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Malstrom (Wii Disruption guy) takes on Tycho!

245

Posts

  • urahonkyurahonky regular Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I might actually buy two copies of this game just to piss off the people that are pissed off about the dedicated server removal.

    urahonky on
  • durandal4532durandal4532 regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Right now, it embarrasses me that I have the time, energy, and money to spend so much of my time doing something fun. If I also argued about the proper way to browse servers, I'd have to start volunteering a lot more.

    God, I should probably volunteer more anyway. Seriously, no one actually gives a shit about this for real right? They're faking it because it's fun to get angry?

    Edit: Oh good lord, I just actually read the quote. I don't care how much you like to get pissy, the sort of people who can frequently buy new games are not the ones getting screwed over by the game industry. They're upper-middle class white males with disposable cash who don't really have to worry about institutions doing anything but attempting to court them. Now if MW2 had some sort of special manufacturing process that screwed over the employees even more, then I might care.

    Edit: I guarantee without even a shred of doubt that no boycott of any single game will ever succeed on any level whatsoever. Gamers have proven time and time again that they just cannot resist. And any actually successful boycott will go under "sales lost to piracy" because you know they're not going to boycott and not still get the game, that would be almost an imposition.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Your logic here is faulty. Some gamers who own ps3/360 might have also a PC (capable of running the game?) but the question you should be asking is of the gamers who have a PC, do they probably also have a 360/ps3? If no, they've lost his sale all together. If yes, you're not going to sell him 2 versions of the same game, so your net gain is nothing, but there is a potential for lost sales.

    Every software offering is going to involve some number of lost sales. They aren't selling any copies to people who only have a Wii, but you're not in here suggesting that they should be marketing a Wii version to make up for those lost sales. The question is not "will any sales be lost" but "will the number of sales lost be larger than the amount of money we would spend by selling this product".
    I don't get what you're trying to say here. The game is what they want, but by losing the game all together, what I mean is by not supporting its sale, they remove incentive for the publisher to make games for the PC in the future. So if the publisher chooses to pull support from the PC platform, PC gamers do indeed lose the game all together.

    Well, the game is clearly not what everyone wants. As I've been saying: if enough people don't want this game (with its lack of servers) then Infinity Ward will take notice of the drop in sales and respond appropriately. The appropriate response will involve marketing surveys and research to discover whether the lack of PC sales was due purely to the lack of a dedicated server offering or if it's symptomatic of a declining interest in PC gaming in their genre. When the case is found to be the former, they will factor that into planning for the next product.

    If, despite the clamor, a large number of PC gamers buy the game anyway then yes, this is the game they want. Or at least it's close enough to satisfy them, meaning that the yelling about servers is just noise.

    Again: it's not like the publisher is operating in vacuum. They know what people are saying about their game and can get a sense of why people are or are not buying their products. If PC sales drop they will find out why rather than just discontinue PC development out of spite or something.



    People in general but geeks in particular seem to frequently get into this mindset where manufacturers are in some kind of individual, one-on-one contest of wills with them. Major publishers of games and developers of electronics hardware don't act out of spite or pride. Sometimes they develop a game that you don't like because that's just the kind of game that the developers are interested in making (see: Zelda: Wind Waker) but they would not allow the developers that latitude unless they were confident that the market does exist (see: Wind Waker's sales figures). Business really is business; it's not some kind of pissing match with individuals or individual communities within the market of potential buyers.

    CptHamilton on
    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    But that's assuming that, despite development, marketing, and middleman cuts, they're not going to make a profit on the PC version anyways, which we both know they very easily will.

    Do we? They might be making only a slim profit margin on that segment, and the money that went into developing the PC version might have been better spent (i.e. get them more money back) on either improving the console versions or invested in other games.

    We do by a number of ways. One and the simplest being, if they didn't make money, they wouldn't be releasing the new one at all. We also know that by the end of 2007, CoD4 sold nearly 400,000 copies on the PC platform, not counting for digital distribution (so the number could actually be much higher. Not as much as the consoles, but not nearly an insignificant amount (in fact, nearly as much as the PS3 version had at that same time).

    If it sells so well on PCs (and you're certain they're making money from that release) then why are you worried about them dumping the PC as a release venue?

    I'm not worried about it for this release, this is backlash against the people saying 'don't like it, don't buy it.'

