Since it seems to be a surprising point of controversy, let me give you a very simple and easy rule to avoid raping anybody:
When in doubt, do not stick your dick in anything.
lol. I just stick to:
#1 Don't stick your dick in somebody if they don't want you to. Kinda obvious here.
#2 If they are drunk/high or whatever, then they aren't really in a state to give consent. If you haven't had sex before, don't, unless you want to get your ass in trouble. Having sex with your regular girlfriend after having a night out is safe in my book, assuming of course that #1 is not violated in the process.
This is a great rule for life as well as sex, and will take you far.
o_O Celibacy may work for you but I would probably go insane and my fiance would too.
What's celibate about it? "Hmm, should I stick my dick in this? I'm not sure..... so I probably shouldn't." Like "Hey, I could put my wang in this jello pudding cup in the grocery store. Should I? Hmm.... I'm sensing some doubt here, so I'll just hold off, just to be on the safe side."
I mean, its basically the same thing as rule #1, just expanded a bit to cover anything else that comes up.
So, once again, all sex is rape, including if it's consenting and she specifically says "stick your dick in my wet pussy." if she, in her mind, with no outward signs, THINKS it's rape. No matter what she says or does.
Regardless, whether or not you fight back, or how desperately you fight back, has nothing to do with whether or not the crime committed against you was wrong.
Question dodge, again. If a woman is considering herself being raped, but the man has NO WAY OF KNOWING IT BECAUSE BY ALL REASONABLE OUTWARD APPEARANCES, SHE IS CONSENTING, at what point is she responsible for saying "no."
Never? If so, then all sex is implicitly rape.
If she's consenting, it's not rape.
What are you talking about?
How can you ever know she's consenting?
WHOOOO CAN EVER KNOW WHAT THESE ALIEN CREATURES ARE REALLY THINKING
ARE THEY SIMPLY HERE TO STEAL OUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS
the guy in the situation did not know that it was nonconsensual sex. you may call him an idiot, a monster, an asshole, whatever, but you know what he is? a product of rape culture. a non-deviant product of the culture at large.
Women are not helpless victims. At what point is a woman responsible for herself if a situation like this arises? When should she say no? When should she resist?
Or should she not say no, not resist, give permission to engage in sex, then report it as rape?
This is exactly the kind of victim-blaming logic that fucks up rape cases and makes women reluctant to even report it when they're raped.
The victim is not responsible for being raped. Never. Never ever ever. She might have been able to prevent it from happening, but a) that doesn't make it her fault, and b) it does not EVER EVER EVER absolve the rapist. Ever. Especially when the passivity, non-resistance, and general paralysis of fear is trained into many women by their upbringing, since we still control women through gender roles.
It doesn't matter if she's dancing naked on the table at a frat party. If she gets raped, do you know who's the rapist? The guy who raped her. Was she foolish to do so? Yes. But that doesn't make it her fault, nor does it absolve the crime.
These fears are exactly why women consider every single man who approaches them to be a potential threat of rape - the fear of being raped, and the fear of being accused of responsibility in being raped because they didn't take enough measures to prevent it.
The only person responsible for a rape is the rapist. If rape is going to stop occurring, it's going to stop because rapists stop raping.
That kind of logic is a step away from "well, wearing that dress, she was asking for it."
just to show that this isn't exactly applicable as a two way street:
(and this happens all the time, take it from my two weeks worth of experience as a stripper)
Male stripper is at work.
Male stripper is naked giving women lap dances, some are hot, some are utterly repulsive.
One utterly repulsive woman grabs his dick and shoves it in her mouth.
was he raped?
It wasn't consentual, the guy DEFINITELY didn't want his wang inside her mouth (he wanted it in the hot brunette's mouth sitting at the next table), but he's naked with his johnson in front of some woman's face... While disgusted, he allows her to do what she wanted to do and moves on to the next repulsive woman, who proceeds to do the same thing without consent. If he claims "rape", NO ONE would take him seriously and would likely cite him being naked in front of a bunch of women as reason enough for something like this to take place.
