Call me an elitist if you have to, but somehow I get the feeling a lot of the poorer conservative populists aren't being driven by their unfailing devotion to the free market. In fact a lot of Glenn Beck's rhetoric is thoroughly anti-corporation.
Edit: I am aware that the bailouts weren't exactly a stunning example of the free market in action. But since "free market" really ends up meaning "monopolies and corporatism" I don't see why that would be a problem here.
I would just chalk that up to another example of
"people don't believe or understand many of the things they say."
Edit: another way of putting it is that we evolved from primates whose main advantage was their ability to mimic observed behavior. Thus, a primate is well-adapted to doing, or saying, the same thing a "leader" primate does or says without needing to internalize or understand the significance of the behavior he or she is mimicking.
You can't see it without looking at the code, but I actually limed that a second time.
Socialism, IMO, is a code for "not one of us," which may or may not also mean "black" depending on the person. As several people have pointed out, to many in the Republican base GOP-brand Free Market Capitalism(TM) has taken on the weight of religion. "Socialist" nowadays practically means "unbeliever."
Call me an elitist if you have to, but somehow I get the feeling a lot of the poorer conservative populists aren't being driven by their unfailing devotion to the free market. In fact a lot of Glenn Beck's rhetoric is thoroughly anti-corporation.
I agree, but the thing is when you have a religious-like belief in something it doesn't seem like it has to be internally consistent. Glenn Beck can be pro-corporate in one sentence and anti-corporate in the next, and still rouse the rabble.
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
Call me an elitist if you have to, but somehow I get the feeling a lot of the poorer conservative populists aren't being driven by their unfailing devotion to the free market. In fact a lot of Glenn Beck's rhetoric is thoroughly anti-corporation.
Edit: I am aware that the bailouts weren't exactly a stunning example of the free market in action. But since "free market" really ends up meaning "monopolies and corporatism" I don't see why that would be a problem here.
I would just chalk that up to another example of
"people don't believe or understand many of the things they say."
Well, clearly. This applies to pretty much every populist movement in American history, possibly world history.
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
You can't see it without looking at the code, but I actually limed that a second time.
Socialism, IMO, is a code for "not one of us," which may or may not also mean "black" depending on the person. As several people have pointed out, to many in the Republican base GOP-brand Free Market Capitalism(TM) has taken on the weight of religion. "Socialist" nowadays practically means "unbeliever."
Call me an elitist if you have to, but somehow I get the feeling a lot of the poorer conservative populists aren't being driven by their unfailing devotion to the free market. In fact a lot of Glenn Beck's rhetoric is thoroughly anti-corporation.
I agree, but the thing is when you have a religious-like belief in something it doesn't seem like it has to be internally consistent. Glenn Beck can be pro-corporate in one sentence and anti-corporate in the next, and still rouse the rabble.
He is just anti-Liberal-Government. Republican Government gets a relative pass unless he is trying to build "independent" credibility. Corporations are awful when they are aligned with the Liberal Government, but they are poor victims or brave dissenters when they are opposed to the Liberal Government. There's really not much more to it than that.
It's less about these people being racist than it is about them seeing the decline of the social priviledge they've always enjoyed. They don't hate brown people necessarily, but they really enjoyed taking advantage of a social system that gave them various advantages over brown people. Never having considered solidarity with minorities in a classist sense, they're now very threatened by the idea that white priviledge is being brought to an end by demographics.
Having a black president is just the most recent, most obvious evidence of this, so it isn't that hard to see why people react this way to it.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Yeah, I've seen plenty of code-words used for Black in the last year or so. Socialist was not one of them. That's own, separate, irrational fear.
No, I think it goes back to Reconstruction. The powerful central government and it's high tax programs allying itself with blacks against the local white power structure.
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
Yeah, I've seen plenty of code-words used for Black in the last year or so. Socialist was not one of them. That's own, separate, irrational fear.
No, I think it goes back to Reconstruction. The powerful central government and it's high tax programs allying itself with blacks against the local white power structure.
