So, if you can already get yourself in the right mood for enjoying whatever, the drugs are superfluous?
I'm still sort of wondering whether or not I'm actually missing out.
If someone needs to get high before they can enjoy John Cage and I can enjoy John Cage without getting high, then I shouldn't need to get high. But if getting high and then listening to John Cage actually changes what you hear or experience in a way I would never get sober then I am missing something. Maybe it's not important, but it's still something.
Think about this: You can enjoy a sandwich without mustard.
An interesting way of putting it, but I think I get it.
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
I mean I guess you can't really understand skydiving unless you've been, and it could be an amazing, peak experience. But plenty of people are either uninterested or not comfortable with the risks, and nobody can really say whether they'd have been significantly happier having tried it.
So, if you can already get yourself in the right mood for enjoying whatever, the drugs are superfluous?
I'm still sort of wondering whether or not I'm actually missing out.
If someone needs to get high before they can enjoy John Cage and I can enjoy John Cage without getting high, then I shouldn't need to get high. But if getting high and then listening to John Cage actually changes what you hear or experience in a way I would never get sober then I am missing something. Maybe it's not important, but it's still something.
If you're really that curious you could just try it. I don't think people in general need drugs to appreciate music or art in general. I think it helps me a great deal, but I also consider myself somewhat unusual in that regard. You have no way of knowing how you'll react to it until you try it.
if you're wondering whether you're missing out not getting stoned, sitting back, closing your eyes, and listening to a really good song then the answer is yes
you are missing out
drugs alter your perception, your thinking, and your reality. it is really impossible to describe the effect. They're not for every one and I would only recommend the safer ones. but man.
talk about transcendent.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
I've never much enjoyed the beat literature / poetry that was inspired by tripping and hating the man.
Straight out of Aldous Huxley's - The Doors of Perception:
He could never, poor fellow, have seen a bunch of flowers shining with their own inner light and all but quivering under the pressure of the significance with which they were charged; could never have perceived that what rose and iris and carnation so intensely signified was nothing more, and nothing less, than what they were - a transience that was yet eternal life, a perpetual perishing that was at the same time pure Being, a bundle of minute, unique particulars in which, by some unspeakable and yet self-evident paradox, was to be seen the divine source of all existence.
Thats probably the best description I've seen of a psychedelic effect. Its practically impossible to describe their full impact on your mind. Marijuana of course isn't going to do nearly as much for you as the mescaline that Huxley is describing but it is going to alter your perception in different ways.
Straight out of Aldous Huxley's - The Doors of Perception:
He could never, poor fellow, have seen a bunch of flowers shining with their own inner light and all but quivering under the pressure of the significance with which they were charged; could never have perceived that what rose and iris and carnation so intensely signified was nothing more, and nothing less, than what they were - a transience that was yet eternal life, a perpetual perishing that was at the same time pure Being, a bundle of minute, unique particulars in which, by some unspeakable and yet self-evident paradox, was to be seen the divine source of all existence.
Thats probably the best description I've seen of a psychedelic effect. Its practically impossible to describe their full impact on your mind. Marijuana of course isn't going to do nearly as much for you as the mescaline that Huxley is describing but it is going to alter your perception in different ways.
So the best description is a rambling paragraph of claptrap?
Straight out of Aldous Huxley's - The Doors of Perception:
He could never, poor fellow, have seen a bunch of flowers shining with their own inner light and all but quivering under the pressure of the significance with which they were charged; could never have perceived that what rose and iris and carnation so intensely signified was nothing more, and nothing less, than what they were - a transience that was yet eternal life, a perpetual perishing that was at the same time pure Being, a bundle of minute, unique particulars in which, by some unspeakable and yet self-evident paradox, was to be seen the divine source of all existence.
Thats probably the best description I've seen of a psychedelic effect. Its practically impossible to describe their full impact on your mind. Marijuana of course isn't going to do nearly as much for you as the mescaline that Huxley is describing but it is going to alter your perception in different ways.
So the best description is a rambling paragraph of claptrap?
Sorry if it's been mentioned, but my opinion on pot and the making of things seem better, is that the drug just makes you think about things in a different way. You aren't necessarily thinking more creatively or suddenly just understand the meaning behind something better, you just are thinking about the whole thing differently than you would sober. You make connections you wouldn't otherwise (or, miss some you would normally), and take a fresh look at what it is you are watching/ listening to.
That's why people think it is enhancing them in some way. It is just forcing them to analyze a bit different than they normally would.
