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Boobytrapping software for filesharing sites

12357

Posts

  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Not going to say because neither piece of information is relevant to the discussion and would just seem like publicity attempts, so I'm not going to post them here. Using search may return such games as I've posted them here before, but it won't always return games that I've putty dummy versions up of.
    You have yet to ever prove that what I'm doing is illegal.

    Prove it.

    FyreWulff on
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    That makes it seem like you know that what you're doing is wrong, you know that right?

    Lord Yod on
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  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    That makes it seem like you know that what you're doing is wrong, you know that right?

    Besides the fact that nobody mentions who they work for or what they do on the PA forums? Yeah. Has nothing to do with that, I'm just not going to be written into the 'publicity' corner.

    But then again, presumed guilt exercises are always fun! (I don't think at any point what I am doing is wrong. 100% Confidence)

    So please get back on the topic of actual boobytrapping software aimed at filesharing/pirate sites.

    FyreWulff on
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I think it's fairly obvious that it isn't anything related to publicity at this point but rather several users expressing their desire not to give a company their money after learning of a practice like that. No matter what kind of mental hoops you are jumping through to justify this to yourself it still smells like bullshit to me.

    How do you address the example above of a teenager who fucks up the family computer?

    How about someone who lives in a region that gets a shitty download from your server for some reason but an excellent speed from P2P networks? Is it somehow wrong for them to purchase the game from you and then download it off of a bittorrent site?

    Edit: Do you think it's wrong for a customer to have the capability to decide for themselves that they won't be purchasing any games from a company that uses a DRM system such as SecuROM because they are morally opposed to its bullshit?

    Lord Yod on
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  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    I think it's fairly obvious that it isn't anything related to publicity at this point but rather several users expressing their desire not to give a company their money after learning of a practice like that. No matter what kind of mental hoops you are jumping through to justify this to yourself it still smells like bullshit to me.

    Good. I don't want their money anyway. These people mad at me have never heard of my games, and the pirates weren't planning on paying money for anything anyway, so I haven't lost any sales.
    How do you address the example above of a teenager who fucks up the family computer?

    He's a fucking idiot for confirming 3 times that the disk utility wanted to delete C:/Windows
    How about someone who lives in a region that gets a shitty download from your server for some reason but an excellent speed from P2P networks? Is it somehow wrong for them to purchase the game from you and then download it off of a bittorrent site?

    We have servers in all regions so this is moot. And yes.

    FyreWulff on
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    I think it's fairly obvious that it isn't anything related to publicity at this point but rather several users expressing their desire not to give a company their money after learning of a practice like that. No matter what kind of mental hoops you are jumping through to justify this to yourself it still smells like bullshit to me.

    Good. I don't want their money anyway.

    If you would kindly tell me what games you are implanting this stuff in I will be extra careful never to buy them.

    Lord Yod on
    steam_sig.png
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    I think it's fairly obvious that it isn't anything related to publicity at this point but rather several users expressing their desire not to give a company their money after learning of a practice like that. No matter what kind of mental hoops you are jumping through to justify this to yourself it still smells like bullshit to me.

    Good. I don't want their money anyway.

    If you would kindly tell me what games you are implanting this stuff in I will be extra careful never to buy them.

    If you had actually bothered to read the thread, you would know that none of the actual games have any sort of directory deletion code in them. The boobytrap only exists as a dummy file on pirate networks. There is zero chance of running into the code (because it's nowhere in the actual game) if you actually pay for other people's work.

    The dummy disk utility doesn't even share code with the game it's pretending to be. It's just a program with disk utility graphics and the deletion prompt. The files that are with it are just stuffed with random data to make it look like the actual game by making the download larger.

    FyreWulff on
  • RBachRBach Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    He's not implanting anything. The "malicious" code he distributes through torrents sites is completely separate from his actual games.

    Also, if you guys would look at FyreWulff's profile you'd see that http://www.studioeres.com/games is listed as him homepage. I'd assume those are his games. :)

    RBach on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Dudes, seriously, arguing with FireWulff is just a bad idea. Even if you could point to an actual law saying what he was doing was illegal, he'd still deny he was in the wrong.

    Or if about 6 lawyers said it was illegal.


    I have a bit of experience in the matter.