It is amazing to what degree the South - and by transitivity the modern Republican party - still sees themselves as a conquered people trying to get even with the power that dealt them low.
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
It's less about these people being racist than it is about them seeing the decline of the social priviledge they've always enjoyed. They don't hate brown people necessarily, but they really enjoyed taking advantage of a social system that gave them various advantages over brown people. Never having considered solidarity with minorities in a classist sense, they're now very threatened by the idea that white priviledge is being brought to an end by demographics.
Having a black president is just the most recent, most obvious evidence of this, so it isn't that hard to see why people react this way to it.
Dyscord gets it in one.
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
It's less about these people being racist than it is about them seeing the decline of the social priviledge they've always enjoyed. They don't hate brown people necessarily, but they really enjoyed taking advantage of a social system that gave them various advantages over brown people. Never having considered solidarity with minorities in a classist sense, they're now very threatened by the idea that white priviledge is being brought to an end by demographics.
Having a black president is just the most recent, most obvious evidence of this, so it isn't that hard to see why people react this way to it.
Dyscord gets it in one.
I don't think that most are aware of the white priviledge they have grown up with or enjoyed. I think that, like most conservatives, they have convinced themselves that whatever good things they enjoy they have earned and whatever bad things they face have been inflicted upon them (generally by Liberals or Yankees).
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
It's less about these people being racist than it is about them seeing the decline of the social priviledge they've always enjoyed. They don't hate brown people necessarily, but they really enjoyed taking advantage of a social system that gave them various advantages over brown people. Never having considered solidarity with minorities in a classist sense, they're now very threatened by the idea that white priviledge is being brought to an end by demographics.
Having a black president is just the most recent, most obvious evidence of this, so it isn't that hard to see why people react this way to it.
Dyscord gets it in one.
I don't think that most are aware of the white priviledge they have grown up with or enjoyed. I think that, like most conservatives, they have convinced themselves that whatever good things they enjoy they have earned and whatever bad things they face have been inflicted upon them (generally by Liberals or Yankees).
I don't think most of their feelings are subject to precise articulation.
Yeah, I've seen plenty of code-words used for Black in the last year or so. Socialist was not one of them. That's own, separate, irrational fear.
No, I think it goes back to Reconstruction. The powerful central government and it's high tax programs allying itself with blacks against the local white power structure.
It is amazing to what degree the South - and by transitivity the modern Republican party - still sees themselves as a conquered people trying to get even with the power that dealt them low.
It's less about these people being racist than it is about them seeing the decline of the social priviledge they've always enjoyed. They don't hate brown people necessarily, but they really enjoyed taking advantage of a social system that gave them various advantages over brown people. Never having considered solidarity with minorities in a classist sense, they're now very threatened by the idea that white priviledge is being brought to an end by demographics.
Having a black president is just the most recent, most obvious evidence of this, so it isn't that hard to see why people react this way to it.
Dyscord gets it in one.
I don't think that most are aware of the white priviledge they have grown up with or enjoyed. I think that, like most conservatives, they have convinced themselves that whatever good things they enjoy they have earned and whatever bad things they face have been inflicted upon them (generally by Liberals or Yankees).
Well, sure. This is the reason we see language like "they're taking our country away" and so on, because these people have never thought far enough outside their comfort zone to realize that "their america" was built on and still exists partially because of exploitation of racial minorities, or admitted to themselves what the consequences of that should be.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Yeah, I've seen plenty of code-words used for Black in the last year or so. Socialist was not one of them. That's own, separate, irrational fear.
No, I think it goes back to Reconstruction. The powerful central government and it's high tax programs allying itself with blacks against the local white power structure.
It is amazing to what degree the South - and by transitivity the modern Republican party - still sees themselves as a conquered people trying to get even with the power that dealt them low.
All nations have their ghosts.
yeah, some nations confront them, and some nations have political parties running on the pro-ghost platform
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
It's less about these people being racist than it is about them seeing the decline of the social priviledge they've always enjoyed. They don't hate brown people necessarily, but they really enjoyed taking advantage of a social system that gave them various advantages over brown people. Never having considered solidarity with minorities in a classist sense, they're now very threatened by the idea that white priviledge is being brought to an end by demographics.