    It's clearly making money as is.

    The worry about dumping the PC as a release venue comes if masses of people actually DON'T buy it because they don't like the removal of dedicated servers, they may feel there's no reason to release Modern Warfare 3 on the PC.

    It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for PC gamers. If they buy it in droves, they're supporting (or at least not showing they don't support) Infinity ward's decision to remove dedicated servers. If they don't buy it, infinity ward loses incentive to release Modern Warfare 3 on the PC. Neither situation is palatable.

    The alternative? Bitch and moan on the internet about it. Which is what people are doing.

    Dissociater on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    PROTIP: This Malstrom fellow also predicted in October 08 that a ground swell of support would rise up and sweep McCain into office. Yeah...

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    So.

    Where were you, when they came for the dedicated servers?

    Drake on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    PROTIP: This Malstrom fellow also predicted in October 08 that a ground swell of support would rise up and sweep McCain into office. Yeah...
    If you listen to cable news, this could still happen.

    OptimusZed on
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  • RaynagaRaynaga regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I think the mistake you are making is that the company would see reduced sales and say "Whelp, sales are down, guess we're done here!"

    All kinds of market research, focus groups, etc go into these kinds of decisions. The first thing you do as a company when a product doesn't perform as you wanted is to find out why. Then you have to decide if the cause is easily fixed, or if more drastic measures need to be taken. A product being successful or not doesn't happen in a vacuum, and determining the reasons and then correcting them is a key part of any succesful business strategy.

    Look at the X-box, and then the 360. Do you think Microsoft went out of its way to expand its game-base from FPS games with all those RPGs, etc on a whim? Or do you think they did research as to what failings their last product had, and then take steps with the next one to eliminate them?

    Raynaga on
  • durandal4532durandal4532 regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Why not simply get together as a group and write a series of coherent and well-argued e-mails/letters to the people in a position to change the server system? Presumably it would have no effect if the numbers were too low, but if even a percent of the customers request exactly the same thing I'm sure they'd take it into consideration.

    Not one of those goddamn internet petition things though, christ those are ridiculous.

    Edit: If people boycott, IW will find that sales were lost due to piracy.

    I guarantee it.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009

    Well, the game is clearly not what everyone wants. As I've been saying: if enough people don't want this game (with its lack of servers) then Infinity Ward will take notice of the drop in sales and respond appropriately. The appropriate response will involve marketing surveys and research to discover whether the lack of PC sales was due purely to the lack of a dedicated server offering or if it's symptomatic of a declining interest in PC gaming in their genre. When the case is found to be the former, they will factor that into planning for the next product.


    See, now you're mixing up 'the game' with 'the overall product.'

    My example is the same as people saying they Want the iPhone, but don't want to be saddled with AT&T.

    The backlash here (as I noted in my last post), is that if people actually do boycott the PC version of the game, the response might be to pull PC support for the next game, that's not what pc gamers are hoping to accomplish.

    Dissociater on
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009

    Well, the game is clearly not what everyone wants. As I've been saying: if enough people don't want this game (with its lack of servers) then Infinity Ward will take notice of the drop in sales and respond appropriately. The appropriate response will involve marketing surveys and research to discover whether the lack of PC sales was due purely to the lack of a dedicated server offering or if it's symptomatic of a declining interest in PC gaming in their genre. When the case is found to be the former, they will factor that into planning for the next product.


    See, now you're mixing up 'the game' with 'the overall product.'

    My example is the same as people saying they Want the iPhone, but don't want to be saddled with AT&T.

    The backlash here (as I noted in my last post), is that if people actually do boycott the PC version of the game, the response might be to pull PC support for the next game, that's not what pc gamers are hoping to accomplish.

    Which is ignoring the fact that Infinity Ward would expend any effort to discover why people didn't buy their game.

    CptHamilton on
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  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The backlash here (as I noted in my last post), is that if people actually do boycott the PC version of the game, the response might be to pull PC support for the next game, that's not what pc gamers are hoping to accomplish.

    Because you're assuming these game companies don't have any way of knowing why those sales were lost.

    This is a pretty big issue. It's not just on one specific niche forum... it's all over the place. If they noticed lost sales, they would know exactly why there were lost sales.