So, once again, all sex is rape, including if it's consenting and she specifically says "stick your dick in my wet pussy." if she, in her mind, with no outward signs, THINKS it's rape. No matter what she says or does.
You've moved the goalposts away from "failure to say no" over to "fabricating consent."
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Regardless, whether or not you fight back, or how desperately you fight back, has nothing to do with whether or not the crime committed against you was wrong.
Question dodge, again. If a woman is considering herself being raped, but the man has NO WAY OF KNOWING IT BECAUSE BY ALL REASONABLE OUTWARD APPEARANCES, SHE IS CONSENTING, at what point is she responsible for saying "no."
Never? If so, then all sex is implicitly rape.
If she's consenting, it's not rape.
What are you talking about?
How can you ever know she's consenting?
WHOOOO CAN EVER KNOW WHAT THESE ALIEN CREATURES ARE REALLY THINKING
ARE THEY SIMPLY HERE TO STEAL OUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS
just to show that this isn't exactly applicable as a two way street:
(and this happens all the time, take it from my two weeks worth of experience as a stripper)
Male stripper is at work.
Male stripper is naked giving women lap dances, some are hot, some are utterly repulsive.
One utterly repulsive woman grabs his dick and shoves it in her mouth.
There's a distinct difference between saying "by wearing that dress, she was asking for it" and saying "by verbally asking me for it, she was asking for it", and between those two lies a slippery slope.
In cases of purposeful rape there is ABSOLUTELY no one at fault other than the rapist. In cases of, for lack of a better term, "accidental rape", it becomes a bit trickier. If the "rapist" has no idea that he is carrying out a crime, whereas the other individual DOES know that a crime is occuring, but is witholding that information, then how do you place full fault on the "accidental rapist"?
It wasn't consentual, the guy DEFINITELY didn't want his wang inside her mouth (he wanted it in the hot brunette's mouth sitting at the next table), but he's naked with his johnson in front of some woman's face... While disgusted, he allows her to do what she wanted to do and moves on to the next repulsive woman, who proceeds to do the same thing without consent. If he claims "rape", NO ONE would take him seriously and would likely cite him being naked in front of a bunch of women as reason enough for something like this to take place.
Anecdotal, I know, but it DOES happen.
"If you are a man, you can't be raped by a woman" + "Sex workers can't be raped" are like two of the most basic instantiations of the rape culture dude, no doubt about it
I've been drunk plenty of times and consented to sex.
Woke up the next day and regretted it, but I wasn't raped and I didn't get in trouble.
The fact that you did not have an issue with it the day after didn't make it not rape.
If a rapist accidentally rapes someone with a rape fantasy who turns out to enjoy it (which doesn't happen but you get the idea) it is still rape.
People stay in relationships where they get raped all the time.
--
If some hobo stole a baguette of bread from my shopping bag I wouldn't be upset either. Doesn't mean it wasn't theft.
If you're at a bar drinking, intoxicated, and a hobo asks you for a quarter and you give it to him and decide the next day that you regret giving that quarter to that hobo, that does not make it theft.
Sheep on
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
Have we discussed the whole 'mob mentality' aspect to rape culture yet? In the sense that people who obviously aren't murderers have stood around and watched other people be murdered because everyone expects 'someone to intervene' but with that someone being somebody ELSE?
I mentioned it in relation to diffusion of responsibility being something that happens and isn't unique to rape or pack rape.
So, once again, all sex is rape, including if it's consenting and she specifically says "stick your dick in my wet pussy." if she, in her mind, with no outward signs, THINKS it's rape. No matter what she says or does.
You've moved the goalposts away from "failure to say no" over to "fabricating consent."
Male stripper is at work.
Male stripper is naked giving women lap dances, some are hot, some are utterly repulsive.
One utterly repulsive woman grabs his dick and shoves it in her mouth.
If he didn't want it to happen, it is rape.
