I can understand why they gave Wolverine over to Daken. He's got like five ongoings including the new one by Aaron that came out at the same time Wolverine became Dark Wolverine. But giving Ms. Marvel to Karla and then having this War of the Marvels crap consume the last four issues was just gratuitous and wrong. I see no point in focusing on this awful monster of a character in a non-mini, in the whole Carol exploding but then getting better crap, or in the fact that over the last year there was a fundamental story of Carol that has never and will never get to be told instead.
How do you not tell the story of someone who's had everything that they spent their entire adult life fighing for turned backwards on her and turn on her. How do you not tell the story of someone who had their life ruined branded a traitor against the very government and society that she's fought and (technically) died for because they were politically inconvenient? I mean, the Dark Reign parallels to RL are so transparent that it amazes me that no one saw fit to even point out the RL parallel where she suffers this fate and then has it explode about a million times worse than RL.
That and her basically being background scenery in NA. I don't get that. I mean, I know Bendis loves Clint (which is why he does such awful things to him. It's to make his triumphs that much greater or something. I can't go into it now). But that's that and NA's slow as fuck pacing has dragged his meltdown on long enough. Meanwhile Carol's been on the sidelines when she's historically had to act and cowboyed the fuck up to take charge and lead. It's not like she's the only one who's been a commander before.
Oh, wait. She is.
The whole post-SI dynamic has been wacky in that putting Clint in the leadership role is like making a chimp the captain of an oil tanker. You know it's going to end in disaster, but the question is "how badly."
Now that I've actually caught up and read the last year's worth of Ms. Marvels I just can't stand the fact that I'm pretty much in the minority on this. And it annoys me to think that the book sells well (I read the September sales figures on CBR yesterday. There was an almost 20% jump in sales from #45 to 46 to ~45,000 copies) and is about to hit issue #50 when most books won't and her previous solo book only got halfway to that.
On a separate note, I'm a Silver Ager at heart when it comes to supers especially. I don't like what I've seen in Marvel books in this last year especially. It's not the violence, per se. I revel in it at times and see its necessity in Vertigo books, but there's something offputting in the indiscriminate and casual sex and violence being injected into these books in the name of realism. And DC's just as bad. When I read last week's Superman and saw Gen. Lane's base filled with dead soldiers from Luthor's and (someone else)'s escape I just looked at it like "Why?" This is like the Image/Image-inspired upsmanship shit that drove me off.
At least I'll have the Marvel Adventures line, which doesn't get to rely on that sex/violence crutch but still churns out excellent stories every month.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
(in my defense, it was right when I started buying monthlies, and I had bought the first issue, didn't have money for the while, and then bought all the issues to catch up)
God, I hate that page. How does Jones still get work?
Also, am I the only person who hates the use of really lazy onomatopoeia like "gasp," "sigh," "groan," and so on? I always prefer the way writers like Morrison do them, where sighs are written as, "Hhh," and so on.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
I liked Bruce Jones' Hulk run, everything up to that story with Mike Deodato where Hulk was fighting little rat hulks or something. It was something different with a character I've never cared for.
I recall hating the stuff Jones did with JR Jr on the Hulk. It seemed really incomprehensible at the time I read it, with people getting shot in the head and coming back to life, and other such weirdness.
And didn't he write that story where the Absorbing Man began possessing people? I didn't care for that one either.
Yeah I liked Jones' Hulk run too. However I read it all in trade format and I shudder to think what it was like for the people reading it as it came out since it dragged on way longer than it needed to.
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I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
I liked that Absorbing Man story mainly because it was only 50 cents to try out (remember when Marvel actually tried to get people to pick up books that way?) the first issue and nice Leandro Fernandez art. For someone who only knew about Absorbing Man from an issue where Daredevil beat him in Joe Kelly's run, I had no real idea what he could do.
I just liked how he made Hulk on the run seem something more than the army going after him and he could somewhat control the Hulk with zen practice, and the JR jr art didn't hurt. It also had that nice effect where you never saw that much of the Hulk, so when he finally went crazy against Abomination around #50 it was worth it.
I really liked some of the Jones Hulk, but some bits (like the Absorbing Man, and the arc with Iron Man) were just horrible and could have been purged without hurting the overall arc. And then the moment it was over, the next writer sauntered in and wiped out absolutely everything that had come before it with "it was all a dream". Bah.
