i think the second one is working pretty well. Though perhaps the girl is a little too large in comparison to the boy. Maybe shrik her, or increase the size of him. Add a few foreground or background elements which set the scene a little more. are these part of a series of images for a book or comic? Have you done thumbnails of each scene? Perhaps upload them and people can give you advice on whats working before you commit your time to them.
*stuff overall is looking awesome btw. Improving sh*t loads! Keep it up.
Get up out of your chair, put your camera on a timer and start acting these things out. If you can't express an emotion through your own body, you're going to have a tough time figuring it out with a pencil.
I think particularly helpful for you to look at is the breakdowns on the acting references in the first link, and the posts in his blog where he shows live action references. It's all about how to show the character's thoughts, rather than simply the make-up of their physical bodies through drawing and expression. If you want to express "sad" in a non-generic way, you need to go deeper than just saying, "she needs to look sad"- you need to consider all the things that go into that sadness- is the character gloomy all the time? Or emotionally held-back? Or usually happy and has been simply crushed by whatever event? Are they going to bawl their eyes out, or are they the type to hold it in, and try to "be brave" to try and hold up the spirits of those around them? Every answer to these questions will effect how the character will be drawn. Knowing who your characters are and how their reaction is going to be specific to their character is essential to getting expressive characterization.
Right now I see a couple people, and they have symbolic indications of basic emotions on their faces, but I can't tell what they are thinking, what sort of people they are. I'd like to do a drawover to show strengthened expressions, but without being able to tell what the characters are supposed to be thinking, it's impossible to do this successfully, unless I just started making up a story in my head, which may or may not jive with the story you're looking to tell. I think if you do the mental homework in your head about what your characters' character and thoughts are in a detailed and thorough way, half of your problems will be solved without having to consciously tell yourself, "these characters need to be more expressive."
What it feels like right now is that your focus is on simply trying to get the drawing done in a style- as long as the eyes look like eyes and the mouth looks like a mouth and it looks like it's in a consistent style, it's good- which would explain why you went as far as to color these already, rather than posting at a pencil sketch stage- you're trying to present your technical competence, rather than showing and tackling your real problems at the barest stage. Work out your expressions in physical acting and pencil thumbnails before committing to technically finicking! You'll just wind up polishing porcelain doll version of people, rather than believable characters.
I might also recommend this An Actor Prepares, which is probably one of the better known books on classic stage/film acting out there, and helps to get in the habit of getting in the head of your characters.
They have expressions, they're just sort of creepy. The girl on the left looks like she just got offered candy and the one on the right is gazing wistfully at some kind of tentacle things.
I think the art is good but suffers from the non committal line work. It looks like some of the contour lines just sort of fade out.
They have expressions, they're just sort of creepy. The girl on the left looks like she just got offered candy and the one on the right is gazing wistfully at some kind of tentacle things.
I think the art is good but suffers from the non committal line work. It looks like some of the contour lines just sort of fade out.
The art suffers more from lack of interest moreso than lack of non-committal line work. The expressions aren't creepy, they're just not there. What you have in their places are the generic, or as Bacon said, symbolic representations of emotion. Example: This person has their eyesbrows and mouth turned downward, they're sad.
F87, what it looks like happened (not saying this is how it went down) is that you drew in the figures first, then put in the emotion. It should happen all at once. Sort of like how you don't fully render one area at a time when you're drawing because it comes out mismatched, you can't just force emotion through one area of the body. Think about when you're in a sad mood...is it ever just your face and eyebrows showing it? No...your shoulders are slumped, your back is slight hunched, everything just kind of feels more limp and useless (heh). You have to convey emotion purposefully, especially in a dialogue-less, still image like a painting.
It looks like what your art would look like if you only ever really drew the face and body from one angle. You need to take some figure classes F87 because right now, you just don't have the anatomy knowledge to extrapolate to other poses.
This was a test run through for my little 3D props I'll be making soon...wanted to see roughly how long the process would take (this one was about 3 hours, but I tinkered a bit), and what texture size to use (decided on 256x256).