Having a black president is just the most recent, most obvious evidence of this, so it isn't that hard to see why people react this way to it.
Dyscord gets it in one.
I don't think that most are aware of the white priviledge they have grown up with or enjoyed. I think that, like most conservatives, they have convinced themselves that whatever good things they enjoy they have earned and whatever bad things they face have been inflicted upon them (generally by Liberals or Yankees).
The only time I actually see people use some kind of damnyankees argument it's always intended ironically. Liberal is vastly more prevalent, though I suppose that one could argue that it's a dogwhistle for yankee.
It's less about these people being racist than it is about them seeing the decline of the social priviledge they've always enjoyed. They don't hate brown people necessarily, but they really enjoyed taking advantage of a social system that gave them various advantages over brown people. Never having considered solidarity with minorities in a classist sense, they're now very threatened by the idea that white priviledge is being brought to an end by demographics.
Having a black president is just the most recent, most obvious evidence of this, so it isn't that hard to see why people react this way to it.
Dyscord, you deserve a beer for this one. Awesome post!
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
It's less about these people being racist than it is about them seeing the decline of the social priviledge they've always enjoyed. They don't hate brown people necessarily, but they really enjoyed taking advantage of a social system that gave them various advantages over brown people. Never having considered solidarity with minorities in a classist sense, they're now very threatened by the idea that white priviledge is being brought to an end by demographics.
Having a black president is just the most recent, most obvious evidence of this, so it isn't that hard to see why people react this way to it.
Dyscord gets it in one.
I don't think that most are aware of the white priviledge they have grown up with or enjoyed. I think that, like most conservatives, they have convinced themselves that whatever good things they enjoy they have earned and whatever bad things they face have been inflicted upon them (generally by Liberals or Yankees).
The only time I actually see people use some kind of damnyankees argument it's always intended ironically. Liberal is vastly more prevalent, though I suppose that one could argue that it's a dogwhistle for yankee.
My Southern relatives generally use "elitists" or "liberals" or sometimes "Northerners". I always just take it as an updated "yankee," like you said. I don't even think that "Yankee" is offensive so much as it sounds kind of dated and olde-timie.
Yeah, I've seen plenty of code-words used for Black in the last year or so. Socialist was not one of them. That's own, separate, irrational fear.
No, I think it goes back to Reconstruction. The powerful central government and it's high tax programs allying itself with blacks against the local white power structure.
It is amazing to what degree the South - and by transitivity the modern Republican party - still sees themselves as a conquered people trying to get even with the power that dealt them low.
All nations have their ghosts.
yeah, some nations confront them, and some nations have political parties running on the pro-ghost platform
I'd argue that the US actually does a considerably better job confronting them than most other nations.
Ever hear of the modern day "culture crisis" in Europe?
Also, as much controversy as it's caused, we still do have affirmative action in this country. We also still openly encourage integration and have an overreaching trend of tolerance messages in our mainstream media culture (just watch commercials).
I think the thread title is misleading - a person with a conservative mindset wouldn't identify with the now dominant Beck-phalanx of the GOP
Exactly. We're mostly rational people with ideas that are, at the least, worth bringing to the table and having a discussion about.
Except that there are maybe a handful of politicians on the Federal level who actually represent our views.
So we vote Democrat, because they actually seem to have a plan. At least, more of a plan than yelling really loudly.
Oh, and voting for rape. I don't like people who vote for rape.
Exactly. What kind of conservative would make laws lax for military contractors representing America abroad, at the expense of the individual? What kind of conservative would give the government the power to collect private information in order to make society more biblical? Conservatism doesn't see the old as good by default - if the now works then taking a step back or moving forward requires more analysis and justification to a conservative. What the GOP is now is either regressive or careless - it is anathema to conservatism.
