Beat it Isaac. I thought i told you never to come in here.
You're right about the composition. This is a trace of my old composition, done without proper reference. Hmmmm... back to the drawing board... literally
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
I think you would get a better result by planning out the shot with sum HARDCOER PERSPECTIVE. It would make the environment they're in feel a bit more real.
Hey WCK, have you ever read any of the Loomis books floating around? People always pitch his figure drawing book (which is great), but I think you'd benefit enormously if you took the time to sit down, read, and reread "Successful Drawing" and "Creative Illustration" (both of which are easy to find as pdf's). Those were the books that first opened my eyes to some really invaluable concepts in drawing, especially all the fascinating discussion on how to properly design the values of your image (in terms of range, composition and form).
Winter, I think it's a good drawing but there is a perspective problem. I would say that the distance between the men is 4-5 feet. That would mean that the man in the foreground has an arm that is 4-5 feet from elbow to fingerstips.
Hey WCK, have you ever read any of the Loomis books floating around?
Yeah man, i've downloaded all of the ones available. I was going through them loads throughout my summer holidays (december-feb) but havn't done them enough since. They helped a lot with just helping to kind of visualise things and break up the body. I'll definately have to go through them again (and again, and again,and again,and again etc )
Winter, I think it's a good drawing but there is a perspective problem. I would say that the distance between the men is 4-5 feet. That would mean that the man in the foreground has an arm that is 4-5 feet from elbow to fingerstips.
It does look that way. Man, wish i still had the original reference. the figures in the drawing where kind of right scale in comparison, but i think its all about the lighting that makes it believable. Something this still needs work on.
SOME UPDATES!!!
From my character project ive been neglecting for too long...
Working on these poses. theyre a bit stiff, but i think its more interesting than what i did have. I tried defining the hands more in these ones too, rather than snag fingers
And updates from my narrative project. redoing old comps in pencil
been working on these most of this week
I officially finish 16th November. It's a mad rush at the moment. Not only do i have loads of illustrations to finish, i have business graphic design documents and indigenous aussies theory essays to do. Cant wait till im done. Cos i'll have from mid november till beginning of February (When Tafe will start) to crack down and work on my drawing theory/fundamentals again.
Looking good Winter. I can see improvements in your work even though you haven't been able to go back and practice the fundamentals.
I reckon 3d will help you too, not just on a resume though but will help you see and visualise depth and perspective when drawing... I've noticed that my sketches tend to look like low poly models before I start adding details.
Check out cg textures and look for denim and sueade textures to add to your characters and distort the texture to follow the contours of the clothing. That should help bring out the characters a bit and separate the clothing from the skin.
I think it would benefit you greatly if you would go back and practice the funadmentals, even for just an hour. There are a lot of things in these latest batches that are clashing something fierce.
I'm not talking drawing hands or copying a skull. Just something simple like some quick gestures or box form studies would work wonders.
They're simple, quick, effective and practically a non-hassle. I don't really see a down side to it honestly.
Clearly 2,5 and 6 are best. I hope your not relying too much on the power of Kurt Russel to get a Distinction?
Number 5 wins out of those.. it may look better if email was a few spaces down at the bottom of the card perhaps.
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RankenphilePassersby were amazedby the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderatormod
edited September 2009
knight
I was looking at some of your recent drawings
you should vary the fingers a little on your hands, you'd get a much more dynamic look to them
instead of having them all together as a group or posed exactly the same, vary them slightly
they'll work better as a pose and give more life to your drawing then if you just clump them together
Clearly 2,5 and 6 are best. I hope your not relying too much on the power of Kurt Russel to get a Distinction?
Number 5 wins out of those.. it may look better if email was a few spaces down at the bottom of the card perhaps.
I agree 2,5,6 are the best, in terms of most interesting. But im not sure whether to go with 'less is more' on the other ones. I'm unsure whether the picture is throwing the design off. but then again, most real estate cards have photos on them. 5 is definately the best, regardless. HMMMM... tough business this 'graphic design' is.