Doesn't matter what gender, the circumstances, the appearance of the people involved, etc.
If you're at a bar drinking, intoxicated, and a hobo asks you for a quarter and you give it to him and decide the next day that you regret giving that quarter to that hobo, that does not make it theft.
Yes it does.
You just don't care because of the size of the loss.
Regardless, whether or not you fight back, or how desperately you fight back, has nothing to do with whether or not the crime committed against you was wrong.
Question dodge, again. If a woman is considering herself being raped, but the man has NO WAY OF KNOWING IT BECAUSE BY ALL REASONABLE OUTWARD APPEARANCES, SHE IS CONSENTING, at what point is she responsible for saying "no."
Never? If so, then all sex is implicitly rape.
She is never responsible.
Your logic is simply faulty.
All sex is potentially rape. Every single time, every single act.
But if the victim does not feel they have been raped, if they themselves in their own mind consent, then it is not rape.
Does that make the situation tough for guys, sometimes? Yeah. But it's also how you stop rape from occurring in ambiguous situations. Better to have eterntal, awkward uncertainty or an epidemic of college guys with blue balls than even one victim of rape.
So, once again, all sex is rape, including if it's consenting and she specifically says "stick your dick in my wet pussy." if she, in her mind, with no outward signs, THINKS it's rape. No matter what she says or does.
If a girl says "stick your dick in my wet pussy," you can be fairly certain that it's not going to be rape.
if she says that, but only because she feels pressured into sex, then yes it's rape. but you know what? that almost never happens. enthusiastic consent is a pretty good guarantee that it's not false consent.
you're not getting it. No sex is rape until a participant therein feels that they have been raped (even if they don't know that it's actually rape, as is often the case).
This doesn't mean that all sex is rape; it means you can never know if sex is rape or not.
This is exactly the case. If you're a sensitive, knowledgeable, empathetic person, you'll probably be able to see whether there's consent. If you're not - and many men are not - you might well end up raping someone without knowing it.
If you're at a bar drinking, intoxicated, and a hobo asks you for a quarter and you give it to him and decide the next day that you regret giving that quarter to that hobo, that does not make it theft.
Yes it does.
You just don't care because of the size of the loss.
Wow.
Sheep on
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
It wasn't consentual, the guy DEFINITELY didn't want his wang inside her mouth (he wanted it in the hot brunette's mouth sitting at the next table), but he's naked with his johnson in front of some woman's face... While disgusted, he allows her to do what she wanted to do and moves on to the next repulsive woman, who proceeds to do the same thing without consent. If he claims "rape", NO ONE would take him seriously and would likely cite him being naked in front of a bunch of women as reason enough for something like this to take place.
Anecdotal, I know, but it DOES happen.
"If you are a man, you can't be raped by a woman" + "Sex workers can't be raped" are like two of the most basic instantiations of the rape culture dude, no doubt about it
And how many people actually believe that once the specifics and facts are shown? It's a ridiculous to claim that this is a widely held belief.
So, once again, all sex is rape, including if it's consenting and she specifically says "stick your dick in my wet pussy." if she, in her mind, with no outward signs, THINKS it's rape. No matter what she says or does.
You've moved the goalposts away from "failure to say no" over to "fabricating consent."
It wasn't consentual, the guy DEFINITELY didn't want his wang inside her mouth (he wanted it in the hot brunette's mouth sitting at the next table), but he's naked with his johnson in front of some woman's face... While disgusted, he allows her to do what she wanted to do and moves on to the next repulsive woman, who proceeds to do the same thing without consent. If he claims "rape", NO ONE would take him seriously and would likely cite him being naked in front of a bunch of women as reason enough for something like this to take place.
Anecdotal, I know, but it DOES happen.
"If you are a man, you can't be raped by a woman" + "Sex workers can't be raped" are like two of the most basic instantiations of the rape culture dude, no doubt about it
And how many people actually believe that once the specifics and facts are shown?