I think unitedshoes is probably not actually racist, but he soaks up a lot of rhetoric from people who run in those circles. E.g., I can imagine Hannity (or cyber-Hannity) whining about CRA and states' rights, and he picks it up from there without knowing the subtext.
To tie that back onto the topic, I think that "Socialist!" is the new word for "black", like "liberal" was for "Jew".
OK, so obviously most of my posts were not read. I dislike the Republicans as much as i do the Democrats, both are corrupt and self serving. I did not vote for either in the last election, on all levels of government. Also I cannot stand Hannity, or Limbaugh, or Beck. These men are entertains and promote only operational thinking, much like the dribble i get in emails from Democrat party and from moveon.org. I am sorry but the 2 parties are jokes, are not representative of the people, and care for little more than their own personal and agenda advancements. And I did not realize that Socialism, an economic theory of society, had anything to do with the amount of melatonin in anyone's skin...
unitedshoes86 on
"It’s about those moments when you can feel the perfection of creation, the beauty of physics, the wonder of mathematics, you know?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well in Europe at least there are a few smaller racist - socialist parties, that might well reject the internationalist/colour blind side of socialism but embrace the social or economic platforms of socialist parties. I think we used to call that integralism at college. Anyway, other words, state provided houses, schools, jobs and healthcare for white people only
It is amazing to what degree the South - and by transitivity the modern Republican party - still sees themselves as a conquered people trying to get even with the power that dealt them low.
To some extent, they really were a conquered people. They had every right as self governing states to leave the Union if they felt the Federal Government didn't meet the needs of the people.
I always try and bring this discussion up if I'm working with students in or around any Civil War sections in class. It's interesting to see what they think of states rights versus federal powers and the idea of a government existing only because of the consent of the governed.
It is amazing to what degree the South - and by transitivity the modern Republican party - still sees themselves as a conquered people trying to get even with the power that dealt them low.
To some extent, they really were a conquered people. They had every right as self governing states to leave the Union if they felt the Federal Government didn't meet the needs of the people.
So I'm not sure if you guys got this yet, but the RNC released their Census questionnaire to get a good idea of what their supporters believe in, found here.
I've got to be honest... I don't understand what the point of this survey was. They can't claim they're learning anything about their constituents because with questions that loaded you're clearly just trying to get a parroted response rather than utilize a bottom-up method of re-organizing one's party.
And they can't release the findings of this survey and imply that it means anything either. First, because it's self-selected Republicans answering it, and second, more importantly, because the questions are laughably loaded.
So uh... what's the point? Who spent time making this and plans to analyze it for some worthwhile purpose?
So uh... what's the point? Who spent time making this and plans to analyze it for some worthwhile purpose?
Obviously people with too much time. They are just desperately seeking to find out what it is they need to say to be elected. So afterward they can throw it all aside.
unitedshoes86 on
"It’s about those moments when you can feel the perfection of creation, the beauty of physics, the wonder of mathematics, you know?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So I'm not sure if you guys got this yet, but the RNC released their Census questionnaire to get a good idea of what their supporters believe in, found here.
I've got to be honest... I don't understand what the point of this survey was. They can't claim they're learning anything about their constituents because with questions that loaded you're clearly just trying to get a parroted response rather than utilize a bottom-up method of re-organizing one's party.
And they can't release the findings of this survey and imply that it means anything either. First, because it's self-selected Republicans answering it, and second, more importantly, because the questions are laughably loaded.
So uh... what's the point? Who spent time making this and plans to analyze it for some worthwhile purpose?
My favourite question is
Should we resist Barack Obama’s proposal to spend billions of federal taxpayer dollars to pay “volunteers” to perform his chosen tasks?
"His chosen tasks", what's that even meant to mean?
This isn't a survey. It's a fundraising push in disguise. People are supposed to read these questions, get mad that this stuff is happening, and send them money to change it.
This isn't a survey. It's a fundraising push in disguise. People are supposed to read these questions, get mad that this stuff is happening, and send them money to change it.
And it'll give the Republicans something to cite when they say that around 95% of their constituents support whatever it is they want to do.