Also, I noticed you picked each of the Kurt Russell cards as your favorite design concepts. I wonder if the power of Kurt Russell has influenced your opinion?:P
you should vary the fingers a little on your hands, you'd get a much more dynamic look to them
instead of having them all together as a group or posed exactly the same, vary them slightly
they'll work better as a pose and give more life to your drawing then if you just clump them together
Aye thanks dude. Yeah i'll go back over those last two characters ive beeen working on (chick and dude).
someone on conceptart.org suggested that i curve some of the lines on the side of the figure thats supposed to be where the weight is balanced. That helped make them look less 'stiff'. Maybe variation in fingers might add another subtle eleement and give them more life, like you suggested.
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MustangArbiter of Unpopular OpinionsRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
I vote 3 or 4.
Photos on business cards are naff, even if you are Jack Burton.
Basically finished this uni project. Its not due for another 5 weeks so i have plenty of time to tweak the layout. im not happy but at least this is out of the way. now i will have time to get back to fundamental studies.
In the first panel I was like 'what the hell kind of car ha s a split wind-......scroll... Oh okay.'
I think you have a nice set pf shots here, a good variety. I'm not sure rendered out pencil is the best route though. Ink drawings would be cool for this, with some light washes in greyscale.
Thanks! Inintially i was doing these digital, but realised very quickly it wasn't working. Water colour or ink washes would look cool, but i figure pencil was the safest option considering my current skill level.
If nothing else, I am impressed at the amount of work you put into it. This contributes to the fact that all of the drawings together are stronger than any of them individually under scrutiny. You have base values, a basic understanding of perspective, a fair amount of detail and ok to good backgrounds.
Biggest thing I think you need to work on is faces, hands, and general anatomy/posing. I'm... I'm sorry, but you seem incapable of drawing attractive people...
I agree with Radar about the faces. that's what I think every time I see your work.
you have a basic grasp of 3d space, but you're still applying 2d ways of thinking, especially when it comes to faces. you're relying on lines instead of on planes, and your mouths (especially when they're open) are very two-dimensional.
I'd say that you should work on rendering three-dimensional detail. perhaps draw one face from multiple angles, do a still life with focused rendering, rather than haphazard scribbles/hatching. I'm assuming that none of this is based on references.
also, from a layout perspective: justify your text. I'm assuming you're still going to do a lot with it because that amount of white space isn't really acceptable in publication layout.
[edit] Wow, I looked at your initials on page 22, and they are way more appealing to look at. your rendering style here is so soft and undefined, whereas before it was cool because the figures were more "cartoony"/stylized.
srsizzy on
BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
I'm... I'm sorry, but you seem incapable of drawing attractive people...
Within the entire piece, each of the images are very 'hit and miss'. I found some of the images, particularly the backgrounds very difficult. I suck at drawing interiors, so ive tried to avoid them as much as i can for this project. Cheers for the compliments/crits
also, from a layout perspective: justify your text. I'm assuming you're still going to do a lot with it because that amount of white space isn't really acceptable in publication layout.
Do you mean there is 'too much' white space? My tutor is wanting us to think of this project in terms of the design - less = more shit im guessing. So im actually going to have to cut out some text!
[edit] Wow, I looked at your initials on page 22, and they are way more appealing to look at. your rendering style here is so soft and undefined, whereas before it was cool because the figures were more "cartoony"/stylized.
Really? I wasnt happy with most of my originals. Though i did like the taxi driver image. I found the style hard to replicate which caused an inconsistant look. I think working in pencil kind of brings it together a bit more. I think its a more accurate representation of the stage im at in my drawing atm. Which clearly shows i need more practice.
SOME UPDATES ON THE LAYOUT. I found my indesign file was set up at the wrong scale, so it was printing A2 instead of A3
Re-arranged some of the images/type
Biggest thing I think you need to work on is faces, hands, and general anatomy/posing. I'm... I'm sorry, but you seem incapable of drawing attractive people...