    Chanus on
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  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Raynaga wrote: »
    I think the mistake you are making is that the company would see reduced sales and say "Whelp, sales are down, guess we're done here!"

    All kinds of market research, focus groups, etc go into these kinds of decisions. The first thing you do as a company when a product doesn't perform as you wanted is to find out why. Then you have to decide if the cause is easily fixed, or if more drastic measures need to be taken.

    That's certainly the kind of response people would hope for. But the fear still exists, simply because there are other options for the company to turn towards. By pulling PC support, they don't lose all profit, because they still have PS3 and 360. It might not be the best, and most even handed response, but the possibility still exists that the company DOES say 'whelp, we're done here!'

    Dissociater on
  • RaynagaRaynaga regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009


    See, now you're mixing up 'the game' with 'the overall product.'

    My example is the same as people saying they Want the iPhone, but don't want to be saddled with AT&T.

    The backlash here (as I noted in my last post), is that if people actually do boycott the PC version of the game, the response might be to pull PC support for the next game, that's not what pc gamers are hoping to accomplish.



    And again, that won't happen. A company isn't going to drop a potential client base without finding out why they aren't succeeding with that client first. It will only get dropped if the steps needed to correct the issue cost more than the potential sales that base would generate.

    EDIT: Ok, this thread is moving way too fast.

    Raynaga on
  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009

    Well, the game is clearly not what everyone wants. As I've been saying: if enough people don't want this game (with its lack of servers) then Infinity Ward will take notice of the drop in sales and respond appropriately. The appropriate response will involve marketing surveys and research to discover whether the lack of PC sales was due purely to the lack of a dedicated server offering or if it's symptomatic of a declining interest in PC gaming in their genre. When the case is found to be the former, they will factor that into planning for the next product.


    See, now you're mixing up 'the game' with 'the overall product.'

    My example is the same as people saying they Want the iPhone, but don't want to be saddled with AT&T.

    The backlash here (as I noted in my last post), is that if people actually do boycott the PC version of the game, the response might be to pull PC support for the next game, that's not what pc gamers are hoping to accomplish.

    Which is ignoring the fact that Infinity Ward would expend any effort to discover why people didn't buy their game.

    But why let it get to that point, when people can just bitch and complain over the internet and hopefully avoid the whole situation in the first place?

    Especially since, it's probably going to sell like gangbusters on all platforms anyways.

    Dissociater on
  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Raynaga wrote: »


    See, now you're mixing up 'the game' with 'the overall product.'

    My example is the same as people saying they Want the iPhone, but don't want to be saddled with AT&T.

    The backlash here (as I noted in my last post), is that if people actually do boycott the PC version of the game, the response might be to pull PC support for the next game, that's not what pc gamers are hoping to accomplish.



    And again, that won't happen. A company isn't going to drop a potential client base without finding out why they aren't succeeding with that client first. It will only get dropped if the steps needed to correct the issue cost more than the potential sales that base would generate.

    EDIT: Ok, this thread is moving way too fast.

    It's not unprecedented. As you may recall, CoD 3 wasn't released on PC because they thought enough money wouldn't be made there. Despite the good sales of CoD 2.

    And yeah, it's moving pretty fast. haha.

    Dissociater on
  • RaynagaRaynaga regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Especially since, it's probably going to sell like gangbusters on all platforms anyways.

    Which is why the whole point is moot. The amount of people pissed enough to not buy it are hugely dwarfed by the amount of bullshit noise on the topic. Its a paper tiger of an issue.

    Raynaga on
  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    But why let it get to that point, when people can just bitch and complain over the internet and hopefully avoid the whole situation in the first place?

    Especially since, it's probably going to sell like gangbusters on all platforms anyways.

    Because if all you're willing to do is bitch about something, you're a waste of carbon.

    Chanus on
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  • durandal4532durandal4532 regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    The backlash here (as I noted in my last post), is that if people actually do boycott the PC version of the game, the response might be to pull PC support for the next game, that's not what pc gamers are hoping to accomplish.

    Because you're assuming these game companies don't have any way of knowing why those sales were lost.

    This is a pretty big issue. It's not just on one specific niche forum... it's all over the place. If they noticed lost sales, they would know exactly why there were lost sales.

    The thing is, think about what will actually happen when hardcore gamers boycott something.

