Yeah, I'm trying to move away from the non-sequitors as I get into the characters, and make the humor more situational, and the art more interesting. Because you're right, this is strange enough as it is, and people need SOMETHING familiar to hold onto. And I'd like to incorporate a bit more meta humor, too.
Most importantly, I KNOW that I need to evolve this and continually seek out the better ideas, because I genuinely want to be making this comic in a year, two years, whatever. That's 150 strips a year at the current rate, and I need to be doing more than spinning my gears in order for that to happen.
You snuck in while I was replying there, multimoog.
Oh, I've played the forum-trolling game before. My cousin and I spent a few weeks one summer trolling Gamefaqs with over twenty accounts, straight-faced and dedicated the entire time. It was beautiful, but that shit takes WAY too much time, and honestly, I don't really get my jollies from pissing people off as much as I did, say, ten years ago. Or even five.
I don't think this thread deserves a hostile reaction at all. I know the type of humor this guy's going for, and he's being polite and is trying to get better. Don't expect him to change his whole premise because you don't like it.
edit: This vaguely reminds me of pokey the penguin, come to think of it. Have you ever read that before?
Food on
0
Options
kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
As an average consumer of art, I don't mind the graphics design, but the writing better be funny. This isn't. For a good example of static art with good writing, check out married to the sea.
I'd actually never read Pokey the Penguin before, but I looked it up. Absolutely random. I'd even say it's more random than a lot of my stuff. I got a chuckle out of some of them, though. But the sheer ugliness of it made it difficult for me to read for long.
edit: This vaguely reminds me of pokey the penguin, come to think of it. Have you ever read that before?
Pokey is awesome because the MSPaint style makes it seem like it's being done by an insane retard, which is funny in and of itself. This comic seems like it's someone self-consciously trying to be "whacky". Which, because of the added "h", is worse than just wacky.
This comic doesn't elicit any hostility from me, but:
What do you want out of this, exactly? We tell you the writing is derivative, unfunny and makes no sense, and you say "Oh, that's the way I want it." We tell you the art is flat and deeply uninteresting and you ... post more of exactly the same stuff.
The thing is (going from the quote here), "you" haven't said it was derivative and unfunny. "You" haven't said the art is flat and deeply uninteresting. A few people said some of those things individually, and all of a sudden it's a collective decision that I should just pack up my shit and go home, because I've been shut down?
I'm used to the internet. I'm not insulted if a few people tell me to fuck off and die because they feel like I'm a waste of space.
Pokey is insane, MSP-styled, and random. Mine is bright, colorful, and also pretty random. I'm not going to run away because half of AC hates it. The other half have been giving me some good feedback.
I know this shouldn't come from a guy calling himself UncleSporky, but the name Mr. Stinky could use some work in my opinion. Something more absurd or at least less cutesy-sounding. More blunt.
I think this comic shows too much effort to be taken seriously as absurdist humor. You're trying to hard on this formula. Kawaiinot linked earlier seems a better place to shoot for, expecially to produce something that others might enjoy. That includes more variation on characters and having something that might be considered a punchline.
The language and structure used isn't exactly common but it's not wacky enough that the words themselves sell it.
What you have is sort of like Mr. Bill without the violence.
MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
You have two characters. Now you need to make them work together.
You have one rational, intellectual character and one who's seemingly driven by his id. This is why your strip has the potential to be funny but it's not taking off. You need to start playing on that difference between those two characters in order to make funny happen. This is why the ketchup strip did so well, is because there was an actual exchange between those characters.
Someone said something about humor being like a frog in that you can dissect it, but it dies in the process. This is basically the curse of anyone who wants to get into the business of being funny: You have to constantly deconstruct jokes in order to see what makes them tick. I would suggest watching some monty python sketches and noting the exchanges between the rational and irrational characters in order to understand the elements of what makes absurdist humor funny.
You know, I looked over the complete run of strips just now, including the ones that haven't been posted yet, and I can see a definite shift away from the absolutely nonsensical punchlines, towards more concrete jokes. More topical, maybe even a little opinion snuck in here and there.
In retrospect, the salad and guitar strips were bad examples to post initially. I liked them because they were completely ridiculous, but especially in the case of the guitar one, there WAS no punchline. It was just an absurd situation. I did that a few times, but in the end it's not the formula I want to be wed to. I think I'd always like to have some absurd strips in the mix, but not ALL of them.
For example, this is strip 31. It won't run for almost a month.
