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Posts

  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    You could also try using harsher darks on the ridges of the cookie and saturating the color a bit more.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    cool thanks ken!
    yes i see what you mean about the nose
    i think it's because i zoomed in too close and nitpicked way too much
    I will take another pass at it

    but i did find this method worked better for me than in the past.
    this time i did the grissaile (is that the right word?) method where you do the underpainting in greyscale to get values, then do a color overlay
    I liked it!

    beavotron on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    Things I thought it was:

    A third lip
    An orange rind
    A tongue, perhaps affected by Jaundice

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    Paintover...only changed one thing I actually think is a major thing, the rest is just subtle dickery.
    beavs_humble.jpg
    (man I could have done this a lot better looking at it again but ehhhhh I already uploaded it so whatever)


    Ok the big thing that bugs me is that you made the whites of the eyes and the area of the sideplane of the nose behind the sunglasses a lot brighter than you see in the ref. This ends up flattening that area of the face, and popping the eye forward, which makes things a bit more cartoonish than realistic.

    The more subtle bits are bringing in more blacks to the back of the head area, warming up the colors a bit (though you may have cooled it down from the ref intentionally- the ref colors are sorta intense when placed against a neutral BG), and redesigned the mouth area a bit.

    The ref is kinda ambiguous in defining that area, so I designed the nose cast shadow to be more obvious and crisp falling onto the muzzle, and played up the core shadows in the transition between the front plane and the side plane, and made the cast shadow from the cookie/lips more crisp so it doesn't get entangled with the form shadows in that area. The sort of shadow ambiguity you've got in that area in your pretty much is what's going on in the ref, but take that ambiguity into paint, and it's not going to be the strongest possible read- that's when you need to sort of nudge things around a bit to get it to work in paint.

    I also tried to redesign the area where the part underneath the bottom lip meets the chin- in yours, you've defined it as a single curved line, which flattens the form a bit. I broke that up into a curve and a straight line, to show the planes a bit better.

    Proportions and everything look nice though, it feels like it just could use a few small tweaks to really bring it up from 'pretty dang good' to 'pretty damn good' if you get me.

    also
    is humble a leader of a south american drug cartel or what

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2009
    Drug cartel leader?

    Dude is straight up unibombering there.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    i love you bacon
    with all my heart

    and hilarious, munkus because he didn't want me to use this ref because he felt it was unibomberesque

    beavotron on
  • PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I think he looks a bit too warm.

    PROX on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    fixed!
    any better?
    I am keeping things still a bit looser than your paintover bacon because I get the feeling based on the description that it should be realism, but still a little loose
    his examples were all super loose.
    I need to learn how to tighten things up the way you do though geeez
    I always seem to leave this stuff in a semi-rough state.

    ryan_portrait2.jpg

    and for comparison, original:
    ryan_portrait.jpg

    beavotron on
  • PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Form shadows and cast shadows are different. I've circled the areas. Makes those shadows softer. Form shadows are soft, cast shadows are crisp.

    Also Think of the highlight of his nose as a side of a triangle on the ball of his nose.
    ryan_portrait3.jpg

    edit: try and define his shirt area better. not detail but paint them as sort of polygons facing a lightsource.

    PROX on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    thanks prox!
    i updated, refresh
    I am going to keep the shirt kind of loose and rough though, as well as the hair because of the nature of the project

    beavotron on
  • PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Doh, i did some scraps of paintovers:


    paintsover.jpg

    You should try and keep the original shape of the shirt. Loose is fine, but you're not indicating the geometry well enough so it becomes distractingly flat.

    I think the rim light I put on the nose was too strong, but you should put something there, to round out the nose. he has a bit of it if you zoom in on the photo.

    PROX on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    oh god its a loomdun.

    Okay so anyways what concerns me more about this drawing is the major errors that occured because of being flattened out. The left half is pulled out to much and the right half is pushed out to much, The main problem as to why this happened is because of the glasses, you used the glasses as a reference to the placement of the face rather then the eyes, and because you made the glasses slightly to big it pulled out the overall face

    ugh I got to lazy with it so I just left the black line to show you stuff

    omg.jpg

    okay so the next part is your looking at it and you designed a shadow under the lip, the problem is your working from a fairly poor reference as far as the lip goes I re-designed it for you but to explain what is happening, is the lip is bulging out, that really isn't a shadow thats just the lip blending in with the face, the picture doesn't need to be a 100% accurate as far as terms go with things like this but you can re-design things purposely (unlike the stretched out eyes and face) to help create a more beleivable face.