Unless it ends up being mainly filled in by liberals saying "no" to everything.
This isn't a survey. It's a fundraising push in disguise. People are supposed to read these questions, get mad that this stuff is happening, and send them money to change it.
Dammit all, I'm never voting Republican again if that survey is real.
This isn't a survey. It's a fundraising push in disguise. People are supposed to read these questions, get mad that this stuff is happening, and send them money to change it.
Dammit all, I'm never voting Republican again if that survey is real.
Wait, is it real? I'd assumed it was hosted on GOP.com, but it isn't.
This isn't a survey. It's a fundraising push in disguise. People are supposed to read these questions, get mad that this stuff is happening, and send them money to change it.
Dammit all, I'm never voting Republican again if that survey is real.
Wait, is it real? I'd assumed it was hosted on GOP.com, but it isn't.
Another tell-tale sign is a lack of a virtual Michael Steele on my screen. :P
5. Do you oppose the Obama National Energy Tax, also known as “cap and trade,” which would skyrocket your utility bills and destroy jobs while having virtually no impact on the environment?
I love this shit.
5. Should we do everything we can to stop Democrats from using the so-called “fairness doctrine” to shut down conservative talk radio shows?
AHAHAHAHAHA
4. Should we unite in support of full funding for border and port security when Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid try to make cuts in these areas?
AHAHAHAHA
5. Are you in favor of a space-based defense system to protect America from intercontinental ballistic missiles?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
5. Even though Barack Obama pledged to meet personally with the likes of Raul Castro, Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, should Republicans continue to focus on supporting democratic movements in oppressive states like Cuba, Venezuela and Iran?
Despite Chavez's best efforts, Venezuela is still a democracy.
Also, the form apparently doesn't check for any false information so it accepted my answers from Penis.
well some of those questions do have some legit basis, such as the cap and trade. Check out the European version that was implemented and the ensuing results.
unitedshoes86 on
"It’s about those moments when you can feel the perfection of creation, the beauty of physics, the wonder of mathematics, you know?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
well some of those questions do have some legit basis, such as the cap and trade. Check out the European version that was implemented and the ensuing results.
The problem isn't so much the topics as how ridiculously loaded they are.
It really shows there's no genuine impetuous towards reforming the party or changing its direction. At least, not by this survey.
Posts
"people don't believe or understand many of the things they say."
Edit: another way of putting it is that we evolved from primates whose main advantage was their ability to mimic observed behavior. Thus, a primate is well-adapted to doing, or saying, the same thing a "leader" primate does or says without needing to internalize or understand the significance of the behavior he or she is mimicking.
I agree, but the thing is when you have a religious-like belief in something it doesn't seem like it has to be internally consistent. Glenn Beck can be pro-corporate in one sentence and anti-corporate in the next, and still rouse the rabble.
Well, clearly. This applies to pretty much every populist movement in American history, possibly world history.
He is just anti-Liberal-Government. Republican Government gets a relative pass unless he is trying to build "independent" credibility. Corporations are awful when they are aligned with the Liberal Government, but they are poor victims or brave dissenters when they are opposed to the Liberal Government. There's really not much more to it than that.
Having a black president is just the most recent, most obvious evidence of this, so it isn't that hard to see why people react this way to it.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
No, I think it goes back to Reconstruction. The powerful central government and it's high tax programs allying itself with blacks against the local white power structure.
It is amazing to what degree the South - and by transitivity the modern Republican party - still sees themselves as a conquered people trying to get even with the power that dealt them low.
Dyscord gets it in one.
I don't think that most are aware of the white priviledge they have grown up with or enjoyed. I think that, like most conservatives, they have convinced themselves that whatever good things they enjoy they have earned and whatever bad things they face have been inflicted upon them (generally by Liberals or Yankees).
I don't think most of their feelings are subject to precise articulation.
All nations have their ghosts.
