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Toast's Art Materials

SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
edited September 2009 in Artist's Corner
Uh, hey guys... I've been a long-time reader of the comic.
I've been drawing for a long time and... I have a more animated/'anime' style of artwork. I've tried more realistic stuff over the year but when I try to draw a more realistic eye... I dunno, it's always looked weird.
I tend to draw more robots/transformers/techno-organics then anything though I do try to draw humans once in a while. A friend said I'd probably crucified if I posted my stuff here... so I'm posting it because I've been craving critique other then what my low opinion of my artwork is. :P
I draw in digital and traditional... but mostly traditional these days.
One of my biggest problems is I have trouble moving beyond drawing standing poses... but according to my friends I do alright.
Anyways, here goes...

The last 'human' I've done in the last few years, a two hour entry for the Phoenix Comicon's Art Tour Art Contest. Character for a comic concept I've had for a while. I know, I kind of screwed up the proportions for the arms. ^^; Got 1st place but... I dunno, there's a number of errors there.
BrianSketch.jpg

The next newest human picture I did. Was for the same contest, previous night. There's a lot of things that went wrong... especially with the fact I didn't have a pen at the time even though I was working with color pencils.
AsylumSketch.jpg

Secret Santa Gift art. Did up a friends character in the Transformers Animated Style. His character Sentinus Prime, transforms into one of those SWAT style tanks except cybertronian-style.
SecretSantaSentinus.jpg

Some more recent commission work for a friend to help pay the bills. Transformers Post-Beast Machines style transformers.
Synth, Nightengale Singer.
Synthfinal.jpg

Triphop, Sphinx Guitarist.
Triphopfinal.jpg

Stompbox, Turtle Guitarist.
Stompbox.jpg

Whiteout, White Dragon Vocalist.
Whiteout2ndTry.jpg

And then here's more of my experimental tries at things. Mostly sketches and stuff I've done on the side of other things I'm working on. Some bigger stuff though too.
AllyBrianZoo.jpg

I know, the hair is wonky on this one. ^^:
Cheerleaders-1.jpg

LastScan.jpg

OnyxAsyRnR.jpg

RemixSk.jpg

OldSklXtremeSk.jpg

NatSketch.jpg

FrontGuards2.jpg

Any Crits and what not would be appreciated.

SmokedToast on

Posts

  • PennyfreqsPennyfreqs Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    1. Stop drawing anime. Unless you want to forever draw untalented, foundation-less stuff for your friends, in which case continue.
    2. Buy some art books, learn to draw from life. Do NOT misinterpret that as "draw realistically". Draw from life, meaning use objects and people around you as subjects. Draw what you see, not what you think you see. Learn the foundations of anatomy and underlying form, specifically for humans (since that's what you draw, whether you want to admit it or not.)
    3. Repeat step 2 for a number of YEARS. Yes YEARS.
    4. Continue to post here and elsewhere for critiques, as well as taking numerous art classes for in person critiques.
    5. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

    I guarantee if you follow the above advice, or any of the advice most of the people after me give you, you will become a better artist. You will be able to move away from just "standing poses", you will be able to draw whatever you want as opposed to what you see in the mangas you buy. You will be able to draw stuff outside of tranformers/furry bull. No offense.

    However, if you just ignore everyone's advice and continue thinking you know better like so many others I've watched pass through here, you will continue to impress your friends and ONLY your friends with your art. Like I said, if you want to do that, be my guest. If you want to be taken seriously, I recommend the next thing you post be a referenced piece of art, done in pencil on paper, because that would be an enormous step to getting the education you need.

    10 years ago I was exactly where you are right now, and even after waking up and realizing where I was at, I'm still nowhere near my best. I still have a lot of learning to do. You have even more.

    Happy Trails.

    Pennyfreqs on
    You don't have to be wrong for me to be right.
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    There was a very similar thread just recently, and I feel like this and this pretty much say it best.

    Regardless, welcome to the PA:AC. I encourage you to stick around and hope it helps you out in some way.

