40 minutes just measuring it, and lean back to check if it feels right. Your getting squinty football eyed people that are covered in dirt, with super duper long noses and giraffe necks by rushing, it wont kill you if the drawing isn't completely finished
if 10 minutes you cant finish a entire lay in of measurement how can you possibly expect to start applying values with the form being accurate? You need to build up your sight and measurement to gain speed to the point of even applying any tone
if its something like a quicksketch 5 minute pose then yah I find that reasonable to apply tone and quick rhythmic measurements on the form its not exactly supposed to be 100% accurate in that short of a time but at the same time if your sacraficing any resemblance to a human for some tone then your going to fast.
you could just spend 5 minutes measuring and toning a arm in a quicksketch, and you'll be making more progress
edit: those were actually specific things I was looking at, the tone is rushed a long with the measurement, only the afro lady is remotely accurate and she looks like she just came out of a coal mine, you just need to simply slow down a tad and make sure the measurement is right before you do any of that crazy toning/coloring stuff
You make him look pretty feminine in a lot of those head drawings. Also a lot skinnier than he is. Also in the portrait it almost looks like the features were painted onto a featureless manikin.
Ken, I do not think it is wise to shrug off Loom's criticism. It did not seem like he was being a jerk, just giving some honest critique.
Also work on setting up a good gesture before getting into the details. Every one of your figure studies is reading flat, and all the anatomy knowledge in the world won't solve those problems.
Don't worry, i'll back up my words with some studies.
The way we do things here at Max is kooky, but it works. We're big into gesture and putting energy into the pose, and as an animator it's absolutely vital to nail this down. As a result there's a much bigger push towards that than tone, but that doesn't mean we downplay the latter.
I'll try to get you some great examples when I get back home later today; hopefully I can snag some examples at the school.
Ken, posted in your ca sketchbook, thought I'd post here too. You sir are getting wickedly good. The last oil portraits awesome, great control, and I liked the brush work on the still life one especially. Keep it up!
t i m on
God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now I am so far behind that I will never die.†Bill Watterson
It's actually really hard, and they're picky as shit. They really don't fuck around this year; it's either you do 110 percent or your ass is outta there by Christmas.
Don't worry, i'll back up my words with some studies.
The way we do things here at Max is kooky, but it works. We're big into gesture and putting energy into the pose, and as an animator it's absolutely vital to nail this down. As a result there's a much bigger push towards that than tone, but that doesn't mean we downplay the latter.
I'll try to get you some great examples when I get back home later today; hopefully I can snag some examples at the school.
Please do but in the mean time how exactly do you define "flat"? In terms of a form not appearing to have volume or flat as in lifeless and stiff. Flat as in flat like a heart rate monitor showing no pulse? Ive had art conversations in the past where we were discussing something only to realize the two of us defined a word slightly differently and once that was established we were in complete agreement.
It's your entire underlining infrastructure. It's a pretty bare bones set-up, and then you tend to go all crazy with the values and tones. If you sat down and prepared out either a decent gesture, modeling study, silhouette exercise or all three, it'd be much easier to establish that coveted depth in space with your tones, rather than the color stacking you seem to be doing.
Don't get me wrong here, what you're doing is working, but by combining both the knowledge and purpose of these exercises with your already-present knowledge of light/shade, your artwork would be frightening.
Out of all three of these exercises, the gesture is the most important part of your piece; the Magnum Opus to your figure structure. If your gesture doesn't feel like it can leap right out of the page from the sheer energy of it, you shouldn't move on. I don't know how to put it, but you should be able to feel the weight of the figure solely from the gesture. Everything else is just icing after that.
Earlier today I said i'd post a copy of the gestures that illustrate the point i'm so desperately trying to make, but unfortunately the office didn't have a copy at the ready (understandable really). I'll take a couple of pictures for your viewing sometime during the weekend, but in the meantime check out these life studies from the third year animation students:
To be honest, none of them fully grasp the "weight" I was talking about, but the general idea is there, so they have a decent enough understanding of it. The most emphasis is put on the part that supports and balances the entire pose, and it was beautifully done in the examples i've yet to post.
EDIT: Also look up Glen Keane to further back up this post.
He was the leading supervising animator at Disney for the Beast himself in Beauty and the Beast, which is arguably his greatest piece of work. His runner up would probably be Pocahontas from the movie of the same name, in charge of supervising the lead character herself.
Even though he's not in the same field you're pursuing, his animation has the extremely difficult subtle gesture emotions and movements that are so coveted among animators at the Disney studios. Pocahontas was the best example of this because of how limited the range of emotion was for the heroine.
Now I get what you are talking about.. Fantastic critique man. Gave me a lot to think about. Id very much like to see those drawings if you get a chance to photograph them. Also that school looks aweome.