I disagree. Not everyone in art needs to be a supermodel. I think the less-than-perfect people give it a grittier look.
I officially finish 16th November. It's a mad rush at the moment. Not only do i have loads of illustrations to finish, i have business graphic design documents and indigenous aussies theory essays to do. Cant wait till im done. Cos i'll have from mid november till beginning of February (When Tafe will start) to crack down and work on my drawing theory/fundamentals again.
I might agree with that sentiment if what you are producing and pouring your time into was going to help you get employed in any field youve shown interest in. but Im going to go as far as to say your time would be better spent half assing that bullshit and focusing on learning how to draw. Unless you want to get a job setting type and doing business cards. Right now that seems to be the path you are walking down and I did my own time in a print shop surrounded by incredibly miserable creatives. Your BFA or whatever they give you in Australia is more than likely just as usless as it is here in the US therefore no one gives a shit if you got an A in whatever class.
also, from a layout perspective: justify your text. I'm assuming you're still going to do a lot with it because that amount of white space isn't really acceptable in publication layout.
Do you mean there is 'too much' white space? My tutor is wanting us to think of this project in terms of the design - less = more shit im guessing. So im actually going to have to cut out some text!
No, the opposite is true. You should have as little white space as possible on a page, OR distribute your material in a manner in which the white space is not noticeable. For instance, if you have a poem which is short and thin, and that's ALL you have, the most ideal place to put it is in the center of the page, unless you're trying to make some kind of point. You don't have to center-justify, you can just shift the margins so that it sits in the middle of the page. If you have a shit load of text in a magazine format, you double-column justify, with minimal margins, and you throw images in the best place on the page (depending on the size of the image) with decent margins. Adobe InDesign makes it so when you put an image over a text box, it redistributes text around the image (I forget the term for this).
Your illustrations and text are haphazardly distributed. I don't know how to teach, so I don't know how to tell you how to do it right other than to just fix it for you, which I'm not going to do. Maybe pop into the Chat thread and ask Pennywise about it, he does a lot of graphic design sort of stuff. I've laid out magazines, but to me balanced design seems obvious, but there are probably books or reference materials to guide you in how things should be placed on a page. What you have now is not it.
If I were to hazard a guess: since you have so many huge images and so little text, you need a larger font, you need a taller line-spacing, and you need to generally distribute the text and images so that the pages are balanced. It's about balance, that's the entire point.
Biggest thing I think you need to work on is faces, hands, and general anatomy/posing. I'm... I'm sorry, but you seem incapable of drawing attractive people...
I disagree. Not everyone in art needs to be a supermodel. I think the less-than-perfect people give it a grittier look.
That isn't Radar's point. If you look at what I said about his drawing techniques, the faces are unattractive not because they're unattractive people, but because they're drawn poorly. The noses are wrong, the mouths tend to be two dimensional, the proportions are unattractive, and all-in-all the features are poorly rendered and rely too much on lines which are not appealing aesthetically.
Depictions of unattractive people can still be aesthetically drawn.
srsizzy on
BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
I officially finish 16th November. It's a mad rush at the moment. Not only do i have loads of illustrations to finish, i have business graphic design documents and indigenous aussies theory essays to do. Cant wait till im done. Cos i'll have from mid november till beginning of February (When Tafe will start) to crack down and work on my drawing theory/fundamentals again.
I'm sorry, but this isn't a good enough excuse.
You don't have, what, five? Ten minutes to sit down and practice the fundamentals?
The fundamentals aren't only about light and shade; you can still do a lot of things on your own that would help your work tremendously.
Ten minutes of box forms out of your head a day would do you worlds of good. Hell, even five would be extremely beneficial. Blind contours would help you establish line depth and thickness. How bout some quick fifteen minute compositions? I'm not talking elaborate cityscapes or flawless utopias, i'm talking more about compositions based around the things you did that day. You can do them during your lunch break or pull certain scenes straight out of your memory when you get home.