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I have to agree with Penny, drawing anime based cartoons isn't the best way to start. However, it does seem like you spend quite a bit of your time drawing and working on your craft. That is a great thing and, even as you start working on drawing from life, don't forget that drawing is supposed to be fun (it wouldn't hurt to take breaks every so often from the more hardcore practice to have fun again and see the improvements you've made.

    Also, why you might think "this is my style, don't tell me how to draw because i'm drawing in a style" that doesn't mean you can't improve and make the style yours instead of basing yourstyle of your favorite artist. You make an impact by being original, not by copying someone else. The way to make it yours is to understand the human form and how to "abuse" it which does require a lot of effort to on your part.

    Hopefully we aren't discouraging you to draw more becuase that isn't our goal. Our goal is to see you improve.

    Good luck :)

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Haha, no discouraging going on at all guys. : ) Mars, there's actually a good reason that it reminded you of that thread... Sin is the friend I mentioned in the original post. 8-) I definitely won't be going into "well this is my style" though. *nod*
    I'll try to find something to reference and draw this coming week. Though it might take a week after that to scan it. *nod nod*

    SmokedToast on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    If you want to get some basic references (not for serious study, period) http://www.posemaniacs.com/ is a very good site. The reason why i say "not for serious study" is that, while it gives you a good idea of many muscles and their placement, it won't show you how they move properly as its just a 3D skin that has been posed. That said, its great for quick studies and getting used to the measurements of the body.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • PennyfreqsPennyfreqs Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Sin is the friend I mentioned in the original post.

    I saw this coming. Okay, this is a doubled-edged sword. On one hand, you have a readily available source of critiques almost all the time. On the other hand, the source of those critiques is innately bias. You both have to be very careful to be very brutally honest with each other.

    Examples of things that won't cut it:
    "That's cool, dude!"
    "Badass!"
    "I like it."
    "We should make a webcomic with that!"

    Things that will:
    "It's a step, but I think it would be better if..."
    "I like this, but I would like to see more of..."
    "This would be a lot better if you worked on..."

    Etc etc.

    Pennyfreqs on
    You don't have to be wrong for me to be right.
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I'm pretty sure that, if these two keep posting here, they'll get good critiques.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • PennyfreqsPennyfreqs Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    No doubt about that, but I'm concerned as far as the critiques they give each other. Had a dude I drew anime with back when I did that, same thing happened, we just reinforced each other's bad habits. I'm sure if they dedicate themselves though it shouldn't be a problem.

    Pennyfreqs on
    You don't have to be wrong for me to be right.
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying but, seeing as both of them will be getting good critisims from us (hopefully) they'll pick up on what makes for good critisms and good art. Even if they don't immediately get it, as long as they keep posting here we'll keep giving it to them.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Ahh, I will blast away. XD I've given Sin critique on her artwork before, since some of her older artwork had a lot of heavy inking which seemed to take away from the shape of things like hands. I should poke her into posting her attempt at a webcomic in her thread for critique sometime.

    SmokedToast on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    when I see "XD" I assume people have some type of Pokemon-sequel-exclusive turret's syndrome.

    Other than that, I get a Megamanime feel off your stuff. How old are you guys, if you don't mind me asking?

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Oh god how I hate anime, it really is the worst thing that ever happened to art. You seem like a nice guy/girl Smoked Toast, so I'm not going to lay into you, but please do consider taking a step away from anime for a while to pursue some other areas of art. Continuing the way you are is only going to reinforce the bad habits you have developed, you're going to have to unlearn what you have learned in a lot of areas.

    Mustang on
  • winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Mustang wrote: »
    Continuing the way you are is only going to reinforce the bad habits you have developed, you're going to have to unlearn what you have learned in a lot of areas.

    I agree with Mustang. This was and still is my problem. Even though i stopped drawing anime well over a year ago, my'anime' bad habbits are still present in my work. The sooner you move away, and start learning the real fundamentals the better. If/when you decide to return to anime, your work will be better just for the fact that you've given it a break.