This was a test run through for my little 3D props I'll be making soon...wanted to see roughly how long the process would take (this one was about 3 hours, but I tinkered a bit), and what texture size to use (decided on 256x256).
Shanks! Yeah, I didn't want it too clean or too grungy. I'm trying to figure out what aesthetic I want to pursue for the whole set of props - I'm thinking I'll do something a little cartoony-ish and bright...like WoW, but not Wow.
(Depending on what I land on, this may or may not actually be included in the final set).
Is it possible to be employed in the entertainment industry as a concept artist with no knowledge of 3d programs? Just drawing, design, and painting?
It's possible, but it seems that the majority of companies hiring concept artists see 3D knowledge as a solid plus. There are quite a few I've seen that require 3D knowledge, though.
If you're not already, you should constantly look for concept art jobs...even if you're not planning on applying to any at the time, it's good to see to read the job requirements, to see what specific companies look for, and what the industry as a whole is looking for in concept artists.
my brain glazes over the second I even look at the interface on a 3d program. guess ill stick to the dying print illustration business. Financial stability is overrated...right?
id imagine that being able to model and texture really well for games and animation is a skill in itself. They'd have to be dreaming if they think they can score someone who is a wizz on conceptart/idea generation AND also be a pro in 3d software. Then again, ive never worked in the industry so i wouldnt know.
Is it possible to be employed in the entertainment industry as a concept artist with no knowledge of 3d programs? Just drawing, design, and painting?
yes
i don't know where people get this idea that you have to know 3d programs inside and out
if you understand the concepts, you're golden in most studios
if you can use 3d, you're probably a step ahead insomuch as you'll get shit done pretty fast if you're working with heavy perspective things like city scapes and vehicles and the likes
but there is an entire section of a games studio that does 3d stuff
any 3d a concept artist is doing is so that they can get their ideas across more efficiently.
concept art is not what people on this forum seem to be convinced it is
it's about being creative and being able to get your ideas down quickly and efficiently
this is what i've found through talking to every professional concept artist i've spoken to
it's not about "hey i can render this dude perfectly so it looks like a photograph but he's just a generic dude"
it's about giving tons of ideas for how to make generic dude x less generic and being able to show these ideas (still has to look super good too).
you have to be a really exceptional artist to do this, but this whole polished perfectly rendered image that people seem to get in their head when you say "concept artist" is not an entirely true representation of what most concept artists are doing in the pre production or concepting stages of game or film development.
pick up the book dream worlds
that'll give a really good idea of what feature film concept artists do. quick, (gorgeous) studies, done in pens, markers, watercolor, whatever they can get their hands on drawn on whatever is closest at hand at meetings.
and it truly sets the theme of entire films sometimes.
this is not some secret information, this is very readily available if you venture beyond this forum and conceptart.org to actually speak to working concept artists who are currently employed in studios about what they do.
there are entire books about it on amazon
dream worlds is one of them, if you're interested in film concepting.
if you're really interested in doing this for your profession, then take some time and learn about it
what does a concept artist in a games studio actually do in their 9-5 job? despite popular belief, this question is not fully answered at conceptart.org.
how does that tie in to what the modelers do?
what about the animators?
hey here's a fun word...graphic artist! what do they do and how does that relate to the role of the concept artist? in smaller studios, concept artist= graphic artist too wooooah
there's a lot to learn outside of just the technical aspects of art making
and in the interview process it is just as important that you show an understanding of the role you wish to play in a company.
if you come at them with all sorts of stuff like "hey i can kind of model in 3d!" but don't seem to know how that ties in to the role of whatever position you're applying for, then it's going to reflect poorly on you
like a doctor going to an interview and being like "i kinda know a bit about plumbing!" great...so you can... fix our sinks when they clog? what the eff? why is this relevant?
I don't know how indicative it is of concept processes but I've been spending a lot of time just ogling the Mass Effect art book, and it at least gives you a glimpse of the sheer volume of output one artist has to make just for stuff like chairs and lamps, and how good you have to be at conveying complex ideas with a few rough brush strokes.