    Just let it drop, so that we can start discussing actual booby-trapping in games, IE: Arkham Asylum and Titan's Quest.

    MechMantis on
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    RBach wrote: »
    He's not implanting anything. The "malicious" code he distributes through torrents sites is completely separate from his actual games.

    Also, if you guys would look at FyreWulff's profile you'd see that http://www.studioeres.com/games is listed as him homepage. I'd assume those are his games. :)

    Not really - that's just the group label I worked under for a bit. I'm slow and haven't updated my profile in a while. (the game I did make has since been removed from the index since we parted ways)

    FyreWulff on
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Dudes, seriously, arguing with FireWulff is just a bad idea. Even if you could point to an actual law saying what he was doing was illegal, he'd still deny he was in the wrong.

    Except that nobody has found this magical law, so you can take your personal attacks elsewhere.

    So unless someone can prove that programs that ask you to do something and then do it are illegal, I think we're done here.

    FyreWulff on
  • CmdPromptCmdPrompt Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Dudes, seriously, arguing with FireWulff is just a bad idea. Even if you could point to an actual law saying what he was doing was illegal, he'd still deny he was in the wrong.

    Except that nobody has found this magical law, so you can take your personal attacks elsewhere.

    So unless someone can prove that programs that ask you to do something and then do it are illegal, I think we're done here.

    There's a difference between acting with intent to harm by maliciously spreading a program that deletes data and a program designed to format a disk. Had you simply put up a message saying "olol don't pirate," it would be easy to prove that you intended to waste the person's time rather than cause any harm. However, even with the messages, it seems to me (and about half of this thread from the looks of it) like you've created this program with intent to harm, meaning you're liable for any damages that it would cause.

    IANAL, but this seems to be covered under 18 U.S.C. § 1030. You can peruse it yourself.

    CmdPrompt on
    GxewS.png
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    I think it's fairly obvious that it isn't anything related to publicity at this point but rather several users expressing their desire not to give a company their money after learning of a practice like that. No matter what kind of mental hoops you are jumping through to justify this to yourself it still smells like bullshit to me.

    Good. I don't want their money anyway.

    If you would kindly tell me what games you are implanting this stuff in I will be extra careful never to buy them.

    If you had actually bothered to read the thread, you would know that none of the actual games have any sort of directory deletion code in them. The boobytrap only exists as a dummy file on pirate networks. There is zero chance of running into the code (because it's nowhere in the actual game) if you actually pay for other people's work.

    The dummy disk utility doesn't even share code with the game it's pretending to be. It's just a program with disk utility graphics and the deletion prompt. The files that are with it are just stuffed with random data to make it look like the actual game by. making the download larger.

    This doesn't somehow make it not a dick move to do, though, which is my point.

    And please don't tell me you actually think moves like this will increase the sales of your games?

    The bottom line is that developers seem to be under the impression that all those pirates would actually buy those games, if only they had used better DRM. Experience has told us that no matter what, if you release a game, it will be pirated. If your game is shitty, nobody will buy it. If your game is really awesome, though, it will sell really well despite any number of torrents available. I've bought World of Goo twice now because it's a really great game, not because it's difficult to find a cracked copy.

    Lord Yod on
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  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Here is the game right here.

    I'll be waiting for the armchair Batmans to press charges against me.

    FyreWulff on
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Here is the game right here.

    I'll be waiting for the armchair Batmans to press charges against me.

    The irony is palpable.

    And with that, I disappear!

    MechMantis on
  • DekuStickDekuStick Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ok I ran Fyre's "Game" and it is the best thing ever. If you are stupid enough to kill your windows with it you shouldn't be on a computer.

    coolgame.png

    DekuStick on
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Here is the game right here.

    I'll be waiting for the armchair Batmans to press charges against me.
    This is pretty silly :D

    You're not going to break anyone's computer, you won't convince anyone to stop pirating and you're certainly not going to get anyone to buy your game who wasn't already planning on it. What's the point? I just don't get why you would do this.

    Also, bit of advice: uploading a single .rar is against file sharing etiquette so this will just get flagged

    Azio on
  • psychotixpsychotix __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    I think it's fairly obvious that it isn't anything related to publicity at this point but rather several users expressing their desire not to give a company their money after learning of a practice like that. No matter what kind of mental hoops you are jumping through to justify this to yourself it still smells like bullshit to me.