As for alcohol, that's all pretty much herp derp woohoo. But c'mon. That's just fun.
Straight out of Aldous Huxley's - The Doors of Perception:
He could never, poor fellow, have seen a bunch of flowers shining with their own inner light and all but quivering under the pressure of the significance with which they were charged; could never have perceived that what rose and iris and carnation so intensely signified was nothing more, and nothing less, than what they were - a transience that was yet eternal life, a perpetual perishing that was at the same time pure Being, a bundle of minute, unique particulars in which, by some unspeakable and yet self-evident paradox, was to be seen the divine source of all existence.
Thats probably the best description I've seen of a psychedelic effect. Its practically impossible to describe their full impact on your mind. Marijuana of course isn't going to do nearly as much for you as the mescaline that Huxley is describing but it is going to alter your perception in different ways.
So the best description is a rambling paragraph of claptrap?
Yeah, McKenna is kind of out there in a pseudo-scientific religious kind of way. You might have better luck with John Ott.
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astrobstrdSo full of mercy...Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
I enjoy the ganga, and I like listening to music and watching movies while high. There are very few things I would tell people that they HAVE to be high to enjoy though...
Sorry if it's been mentioned, but my opinion on pot and the making of things seem better, is that the drug just makes you think about things in a different way. You aren't necessarily thinking more creatively or suddenly just understand the meaning behind something better, you just are thinking about the whole thing differently than you would sober. You make connections you wouldn't otherwise (or, miss some you would normally), and take a fresh look at what it is you are watching/ listening to.
I listen to songs involving decapitation and bananas. When I am sober I think to myself I'm fucking insane. When I am drunk I will still think to myself I'm fucking insane.
There's a quote, it's from a movie or an interview, sounds like it's from the 60's- I think I heard it on a Steve Lawler album- that goes something like
"All those musicians and artists that have contributed so much to your life and well being over the years? Really fucking high."
I wish I knew where that was from- but it encapsulates so much of this conversation..
That's Bill Hicks. The whole routine is great, if a bit simplistic...
2001: A Space Odyssey had been my favorite movie for some years before I ever tried psychedelics. One day, I took a small amount of LSD and spent a lazy Sunday tripping. As the trip wore on, I remembered that people back in the olden days of the 70's used to watch 2001 while tripping. Why should the tradition die? And when is it ever a bad time to watch my favorite movie? Sometimes it just feels good to live a stereotype.
Holy shit.
I'll certainly never look at that movie the same way again.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
There's a quote, it's from a movie or an interview, sounds like it's from the 60's- I think I heard it on a Steve Lawler album- that goes something like
"All those musicians and artists that have contributed so much to your life and well being over the years? Really fucking high."
I wish I knew where that was from- but it encapsulates so much of this conversation..
but overall weed just makes everything feel better.
riding a bike when high is fucking amazing, and so is sex, listening to pink floyd and eating pb&j's
it's not some amazing discovery, it's the nature of the drug
It's not just that drugs are going to cause people to see things differently, but you have to look at the specific effects of the drug and the style of art. The viewer is, of course, going to be the variable in the equation, but when you back up to a broader cultural level, you see pretty obvious trends circulating between people, elements of their lives (in this case, drugs), and the art itself.
It's not as if everyone involved in hip hop smokes marijuana or that everyone who smokes listens to hip hop, but the listeners, their primary intoxicants, and the aesthetic tropes of the genre all feed into each other over time. There's no shortage of straightforward rock music which sounds blatantly like music for people who are sober or reasonably drunk. Radiohead was mentioned for the ominous weed cloud, and they are a band who seem to toy with normal rock tropes and more sound designey elements at the same time.
Marijuana affects most peoples' sense of time. When time seems to be moving not more slowly but to be moving in more discretely expanded 'ticks,' everything from your sense of musical tempo to the cinematic pacing of a movie is going to be affected. If someone takes mushrooms, certain kinds of filtered synthesizers are going to make one sensation crawl across your scalp, and a plucked guitar string will create a different one. Poets loved opium and absinthe because they thought the languorous murk was a terribly romantic door into dreams or the subconscious or what have you.
On the more subjective level, as everyone has already said -- it's very, very difficult to verbalize the sensations of being on different drugs, because the act of feeling those sensations is itself changed. There's "Mondrian," and then there's Mondrian on 2cb. There's a dancehall song on desktop speakers while you're sitting in the office, and there's dancehall coming from a wall of subwoofers in a dark room with thick air surrounded by people smoking pounds of reefer madness. When you are consistently experiencing the art in the same mind set, with the same habitual thoughts, in the same setting, it's tough not to take those for granted and that's where the "drugs make you notice things you wouldn't have" comes into play.