Well, sure. This is the reason we see language like "they're taking our country away" and so on, because these people have never thought far enough outside their comfort zone to realize that "their america" was built on and still exists partially because of exploitation of racial minorities, or admitted to themselves what the consequences of that should be.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
yeah, some nations confront them, and some nations have political parties running on the pro-ghost platform
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
The only time I actually see people use some kind of damnyankees argument it's always intended ironically. Liberal is vastly more prevalent, though I suppose that one could argue that it's a dogwhistle for yankee.
Dyscord, you deserve a beer for this one. Awesome post!
My Southern relatives generally use "elitists" or "liberals" or sometimes "Northerners". I always just take it as an updated "yankee," like you said. I don't even think that "Yankee" is offensive so much as it sounds kind of dated and olde-timie.
I'd argue that the US actually does a considerably better job confronting them than most other nations.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Ever hear of the modern day "culture crisis" in Europe?
Also, as much controversy as it's caused, we still do have affirmative action in this country. We also still openly encourage integration and have an overreaching trend of tolerance messages in our mainstream media culture (just watch commercials).
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
Exactly. We're mostly rational people with ideas that are, at the least, worth bringing to the table and having a discussion about.
Except that there are maybe a handful of politicians on the Federal level who actually represent our views.
So we vote Democrat, because they actually seem to have a plan. At least, more of a plan than yelling really loudly.
Oh, and voting for rape. I don't like people who vote for rape.
Exactly. What kind of conservative would make laws lax for military contractors representing America abroad, at the expense of the individual? What kind of conservative would give the government the power to collect private information in order to make society more biblical? Conservatism doesn't see the old as good by default - if the now works then taking a step back or moving forward requires more analysis and justification to a conservative. What the GOP is now is either regressive or careless - it is anathema to conservatism.
OK, so obviously most of my posts were not read. I dislike the Republicans as much as i do the Democrats, both are corrupt and self serving. I did not vote for either in the last election, on all levels of government. Also I cannot stand Hannity, or Limbaugh, or Beck. These men are entertains and promote only operational thinking, much like the dribble i get in emails from Democrat party and from moveon.org. I am sorry but the 2 parties are jokes, are not representative of the people, and care for little more than their own personal and agenda advancements. And I did not realize that Socialism, an economic theory of society, had anything to do with the amount of melatonin in anyone's skin...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To some extent, they really were a conquered people. They had every right as self governing states to leave the Union if they felt the Federal Government didn't meet the needs of the people.
I always try and bring this discussion up if I'm working with students in or around any Civil War sections in class. It's interesting to see what they think of states rights versus federal powers and the idea of a government existing only because of the consent of the governed.
I can't believe you've done this.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I've got to be honest... I don't understand what the point of this survey was. They can't claim they're learning anything about their constituents because with questions that loaded you're clearly just trying to get a parroted response rather than utilize a bottom-up method of re-organizing one's party.
And they can't release the findings of this survey and imply that it means anything either. First, because it's self-selected Republicans answering it, and second, more importantly, because the questions are laughably loaded.
So uh... what's the point? Who spent time making this and plans to analyze it for some worthwhile purpose?
Obviously people with too much time. They are just desperately seeking to find out what it is they need to say to be elected. So afterward they can throw it all aside.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My favourite question is
"His chosen tasks", what's that even meant to mean?
And it'll give the Republicans something to cite when they say that around 95% of their constituents support whatever it is they want to do.
Unless it ends up being mainly filled in by liberals saying "no" to everything.
Dammit all, I'm never voting Republican again if that survey is real.
Wait, is it real? I'd assumed it was hosted on GOP.com, but it isn't.
[ed] Ah, carry on. I missed something important. Whoopsy.
Another tell-tale sign is a lack of a virtual Michael Steele on my screen. :P
AHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Despite Chavez's best efforts, Venezuela is still a democracy.
Also, the form apparently doesn't check for any false information so it accepted my answers from Penis.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The problem isn't so much the topics as how ridiculously loaded they are.
It really shows there's no genuine impetuous towards reforming the party or changing its direction. At least, not by this survey.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
Well, gosh, when you put it that way...
I'm surprised the last question wasn't "When did Obama stop beating his wife?..."
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