    Crits -
    AsylumSketch.jpg
    Cheerleaders-1.jpg
    in regards to the above two images in the spoiler tag,
    I'm guessing that you havnt planned the cpomposition/form before you started rendering, which has caused you to run out of room for the legs. From expierience, i would always run out of room because i was guessing the form as i went. Breaking it up into simple lines/shapes will make sure you fit everything in frame. If this aint the case, my second guess is that you struggle with feet. The best thing is to throw yourself out there and just do it. I have that problem with hands.

    For some positive feedback, i do like the colour range in your drawings. Plus its cool to see that you're using traditional techniques.

    winter_combat_knight on
  • mullymully Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I will say something from experience.

    I used to draw like you, because everyone else I knew was doing it.

    The habits I learned from drawing like that, repeatedly, are things I've never quite been able to get rid of and I *hate* myself for ever falling into that niche.

    So I am saying -- don't fall into the "anime" niche, you will only hate yourself later when you realize it's influence is ruining everything you create.

    mully on
  • SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
    edited June 2009
    when I see "XD" I assume people have some type of Pokemon-sequel-exclusive turret's syndrome.

    Other than that, I get a Megamanime feel off your stuff. How old are you guys, if you don't mind me asking?
    Yeah, it's weird... I've actually been trying to get away from a Megaman feel to it but everyon sees it in my stuff. O_o; I'm 27 going on 28 myself.
    Mustang wrote: »
    Oh god how I hate anime, it really is the worst thing that ever happened to art. You seem like a nice guy/girl Smoked Toast, so I'm not going to lay into you, but please do consider taking a step away from anime for a while to pursue some other areas of art. Continuing the way you are is only going to reinforce the bad habits you have developed, you're going to have to unlearn what you have learned in a lot of areas.
    Alright, I'll definitely give it a try then. : ) I think it's the bad habits that made it harder to keep trying to draw realistically, cause the few attempts I did... it looked off. When I scan in whatever I draw from a reference, I'll probably post the last of the commissions too for crit. It's supposed to be the four characters posed off of a record cover... and it shows I couldn't imagine it well as straight as it's supposed to be. ^^;
    I agree with Mustang. This was and still is my problem. Even though i stopped drawing anime well over a year ago, my'anime' bad habbits are still present in my work. The sooner you move away, and start learning the real fundamentals the better. If/when you decide to return to anime, your work will be better just for the fact that you've given it a break.
    Crits -
    AsylumSketch.jpg
    Cheerleaders-1.jpg
    in regards to the above two images in the spoiler tag,
    I'm guessing that you havnt planned the cpomposition/form before you started rendering, which has caused you to run out of room for the legs. From expierience, i would always run out of room because i was guessing the form as i went. Breaking it up into simple lines/shapes will make sure you fit everything in frame. If this aint the case, my second guess is that you struggle with feet. The best thing is to throw yourself out there and just do it. I have that problem with hands.
    For some positive feedback, i do like the colour range in your drawings. Plus its cool to see that you're using traditional techniques.
    I think it's bit of both really. I was going to render the feet in both at one point... but I lost my confidence to be able to draw shoes without them being of a comical size or seeming flat and definitely just a drawing instead of being a representation of shoes.
    Thanks! I've always been more confident in using traditional techniques. I used to draw digitally with a mouse... but it's a lot hard to do it 'well' nowadays.
    mully wrote: »
    I will say something from experience.
    I used to draw like you, because everyone else I knew was doing it.
    The habits I learned from drawing like that, repeatedly, are things I've never quite been able to get rid of and I *hate* myself for ever falling into that niche.
    So I am saying -- don't fall into the "anime" niche, you will only hate yourself later when you realize it's influence is ruining everything you create.
    Will do!

    SmokedToast on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited June 2009
    mully wrote: »
    I will say something from experience.

    I used to draw like you, because everyone else I knew was doing it.

    The habits I learned from drawing like that, repeatedly, are things I've never quite been able to get rid of and I *hate* myself for ever falling into that niche.

    So I am saying -- don't fall into the "anime" niche, you will only hate yourself later when you realize it's influence is ruining everything you create.