And, for another example, I revised the current strip on the site (#20). The original comic was simply a joke about "realistic graphics" being brown. The final panel had the color returning, with nothing more. No dialog. But I wasn't happy with that, and now it's different:
This moves past absurdity into Garfield territory, which is a place you ought to shy away from.
I feel that only having two "characters" who don't ever have their look/expression change takes away a lot of possibility from the comic. Even if a moment should require a character to be angry or sad or give a fourth-wall-breaking glance at the audience, I know it will never happen because these characters don't change. I have no expectation. The main character may as well not be smiling with his arms up because he's so static, it's just how he is and I feel no emotion from him or for him.
I'm not attached to these characters in any way which is a crucial thing for a comic. I'm not anticipating the zany antics they'll be up to next time because I can't care for them.
EDIT: This new comic...you didn't have any text in the last panel before? I'm seeing a trend and that comes back to it being a very formulaic take on absurdity. A lack of text/explanation at the end is not a gimmick to be used every time. It gets old very quickly because we know what to expect, just as we can expect the characters to never look any different.
And then adding that text "Tim Buckley'd" the thing. Before, the only possible humor was that color was returned (which is no kind of humor at all) and now you've explained that color returned. And it's now a video game related comic.
Am I right in thinking that him saying brown is ugly, when Mr. Stinky himself is brown, is a completely unintended hint of real humor?
No, the joke WAS that Mr. Stinky is brown, and Flying Man just slammed him (and perhaps HE isn't aware of it). I had originally brought the color back and called it good, because I couldn't think of a better punchline. Then, I realized I had a chance to do something better, so I revised it.
And as for the Garfield thing...uh...yeah. But that picture of Jon with the painting beside him was hillarious.
And as for the Garfield thing...uh...yeah. But that picture of Jon with the painting beside him was hillarious.
It was, but not of its own accord. There is context that makes it funny.
Just because Jon with your broken painting by him is funny in this context, doesn't mean anybody with a broken painting next to them is funny.
I am saying your comic is similar to Garfield. You have Jon telling Garfield "don't eat my burger," and then the burger is gone and Jon has an annoyed look on his face. The cat eats things he shouldn't! How hilarious.
Mr. Stinky breaks things he shouldn't! He sure showed that other guy what he thinks of modern art! Hilarious.
I don't know what I would do with your comic. I think if I was going to move in this direction I would go for lewd/violent endings since even if it doesn't make sense you've got a semblance of shock value.
UncleSporky: *nods* Yeah, I'm aware - I found it humorous because of the juxtaposition between my own comic and the picture of Jon. I don't care for Garfield. And this isn't THE direction I'm taking the comic in - just an example of something different I did. Basically, I write a whole slew of scripts based on situations that I find amusing in at least SOME way. And based on the feedback I get, my future scripts start to lean in different directions.
Sometimes, even I don't think a strip worked. That's why I revised the "brown" one. The fact that you thought the joke I was going for was an unintentional one actually kind of makes me smile - because the character was supposed to be uttering it unintentionally.
But seriously, this critique is insanely valuable. I might not be revising the comic to please everyone in AC, but it's helping me see weaknesses in the execution that I can fix while still staying true to what I want to do.
And I will say, I'm working up the confidence to do some disconcerting, possibly even mildly disturbing things with the strip in the future. I wanted to lay down a consistent look, feel, and "flavor" before I did anything too strange. I mean, this is all strange enough as it is. Mr. Stinky's "note" was maybe the first indication that at least one of the characters isn't all smiles. And he does seem to have some violent tenancies - that much I want to play with more in the future.
This moves past absurdity into Garfield territory, which is a place you ought to shy away from.
I feel that only having two "characters" who don't ever have their look/expression change takes away a lot of possibility from the comic. Even if a moment should require a character to be angry or sad or give a fourth-wall-breaking glance at the audience, I know it will never happen because these characters don't change. I have no expectation. The main character may as well not be smiling with his arms up because he's so static, it's just how he is and I feel no emotion from him or for him.
I'm not attached to these characters in any way which is a crucial thing for a comic. I'm not anticipating the zany antics they'll be up to next time because I can't care for them.
EDIT: This new comic...you didn't have any text in the last panel before? I'm seeing a trend and that comes back to it being a very formulaic take on absurdity. A lack of text/explanation at the end is not a gimmick to be used every time. It gets old very quickly because we know what to expect, just as we can expect the characters to never look any different.
And then adding that text "Tim Buckley'd" the thing. Before, the only possible humor was that color was returned (which is no kind of humor at all) and now you've explained that color returned. And it's now a video game related comic.