I thought it was rather odd how Absorbing Man goes from "I shall possess you with the zen power of my mind" in Incredible Hulk to "drugstore cowboy" in Marvel Knight's Spider-man.
I think the drugstore cowboy version was more accurate though.
I really liked some of the Jones Hulk, but some bits (like the Absorbing Man, and the arc with Iron Man) were just horrible and could have been purged without hurting the overall arc. And then the moment it was over, the next writer sauntered in and wiped out absolutely everything that had come before it with "it was all a dream". Bah.
They really pulled a "Dallas" on Bruce Jones' run? That's lame. At it's lowest it was nowhere near Loeb's stuff right now.
The "it was all a dream" thing was PADs' interim story after Jones' run was finished and right before Daniel Ways' Prelude to Planet Hulk arc. To be honest though I don't think PAD completely wiped out Jones previous work as Nightmare was involved and it was left somewhat ambiguous.
Ok so I got Doom Patrol #4 today cause its a BN crossover and because I got a free ring out of it.
Gotta say though, I thought the writing in it was pretty terrible. Griffen beans the reader over the head with not one, but two complete origin stories in the first pages of the issue.
Then on top of that his little "clippings" or whatever the hell you want to call them were completely intrusive to the page format and story flow. The random bits of crap stuck on the page to randomly fill in the reader with useless exposition.
Gotta say, from my perspective, if they're trying to pick up new readers, this was a pretty awful book to do it.
I hate all arcs that involve " it was all a dream." I find it to be lame and lazy.
I think it was necessary in Bruce Jone's case.
Loeb's Rulk storyline is hardly stellar or compact either, but at least superpowered stuff goes on regularly and (IMO) it's starting to get interesting. Jones' run was meandering, convoluted to the breaking point of legibility, and achingly dull. The only good part was the eventual Hulk/Abomination fight, and that was almost ruined by the blather about Banner's control. And some of the art. JRjr.
The Absorbing Man arc was plain bad. You could tell Jones had no idea about the character he'd decided to use. "His power is mimicking the physical properties of any substance he touches? Okay then, let's make him possess minds!" And then the ending... Turning it into a dream was the best thing they could've done. There are a few more situations where it could come in handy.
The "*gasp* m-metahuman!" thing doesn't surprise me. Interesting to see what comics he's been mucking up since then. Isn't he supposed to be a novelist or something? Is he a successful one?
The Doom Patrol is my favorite superhero team but man if the new series isn't depressing. I've only read the first 3 issues but everyone in that book is insane and not in any sort of fun way. Somethings gunna haveta change soon. Although on the other hand, I kinda like how seriously messed up they are, since you rarely see that in a superhero team. I'll have to pick up #4, I can't imagine bringing back past dead members is going to be good for anyone's mental health. I'm not really liking the new series but my curiosity of where they're gunna take it keeps me reading.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
If you want to read something that seems completely phoned in, Astonishing X-Men #32 would be that comic. It is very decompressed, and the big reveal at the end that
People who don't like mutants (tired old plot) are resurrecting dead mutants (late to the party plot) to make them into mutant robot killers (tired/old and late to the party plot) based on Hank's own mutant research (slightly original plot) and that Agent Brand was hiding it from the X-Men (lame plot twist done before)
Even before Necrosha started this wasn't original, and now we have two ongoing "back from the dead kill other mutants" stories,
really makes me wonder why we have editors because they don't do anything. Pretty pretty art from Jimenez though(it looks a lot better than his Amazing Spider-Man stuff).
Red Skull taking Steve's body? Again? Seriously, Brubaker. Yeah, that's what all the clues were pointing at, but an original take on it or something new would be nice. I was one of the people who really liked the first couple of issues of this book, but it's really going dowhill for me. And Hitch's art just keeps getting uglier when he tries to ship on a monthly schedule. For a major book like this, Marvel should have just let them get a few issues in the can, or gotten someone else to draw it. Hitch can draw some great scenes, but needs more time to do it.
I guess I'm just bummed because I fucking love Captain America and Brubaker's other books right now are so good, and this is pretty mediocre and could have been told in the ongoing Cap series without the need for a limited.
I don't see why they needed to bring Hitch in anyway. Butch Guice was doing a fantastic job, and so was his predecessor, Epting.