    Good. I don't want their money anyway.

    If you would kindly tell me what games you are implanting this stuff in I will be extra careful never to buy them.

    If you had actually bothered to read the thread, you would know that none of the actual games have any sort of directory deletion code in them. The boobytrap only exists as a dummy file on pirate networks. There is zero chance of running into the code (because it's nowhere in the actual game) if you actually pay for other people's work.

    The dummy disk utility doesn't even share code with the game it's pretending to be. It's just a program with disk utility graphics and the deletion prompt. The files that are with it are just stuffed with random data to make it look like the actual game by. making the download larger.

    This doesn't somehow make it not a dick move to do, though, which is my point.

    And please don't tell me you actually think moves like this will increase the sales of your games?

    The bottom line is that developers seem to be under the impression that all those pirates would actually buy those games, if only they had used better DRM. Experience has told us that no matter what, if you release a game, it will be pirated. If your game is shitty, nobody will buy it. If your game is really awesome, though, it will sell really well despite any number of torrents available. I've bought World of Goo twice now because it's a really great game, not because it's difficult to find a cracked copy.


    He's part of cyber crime, and just as bad as the worst. I give botnet runners a better moral high ground than him now. Hell, I'd give the RIAA better moral high ground.

    psychotix on
  • RBachRBach Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    psychotix wrote: »
    He's part of cyber crime, and just as bad as the worst. I give botnet runners a better moral high ground than him now. Hell, I'd give the RIAA better moral high ground.

    I think that's just a bit over the top...

    RBach on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    It's pretty harmless. Just dumb.

    Azio on
  • FatsFats Corvallis, ORRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Once again, if the explanation had been posted first instead of a vague "booby trapped versions", I think this thread would be a lot less dumb.

    Anyway, to get back to the original topic, Fyrewulff, what are your thoughts on software that doesn't have two separate versions, but is designed to malfunction in response to certain triggers (Earthbound, Titan Quest, etc.)? Certainly you'd catch more pirates that way (for a bit, at least), but would it be worth the extra effort?
    Or how about the version I imagined when I read "booby trapped", and show a big "GET A JOB, LOSERS" screen while you're deleting their MBR.

    Fats on
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Fats wrote: »
    Once again, if the explanation had been posted first instead of a vague "booby trapped versions", I think this thread would be a lot less dumb.

    Anyway, to get back to the original topic, Fyrewulff, what are your thoughts on software that doesn't have two separate versions, but is designed to malfunction in response to certain triggers (Earthbound, Titan Quest, etc.)? Certainly you'd catch more pirates that way (for a bit, at least), but would it be worth the extra effort?
    Or how about the version I imagined when I read "booby trapped", and show a big "GET A JOB, LOSERS" screen while you're deleting their MBR.

    The Earthbound deleting your save at the last boss makes me stand up and salute the programmers.

    However paying for the detection software is too much (and it's too easy to memory scan on PC), so it's much cheaper and easier to just troll the pirates.

    Edit: Also the C&C one where your entire base blows up is hilarious, because I accidentally got hit by it one time (protip: never install C&C over a networked CD drive). Even the fucking dogs in Red Alert explode into shrapnel.

    But yeah if I could afford actual protection schemes I'd do all sorts of hilarious shit. Firing a gun and the bullets curve around and come back and hit you in the face, guns that suddenly jam, cars that veer towards the left and have no brakes, etc.

    FyreWulff on
  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    RBach wrote: »
    psychotix wrote: »
    He's part of cyber crime, and just as bad as the worst. I give botnet runners a better moral high ground than him now. Hell, I'd give the RIAA better moral high ground.

    I think that's just a bit over the top...

    FyreWulff's green screen of retardation is definitely ethically worse than suing grandmothers and organized crime. Now we know. Thank god we have the wise hand of psychotix to guide our morality.

    Lemming on
  • GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    CmdPrompt wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Dudes, seriously, arguing with FireWulff is just a bad idea. Even if you could point to an actual law saying what he was doing was illegal, he'd still deny he was in the wrong.