One thing I've noticed about a lot of these concept artists is that they have an almost cartoony, comic-book style, which really seems to help them express the internal qualities of their subjects when doing character sketches.
I don't know how indicative it is of concept processes but I've been spending a lot of time just ogling the Mass Effect art book, and it at least gives you a glimpse of the sheer volume of output one artist has to make just for stuff like chairs and lamps, and how good you have to be at conveying complex ideas with a few rough brush strokes.
One thing I've noticed about a lot of these concept artists is that they have an almost cartoony, comic-book style, which really seems to help them express the internal qualities of their subjects when doing character sketches.
yeah that's the thing i've noticed the most too
there are lots of different styles that come through in concept artists work that i've seen but almost all of them are very very flexible
they can go from realism to super cartoony with no issues
depending on what the problem calls for.
they are undeniably really fucking awesome artists
I was going to reply to the "concept art + 3D" question, but my internet cut out forever. I'm currently using somebody's unsecured connection. Muaheheh
But yeah, Beavo pretty much got everything I was going to say. Also:
id imagine that being able to model and texture really well for games and animation is a skill in itself. They'd have to be dreaming if they think they can score someone who is a wizz on conceptart/idea generation AND also be a pro in 3d software. Then again, ive never worked in the industry so i wouldnt know.
I don't think that companies are expecting concept artists to be extremely well-versed in 3D software when they mention "3D knowledge a plus" or even "3D knowledge required" in job requirements. It does help to have that knowledge, yes...but by saying either of those things, they are not saying "you have to be an advanced 3D modeler and a texture artist too".
Having some working knowledge of one or more 3D packages is probably all that they're looking for, in most cases.
Tam, you basically have a two-value picture here with a samey-looking soft edge on all the light to dark transitions. There isn't enough contrast or variety in edge types and values.
I added just a hair of core shadow near the terminator of the light to dark transitions to boost the depth, then I went over the whole thing with a soft multiply brush to darken it up a hair and erased out lighter areas again to push the contrast more. I softened up the value transition on the cheeks a bit as well and a few other things.
thanks, the first is a wip that's in the 'wait wait how am i approaching shading this i dont know what im doing or why' stage and i'll probably never touch the second again (the new shading was done experimentally)
Tam, you basically have a two-value picture here with a samey-looking soft edge on all the light to dark transitions. There isn't enough contrast or variety in edge types and values.
I added just a hair of core shadow near the terminator of the light to dark transitions to boost the depth, then I went over the whole thing with a soft multiply brush to darken it up a hair and erased out lighter areas again to push the contrast more. I softened up the value transition on the cheeks a bit as well and a few other things.
thanks scos
I really need to take some sort of painting course or something- everything I do looks wrong and what I did before looked about as right as I could get it
Tam - maybe you should also try varying your hues slightly when transitioning from lights to midtones to shadows. It seems that all of these all stay in the same hue...but changing it up would make your coloring look a lot better, methinks. (Generally, cooler/less saturated tones for shadows work nicely, unless you're dealing with some weird-ass lighting scheme).
Tam: you don't need a painting class. You just need practice. From what it seems, you don't color stuff because you don't like the way it comes out (not even close to your bad ass line works).
Just do some studies and you'll be straight. I myself have learned a shit ton from all of the recent Sargent studies I've done. And so long as you're paying attention to hue, sat, value, and edges, you'll learn a shit ton too!
Posts
Trying to get more emotion in the faces. Please ignore the bottom girls mouth for now, I need to find a reference and really try again.
And the next one, I'm not very happy with.
Thanks for any help guys.