Of course, I'm still of the opinion that the Reborn arc should have taken place within the regular monthly ongoing. There is no need whatsoever to split this out into a stand-alone mini. Its just ridiculous.
They didn't kill Cap in a stand-alone, so why do they need to bring him back in one?
Red Skull taking Steve's body? Again? Seriously, Brubaker. Yeah, that's what all the clues were pointing at, but an original take on it or something new would be nice. I was one of the people who really liked the first couple of issues of this book, but it's really going dowhill for me. And Hitch's art just keeps getting uglier when he tries to ship on a monthly schedule. For a major book like this, Marvel should have just let them get a few issues in the can, or gotten someone else to draw it. Hitch can draw some great scenes, but needs more time to do it.
I guess I'm just bummed because I fucking love Captain America and Brubaker's other books right now are so good, and this is pretty mediocre and could have been told in the ongoing Cap series without the need for a limited.
I doubt that Skull will remain in Cap's body for long. They'll probably have a psychic battle of some sort that ends with Cap winning.
Also, I just took a look at Alan Moore's WILDCATS/Spawn mini and found I could barely recognize his writing at all. Was he just not invested in his work during that time?
Red Skull taking Steve's body? Again? Seriously, Brubaker. Yeah, that's what all the clues were pointing at, but an original take on it or something new would be nice. I was one of the people who really liked the first couple of issues of this book, but it's really going dowhill for me. And Hitch's art just keeps getting uglier when he tries to ship on a monthly schedule. For a major book like this, Marvel should have just let them get a few issues in the can, or gotten someone else to draw it. Hitch can draw some great scenes, but needs more time to do it.
I guess I'm just bummed because I fucking love Captain America and Brubaker's other books right now are so good, and this is pretty mediocre and could have been told in the ongoing Cap series without the need for a limited.
I doubt that Skull will remain in Cap's body for long. They'll probably have a psychic battle of some sort that ends with Cap winning.
Also, I just took a look at Alan Moore's WILDCATS/Spawn mini and found I could barely recognize his writing at all. Was he just not invested in his work during that time?
Yeah, the Reed Richards angle hasn't played out yet. You can bet he'll cook up some science magic and save the day.
By the way, what's Epting drawing these days? I think he is probably my top preference on Cap. I like Butch Guice, but I liked Epting's stuff more.
Poor Quesada is going to be heart-broken when he realizes that no one gives a crap about motion comics, and he just sunk a good deal of money into them for nothing.
Poor Quesada is going to be heart-broken when he realizes that no one gives a crap about motion comics, and he just sunk a good deal of money into them for nothing.
Spider-Woman #1 sold well enough to be ranked #1 in animated shows, and #2 in general television shows (behind Mad Men), so apparently some people do.
I agree that Motion Comics are pretty dumb though. They didn't look good in 1966, and they don't look good now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgbsV6aTHts&feature=related
Really though, they can't cost that much to make, so as long as they've even moderately successful, I imagine we'll keep seeing them.
The only situations I could see motion comics being even remotely appealing to me is if they were A) used comedically in kind of an Adult Swim/Seanbaby way, and done with old comics, or used as low-budget continuations of canceled TV shows I enjoyed.
Like, if DC/Wildstorm got the licenses to Reaper and Veronica Mars, and made some decent motion comics using some of the actors from the shows as voice actors? I'd totally watch them.
I think the key is actually less movement, not more. I feel like people are reeally trying to stress the whole, "Holy shit, these things fuckin' move you guys! Wa-chow! Pa-choo!" aspect. The Invincible motion comics were especially egregious in this regard.
I feel like the one strength motion comics have that regular comics don't, is that they can be combined with music and voice acting, and have the pace rigidly controlled by the creator. I'd kind of like to see a more subdued motion comic, with nothing added except sound. No special effects, no animation.
I think motion comics would also work better if used with a more cartoony style. It's just creepy watching realistic John Cassady/Alex Maleev figures moving, and speaking with their creepy, flapping mouths.
Really though, it should be pretty obvious that motion comics are just a way to re-package existing art in a new format, adding things like voice acting from unknown actors, cheap music, and special effects most people with a little know-how could do. A dude over in the AC did this one by himself.