As important as gesture is, you can't have good gesture without good structure. Structure doesn't necessarily mean 'anatomy', more like sound shape and volume. Animation is great from a gesture standpoint and people should look at those drawings for that. Because beyond that, most of those drawings can get chaotic, and have wavering degrees of structure. And thats okay, because they really aren't about structure as much as the weight and gesture.. ateliers will emphasize more structure than anything, but it'll vary from school to school.
Also.. Glen keane.. As good as beast was.. still doesn't hold a candle to tarzan.. from an animation standpoint that movie is sheer brilliance.. also.. the bear scene in fox in the hound. Pocahontas was only awesome for her hair. She has nothing on Ariel lol..
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Your head studies are really improving though Ken. The placements on the rest of them are a lot stronger.
Oh, I was mentioning that those areas are the ones that I think need improving, as the short, parallel brushstrokes are most obvious there.
Mustang- Agreed.
Bout an hour and a half?
Very slow on my part...
I hope you ascertained this with a swift poke.
also, with the lace is better.
The idea is pretty solid, but I think that bit of dissonance in what is actually being seen might muddle the concept.
edit: also Harry's lack of a right leg is a bit disconcerting.
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if 10 minutes you cant finish a entire lay in of measurement how can you possibly expect to start applying values with the form being accurate? You need to build up your sight and measurement to gain speed to the point of even applying any tone
if its something like a quicksketch 5 minute pose then yah I find that reasonable to apply tone and quick rhythmic measurements on the form its not exactly supposed to be 100% accurate in that short of a time but at the same time if your sacraficing any resemblance to a human for some tone then your going to fast.
you could just spend 5 minutes measuring and toning a arm in a quicksketch, and you'll be making more progress
edit: those were actually specific things I was looking at, the tone is rushed a long with the measurement, only the afro lady is remotely accurate and she looks like she just came out of a coal mine, you just need to simply slow down a tad and make sure the measurement is right before you do any of that crazy toning/coloring stuff
Also work on setting up a good gesture before getting into the details. Every one of your figure studies is reading flat, and all the anatomy knowledge in the world won't solve those problems.
The way we do things here at Max is kooky, but it works. We're big into gesture and putting energy into the pose, and as an animator it's absolutely vital to nail this down. As a result there's a much bigger push towards that than tone, but that doesn't mean we downplay the latter.
I'll try to get you some great examples when I get back home later today; hopefully I can snag some examples at the school.
Yup.
It's actually really hard, and they're picky as shit. They really don't fuck around this year; it's either you do 110 percent or your ass is outta there by Christmas.
It's your entire underlining infrastructure. It's a pretty bare bones set-up, and then you tend to go all crazy with the values and tones. If you sat down and prepared out either a decent gesture, modeling study, silhouette exercise or all three, it'd be much easier to establish that coveted depth in space with your tones, rather than the color stacking you seem to be doing.
Don't get me wrong here, what you're doing is working, but by combining both the knowledge and purpose of these exercises with your already-present knowledge of light/shade, your artwork would be frightening.
Out of all three of these exercises, the gesture is the most important part of your piece; the Magnum Opus to your figure structure. If your gesture doesn't feel like it can leap right out of the page from the sheer energy of it, you shouldn't move on. I don't know how to put it, but you should be able to feel the weight of the figure solely from the gesture. Everything else is just icing after that.
Earlier today I said i'd post a copy of the gestures that illustrate the point i'm so desperately trying to make, but unfortunately the office didn't have a copy at the ready (understandable really). I'll take a couple of pictures for your viewing sometime during the weekend, but in the meantime check out these life studies from the third year animation students:
http://www.maxthemutt.com/2009-yr3-a-lifedrawing.asp
To be honest, none of them fully grasp the "weight" I was talking about, but the general idea is there, so they have a decent enough understanding of it. The most emphasis is put on the part that supports and balances the entire pose, and it was beautifully done in the examples i've yet to post.
EDIT: Also look up Glen Keane to further back up this post.
He was the leading supervising animator at Disney for the Beast himself in Beauty and the Beast, which is arguably his greatest piece of work. His runner up would probably be Pocahontas from the movie of the same name, in charge of supervising the lead character herself.
Even though he's not in the same field you're pursuing, his animation has the extremely difficult subtle gesture emotions and movements that are so coveted among animators at the Disney studios. Pocahontas was the best example of this because of how limited the range of emotion was for the heroine.
Also.. Glen keane.. As good as beast was.. still doesn't hold a candle to tarzan.. from an animation standpoint that movie is sheer brilliance.. also.. the bear scene in fox in the hound. Pocahontas was only awesome for her hair. She has nothing on Ariel lol..