Actually believe what? I don't know what you are asking at all
scrivenerjones on
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
It wasn't consentual, the guy DEFINITELY didn't want his wang inside her mouth (he wanted it in the hot brunette's mouth sitting at the next table), but he's naked with his johnson in front of some woman's face... While disgusted, he allows her to do what she wanted to do and moves on to the next repulsive woman, who proceeds to do the same thing without consent. If he claims "rape", NO ONE would take him seriously and would likely cite him being naked in front of a bunch of women as reason enough for something like this to take place.
Anecdotal, I know, but it DOES happen.
"If you are a man, you can't be raped by a woman" + "Sex workers can't be raped" are like two of the most basic instantiations of the rape culture dude, no doubt about it
And how many people actually believe that once the specifics and facts are shown?
Actually believe what? I don't know what you are asking at all
There's a distinct difference between saying "by wearing that dress, she was asking for it" and saying "by verbally asking me for it, she was asking for it", and between those two lies a slippery slope.
In cases of purposeful rape there is ABSOLUTELY no one at fault other than the rapist. In cases of, for lack of a better term, "accidental rape", it becomes a bit trickier. If the "rapist" has no idea that he is carrying out a crime, whereas the other individual DOES know that a crime is occuring, but is witholding that information, then how do you place full fault on the "accidental rapist"?
because a woman being raped is not an academy award winning actress. she is suffering, she is scared, she is in pain; any false consent will be visibly false consent if you care about the person you're having sex with.
the problem is that a rape culture is one where people have difficulty seeing that there is no consent, or don't believe that the situation exists. the "accidental rapist" has harmed the victim, and is a danger to other potential victims - why shouldn't there be repercussions?
just to show that this isn't exactly applicable as a two way street:
(and this happens all the time, take it from my two weeks worth of experience as a stripper)
Male stripper is at work.
Male stripper is naked giving women lap dances, some are hot, some are utterly repulsive.
One utterly repulsive woman grabs his dick and shoves it in her mouth.
was he raped?
Yes.
She could be a supermodel, too.
but if he wouldn't have minded that coming from a supermodel, wouldn't the defense have a leg to stand on?
"Well... he's only crying rape because he finds the defendant unattractive".
In which case, would this apply to female strippes in the same way? (my answer is "no", all unconsentual contact between a female stripper and a "customer" is akin to rape)
And wow, it really is amazing how many guys are holding on to the notion that women are witholding frigid bitches who need to be pushed into putting out. And they're all in here, looking for societal permission to coerce and bully their way into sex should some woman ever have the nerve to not be especially interested in having sex with them specifically.
Pathetic.
The Cat on
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
Regardless, whether or not you fight back, or how desperately you fight back, has nothing to do with whether or not the crime committed against you was wrong.
Question dodge, again. If a woman is considering herself being raped, but the man has NO WAY OF KNOWING IT BECAUSE BY ALL REASONABLE OUTWARD APPEARANCES, SHE IS CONSENTING, at what point is she responsible for saying "no."
Never? If so, then all sex is implicitly rape.
She is never responsible.
Your logic is simply faulty.
All sex is potentially rape. Every single time, every single act.
But if the victim does not feel they have been raped, if they themselves in their own mind consent, then it is not rape.
Does that make the situation tough for guys, sometimes? Yeah. But it's also how you stop rape from occurring in ambiguous situations. Better to have eterntal, awkward uncertainty or an epidemic of college guys with blue balls than even one victim of rape.
So, once again, all sex is rape, including if it's consenting and she specifically says "stick your dick in my wet pussy." if she, in her mind, with no outward signs, THINKS it's rape. No matter what she says or does.
If a girl says "stick your dick in my wet pussy," you can be fairly certain that it's not going to be rape.
if she says that, but only because she feels pressured into sex, then yes it's rape. but you know what? that almost never happens. enthusiastic consent is a pretty good guarantee that it's not false consent.
you're not getting it. No sex is rape until a participant therein feels that they have been raped (even if they don't know that it's actually rape, as is often the case).