I mean, right now you're making the same mistakes over and over again. Is this what you really want?
All the greats give 120% above and beyond the call of duty. My buddies in class are swamped with homework day-in and day-out, and they still go out there to do the extra mile.
This is something that you really need to think about, because you don't have the luxury of having a terrific art teacher/staff on your every call, or a city/environment that will inspire you to get out there and draw.
It's all a state of mind my friend.
This is the last i'll say on this particular issue. Please give this some serious consideration!
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MustangArbiter of Unpopular OpinionsRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
You should've told them you have an extreme case of fundamentobia. They would've bought that.
Posts
You're right about the composition. This is a trace of my old composition, done without proper reference. Hmmmm... back to the drawing board... literally
Come on people. Little steps. He's heard this one before.
If you haven't read em... why not?
Yeah man, i've downloaded all of the ones available. I was going through them loads throughout my summer holidays (december-feb) but havn't done them enough since. They helped a lot with just helping to kind of visualise things and break up the body. I'll definately have to go through them again (and again, and again,and again,and again etc
It does look that way. Man, wish i still had the original reference. the figures in the drawing where kind of right scale in comparison, but i think its all about the lighting that makes it believable. Something this still needs work on.
SOME UPDATES!!!
From my character project ive been neglecting for too long...
Working on these poses. theyre a bit stiff, but i think its more interesting than what i did have. I tried defining the hands more in these ones too, rather than snag fingers
And updates from my narrative project. redoing old comps in pencil
been working on these most of this week
the gym bag and pose isnt too convincing in areas. recon ill photograph myself for reference on this one
and dude ive started tonight
I reckon 3d will help you too, not just on a resume though but will help you see and visualise depth and perspective when drawing... I've noticed that my sketches tend to look like low poly models before I start adding details.
Check out cg textures and look for denim and sueade textures to add to your characters and distort the texture to follow the contours of the clothing. That should help bring out the characters a bit and separate the clothing from the skin.
I'm not talking drawing hands or copying a skull. Just something simple like some quick gestures or box form studies would work wonders.
They're simple, quick, effective and practically a non-hassle. I don't really see a down side to it honestly.
Godfather - Man, i dont think ive even done any box/shape studies since my life drawing class (over two years ago!).
It's not something you can do once then shelf away.
Updates of doodle concepts for my desktop pub subject. These are quick. Which do you guys think are working the best?
Number 5 wins out of those.. it may look better if email was a few spaces down at the bottom of the card perhaps.
I was looking at some of your recent drawings
you should vary the fingers a little on your hands, you'd get a much more dynamic look to them
instead of having them all together as a group or posed exactly the same, vary them slightly
they'll work better as a pose and give more life to your drawing then if you just clump them together
I agree 2,5,6 are the best, in terms of most interesting. But im not sure whether to go with 'less is more' on the other ones. I'm unsure whether the picture is throwing the design off. but then again, most real estate cards have photos on them. 5 is definately the best, regardless. HMMMM... tough business this 'graphic design' is.
Also, I noticed you picked each of the Kurt Russell cards as your favorite design concepts. I wonder if the power of Kurt Russell has influenced your opinion?:P
Aye thanks dude. Yeah i'll go back over those last two characters ive beeen working on (chick and dude).
someone on conceptart.org suggested that i curve some of the lines on the side of the figure thats supposed to be where the weight is balanced. That helped make them look less 'stiff'. Maybe variation in fingers might add another subtle eleement and give them more life, like you suggested.
Photos on business cards are naff, even if you are Jack Burton.
In the first panel I was like 'what the hell kind of car ha s a split wind-......scroll... Oh okay.'
I think you have a nice set pf shots here, a good variety. I'm not sure rendered out pencil is the best route though. Ink drawings would be cool for this, with some light washes in greyscale.