    Everyone said my art was shitty when I first started because on day one all I did was anatomical studies and completely ignored that all the other little artsy kids drew with anime

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Ask and ye shall recieve. : ) I had some time near an accessible, though not awesome scanner and decided to draw some items that were on my relative's table.
    ReferencedArt.jpg

    SmokedToast on
  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Not to bad, though your jar is being led down because the construction from the top the bottom are not consistent. Here is a quick rough over, I've left the inside of the base alone, as you can expect some warping of the shapes as the glass often acts as a lense.

    jarv.png

    Mustang on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    To go along with what mustang said, the film case's lid is a little off kilter (the bottom most part of the lid isn't in line with the other side of the lid or the rest of film case which it seems like it should be [though, depending on the film case, it may have actually been that way, i'm going on the assumption that it wasn't])

    Also, You should try shading in your forms, it should help you do see the 3d-ness of them. There's also an exercise where you shade from pure black and get progressively lighter until its just a basic white color. This will help you identify the strength black/grey you need to lay down.

    it will look similar to the bar at the bottom of this picture Histogram02.jpg

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
    edited July 2009
    Nappuccino wrote: »
    To go along with what mustang said, the film case's lid is a little off kilter (the bottom most part of the lid isn't in line with the other side of the lid or the rest of film case which it seems like it should be [though, depending on the film case, it may have actually been that way, i'm going on the assumption that it wasn't])

    Also, You should try shading in your forms, it should help you do see the 3d-ness of them. There's also an exercise where you shade from pure black and get progressively lighter until its just a basic white color. This will help you identify the strength black/grey you need to lay down.

    it will look similar to the bar at the bottom of this picture Histogram02.jpg
    Thanks guys, I'll have to try that more in the next few pictures.
    Got a bunch of photo references to use this week, could use some crit on how the first few sketches went. Sorry about disappearing for like a month, dealing with unemployment mental crisises sucked the life out of me for a bit.
    http://py-primal.deviantart.com/art/Photo-Ref-ed-Art-1-MT-Bass-131557219
    http://py-primal.deviantart.com/art/Photo-Ref-ed-Art-2-MT-Bob-131557866

    SmokedToast on
  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    You're officially banned from drawing people with weapons and slutty clothing, do more like the second one.
    We're going to beat the anime out of you even if we have to kill someone.

    Also post your images at image shack (or something like it) and direct post here. People generally don't like clicking on links, sadists might, but we don't really care for their concerns.

    Mustang on
  • SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
    edited July 2009
    Mustang wrote: »
    You're officially banned from drawing people with weapons and slutty clothing, do more like the second one.
    We're going to beat the anime out of you even if we have to kill someone.

    Also post your images at image shack (or something like it) and direct post here. People generally don't like clicking on links, sadists might, but we don't really care for their concerns.

    Uh.. slutty clothing? I see that kind of apparel all the time down here in arizona, lol. But I see what you mean about the animish style to that one, especially around the face. I went back over the pic compared to the reference and realized how much I animed up the facial region. Went over it again with a pen and fixed up some of the problems, though I can only do so much.
    There will definitely be less of the slutty clothes though, the main reason why I went for that particular reference was in part because of the hints towards the other player in the design and the weapons. I think I've only got 3 other ones with weapons out of the 14 photo references I printed off, and none of the weapon ones are going to be used for a while.
    I guess too I wanted to see how much of a difference there'd be in my 'anime' work if I used a photo reference too. Lesson learned!
    I'll post the updates on it and the second tomorrow when I get near a scanner. Possibly another pic or two, depends how the day goes. Is there any other types of clothing I should stay away from in designs? *not being facious, just want to clarify what counts as 'anime' references*
    -Edit-
    Apologies for posting the links too. The stock photographers wanted to be noted when they're posted anywhere else, so I figured it was easier to link to the place where they already know they're at.

    SmokedToast on
  • winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    the second pic is good. nice construction witht the lines/shapes. keep it up. POST MORE!

    winter_combat_knight on
  • RobotJacksonRobotJackson Registered User
    edited August 2009
    A good source for photo reference is flickr. Just make sure you check the Creative Commons License button.
    The license gives you pretty much free reign with the photo, with a few limits.

    RobotJackson on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    If you're just using pictures to draw for your own practice, there should be no issues. Also, welcome aboard, fellow toast brother!