*stuff overall is looking awesome btw. Improving sh*t loads! Keep it up.
http://www.arfenhaus.com
http://arfenhaus.blogspot.com
Also, John K has a lot of good stuff to say about acting, and drawing specific expressions:
http://comicrazys.com/2008/12/04/ren-stimpy-acting-reference-stimpys-first-fart-john-kricfalusi/
http://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/2008/12/eyes-and-how-versatile-they-can-be-if.html
http://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/search/label/specific%20acting
I think particularly helpful for you to look at is the breakdowns on the acting references in the first link, and the posts in his blog where he shows live action references. It's all about how to show the character's thoughts, rather than simply the make-up of their physical bodies through drawing and expression. If you want to express "sad" in a non-generic way, you need to go deeper than just saying, "she needs to look sad"- you need to consider all the things that go into that sadness- is the character gloomy all the time? Or emotionally held-back? Or usually happy and has been simply crushed by whatever event? Are they going to bawl their eyes out, or are they the type to hold it in, and try to "be brave" to try and hold up the spirits of those around them? Every answer to these questions will effect how the character will be drawn. Knowing who your characters are and how their reaction is going to be specific to their character is essential to getting expressive characterization.
Right now I see a couple people, and they have symbolic indications of basic emotions on their faces, but I can't tell what they are thinking, what sort of people they are. I'd like to do a drawover to show strengthened expressions, but without being able to tell what the characters are supposed to be thinking, it's impossible to do this successfully, unless I just started making up a story in my head, which may or may not jive with the story you're looking to tell. I think if you do the mental homework in your head about what your characters' character and thoughts are in a detailed and thorough way, half of your problems will be solved without having to consciously tell yourself, "these characters need to be more expressive."
What it feels like right now is that your focus is on simply trying to get the drawing done in a style- as long as the eyes look like eyes and the mouth looks like a mouth and it looks like it's in a consistent style, it's good- which would explain why you went as far as to color these already, rather than posting at a pencil sketch stage- you're trying to present your technical competence, rather than showing and tackling your real problems at the barest stage. Work out your expressions in physical acting and pencil thumbnails before committing to technically finicking! You'll just wind up polishing porcelain doll version of people, rather than believable characters.
I might also recommend this An Actor Prepares, which is probably one of the better known books on classic stage/film acting out there, and helps to get in the habit of getting in the head of your characters.
Twitter
I think the art is good but suffers from the non committal line work. It looks like some of the contour lines just sort of fade out.
The art suffers more from lack of interest moreso than lack of non-committal line work. The expressions aren't creepy, they're just not there. What you have in their places are the generic, or as Bacon said, symbolic representations of emotion. Example: This person has their eyesbrows and mouth turned downward, they're sad.
F87, what it looks like happened (not saying this is how it went down) is that you drew in the figures first, then put in the emotion. It should happen all at once. Sort of like how you don't fully render one area at a time when you're drawing because it comes out mismatched, you can't just force emotion through one area of the body. Think about when you're in a sad mood...is it ever just your face and eyebrows showing it? No...your shoulders are slumped, your back is slight hunched, everything just kind of feels more limp and useless (heh). You have to convey emotion purposefully, especially in a dialogue-less, still image like a painting.
http://www.arfenhaus.com
http://arfenhaus.blogspot.com
This was a test run through for my little 3D props I'll be making soon...wanted to see roughly how long the process would take (this one was about 3 hours, but I tinkered a bit), and what texture size to use (decided on 256x256).
Looking good. Its a nice, clean crate.
(Depending on what I land on, this may or may not actually be included in the final set).
I don't plan on finishing this. Not sure why I got so far along into it. FUCK!
It's possible, but it seems that the majority of companies hiring concept artists see 3D knowledge as a solid plus. There are quite a few I've seen that require 3D knowledge, though.
If you're not already, you should constantly look for concept art jobs...even if you're not planning on applying to any at the time, it's good to see to read the job requirements, to see what specific companies look for, and what the industry as a whole is looking for in concept artists.
yes
i don't know where people get this idea that you have to know 3d programs inside and out
if you understand the concepts, you're golden in most studios
if you can use 3d, you're probably a step ahead insomuch as you'll get shit done pretty fast if you're working with heavy perspective things like city scapes and vehicles and the likes
but there is an entire section of a games studio that does 3d stuff
any 3d a concept artist is doing is so that they can get their ideas across more efficiently.