There's nothing intrinsically good or bad with attempting to absorb art in a pseudo-scientific, dispassionate, pretend sterile sort of way -- you're talking about the history of the art gallery there -- but there's also nothing inherently invalid about being willfully situated in your experience of it, and something like taking hallucinogens is going to color that.
More on-topic, I'm with the Op. Never touched the stuff, though I've had plenty of chances. I will say, though, that drugs have enhanced my entertainment at parties, even though I wasn't the one taking them. Probably because I wasn't taking them. Oh man, so many laughs...
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
He has some funny routines, but I'm not much a fan of his style.
I'm more a fan of his style than most of his actual jokes. when I play him for other people I feel uncomfortable because there aren't a lot of laughs per se, but I like the dude a lot and his character shines through hard. could definitely see it as off putting.
Personal experience? Weed, specifically, just makes everything seem better. Of course, you're impaired (Which is the downside), but I enjoy pretty much everything more when smoking weed. I do not suggest doing anything of particular importance while under the effects of weed, though (Like going to work or driving, for example).
Alcohol, on the other hand, is different. I enjoy drinking in social situations only. It loosens me up (And that's just with a good buzz. Getting wasted is usually never a good idea). As for enhancing things, it usually doesn't.
Psychedelics are interesting to experiment with. They give you a whole new perception on things. This is a double-edged sword, though. Some things will be quite interesting and fun, while others may cause you to freak out. If you are to try these, go for the safer ones and make sure you are in a controlled environment. Also, make sure to clear your day.
As for the creative effect, personally, I've found I am no more creative when under the effect of weed or psychedelics than I am sober. And, actually, have found myself less creative while under the effects of alcohol.
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Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
Weed is pretty damn awesome, although I can't play FPS's while I'm stoned.
Tetris Attack, though? I'm a fucking deity at that shit while high. It must be the colors. I can get people to play me while sober, but while I'm high? No takers.
I find marijuana seems to improve nearly everything - except reading. I am unable to enjoy reading novels or short stories while high, I usually read a page or two and give up to go play video games. So there's that.
Alcohol improves a few things and impairs others imo. With a mild drunk on I'm able to perform at high paced video games much better than usual (Geometry Wars on the 360, The Specialists Half-Life mod,etc.), sex is desensitized a bit (though that has it's upside), and the worst takeout imaginable suddenly becomes fine cuisine that you simply can't get enough of.On the other hand, I'm extremely more likely to say something stupid.
Magic Mushrooms are different. In an attempt to play Super Smash Bros Melee on shrooms, next to no actual playing was done. Two of my buddies put their controllers down after falling to their deaths, I was obsessed with staying alive to the point where I simply very slowly moved back and forth on a platform, and my other friend couldn't get over how FAT Ness is AND OMG HE JUST KEEPS GETTING FATTER AND FATTER WTF.Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon is simply amazing on mushrooms, as is nearly anything by Daft Punk.
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That is my most hated movie of all time, fuck that shit.
Donnie Darko I think would be a good movie to watch high, although honestly I feel like I'm too old for it now.
An interesting way of putting it, but I think I get it.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
If you're really that curious you could just try it. I don't think people in general need drugs to appreciate music or art in general. I think it helps me a great deal, but I also consider myself somewhat unusual in that regard. You have no way of knowing how you'll react to it until you try it.
you are missing out
drugs alter your perception, your thinking, and your reality. it is really impossible to describe the effect. They're not for every one and I would only recommend the safer ones. but man.
talk about transcendent.
Thats probably the best description I've seen of a psychedelic effect. Its practically impossible to describe their full impact on your mind. Marijuana of course isn't going to do nearly as much for you as the mescaline that Huxley is describing but it is going to alter your perception in different ways.
Are you talking about rap?
I'm talking about Beatnicks.
I think he means beat generation stuff, like beatniks. I can't quite tell if you're joking or not.\
edit: sigh, beat by a long time, I wasn't paying attention
Well it makes more sense when you read it high.
weed is not a secret decoder ring
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I've never personally been high or read Huxley.
That's why people think it is enhancing them in some way. It is just forcing them to analyze a bit different than they normally would.
As for alcohol, that's all pretty much herp derp woohoo. But c'mon. That's just fun.
Yeah, McKenna is kind of out there in a pseudo-scientific religious kind of way. You might have better luck with John Ott.
well except a few games...