    Also While the picture sais one eyebrow is slightly higher, I created both eyebrows in equal height merely so it sais this person knows how to draw eyebrows, and not thats what the picture said. Because no one is going to see this picture but you, actually I did a lot of things but i'm really getting lazy with the words and I doubt what I am saying anyone even gives a shit because that usually seems to be the routine around here but blah blah blah heres a picture

    ohhmygoddd.jpg\

    I got to lazy to shrink the glasses and fix the eye and fix the hair but ughh oh well

    also I changed the highlight of the nose because it just looked like you were putting sun tan lotion on him

    edit againn: also I gave him a mandible and changed the variation of line shadow and there was like 5 other things I did but I cant even remember

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    Well, it's more sharply defined, but the thing to look for here is edge control and how it contributes to the form.

    Here's your new version put up against my paintover.
    beavs_humble2.jpg

    In yours, the edges are getting confused with each other- the edge of the cast shadow of the glasses is the same firmness as the form shadow of the cheek, the bottom edge of the cast shadow of the cookie flows into the the form shadow of the chin. Also, edges of the form shadow of the face are not consistent with each other, making them two distinct 2-d areas, rather than one area broken by a cast shadow.

    When applying edges try to think about what the purpose of that edge is. If you look at mine, the form shadow edge is defined by one simple soft edge. The cast shadows are a crisp edge. As a result, the form appears continuous and solid, rather than two-dimensional. You can tell where the cast shadow of the glasses (crisp) meets the form edge of the face (soft), purely by the change in edge quality.

    It's easy when working from photoref to get caught up in rendering every piece separately, rather than putting your effort into figuring out how the form functions. The ambiguity of form and often unclear edge definition in anything but very good photoref makes putting conscious effort into how you design your edges essential, if you want to get a clear read of form. You need to make the form more clear and more understandable than the photograph.

    This is a big part of the reason that it is often very obvious when people are working from photoref and not from life- simply replicating 2d shapes, rather than presenting a coherent representation of the 3d form.



    Gist handout on edges: http://www.meadowpaint.com/week%204_book.qxd.pdf

    EDIT: How come every time someone does a paintover of something, like 40 other people immediately come in and dogpile paintovers on the OP.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    I dont know I saw everyone being concerned with color and what not and trying to be really technical and was just thinking sighhh why isn't anyone pointing out the placement or the choice to completely follow the picture. then I mindlessly flopped on the pile of people

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Thanks again bacon! I see what you mean and think we should make a forum compendium of your advice.
    Loomdun, I think you have a tendancy to just assume that there is a perfect way in your mind that a portrait or a figure should look and you base your crits in that not on whether or not something is physially possible. In your paintover, you completely got rid of the bulge of his lower lip, and made it just look like he's gently holding a cookie between his lips. People's mouths can jut our you know, ryan's facial expressions are always really exagerrated and he has a ton of character and it's nice to capture that Ina drawing especially for someone like me who is frankly more concerned with giving a drawing character than making an absolutely flawless down to every single muscle photorealistic rendering.

    beavotron on
  • D-RobeD-Robe Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    What kind of cookie is it?
    I know it's not really important, but now that I'm wondering I know it's going to drive me crazy.
    My best guess is Peanut Butter or maybe a Snickerdoodle.

    D-Robe on
    Cheese.
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    i think it's an arrowroot
    or "digestive" if you don't live in canadatown

    beavotron on
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    EDIT: How come every time someone does a paintover of something, like 40 other people immediately come in and dogpile paintovers on the OP.

    People really only seem to do this to Beavo.

    Honestly I think you picked a crappy picture to work from and your painting feels blurry overall to me. Find some hard edges and make some bold moves. It (understandably) lacks the confidence of your cartoonery. Also you have elongated his face a bit...which is happening in the photo because of the cookie or cracker or whatever. But in your painting it looks like a cookie or cracker was jammed into an elongated face, rather than a face that was elongated by a cookie or cracker.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    k bacon, here's another go at fixing those cast vs. soft shadows, also i added the little light to the tip of the nose like prox suggested last night?
    getting warmer?

    this is such a great exercise for me ps. thanks guys :)
    ryan_portrait3.jpg

    edit: cake i totally picked a crap picture and i am regretting it :(
    i'll probably stop picking at this one soon and move onto a better reference.

    beavotron on
  • PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    fix teh nostril bumpsss. It looks like his muzzle is caving in.