concept art is not what people on this forum seem to be convinced it is
it's about being creative and being able to get your ideas down quickly and efficiently
this is what i've found through talking to every professional concept artist i've spoken to
it's not about "hey i can render this dude perfectly so it looks like a photograph but he's just a generic dude"
it's about giving tons of ideas for how to make generic dude x less generic and being able to show these ideas (still has to look super good too).
you have to be a really exceptional artist to do this, but this whole polished perfectly rendered image that people seem to get in their head when you say "concept artist" is not an entirely true representation of what most concept artists are doing in the pre production or concepting stages of game or film development.
pick up the book dream worlds
that'll give a really good idea of what feature film concept artists do. quick, (gorgeous) studies, done in pens, markers, watercolor, whatever they can get their hands on drawn on whatever is closest at hand at meetings.
and it truly sets the theme of entire films sometimes.
our very own Hubble
this is not some secret information, this is very readily available if you venture beyond this forum and conceptart.org to actually speak to working concept artists who are currently employed in studios about what they do.
there are entire books about it on amazon
dream worlds is one of them, if you're interested in film concepting.
if you're really interested in doing this for your profession, then take some time and learn about it
what does a concept artist in a games studio actually do in their 9-5 job? despite popular belief, this question is not fully answered at conceptart.org.
how does that tie in to what the modelers do?
what about the animators?
hey here's a fun word...graphic artist! what do they do and how does that relate to the role of the concept artist? in smaller studios, concept artist= graphic artist too wooooah
there's a lot to learn outside of just the technical aspects of art making
and in the interview process it is just as important that you show an understanding of the role you wish to play in a company.
if you come at them with all sorts of stuff like "hey i can kind of model in 3d!" but don't seem to know how that ties in to the role of whatever position you're applying for, then it's going to reflect poorly on you
like a doctor going to an interview and being like "i kinda know a bit about plumbing!" great...so you can... fix our sinks when they clog? what the eff? why is this relevant?
One thing I've noticed about a lot of these concept artists is that they have an almost cartoony, comic-book style, which really seems to help them express the internal qualities of their subjects when doing character sketches.
what?
yeah that's the thing i've noticed the most too
there are lots of different styles that come through in concept artists work that i've seen but almost all of them are very very flexible
they can go from realism to super cartoony with no issues
depending on what the problem calls for.
they are undeniably really fucking awesome artists
i like the background as a simple reflection but i dunno
if anyone has any tips for adding movement here it'd be mucho appreciated
also i went back to this thing and hopefully unfucked the lighting
nice ideas though, mensch
But yeah, Beavo pretty much got everything I was going to say. Also:
I don't think that companies are expecting concept artists to be extremely well-versed in 3D software when they mention "3D knowledge a plus" or even "3D knowledge required" in job requirements. It does help to have that knowledge, yes...but by saying either of those things, they are not saying "you have to be an advanced 3D modeler and a texture artist too".
Having some working knowledge of one or more 3D packages is probably all that they're looking for, in most cases.
Oh, jobs!
Done with this one...albeit all of its flaws. But as always every critique is appreciated very much.
Tam, you basically have a two-value picture here with a samey-looking soft edge on all the light to dark transitions. There isn't enough contrast or variety in edge types and values.
I added just a hair of core shadow near the terminator of the light to dark transitions to boost the depth, then I went over the whole thing with a soft multiply brush to darken it up a hair and erased out lighter areas again to push the contrast more. I softened up the value transition on the cheeks a bit as well and a few other things.
thanks, the first is a wip that's in the 'wait wait how am i approaching shading this i dont know what im doing or why' stage and i'll probably never touch the second again (the new shading was done experimentally)
...i thought i was improving at making boys look like boys
still needs cleaned up a lot.
thanks scos
I really need to take some sort of painting course or something- everything I do looks wrong and what I did before looked about as right as I could get it
Just do some studies and you'll be straight. I myself have learned a shit ton from all of the recent Sargent studies I've done. And so long as you're paying attention to hue, sat, value, and edges, you'll learn a shit ton too!
Hurray for shit tons!
ive been watching avatar
so i all i can think of is a grown up version of toph