If you want to read something that seems completely phoned in, Astonishing X-Men #32 would be that comic. It is very decompressed, and the big reveal at the end that
People who don't like mutants (tired old plot) are resurrecting dead mutants (late to the party plot) to make them into mutant robot killers (tired/old and late to the party plot) based on Hank's own mutant research (slightly original plot) and that Agent Brand was hiding it from the X-Men (lame plot twist done before)
Even before Necrosha started this wasn't original, and now we have two ongoing "back from the dead kill other mutants" stories,
really makes me wonder why we have editors because they don't do anything. Pretty pretty art from Jimenez though(it looks a lot better than his Amazing Spider-Man stuff).
Oh yeah, I remember why I don't read this book anymore. The entire issue was just so Blah and uninteresting.
And was everything that Hank said sort of weird and a little icky, or was that just me?
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How do you not tell the story of someone who's had everything that they spent their entire adult life fighing for turned backwards on her and turn on her. How do you not tell the story of someone who had their life ruined branded a traitor against the very government and society that she's fought and (technically) died for because they were politically inconvenient? I mean, the Dark Reign parallels to RL are so transparent that it amazes me that no one saw fit to even point out the RL parallel where she suffers this fate and then has it explode about a million times worse than RL.
That and her basically being background scenery in NA. I don't get that. I mean, I know Bendis loves Clint (which is why he does such awful things to him. It's to make his triumphs that much greater or something. I can't go into it now). But that's that and NA's slow as fuck pacing has dragged his meltdown on long enough. Meanwhile Carol's been on the sidelines when she's historically had to act and cowboyed the fuck up to take charge and lead. It's not like she's the only one who's been a commander before.
Oh, wait. She is.
The whole post-SI dynamic has been wacky in that putting Clint in the leadership role is like making a chimp the captain of an oil tanker. You know it's going to end in disaster, but the question is "how badly."
Now that I've actually caught up and read the last year's worth of Ms. Marvels I just can't stand the fact that I'm pretty much in the minority on this. And it annoys me to think that the book sells well (I read the September sales figures on CBR yesterday. There was an almost 20% jump in sales from #45 to 46 to ~45,000 copies) and is about to hit issue #50 when most books won't and her previous solo book only got halfway to that.
On a separate note, I'm a Silver Ager at heart when it comes to supers especially. I don't like what I've seen in Marvel books in this last year especially. It's not the violence, per se. I revel in it at times and see its necessity in Vertigo books, but there's something offputting in the indiscriminate and casual sex and violence being injected into these books in the name of realism. And DC's just as bad. When I read last week's Superman and saw Gen. Lane's base filled with dead soldiers from Luthor's and (someone else)'s escape I just looked at it like "Why?" This is like the Image/Image-inspired upsmanship shit that drove me off.
At least I'll have the Marvel Adventures line, which doesn't get to rely on that sex/violence crutch but still churns out excellent stories every month.
I have all the issues
(in my defense, it was right when I started buying monthlies, and I had bought the first issue, didn't have money for the while, and then bought all the issues to catch up)
I read it and it is the worst
Me too. We should start a support group.
God, I hate that page. How does Jones still get work?
Also, am I the only person who hates the use of really lazy onomatopoeia like "gasp," "sigh," "groan," and so on? I always prefer the way writers like Morrison do them, where sighs are written as, "Hhh," and so on.
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Then he did stuff for DC that was just bad.
And didn't he write that story where the Absorbing Man began possessing people? I didn't care for that one either.
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I just liked how he made Hulk on the run seem something more than the army going after him and he could somewhat control the Hulk with zen practice, and the JR jr art didn't hurt. It also had that nice effect where you never saw that much of the Hulk, so when he finally went crazy against Abomination around #50 it was worth it.
I think the drugstore cowboy version was more accurate though.
Diablo 3 - ArtfulDodger#1572
Minecraft - ArtfulDodger42
They really pulled a "Dallas" on Bruce Jones' run? That's lame. At it's lowest it was nowhere near Loeb's stuff right now.
Diablo 3 - ArtfulDodger#1572
Minecraft - ArtfulDodger42
Gotta say though, I thought the writing in it was pretty terrible. Griffen beans the reader over the head with not one, but two complete origin stories in the first pages of the issue.
Then on top of that his little "clippings" or whatever the hell you want to call them were completely intrusive to the page format and story flow. The random bits of crap stuck on the page to randomly fill in the reader with useless exposition.