This doesn't mean that all sex is rape; it means you can never know if sex is rape or not.
This is exactly the case. If you're a sensitive, knowledgeable, empathetic person, you'll probably be able to see whether there's consent. If you're not - and many men are not - you might well end up raping someone without knowing it.
Not all sex is going to be enthusiastic, so I doubt that this is a good way to judge rape or not.
It's not ridiculous to claim that it is a widely held belief that a man can't be raped by a woman.
Edit: anyone can be raped by anybody given the right circumstances, but some people will justify certain scenarios for reasons that are beyond me. Misconceptions like "well if the guy's hard, he's consented". No. No he has not (necessarily) consented.
"Accidental" Rape would be easier to work with if sex offenders didn't have a really bizarre treatment by the justice system.
I absolutely agree. I am not saying than an "accidental rapist" is entirely WITHOUT fault either, but if we accept that rape (as we conventionally see it) is more about power than love/lust, the "accidental rapist" fits a very different pattern than what we conventionally think of as rape.
And wow, it really is amazing how many guys are holding on to the notion that women are witholding frigid bitches who need to be pushed into putting out. And they're all in here, looking for societal permission to coerce and bully their way into sex should some woman ever have the nerve to not be especially interested in having sex with them specifically.
but if he wouldn't have minded that coming from a supermodel, wouldn't the defense have a leg to stand on?
"Well... he's only crying rape because he finds the defendant unattractive".
In which case, would this apply to female strippes in the same way? (my answer is "no", all unconsentual contact between a female stripper and a "customer" is akin to rape)
The fact that people think that nonconsensual sex is not rape if it involves an attractive person is part of the rape culture shit.
So, once again, all sex is rape, including if it's consenting and she specifically says "stick your dick in my wet pussy." if she, in her mind, with no outward signs, THINKS it's rape. No matter what she says or does.
You've moved the goalposts away from "failure to say no" over to "fabricating consent."
saying "yes" isn't really enough; it's not uncommon for a woman to falsely consent when she is scared or pressured into it
Did you scare or pressure her into it?
No?
Okay then.
Doesn't matter. The argument posited above is she can say yes, and it's still rape.
Yes, but she can also say yes and mean it.
you're totally ignoring a set of possible - and common - issues. it's an epistemological problem, not an ontological one.
Partner visibly does not consent. Sex occurs. = rape
Partner's consent is ambiguous, but they do not actually want to have sex. Sex occurs. = rape
Partner feels coerced and issues false consent. Sex occurs. = rape
Partner's consent is ambiguous, but they do want to have sex. = NOT rape
Partner issues consent. Sex occurs. = NOT rape
Partner issues false non-consent through roleplaying, but wants to have sex. Sex occurs. = NOT rape
Are you saying that the final three situations cannot exist in my definition of rape? Because they can, and do.
What matters is how the victim feels, not how they act.
"Accidental" Rape would be easier to work with if sex offenders didn't have a really bizarre treatment by the justice system.
I absolutely agree. I am not saying than an "accidental rapist" is entirely WITHOUT fault either, but if we accept that rape (as we conventionally see it) is more about power than love/lust, the "accidental rapist" fits a very different pattern than what we conventionally think of as rape.
In the vanishingly rare situation of a true accidental rape, the accidental rapist needs to be made to attend some courses, under court order, until he or she is no longer capable of being oblivious to signs of a rape.
"Accidental" Rape would be easier to work with if sex offenders didn't have a really bizarre treatment by the justice system.
I absolutely agree. I am not saying than an "accidental rapist" is entirely WITHOUT fault either, but if we accept that rape (as we conventionally see it) is more about power than love/lust, the "accidental rapist" fits a very different pattern than what we conventionally think of as rape.
It's possible that what we "conventionally think of as rape" is actually completely inaccurate, BTW.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
It's not ridiculous to claim that it is a widely held belief that a man can't be raped by a woman.