    I'll give you a hint, it starts with "piracy" and actually it's just piracy. Every single person boycotting the game will, in order to really stick it to the man good, pirate a copy of the game and play on their own servers.

    The inquiry into why sales were lost will come up with "PC users pirated their copies".

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Especially since, it's probably going to sell like gangbusters on all platforms anyways.

    Which is why the whole point is moot. The amount of people pissed enough to not buy it are hugely dwarfed by the amount of bullshit noise on the topic. Its a paper tiger of an issue.

    It's why people are complaining as much as they are, because they don't want to support the design decision surrounding multiplayer, but know that the small amount of people willing to boycott the issue isn't large enough to change their minds.

    For the record, I have no horse in this race, I have a top end PC, and a PS3, and an XBOX 360, and have no desire to buy this game at all. But I do think the removal of dedicated servers is a stupid decision.

    Dissociater on
  • ChanusChanus Ribbit! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The thing is, think about what will actually happen when hardcore gamers boycott something.

    I'll give you a hint, it starts with "piracy" and actually it's just piracy. Every single person boycotting the game will, in order to really stick it to the man good, pirate a copy of the game and play on their own servers.

    The inquiry into why sales were lost will come up with "PC users pirated their copies".

    If you're boycotting something but partaking anyway, you're an idiot and all you really want is someone to kiss your bottom and tell you mommy loves you.

    Chanus on
    **Winner Softest and Most Comfy Hugs Award Summer 2018**

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  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    The thing is, think about what will actually happen when hardcore gamers boycott something.

    I'll give you a hint, it starts with "piracy" and actually it's just piracy. Every single person boycotting the game will, in order to really stick it to the man good, pirate a copy of the game and play on their own servers.

    The inquiry into why sales were lost will come up with "PC users pirated their copies".

    If you're boycotting something but partaking anyway, you're an idiot and all you really want is someone to kiss your bottom and tell you mommy loves you.

    Your scathing reply will surely change the minds of pirates everywhere.

    Dissociater on
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    The thing is, think about what will actually happen when hardcore gamers boycott something.

    I'll give you a hint, it starts with "piracy" and actually it's just piracy. Every single person boycotting the game will, in order to really stick it to the man good, pirate a copy of the game and play on their own servers.

    The inquiry into why sales were lost will come up with "PC users pirated their copies".

    If you're boycotting something but partaking anyway, you're an idiot and all you really want is someone to kiss your bottom and tell you mommy loves you.

    Your scathing reply will surely change the minds of pirates everywhere.

    Bitching and moaning on the internet isn't going to change the minds of anyone who didn't already care about dedicated servers.

    KalTorak on
  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    The thing is, think about what will actually happen when hardcore gamers boycott something.

    I'll give you a hint, it starts with "piracy" and actually it's just piracy. Every single person boycotting the game will, in order to really stick it to the man good, pirate a copy of the game and play on their own servers.

    The inquiry into why sales were lost will come up with "PC users pirated their copies".

    If you're boycotting something but partaking anyway, you're an idiot and all you really want is someone to kiss your bottom and tell you mommy loves you.

    Your scathing reply will surely change the minds of pirates everywhere.

    Bitching and moaning on the internet isn't going to change the minds of anyone who didn't already care about dedicated servers.

    It works for World of Warcraft complainers.

    Dissociater on
  • durandal4532durandal4532 regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    The thing is, think about what will actually happen when hardcore gamers boycott something.

    I'll give you a hint, it starts with "piracy" and actually it's just piracy. Every single person boycotting the game will, in order to really stick it to the man good, pirate a copy of the game and play on their own servers.

    The inquiry into why sales were lost will come up with "PC users pirated their copies".

    If you're boycotting something but partaking anyway, you're an idiot and all you really want is someone to kiss your bottom and tell you mommy loves you.

    You're also self-righteous enough to not think so. Honestly though, I am absolutely certain that not one man in ten of the people stating they'll boycott is actually going to stick to it and not pirate. PC gamers at the moment generally think of piracy as a form of boycott.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Especially since, it's probably going to sell like gangbusters on all platforms anyways.

    Which is why the whole point is moot. The amount of people pissed enough to not buy it are hugely dwarfed by the amount of bullshit noise on the topic. Its a paper tiger of an issue.