    Except that nobody has found this magical law, so you can take your personal attacks elsewhere.

    So unless someone can prove that programs that ask you to do something and then do it are illegal, I think we're done here.

    There's a difference between acting with intent to harm by maliciously spreading a program that deletes data and a program designed to format a disk. Had you simply put up a message saying "olol don't pirate," it would be easy to prove that you intended to waste the person's time rather than cause any harm. However, even with the messages, it seems to me (and about half of this thread from the looks of it) like you've created this program with intent to harm, meaning you're liable for any damages that it would cause.

    IANAL, but this seems to be covered under 18 U.S.C. § 1030. You can peruse it yourself.

    I've also mentioned that what he's doing is pretty explicitly breaking UK law under the 1990 computer misuse act of which I'm sure there is a US equivalent. TBH, I think regardless of what laws we cite he has got it in his mind that what he's doing is perfectly legal. He knows what he is doing is wrong and yet continues to do it. Frankly, from his comments alone I think it has shown his general immaturity, from declaring us to defending piracy to claiming this is legal. There is a mental disconnect in his mind from what he sees as legal and right and what is actually legal and right.

    GrimReaper on
    PSN | Steam
    ---
    I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    Too bad UK law doesn't apply to me! And I'm pretty sure I'm not even breaking that law. In fact, give me a moment and I'll go over it.

    edit: Well, here's your UK law.

    3(1) A person is guilty of an offence if

    a) he does any act in a way which causes the unauthorized modification of the contents of any computer; and
    b) at the time when he does so the act he has the requisite intent and the requisite knowledge.

    And here's where your argument falls apart. I am not making any unauthorized changes to a computer. The program asks you 3 times, and is set up so it's impossible to just "yesclick" through. You have to authorize it to do anything.

    Unless Norton Systemworks, DBAN, and all those other programs are now illegal?

    edit: And by the way, I already read that US law before all of this, and it doesn't apply either because of the lynchpin of authorization (and makes no attempt to exceed it's authorization - it does exactly what you tell it to do). It looks like people are just googling, taking the first hit and then just typing whatever they want.

    FyreWulff on
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Sorry I just don't get the whole point of replacing your game with a utility that asks you 3 times if you want to delete your windows directory. Okay, sure, no one will be dumb enough to do it, but then why do you have it in the first place? Why don't you just have some amusing, annoying program that irritates everyone who's pirated your game, rather than having a potentially incredibly severe consequence that probably won't actually apply to most people? Do you hate people who don't read dialogs? I mean, that's the only reason that makes any sense.

    I mean, couldn't you just take a branch of your game source, screw around with it and put bugs in it, then make a custom build and put that out onto torrent sites?

    RandomEngy on
    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Sorry I just don't get the whole point of replacing your game with a utility that asks you 3 times if you want to delete your windows directory. Okay, sure, no one will be dumb enough to do it, but then why do you have it in the first place? Why don't you just have some amusing, annoying program that irritates everyone who's pirated your game, rather than having a potentially incredibly severe consequence that probably won't actually apply to most people? Do you hate people who don't read dialogs? I mean, that's the only reason that makes any sense.

    I mean, couldn't you just take a branch of your game source, screw around with it and put bugs in it, then make a custom build and put that out onto torrent sites?

    No, because that would take more than 5 minutes to do.

    FyreWulff on
  • GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Too bad UK law doesn't apply to me! And I'm pretty sure I'm not even breaking that law. In fact, give me a moment and I'll go over it.

    edit: Well, here's your UK law.

    3(1) A person is guilty of an offence if

    a) he does any act in a way which causes the unauthorized modification of the contents of any computer; and
    b) at the time when he does so the act he has the requisite intent and the requisite knowledge.

    And here's where your argument falls apart. I am not making any unauthorized changes to a computer. The program asks you 3 times, and is set up so it's impossible to just "yesclick" through. You have to authorize it to do anything.

    Unless Norton Systemworks, DBAN, and all those other programs are now illegal?

    edit: And by the way, I already read that US law before all of this, and it doesn't apply either because of the lynchpin of authorization (and makes no attempt to exceed it's authorization - it does exactly what you tell it to do). It looks like people are just googling, taking the first hit and then just typing whatever they want.