Edit: anyone can be raped by anybody given the right circumstances, but some people will justify certain scenarios for reasons that are beyond me. Misconceptions like "well if the guy's hard, he's consented". No. No he has not (necessarily) consented.
Which is why I said, once the specifics of the case are laid out, it's hard to deny rape. It's more of a lack of imagination or infrequency of case that leads to this kind of thought.
And wow, it really is amazing how many guys are holding on to the notion that women are witholding frigid bitches who need to be pushed into putting out. And they're all in here, looking for societal permission to coerce and bully their way into sex should some woman ever have the nerve to not be especially interested in having sex with them specifically.
Pathetic.
Yes and also deliberately failing to recognize that the myth of man as aggressor and woman as passive vessel is a cornerstone of rape culture with these same pleas for validation.
but if he wouldn't have minded that coming from a supermodel, wouldn't the defense have a leg to stand on?
"Well... he's only crying rape because he finds the defendant unattractive".
In which case, would this apply to female strippes in the same way? (my answer is "no", all unconsentual contact between a female stripper and a "customer" is akin to rape)
The fact that people think that nonconsensual sex is not rape if it involves an attractive person is part of the rape culture shit.
So wait, wait, FUCKING WAIT
Not only do individuals get to pick whether or not to have sex (which is, of course, incredible insanity of the highest order)
but
seriously
but
they get to decide WHO TO HAVE SEX WITH!??!?!?!?!
I think maybe you just secretly hate sex and want all sex to be classified as rape so the robots can take over.
Posts
What's celibate about it? "Hmm, should I stick my dick in this? I'm not sure..... so I probably shouldn't." Like "Hey, I could put my wang in this jello pudding cup in the grocery store. Should I? Hmm.... I'm sensing some doubt here, so I'll just hold off, just to be on the safe side."
I mean, its basically the same thing as rule #1, just expanded a bit to cover anything else that comes up.
Gray area.
Mostly a strawman.
WHOOOO CAN EVER KNOW WHAT THESE ALIEN CREATURES ARE REALLY THINKING
ARE THEY SIMPLY HERE TO STEAL OUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS
fuck off.
just to show that this isn't exactly applicable as a two way street:
(and this happens all the time, take it from my two weeks worth of experience as a stripper)
Male stripper is at work.
Male stripper is naked giving women lap dances, some are hot, some are utterly repulsive.
One utterly repulsive woman grabs his dick and shoves it in her mouth.
was he raped?
It wasn't consentual, the guy DEFINITELY didn't want his wang inside her mouth (he wanted it in the hot brunette's mouth sitting at the next table), but he's naked with his johnson in front of some woman's face... While disgusted, he allows her to do what she wanted to do and moves on to the next repulsive woman, who proceeds to do the same thing without consent. If he claims "rape", NO ONE would take him seriously and would likely cite him being naked in front of a bunch of women as reason enough for something like this to take place.
Anecdotal, I know, but it DOES happen.
You've moved the goalposts away from "failure to say no" over to "fabricating consent."
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Yes.
She could be a supermodel, too.
In cases of purposeful rape there is ABSOLUTELY no one at fault other than the rapist. In cases of, for lack of a better term, "accidental rape", it becomes a bit trickier. If the "rapist" has no idea that he is carrying out a crime, whereas the other individual DOES know that a crime is occuring, but is witholding that information, then how do you place full fault on the "accidental rapist"?
"If you are a man, you can't be raped by a woman" + "Sex workers can't be raped" are like two of the most basic instantiations of the rape culture dude, no doubt about it
If you're at a bar drinking, intoxicated, and a hobo asks you for a quarter and you give it to him and decide the next day that you regret giving that quarter to that hobo, that does not make it theft.
I mentioned it in relation to diffusion of responsibility being something that happens and isn't unique to rape or pack rape.
Did you scare or pressure her into it?
No?
Okay then.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
If he didn't want it to happen, it is rape.
Doesn't matter what gender, the circumstances, the appearance of the people involved, etc.
Yes it does.
You just don't care because of the size of the loss.