Just my thoughts though.
Biggest thing I think you need to work on is faces, hands, and general anatomy/posing. I'm... I'm sorry, but you seem incapable of drawing attractive people...
you have a basic grasp of 3d space, but you're still applying 2d ways of thinking, especially when it comes to faces. you're relying on lines instead of on planes, and your mouths (especially when they're open) are very two-dimensional.
I'd say that you should work on rendering three-dimensional detail. perhaps draw one face from multiple angles, do a still life with focused rendering, rather than haphazard scribbles/hatching. I'm assuming that none of this is based on references.
also, from a layout perspective: justify your text. I'm assuming you're still going to do a lot with it because that amount of white space isn't really acceptable in publication layout.
[edit] Wow, I looked at your initials on page 22, and they are way more appealing to look at. your rendering style here is so soft and undefined, whereas before it was cool because the figures were more "cartoony"/stylized.
Within the entire piece, each of the images are very 'hit and miss'. I found some of the images, particularly the backgrounds very difficult. I suck at drawing interiors, so ive tried to avoid them as much as i can for this project. Cheers for the compliments/crits
Do you mean there is 'too much' white space? My tutor is wanting us to think of this project in terms of the design - less = more shit im guessing. So im actually going to have to cut out some text!
Really? I wasnt happy with most of my originals. Though i did like the taxi driver image. I found the style hard to replicate which caused an inconsistant look. I think working in pencil kind of brings it together a bit more. I think its a more accurate representation of the stage im at in my drawing atm. Which clearly shows i need more practice.
SOME UPDATES ON THE LAYOUT. I found my indesign file was set up at the wrong scale, so it was printing A2 instead of A3
Re-arranged some of the images/type
I disagree. Not everyone in art needs to be a supermodel. I think the less-than-perfect people give it a grittier look.
Your illustrations and text are haphazardly distributed. I don't know how to teach, so I don't know how to tell you how to do it right other than to just fix it for you, which I'm not going to do. Maybe pop into the Chat thread and ask Pennywise about it, he does a lot of graphic design sort of stuff. I've laid out magazines, but to me balanced design seems obvious, but there are probably books or reference materials to guide you in how things should be placed on a page. What you have now is not it.
If I were to hazard a guess: since you have so many huge images and so little text, you need a larger font, you need a taller line-spacing, and you need to generally distribute the text and images so that the pages are balanced. It's about balance, that's the entire point.
That isn't Radar's point. If you look at what I said about his drawing techniques, the faces are unattractive not because they're unattractive people, but because they're drawn poorly. The noses are wrong, the mouths tend to be two dimensional, the proportions are unattractive, and all-in-all the features are poorly rendered and rely too much on lines which are not appealing aesthetically.
Depictions of unattractive people can still be aesthetically drawn.
I'm sorry, but this isn't a good enough excuse.
You don't have, what, five? Ten minutes to sit down and practice the fundamentals?
The fundamentals aren't only about light and shade; you can still do a lot of things on your own that would help your work tremendously.
Ten minutes of box forms out of your head a day would do you worlds of good. Hell, even five would be extremely beneficial. Blind contours would help you establish line depth and thickness. How bout some quick fifteen minute compositions? I'm not talking elaborate cityscapes or flawless utopias, i'm talking more about compositions based around the things you did that day. You can do them during your lunch break or pull certain scenes straight out of your memory when you get home.
I mean, right now you're making the same mistakes over and over again. Is this what you really want?
All the greats give 120% above and beyond the call of duty. My buddies in class are swamped with homework day-in and day-out, and they still go out there to do the extra mile.
This is something that you really need to think about, because you don't have the luxury of having a terrific art teacher/staff on your every call, or a city/environment that will inspire you to get out there and draw.
It's all a state of mind my friend.
This is the last i'll say on this particular issue. Please give this some serious consideration!