    It's why people are complaining as much as they are, because they don't want to support the design decision surrounding multiplayer, but know that the small amount of people willing to boycott the issue isn't large enough to change their minds.

    For the record, I have no horse in this race, I have a top end PC, and a PS3, and an XBOX 360, and have no desire to buy this game at all. But I do think the removal of dedicated servers is a stupid decision.

    I'm pretty much with you. I just think that the response is stupid. People get all butthurt about it and stop treating it like the business decision that it is.

    People bitching on the internet who are going to buy the game anyway are never going to convince anyone of anything. I could probably find three million gamers who would agree with me that Gears of War 3 would be better if it comes with a free blowjob. We're going to buy the game anyway, but man that BJ would rock. We're not going to get it because we're going to give them our money BJ or no. An organized response telling Infinity Ward: "we want dedicated servers; this is how many sales you are going to lose, minimum, by not supporting our desire" would work, provided that it was a large enough number to justify the cost. Any variety of "Whaaa, I'm buying your game but I want stuff that's not in it!" is going to fall, eventually, on the deaf ears of the accounting department.

    CptHamilton on
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  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    The thing is, think about what will actually happen when hardcore gamers boycott something.

    I'll give you a hint, it starts with "piracy" and actually it's just piracy. Every single person boycotting the game will, in order to really stick it to the man good, pirate a copy of the game and play on their own servers.

    The inquiry into why sales were lost will come up with "PC users pirated their copies".

    If you're boycotting something but partaking anyway, you're an idiot and all you really want is someone to kiss your bottom and tell you mommy loves you.

    You're also self-righteous enough to not think so. Honestly though, I am absolutely certain that not one man in ten of the people stating they'll boycott is actually going to stick to it and not pirate. PC gamers at the moment generally think of piracy as a form of boycott.

    Not only that, but since the lack of dedicated servers is supposedly an anti-piracy measure, and since pirates will almost assuredly find a way around that, the only person it hurts are the people who buy the game legit.

    It's the DRM argument all over again!

    Dissociater on
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    The thing is, think about what will actually happen when hardcore gamers boycott something.

    I'll give you a hint, it starts with "piracy" and actually it's just piracy. Every single person boycotting the game will, in order to really stick it to the man good, pirate a copy of the game and play on their own servers.

    The inquiry into why sales were lost will come up with "PC users pirated their copies".

    If you're boycotting something but partaking anyway, you're an idiot and all you really want is someone to kiss your bottom and tell you mommy loves you.

    Your scathing reply will surely change the minds of pirates everywhere.

    Bitching and moaning on the internet isn't going to change the minds of anyone who didn't already care about dedicated servers.

    It works for World of Warcraft complainers.

    WoW subscribers pay a monthly fee and can stop paying whenever they want. Blizzard has a more direct incentive to keep them happy.

    KalTorak on
  • DissociaterDissociater regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Especially since, it's probably going to sell like gangbusters on all platforms anyways.

    Which is why the whole point is moot. The amount of people pissed enough to not buy it are hugely dwarfed by the amount of bullshit noise on the topic. Its a paper tiger of an issue.

    It's why people are complaining as much as they are, because they don't want to support the design decision surrounding multiplayer, but know that the small amount of people willing to boycott the issue isn't large enough to change their minds.

    For the record, I have no horse in this race, I have a top end PC, and a PS3, and an XBOX 360, and have no desire to buy this game at all. But I do think the removal of dedicated servers is a stupid decision.

    I'm pretty much with you. I just think that the response is stupid. People get all butthurt about it and stop treating it like the business decision that it is.

    People bitching on the internet who are going to buy the game anyway are never going to convince anyone of anything. I could probably find three million gamers who would agree with me that Gears of War 3 would be better if it comes with a free blowjob. We're going to buy the game anyway, but man that BJ would rock. We're not going to get it because we're going to give them our money BJ or no. An organized response telling Infinity Ward: "we want dedicated servers; this is how many sales you are going to lose, minimum, by not supporting our desire" would work, provided that it was a large enough number to justify the cost. Any variety of "Whaaa, I'm buying your game but I want stuff that's not in it!" is going to fall, eventually, on the deaf ears of the accounting department.

    It's a strange cycle. I don't think anyone in the MW2 thread on PA thinks that some big up in infinity ward is going to wander into the thread and say 'gosh, better change this!'