Like comparing a titty squeeze to an ass fuck.
If a girl says "stick your dick in my wet pussy," you can be fairly certain that it's not going to be rape.
if she says that, but only because she feels pressured into sex, then yes it's rape. but you know what? that almost never happens. enthusiastic consent is a pretty good guarantee that it's not false consent.
you're not getting it. No sex is rape until a participant therein feels that they have been raped (even if they don't know that it's actually rape, as is often the case).
This doesn't mean that all sex is rape; it means you can never know if sex is rape or not.
This is exactly the case. If you're a sensitive, knowledgeable, empathetic person, you'll probably be able to see whether there's consent. If you're not - and many men are not - you might well end up raping someone without knowing it.
Wow.
And how many people actually believe that once the specifics and facts are shown? It's a ridiculous to claim that this is a widely held belief.
See, now you're constructing possible (though unlikely) scenarios instead of looking at actual incidents.
Actually believe what? I don't know what you are asking at all
Check the edit.
because a woman being raped is not an academy award winning actress. she is suffering, she is scared, she is in pain; any false consent will be visibly false consent if you care about the person you're having sex with.
the problem is that a rape culture is one where people have difficulty seeing that there is no consent, or don't believe that the situation exists. the "accidental rapist" has harmed the victim, and is a danger to other potential victims - why shouldn't there be repercussions?
but if he wouldn't have minded that coming from a supermodel, wouldn't the defense have a leg to stand on?
"Well... he's only crying rape because he finds the defendant unattractive".
In which case, would this apply to female strippes in the same way? (my answer is "no", all unconsentual contact between a female stripper and a "customer" is akin to rape)
Pathetic.
Not all sex is going to be enthusiastic, so I doubt that this is a good way to judge rape or not.
Edit: anyone can be raped by anybody given the right circumstances, but some people will justify certain scenarios for reasons that are beyond me. Misconceptions like "well if the guy's hard, he's consented". No. No he has not (necessarily) consented.
I absolutely agree. I am not saying than an "accidental rapist" is entirely WITHOUT fault either, but if we accept that rape (as we conventionally see it) is more about power than love/lust, the "accidental rapist" fits a very different pattern than what we conventionally think of as rape.
If he "wouldn't have minded it" from a different woman, then it would have been consensual.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I suspect alts.
The fact that people think that nonconsensual sex is not rape if it involves an attractive person is part of the rape culture shit.
Yes, but she can also say yes and mean it.
you're totally ignoring a set of possible - and common - issues. it's an epistemological problem, not an ontological one.
Partner visibly does not consent. Sex occurs. = rape
Partner's consent is ambiguous, but they do not actually want to have sex. Sex occurs. = rape
Partner feels coerced and issues false consent. Sex occurs. = rape
Partner's consent is ambiguous, but they do want to have sex. = NOT rape
Partner issues consent. Sex occurs. = NOT rape
Partner issues false non-consent through roleplaying, but wants to have sex. Sex occurs. = NOT rape
Are you saying that the final three situations cannot exist in my definition of rape? Because they can, and do.
What matters is how the victim feels, not how they act.
In the vanishingly rare situation of a true accidental rape, the accidental rapist needs to be made to attend some courses, under court order, until he or she is no longer capable of being oblivious to signs of a rape.
It's possible that what we "conventionally think of as rape" is actually completely inaccurate, BTW.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Which is why I said, once the specifics of the case are laid out, it's hard to deny rape. It's more of a lack of imagination or infrequency of case that leads to this kind of thought.
Yes and also deliberately failing to recognize that the myth of man as aggressor and woman as passive vessel is a cornerstone of rape culture with these same pleas for validation.
So wait, wait, FUCKING WAIT
Not only do individuals get to pick whether or not to have sex (which is, of course, incredible insanity of the highest order)
but
seriously
but
they get to decide WHO TO HAVE SEX WITH!??!?!?!?!
I think maybe you just secretly hate sex and want all sex to be classified as rape so the robots can take over.