Am I right in thinking that him saying brown is ugly, when Mr. Stinky himself is brown, is a completely unintended hint of real humor?
If you take all of garfield's speech bubbles out, so it's just Jon talking, it's actually pretty funny.
I don't even know where that one came from. When I was writing my first five strips, I just thought "one of them needs to be about a ketchup party." And I left it at that. When I got around to making the art, I decided I needed to draw the bottle instead of cheating and using a photo. That sort of set the stage for future "props." And I keep on bringing back the ketchup, because I kind of like it.
I laughed when he started to float away, although I later punished myself for doing so . It's weird and quirky and I would recommend having a little more weird and quirky art to go along with it......?
Mctittles on
I see what you did there last summer.
0
Options
MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
"This is modern art. You have to experience it" is fertile ground for absurdity. Redo your strip and change only the last panel to something absurd.
It's difficult, because the "Mr. Stinky does not care for modern art" joke is pretty Garfield-esque, but in keeping with the characters, I really couldn't see any other way to end it. I know that isn't a joke I'll pull very often, if ever again.
...Metalbourne, what sort of absurdity would you personally have chosen in this situation?
Interesting. I'll have to think about that some - I'm not sure exactly how patently surreal I want to go. It's certainly something to think about.
I wanted to post another example, to show the art shift (the blurry sun and PS clouds are gone). I'm much happier with the art after making those two changes. I don't know why I hadn't done that before. I think I just got stuck in a rut with the old sky and forgot it could be modified.
Hmm...the "sitting inside the painting" option is interesting. I hadn't expected anyone to suggest that, because it's the obvious conclusion - but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. That's a concept I kind of want to port to a different script, now, to see how it translates.
And no sex or acid trips in this comic, at least as far as I can tell.
Interesting. Would be worth reading if it were visually more engaging. Having static copy-paste characters really has no excuse. None. I don't care if it's making any kind of point. It's boring. And you won't gain any artistic talent from moving and resizing two objects over and over again. Your "camera angles" are ridiculous, the "characters" just end up flying around in space for no reason.
Also, I dislike your font and your speech bubbles. They look unprofessional in contrast to all other comics I read. It might just be me and my eyes hurting anyways, but everything about this strip hurts my eyes more.
srsizzy on
BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
I ran a search on that, and I came up with Borat and the Phantom Tollbooth. I'm going to go with...Borat? It's been a long time since I saw that. I do remember the "not" joke part, but not enough of it to know if there was talk of a suit in it.
Ah, gotcha. I'd forgotten that part. Actually, the only things I really remembered from Borat were that godawful naked chase scene and the part where he almost got killed by the rednecks at the rodeo.
Posts
That's the beauty! It's like an Andy Kaufman routine. Your straight face during the proceedings tells me everything I need to know.
Most importantly, I KNOW that I need to evolve this and continually seek out the better ideas, because I genuinely want to be making this comic in a year, two years, whatever. That's 150 strips a year at the current rate, and I need to be doing more than spinning my gears in order for that to happen.
Oh, I've played the forum-trolling game before. My cousin and I spent a few weeks one summer trolling Gamefaqs with over twenty accounts, straight-faced and dedicated the entire time. It was beautiful, but that shit takes WAY too much time, and honestly, I don't really get my jollies from pissing people off as much as I did, say, ten years ago. Or even five.
edit: This vaguely reminds me of pokey the penguin, come to think of it. Have you ever read that before?
Pokey is awesome because the MSPaint style makes it seem like it's being done by an insane retard, which is funny in and of itself. This comic seems like it's someone self-consciously trying to be "whacky". Which, because of the added "h", is worse than just wacky.
This comic doesn't elicit any hostility from me, but:
is true.
I'm used to the internet. I'm not insulted if a few people tell me to fuck off and die because they feel like I'm a waste of space.
Pokey is insane, MSP-styled, and random. Mine is bright, colorful, and also pretty random. I'm not going to run away because half of AC hates it. The other half have been giving me some good feedback.
It's working.
I think this comic shows too much effort to be taken seriously as absurdist humor. You're trying to hard on this formula. Kawaiinot linked earlier seems a better place to shoot for, expecially to produce something that others might enjoy. That includes more variation on characters and having something that might be considered a punchline.
The language and structure used isn't exactly common but it's not wacky enough that the words themselves sell it.
What you have is sort of like Mr. Bill without the violence.