    It's more like, they hope that some shmo with a blog or gaming website's going to take note, and write an article. Some people on another thread read the blog and get pissed and the argument starts again on another forum. The cycle continues until there's enough press, blogs and gaming websites writing about something so that infinity ward finally does notice.

    Especially because it's not that they want something that's not in the game (like a free BJ), but because it was something that was in the previous game, and nearly every other similar game from the past decade.

    Dissociater on
  • NewresNewres regular Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    psychotix wrote: »
    The MW2 debacle is just part of a larger issue. The current feeling among PC gamers that games are being consolized and thus sucking, and it's fairly true.

    It will sort it self out a couple generations of video cards later and once DX10/11 take over and leave consoles in the dust. But till then expect a lot more grinding of teeth and bitching.

    Well, yeah... don't buy the shitty, console-ized games and maybe they'll realize people don't want to buy shitty, console-ized games.

    If people keep buying them, it has this weird way of reinforcing the idea that people want to play them.

    This might be a bit off-topic but I really do not see how the so called "consolizing" is somehow making games less complex. A simplified control scheme does not necessarily mean a simple game. You can play chess just fine with even a one button joystick, and I do not think anyone would argue that it is not complex.

    Even with gameplay elements: simplifying things does not necessarily mean less depth. I probably would not like all my rpgs to have a thirst and hunger meter that need refilling (altough in some cases these does add to the gameplay).

    More on topic: I am pretty sure voting with you wallet is the most effective answer to it. If enough people skip on the game they will feel it in their pockets, if not, well than the issue was not that big to honest.

    Newres on
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  • psychotixpsychotix __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2009
    Newres wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    psychotix wrote: »
    The MW2 debacle is just part of a larger issue. The current feeling among PC gamers that games are being consolized and thus sucking, and it's fairly true.

    It will sort it self out a couple generations of video cards later and once DX10/11 take over and leave consoles in the dust. But till then expect a lot more grinding of teeth and bitching.

    Well, yeah... don't buy the shitty, console-ized games and maybe they'll realize people don't want to buy shitty, console-ized games.

    If people keep buying them, it has this weird way of reinforcing the idea that people want to play them.

    This might be a bit off-topic but I really do not see how the so called "consolizing" is somehow making games less complex. A simplified control scheme does not necessarily mean a simple game. You can play chess just fine with even a one button joystick, and I do not think anyone would argue that it is not complex.

    Even with gameplay elements: simplifying things does not necessarily mean less depth. I probably would not like all my rpgs to have a thirst and hunger meter that need refilling (altough in some cases these does add to the gameplay).

    More on topic: I am pretty sure voting with you wallet is the most effective answer to it. If enough people skip on the game they will feel it in their pockets, if not, well than the issue was not that big to honest.

    It's not just gameplay. The menus are consolized, they pushing things graphically, and in other ways, that could take advantage of faster PCs, the online options are dropping as well.

    It's easy to see when you compare PC only titles, to cross platform releases.

    And that's the main issue. UT3 failed horribly because it was consolized and rejected. EPIC turned around and said now they are all about consoles... that's fine cause nobody is buying PC games from them after that debacle.

    psychotix on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    The backlash here (as I noted in my last post), is that if people actually do boycott the PC version of the game, the response might be to pull PC support for the next game, that's not what pc gamers are hoping to accomplish.

    Because you're assuming these game companies don't have any way of knowing why those sales were lost.

    This is a pretty big issue. It's not just on one specific niche forum... it's all over the place. If they noticed lost sales, they would know exactly why there were lost sales.

    Piracy, right?

    mrt144 on
  • KastanjKastanj __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2009
    Telling game developers to not do anything about piracy is as stupid as giving them carte blanche to impose any measures to prevent it at the expense of paying customers - the developers might end up hurting themselves.

    Likewise when it comes to altering the exhaustiveness of your product and doing what you can to bring in more revenue - it is understandable that it is difficult to get earnings what with all the piracy and the increasing demands from gamers, but we must not forget the factor of people being a bit fed up with the workings of the industry and the output of developers. The customer base will dwindle, developers will seek more revenue while creating the same product (rather than creating a product people genuinely want) and this will shrink the base further. It isn't sustainable.