Katamari Damacy, I'm looking at you.
That's Bill Hicks. The whole routine is great, if a bit simplistic...
Holy shit.
I'll certainly never look at that movie the same way again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J10w3FuCwfQ
do wish he were still around.
I haven't listened to his stuff for a while. Maybe I'll dig them out.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
riding a bike when high is fucking amazing, and so is sex, listening to pink floyd and eating pb&j's
it's not some amazing discovery, it's the nature of the drug
It's not as if everyone involved in hip hop smokes marijuana or that everyone who smokes listens to hip hop, but the listeners, their primary intoxicants, and the aesthetic tropes of the genre all feed into each other over time. There's no shortage of straightforward rock music which sounds blatantly like music for people who are sober or reasonably drunk. Radiohead was mentioned for the ominous weed cloud, and they are a band who seem to toy with normal rock tropes and more sound designey elements at the same time.
Marijuana affects most peoples' sense of time. When time seems to be moving not more slowly but to be moving in more discretely expanded 'ticks,' everything from your sense of musical tempo to the cinematic pacing of a movie is going to be affected. If someone takes mushrooms, certain kinds of filtered synthesizers are going to make one sensation crawl across your scalp, and a plucked guitar string will create a different one. Poets loved opium and absinthe because they thought the languorous murk was a terribly romantic door into dreams or the subconscious or what have you.
On the more subjective level, as everyone has already said -- it's very, very difficult to verbalize the sensations of being on different drugs, because the act of feeling those sensations is itself changed. There's "Mondrian," and then there's Mondrian on 2cb. There's a dancehall song on desktop speakers while you're sitting in the office, and there's dancehall coming from a wall of subwoofers in a dark room with thick air surrounded by people smoking pounds of reefer madness. When you are consistently experiencing the art in the same mind set, with the same habitual thoughts, in the same setting, it's tough not to take those for granted and that's where the "drugs make you notice things you wouldn't have" comes into play.
There's nothing intrinsically good or bad with attempting to absorb art in a pseudo-scientific, dispassionate, pretend sterile sort of way -- you're talking about the history of the art gallery there -- but there's also nothing inherently invalid about being willfully situated in your experience of it, and something like taking hallucinogens is going to color that.
And, if you've got a Hulu account, here's the Enhancement Smoker bit from Half Baked:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/25043/half-baked-enhancement-smoker
*edit* They've also got the Creative Smoker up there, along with the Scavenger and the Should Have Been There. Really good movie.
I am renting this movie this weekend
you better not have steered me wrong!
I'm more a fan of his style than most of his actual jokes. when I play him for other people I feel uncomfortable because there aren't a lot of laughs per se, but I like the dude a lot and his character shines through hard. could definitely see it as off putting.
Now, breathing in the faintest dregs of potsmoke while listening to a decent violin/piano piece, I have spontaneously orgasmed.
Two words:
Alcohol, on the other hand, is different. I enjoy drinking in social situations only. It loosens me up (And that's just with a good buzz. Getting wasted is usually never a good idea). As for enhancing things, it usually doesn't.
Psychedelics are interesting to experiment with. They give you a whole new perception on things. This is a double-edged sword, though. Some things will be quite interesting and fun, while others may cause you to freak out. If you are to try these, go for the safer ones and make sure you are in a controlled environment. Also, make sure to clear your day.
As for the creative effect, personally, I've found I am no more creative when under the effect of weed or psychedelics than I am sober. And, actually, have found myself less creative while under the effects of alcohol.
Tetris Attack, though? I'm a fucking deity at that shit while high. It must be the colors. I can get people to play me while sober, but while I'm high? No takers.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Alcohol improves a few things and impairs others imo. With a mild drunk on I'm able to perform at high paced video games much better than usual (Geometry Wars on the 360, The Specialists Half-Life mod,etc.), sex is desensitized a bit (though that has it's upside), and the worst takeout imaginable suddenly becomes fine cuisine that you simply can't get enough of.On the other hand, I'm extremely more likely to say something stupid.
Magic Mushrooms are different. In an attempt to play Super Smash Bros Melee on shrooms, next to no actual playing was done. Two of my buddies put their controllers down after falling to their deaths, I was obsessed with staying alive to the point where I simply very slowly moved back and forth on a platform, and my other friend couldn't get over how FAT Ness is AND OMG HE JUST KEEPS GETTING FATTER AND FATTER WTF.Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon is simply amazing on mushrooms, as is nearly anything by Daft Punk.