You have one rational, intellectual character and one who's seemingly driven by his id. This is why your strip has the potential to be funny but it's not taking off. You need to start playing on that difference between those two characters in order to make funny happen. This is why the ketchup strip did so well, is because there was an actual exchange between those characters.
Someone said something about humor being like a frog in that you can dissect it, but it dies in the process. This is basically the curse of anyone who wants to get into the business of being funny: You have to constantly deconstruct jokes in order to see what makes them tick. I would suggest watching some monty python sketches and noting the exchanges between the rational and irrational characters in order to understand the elements of what makes absurdist humor funny.
You know, I looked over the complete run of strips just now, including the ones that haven't been posted yet, and I can see a definite shift away from the absolutely nonsensical punchlines, towards more concrete jokes. More topical, maybe even a little opinion snuck in here and there.
In retrospect, the salad and guitar strips were bad examples to post initially. I liked them because they were completely ridiculous, but especially in the case of the guitar one, there WAS no punchline. It was just an absurd situation. I did that a few times, but in the end it's not the formula I want to be wed to. I think I'd always like to have some absurd strips in the mix, but not ALL of them.
For example, this is strip 31. It won't run for almost a month.
I feel that only having two "characters" who don't ever have their look/expression change takes away a lot of possibility from the comic. Even if a moment should require a character to be angry or sad or give a fourth-wall-breaking glance at the audience, I know it will never happen because these characters don't change. I have no expectation. The main character may as well not be smiling with his arms up because he's so static, it's just how he is and I feel no emotion from him or for him.
I'm not attached to these characters in any way which is a crucial thing for a comic. I'm not anticipating the zany antics they'll be up to next time because I can't care for them.
EDIT: This new comic...you didn't have any text in the last panel before? I'm seeing a trend and that comes back to it being a very formulaic take on absurdity. A lack of text/explanation at the end is not a gimmick to be used every time. It gets old very quickly because we know what to expect, just as we can expect the characters to never look any different.
And then adding that text "Tim Buckley'd" the thing. Before, the only possible humor was that color was returned (which is no kind of humor at all) and now you've explained that color returned. And it's now a video game related comic.
Am I right in thinking that him saying brown is ugly, when Mr. Stinky himself is brown, is a completely unintended hint of real humor?
And as for the Garfield thing...uh...yeah. But that picture of Jon with the painting beside him was hillarious.
Just because Jon with your broken painting by him is funny in this context, doesn't mean anybody with a broken painting next to them is funny.
I am saying your comic is similar to Garfield. You have Jon telling Garfield "don't eat my burger," and then the burger is gone and Jon has an annoyed look on his face. The cat eats things he shouldn't! How hilarious.
Mr. Stinky breaks things he shouldn't! He sure showed that other guy what he thinks of modern art! Hilarious.
I don't know what I would do with your comic. I think if I was going to move in this direction I would go for lewd/violent endings since even if it doesn't make sense you've got a semblance of shock value.
Sometimes, even I don't think a strip worked. That's why I revised the "brown" one. The fact that you thought the joke I was going for was an unintentional one actually kind of makes me smile - because the character was supposed to be uttering it unintentionally.
But seriously, this critique is insanely valuable. I might not be revising the comic to please everyone in AC, but it's helping me see weaknesses in the execution that I can fix while still staying true to what I want to do.
If you take all of garfield's speech bubbles out, so it's just Jon talking, it's actually pretty funny.
...Metalbourne, what sort of absurdity would you personally have chosen in this situation?
a swarm of winged paintings chase them both from their house
the smiley guy corners mister stinky while rubbing the painting on his body and chanting "experience it"
Alternately, your panel 1 can be removed, panels 2 and 3 are kept, and the new 3 and 4 are the winged painting ideas.
I think a final panel with the two characters simply sitting inside the painting with no dialogue would be best.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
I wanted to post another example, to show the art shift (the blurry sun and PS clouds are gone). I'm much happier with the art after making those two changes. I don't know why I hadn't done that before. I think I just got stuck in a rut with the old sky and forgot it could be modified.
Also, a little lampshade-hanging:
And no sex or acid trips in this comic, at least as far as I can tell.
Also, I dislike your font and your speech bubbles. They look unprofessional in contrast to all other comics I read. It might just be me and my eyes hurting anyways, but everything about this strip hurts my eyes more.
http://kvitella.carbonmade.com
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=91454
And yogurt, I have no idea what that means. Or even if it was directed at me.
...
...
...
"No, see, you...""NOT!"