    Kastanj on
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  • FyreWulffFyreWulff regular Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    1) Dedicated servers do not equal PC gaming. All those people playing RTSes are not using them at all and never have, that I can think of.

    2) The company isn't "trying to get away" with something. Cut that conspiracy theory bullshit. If Infinity Ward doesn't want to implement dedicated servers, they don't have to. It's their game. You can't force them to do anything. It's not your fucking game.

    3) If dedicated servers were actually critical to PC gaming, they wouldn't have been cut. Developers and publishers have actual statistics and numbers, not emotional self-inflated bullshit, that they can make decisions with. It seems they already know that most people don't care about how the game is actually hosted.

    4)
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I really, really want the hardcore vs casual "argument" to die.

    FyreWulff on
  • XaquinXaquin regular Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Torso Boy wrote: »
    Tycho said, "If you are angry...Do not buy it."

    So I guess...welcome to a consumer economy? Get out there and vote with your wallets, or in this case, don't.

    I think the main problem is that there is virtually no information to base the purchase off of. We have an assurance that IWnet will work .... from IW

    most people probably don't know there won't be dedicated servers, and when they go out to buy the sequel to the game they really enjoyed they'll probably be a bit surprised and/or dismayed when they find that multiplayer is shot to shit.

    Good luck to them getting a refund on a PC game =/

    Xaquin on
  • XaquinXaquin regular Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    The backlash here (as I noted in my last post), is that if people actually do boycott the PC version of the game, the response might be to pull PC support for the next game, that's not what pc gamers are hoping to accomplish.

    Because you're assuming these game companies don't have any way of knowing why those sales were lost.

    This is a pretty big issue. It's not just on one specific niche forum... it's all over the place. If they noticed lost sales, they would know exactly why there were lost sales.

    I read about this on CNN today

    Xaquin on
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Torso Boy wrote: »
    Tycho said, "If you are angry...Do not buy it."

    So I guess...welcome to a consumer economy? Get out there and vote with your wallets, or in this case, don't.

    I think the main problem is that there is virtually no information to base the purchase off of. We have an assurance that IWnet will work .... from IW

    most people probably don't know there won't be dedicated servers, and when they go out to buy the sequel to the game they really enjoyed they'll probably be a bit surprised and/or dismayed when they find that multiplayer is shot to shit.

    Good luck to them getting a refund on a PC game =/

    Wait for more adventurous souls to brave the perils for you. Read their reports. Problem solved.

    Fiaryn on
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  • XaquinXaquin regular Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Torso Boy wrote: »
    Tycho said, "If you are angry...Do not buy it."

    So I guess...welcome to a consumer economy? Get out there and vote with your wallets, or in this case, don't.

    I think the main problem is that there is virtually no information to base the purchase off of. We have an assurance that IWnet will work .... from IW

    most people probably don't know there won't be dedicated servers, and when they go out to buy the sequel to the game they really enjoyed they'll probably be a bit surprised and/or dismayed when they find that multiplayer is shot to shit.

    Good luck to them getting a refund on a PC game =/

    Wait for more adventurous souls to brave the perils for you. Read their reports. Problem solved.

    That's what I plan on doing, but it won't help people who buy it expecting an online gaming experience like MW1.

    and since there is no indication on the packaging that there will no longer be dedicated servers, but local hosts, I'm sure a lot of people won't be getting what they expect.

    Xaquin on
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User
    edited October 2009
    I am really annoyed that the hat I bought doesn't have the right peak in it, how fucking annoying is that!? Why should I just buy these hats without peaks in? How will that show these hat companies that they should stop making hats with this kind of peak on it?! Idiot people saying I should just put up with this item made by a company how they want to make it with no input from me, telling them to change all their hard work because if they don't i'll feel impotent and do nothing.

    Johannen on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Johannen wrote: »
    I am really annoyed that the hat I bought doesn't have the right peak in it, how fucking annoying is that!? Why should I just buy these hats without peaks in? How will that show these hat companies that they should stop making hats with this kind of peak on it?! Idiot people saying I should just put up with this item made by a company how they want to make it with no input from me, telling them to change all their hard work because if they don't i'll feel impotent and do nothing.

    See, while I get what you are saying, the analogy is somewhat unfortunate, because now I just envision a Polar Bear in a Klan uniform. I would've gone with jacket/lapels.

    Fencingsax on
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