    Again, you're missing the entire point. Read the bit about intent, your intent is to wipe the pc. Your intent is not to release a disk utility but to wipe the persons pc. Again, the deceptive nature of releasing it as "the game" and not as a disk utility simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

    Your reading of the law is flawed, I can cite others you're breaking if you want to?

    GrimReaper on
    PSN | Steam
    ---
    I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    GrimReaper wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Too bad UK law doesn't apply to me! And I'm pretty sure I'm not even breaking that law. In fact, give me a moment and I'll go over it.

    edit: Well, here's your UK law.

    3(1) A person is guilty of an offence if

    a) he does any act in a way which causes the unauthorized modification of the contents of any computer; and
    b) at the time when he does so the act he has the requisite intent and the requisite knowledge.

    And here's where your argument falls apart. I am not making any unauthorized changes to a computer. The program asks you 3 times, and is set up so it's impossible to just "yesclick" through. You have to authorize it to do anything.

    Unless Norton Systemworks, DBAN, and all those other programs are now illegal?

    edit: And by the way, I already read that US law before all of this, and it doesn't apply either because of the lynchpin of authorization (and makes no attempt to exceed it's authorization - it does exactly what you tell it to do). It looks like people are just googling, taking the first hit and then just typing whatever they want.

    Again, you're missing the entire point. Read the bit about intent, your intent is to wipe the pc. Your intent is not to release a disk utility but to wipe the persons pc. Again, the deceptive nature of releasing it as "the game" and not as a disk utility simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

    Your reading of the law is flawed, I can cite others you're breaking if you want to?

    You don't know how to read laws. The intent part only covers if the person accidentally deleted files. IE if your Stupid Teenager accidentally formats C:/ while working on a customer's computer, he does not break the law because he didn't have intention. So far you're still arguing that DBAN, Norton, etc are lawbreaking since their entire "intent" is to destroy data.

    The law stacks. My actions have to meet both the conditions of A and B (notice the "and" that binds them together). Try again.

    So unless one of you that keep saying I'm breaking a law can actually prove I'm breaking any law, I suggest we end this little post arc. Because I'm not going to respond to it anymore because I'm tired of copying and pasting shit I already posted.

    FyreWulff on
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    As long as the program is upfront about what it's going to do and asks for the user's permission beforehand, it doesn't matter what the user was told the program was before she downloaded it.

    How often have you downloaded some legit software and it's then attempted to lumber you with a shitty toolbar or something?

    Æthelred on
    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
  • GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    You don't know how to read laws. The intent part only covers if the person accidentally deleted files. IE if your Stupid Teenager accidentally formats C:/ while working on a customer's computer, he does not break the law because he didn't have intention. So far you're still arguing that DBAN, Norton, etc are lawbreaking since their entire "intent" is to destroy data.

    The law stacks. My actions have to meet both the conditions of A and B (notice the "and" that binds them together). Try again.

    So unless one of you that keep saying I'm breaking a law can actually prove I'm breaking any law, I suggest we end this little post arc. Because I'm not going to respond to it anymore because I'm tired of copying and pasting shit I already posted.

    I would strongly argue that you don't understand the law at all.

    So, what you're saying is that your deception of advertising and declaring what you post on some pirate site as a game but is in fact a disk wipe program as perfectly legal? Sorry, but you're still falling foul under intent.

    After all, you yourself said: "I've uploaded booby trapped versions of my games to torrent sites."

    Booby trap indicates deception to wipe the persons drive without that realisation, regardless of whether you're asking them to wipe the disk after running it.

    Again, a disk utility such as norton ADVERTISES ITSELF as a disk utility. You're posting what claims to be a game but is infact a disk wiping program a "booby trap" as again, you yourself said. Correct me if i'm wrong but booby traps aren't made to be knowledgeably (spelling?) tripped by a person.

    GrimReaper on
    PSN | Steam
    ---
    I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    GrimReaper wrote: »
    Booby trap indicates deception to wipe the persons drive without that realisation, regardless of whether you're asking them to wipe the disk after running it.