    PROX on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    beavotron wrote: »
    Thanks again bacon! I see what you mean and think we should make a forum compendium of your advice.
    Loomdun, I think you have a tendancy to just assume that there is a perfect way in your mind that a portrait or a figure should look and you base your crits in that not on whether or not something is physially possible. In your paintover, you completely got rid of the bulge of his lower lip, and made it just look like he's gently holding a cookie between his lips. People's mouths can jut our you know, ryan's facial expressions are always really exagerrated and he has a ton of character and it's nice to capture that Ina drawing especially for someone like me who is frankly more concerned with giving a drawing character than making an absolutely flawless down to every single muscle photorealistic rendering.

    yah that was the point, I took it away because it was a over all muddy part of the picture, it looks a tad messy when applied on a picture so I thought it would feel better if slightly under exaggerated because theres so little information to work with, its a mix of shadow and lip, but that makes perfect sense to if your shooting just for more emphasis of character. The problem is then how would you handle the picture to emphasis this and fix the strange dark line that is still there then? I down played it because it was a paintover and that was the fastest solution to showing a fix, but it can easily be slightly altered in the other way to.

    I think if you really wanted to add that then the best choice would be working with multiple references

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • TamTam Le Buggeur Risible Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    just wanna say

    it's Unabomber
    much improved beavo

    I think there's still some muddiness with the values in the forehead?

    Tam on
  • KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    HOT DAMN

    i like these brushes you linked to.

    Kendeathwalker on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2009
    tell ryan that he is a cute boy for me <3

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    Much nicer. :^:

    Now bust out some well-thought out edgework in your life drawing classes and watch the people around you weep with jealousy.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Or go into a bitter contemptuous rage (which is mostly what I see).

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • D-RobeD-Robe Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    That's what I do.
    Way more manly than crying.

    D-Robe on
    Cheese.
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    cakemikz wrote: »
    Or go into a bitter contemptuous rage (which is mostly what I see).

    hahah niccceee

    beavotron on
  • humblehumble Registered User
    edited November 2009
    tell ryan that he is a cute boy for me <3

    thats actually a real bad picture of me

    but thanks

    <3

    humble on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    humble wrote: »
    tell ryan that he is a cute boy for me <3

    thats actually a real bad picture of me

    but thanks

    <3
    this is my boyfriend being cocky on the internet
    "oh you ain't seen nothin' yet bebby"

    beavotron on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    ehhh hes okay I guess

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • humblehumble Registered User
    edited November 2009
    beavotron wrote: »
    humble wrote: »
    tell ryan that he is a cute boy for me <3

    thats actually a real bad picture of me

    but thanks

    <3
    this is my boyfriend being cocky on the internet
    "oh you ain't seen nothin' yet bebby"

    i was also pretty drunk at the time of posting this

    humble on
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    okay, I noticed one thing, and then I noticed another thing, and ended up spending more time on this post than I intended. mainly: you added more of a tip to the nose than is there, and adding in the eyelid pushed the right eye more right than it is in the reference.

    also, comparing the photo to the last version, the biggest thing I notice is that the painting doesn't grasp the forms around the mouth from a 3/4 view. the mass is lost in the suggestive strokes that you use. I think bacon changed it in his paintover to be more accurate--I'm mainly talking about the left side of the mouth.

    I don't know if this is intentional though. I traced the photo and put it on the painting (and on on the actual photo) to point out the actual shapes of the face. the red lines don't really help you see the forms around the mouth, but the basic point is there. all the shapes around the mouth need more mass.

    I was wondering while looking at this if sometimes a certain difference between the reference and the painting is worth pointing out, because it may have been intentional, but I figure I'll point them out in case you didn't notice them.

    I think it would benefit from adding some sharp textures to mimic the texture of his skin, such as the stubble. right now, the brush softness detracts from the realism. also, more contrast probably wouldn't hurt in that regard.

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • CristovalCristoval Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    There is quality stuff going on in this thread, as per usual!

    Cristoval on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    WIP of another redraw for the redraw thread:
    saddragon_wip.jpg

    and here's the first one i did which is already in the thread:
    peopleskinhat_redraw.jpg

    crits appreciated on the dragon

    beavotron on
  • PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    wars the originals?

    PROX on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    oh sorry
    this is the original from 2000 or 2001 or something
    draggy.jpg

    beavotron on
  • PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    The Eeyore of dragons.

    "I suppose I could have kidnapped a maiden today, but I'd probably get slain at the door."

    PROX on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    hahaha yes essentially

    beavotron on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    more work:
    saddragon_wip2.jpg

    beavotron on
This discussion has been closed.