Gotta say, from my perspective, if they're trying to pick up new readers, this was a pretty awful book to do it.
I think it was necessary in Bruce Jone's case.
Loeb's Rulk storyline is hardly stellar or compact either, but at least superpowered stuff goes on regularly and (IMO) it's starting to get interesting. Jones' run was meandering, convoluted to the breaking point of legibility, and achingly dull. The only good part was the eventual Hulk/Abomination fight, and that was almost ruined by the blather about Banner's control. And some of the art.
The Absorbing Man arc was plain bad. You could tell Jones had no idea about the character he'd decided to use. "His power is mimicking the physical properties of any substance he touches? Okay then, let's make him possess minds!" And then the ending... Turning it into a dream was the best thing they could've done. There are a few more situations where it could come in handy.
The "*gasp* m-metahuman!" thing doesn't surprise me. Interesting to see what comics he's been mucking up since then. Isn't he supposed to be a novelist or something? Is he a successful one?
Even before Necrosha started this wasn't original, and now we have two ongoing "back from the dead kill other mutants" stories,
really makes me wonder why we have editors because they don't do anything. Pretty pretty art from Jimenez though(it looks a lot better than his Amazing Spider-Man stuff).
I guess I'm just bummed because I fucking love Captain America and Brubaker's other books right now are so good, and this is pretty mediocre and could have been told in the ongoing Cap series without the need for a limited.
Of course, I'm still of the opinion that the Reborn arc should have taken place within the regular monthly ongoing. There is no need whatsoever to split this out into a stand-alone mini. Its just ridiculous.
They didn't kill Cap in a stand-alone, so why do they need to bring him back in one?
Also, I just took a look at Alan Moore's WILDCATS/Spawn mini and found I could barely recognize his writing at all. Was he just not invested in his work during that time?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Yeah, the Reed Richards angle hasn't played out yet. You can bet he'll cook up some science magic and save the day.
By the way, what's Epting drawing these days? I think he is probably my top preference on Cap. I like Butch Guice, but I liked Epting's stuff more.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Poor Quesada is going to be heart-broken when he realizes that no one gives a crap about motion comics, and he just sunk a good deal of money into them for nothing.
Diablo 3 - ArtfulDodger#1572
Minecraft - ArtfulDodger42
I really liked his design when Udon was drawing him in Simone's DP run and Agent X. Thought that was more fitting to him.
Spider-Woman #1 sold well enough to be ranked #1 in animated shows, and #2 in general television shows (behind Mad Men), so apparently some people do.
I agree that Motion Comics are pretty dumb though. They didn't look good in 1966, and they don't look good now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgbsV6aTHts&feature=related
Really though, they can't cost that much to make, so as long as they've even moderately successful, I imagine we'll keep seeing them.
The only situations I could see motion comics being even remotely appealing to me is if they were A) used comedically in kind of an Adult Swim/Seanbaby way, and done with old comics, or
Like, if DC/Wildstorm got the licenses to Reaper and Veronica Mars, and made some decent motion comics using some of the actors from the shows as voice actors? I'd totally watch them.
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https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Despite how much they suck, the theme songs are amazing
I feel like the one strength motion comics have that regular comics don't, is that they can be combined with music and voice acting, and have the pace rigidly controlled by the creator. I'd kind of like to see a more subdued motion comic, with nothing added except sound. No special effects, no animation.
I think motion comics would also work better if used with a more cartoony style. It's just creepy watching realistic John Cassady/Alex Maleev figures moving, and speaking with their creepy, flapping mouths.
Really though, it should be pretty obvious that motion comics are just a way to re-package existing art in a new format, adding things like voice acting from unknown actors, cheap music, and special effects most people with a little know-how could do. A dude over in the AC did this one by himself.
Tumblr Twitter
Oh yeah, I remember why I don't read this book anymore. The entire issue was just so Blah and uninteresting.
And was everything that Hank said sort of weird and a little icky, or was that just me?
All that effort and a fucking z-lister villain knows his identity and with such ease...God damnt. I need to stick to my promise to not read that shit.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
He's human...but with a VENOM JAW! ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCK!
I haven't read the newest issue of Marvel Adventures Spider-Man yet, but I have a feeling that you are wrong.