    I think the arguing over whether or not FyreWulff's actions are legal or not is silly when none of us are lawyers. Though, if you believe this statement, then would agree that what Earthbound did was also illegal? Since, it wiped your "disk" (your save files) without it advertising it as such. If you think it is legal (what Earthbound did), what do you think the key differences are?

    chrono_traveller on
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2009
    So now you have no support behind your previous argument so now you're just being pedantic. Got it.

    FyreWulff on
  • GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    GrimReaper wrote: »
    Booby trap indicates deception to wipe the persons drive without that realisation, regardless of whether you're asking them to wipe the disk after running it.

    I think the arguing over whether or not FyreWulff's actions are legal or not is silly when none of us are lawyers. Though, if you believe this statement, then would agree that what Earthbound did was also illegal? Since, it wiped your "disk" (your save files) without it advertising it as such. If you think it is legal (what Earthbound did), what do you think the key differences are?

    I'm not familiar with Earthbound, but if they released a file to a pirate site with the intent to wipe a hard disk and deceptively posted it as "earthbound" and said it was the earthbound game. Then yeah, i'd say they're falling foul of the law because their intent is to wipe peoples hard drives.

    Essentially the intent is to trick someone into wiping their hard disk, is what FyreWulff's doing.
    FyreWulff wrote:
    So now you have no support behind your previous argument so now you're just being pedantic. Got it.

    If you want to continue being immature rather than addressing the points that's your lookout.

    GrimReaper on
    PSN | Steam
    ---
    I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    3(1) A person is guilty of an offence if

    a) he does any act in a way which causes the unauthorized modification of the contents of any computer; and
    b) at the time when he does so the act he has the requisite intent and the requisite knowledge.

    I realize that the UK is about a cunthair away from being a police state, but the serfs still have the right to "authorize" modifications to their computer; in this case, the wanton deletion of files.

    Whether or not FyreWulff is being a dick/juvenile/vigilante/The Goddamn Batman in the way that he's going about carpet-bombing people's PCs, he is, in fact, asking their permission before their shit gets fucked, which means that part A of that law isn't satisfied.

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  • CmdPromptCmdPrompt Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    GrimReaper wrote: »
    Booby trap indicates deception to wipe the persons drive without that realisation, regardless of whether you're asking them to wipe the disk after running it.

    I think the arguing over whether or not FyreWulff's actions are legal or not is silly when none of us are lawyers. Though, if you believe this statement, then would agree that what Earthbound did was also illegal? Since, it wiped your "disk" (your save files) without it advertising it as such. If you think it is legal (what Earthbound did), what do you think the key differences are?
    Save files have no real monetary value while what's stored on your computer does.

    CmdPrompt on
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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    CmdPrompt wrote: »
    GrimReaper wrote: »
    Booby trap indicates deception to wipe the persons drive without that realisation, regardless of whether you're asking them to wipe the disk after running it.

    I think the arguing over whether or not FyreWulff's actions are legal or not is silly when none of us are lawyers. Though, if you believe this statement, then would agree that what Earthbound did was also illegal? Since, it wiped your "disk" (your save files) without it advertising it as such. If you think it is legal (what Earthbound did), what do you think the key differences are?
    Save files have no real monetary value while what's stored on your computer does.
    People shouldn't be so eager to delete their valuable files then.

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  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So if I make a fake game that asks the user in obscure syntax (for the average user) if they want to wipe their drive, is that against the law?

    Like:

    Dialogue box 1: would you like to register InsertName with InsertCompany?

    [YES] [NO]

    Dialogue box 2: Skip registration and deltree/y c?

    [YES] [NO]

    I mean, how straight forward does your disclaimer have to be before your fake game that's actually trying to wipe user data becomes illegal?

    Ego on
    Erik
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Nobody here is actually a lawyer. Unless that specific instance has been tested in court, it is in limbo. Likewise, how explicit do you have to get before it's not illegal? The answer is, somebody will have to sue somebody else and find out.

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  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Nobody here is actually a lawyer. Unless that specific instance has been tested in court, it is in limbo. Likewise, how explicit do you have to get before it's not illegal? The answer is, somebody will have to sue somebody else and find out.

    So in other words, Fyrewulf shouldn't be so confident that he's in the legal clear? Because software pretending to be a game isn't exactly straightforwardly announcing that it's on par with drive-cleaner utilities...

    Ego on
    Erik
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