    MagicToaster on
  • SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
    edited August 2009
    If you're just using pictures to draw for your own practice, there should be no issues. Also, welcome aboard, fellow toast brother!
    Thanks fellow toast amigo!
    Well, since I'm going to edit the deviantart posts, here's the touched up versions of both pictures. I'm still not sure if the clothes is really anime so much, but I tried to touch up the face so it's less anime, along with trying to refind the shapes of the body for bob. Plus I added a sleeveless shirt.
    ImprovedDeeDee.jpg
    Did this part first.
    ImprovedBob.jpg
    Made these modifications at the suggestion of a friend.
    ImprovedBob2.jpg
    Further modifications.
    ImprovedBob3.jpg

    SmokedToast on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I'm not really seeing any difference in the line art itself. But, I am noticing a trend in the way you draw the bodies and heads in the same pose, same direction, same static action.

    This is an area of opportunity for you.

    MagicToaster on
  • SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
    edited August 2009
    I'm not really seeing any difference in the line art itself. But, I am noticing a trend in the way you draw the bodies and heads in the same pose, same direction, same static action.

    This is an area of opportunity for you.
    Oh! these weren't all new drawings in the same page, my bad toaster. ^^; they're tweaked versions of the same picture since a friend pointed out I had the muscular structure wrong in the upper arm and such. Like, there were actually too many muscles in the first one, then the second had the wrong muscle with the dominant curve.

    Here's some more drawings I've done in the last few days.
    Moshpit
    The photo reference was provided by BobbiStock over at this particular deviation.
    http://bobbistock.deviantart.com/art/male-fighter-1-109480706
    MoshPit2.jpg
    Another one for a friend, I'm still having trouble getting the face to look right. Went through 3 versions of it. x_x
    The photo reference was provided by Double-Crow-Stock over at this particular deviation.
    http://double-crow-stock.deviantart.com/art/DCS-1209-Manga-Girl-12-71916129 *And yes, I know it says manga girl, but the body shape was what the friend described for the character... and I didn't include the sword. used my own hands for reference of the new hand gestures as well...*
    Darlene3.jpg
    Should have one more once I get the ok of the poser.

    SmokedToast on
  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    You really need to start learning how to piece a figure together because you keep on dropping back into anime mode. I'd strongly suggest reading this thing that cakemiks posted a couple of weeks back.
    Figure Drawing

    You really really need to pay attention to what it is you're drawing and not just assume what is there. "Oh there's a nose, I know how to draw noses", and you very well know the shape of a nose, but you don't know how to draw "her" nose. You are just falling back on what you know, rather than trying to see what is there.

    Additionaly you need to start viewing the figure as a bunch of cyliders, cones and other 3 dimensional objects, and utilising construction lines. Drawing the figure in a near nude state before adding the clothing will also help immensely. Here is a quick sketch of your second ref, I have darkened and added additional construction lines to show you how generally a figure should be pieced together. Obviously it should be done better than this because I am only pretending to know what I'm talking about, but you get the idea.

    cat0001.jpg

    Read the link above and try to take it on board, it will help you more than you realise. It looks like stuffy ass bullshit, but it will be more help to you than all the "How to Draw Manga" books in the world....and possibly the unverse.....I don't know if people from other planets draw manga and quite frankly I don't want to know.

    E: Also, you don't need to get a stock photographers permission for practice stuff like this.

    Mustang on
  • SmokedToastSmokedToast Registered User
    edited September 2009
    Lossry about the long response guys. I'll look some more at that book later today Mustang, I did the first time you linked to it but when I tried to put to practice... didn't go so hot.
    Decided to try the Cylinder method again today with a pose I had in mind. Not sure how well it went but here's the rough draft so far. Haven't had a scanner to use in a long time and since getting my computer fixed my tablet started working too so I decided to give it a whirl. ^^; worked better at least for being able to mess with layers to lighten/erase/etc though.
    -edit-
    Working on drawing over it again for additional practice guys, try to fix it up... let me know if I'm screwing this one up compared to the 2nd redraw.
    CylinderTry.jpgCylinderTry2.jpg

    SmokedToast on
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