Hello, welcome to the AC.
This subforum is dedicated to posting your own artwork that you've made in the hopes to receive constructive criticism on the works you've done.
The goal of this forum is to continue to build a network of artists and art lovers who help each other achieve their artistic goals and improve their skills.
New threads are to be used only to showcase your own personal artwork that you want advice, criticism, and feedback on. This includes any type of visual or audio art.
While the forum is currently predominantly illustration, other forms of art such as music, animation, and film are welcome to be posted.
If you are unsure if what you want to post would be appropriate, please contact a moderator first and they will gladly help.
What is constructive criticism?Constructive criticism is a response a person has to your work. Typically, this is advice that they feel would improve the piece, or would help you improve your skills.
It is NOT "hey i think this sucks."
It is also not "hey i think this is great, you're awesome!"
It is advice catered to your skill set and your goals to help you improve.
More examples of criticism that are not at all constructive:
"You are so hopelessly amateur, that nothing I can say to you other than read lots of Loomis books will help."
"Stop drawing anime."
Help us cater to your artistic needs and goals.
- Tell us what your goals as an artist are.
- Are you a hobbyist looking to learn to draw landscapes for fun?
- Are you putting together a portfolio to get into art school?
- Are you currently a professional looking to further refine your skills in a certain area?
- How long have you been practicing this form of art?
- Who are some artists or styles that you admire who you strive to be like in your own work?
How do you respond to criticism?
There are a lot of ways you can respond. Generally, it is polite to show that you appreciate that someone took the time to give you crits on your work.
It is important to know that when a person is critting your work, they are not taking shots at you as a person. They are not even really taking shots at your work. They are trying to help you see things from their point of view, or give you guidance based on their expertise and the mistakes they themselves have made in the past.
You should not feel at any time like you are being personally made fun of, and if you do feel like someone is being offensive to you and not giving constructive feedback on the work you do, use the "Report Post" feature located at the bottom right of each post and the moderators will be notified.
(bombardier, Angel_of_Bacon, DMAC, Grfiter, Mars Elliot, Iruka)
If you want to get the most out of this community, read the crits, and then go back and look at your work to see if you can see it from the point of view of the person who was critting you. If you can see their point, and see that it would improve the piece, then edit it, or keep it in mind for the next piece that you do. Thank the person for being helpful.
It is important to note that you do not have to accept all criticism. It is simply advice. You can choose to take it or not. If a piece of advice does not line up with your goals as an artist, then don't bother with it and thank the person and move on to the next one.
Arguing with the person is not really a good idea. It is their opinion based on their knowledge (or lack thereof). Think of them as simply opinions intended to help you out.
More on giving and receiving critiques:There are so many different types of artists, styles, and methods. To provide good crits, you have to understand what the artist's goals are.
If they are aiming to be a realist painter, then crit them as such. If they are aiming to be a cartoonist, then crit them as a cartoonist. To crit someone who is trying to be a cartoonist using realist fundamentals doesn't make any sense.
That being said, learning the basic fundamentals of drawing, photography, or whatever your medium is a very good idea and will only help your more stylized work. If you draw a picture of a guy whose eyes are floating around on different levels and who has one arm shorter than the other, you can't just say "well it's my style." Style and a lack of fundamental drawing knowledge are two very different things. You can still understand those basics and apply them to the style you are using. Knowing proper anatomy, form, construction, lighting, color theory, and all of those other basic drawing fundamentals will only help your own work. Do not disregard those because you have chosen a style.
Most good anime artists, or other cartoonists have a strong foundation in basic drawing fundamentals and beyond. It's much easier to stylize the human form if you have a basic understanding of how it works.
Does that mean that you have to understand exactly how every muscle in the body works? No. Would it help you? Yes, it definitely wouldn't hurt you to know that much.
On the flip side, if someone is drawing a cartoony figure whose proportions, though stylized make sense for what it is, saying "the musculature curving on the calves is all wrong and you should have rendered it all perfectly realistically instead of using cel shading" is not a very good crit. You are disregarding what the purpose of the drawing is. They aren't trying to draw the perfect anatomically correct human form. They are doing a stylized drawing. Keeping in mind that there are more methods of drawing than the one you choose is very important.
If you do not have good knowledge of what the person is trying to achieve, then don't give detailed technical crits simply based on what you yourself are trying to achieve in your personal practice.
Which brings me to another point. "You drew a cat, but you should have drawn a dog because cats are stupid." This is a personal preference and NOT a constructive crit.
Erisian Pope gave me some great links to share:
Giving Crits:
http://emptyeasel.com/2007/06/18/how-to-give-an-art-critique-constructive-criticism-for-artists/
Taking Crits:
http://emptyeasel.com/2007/06/10/how-to-handle-artistic-criticism-learning-from-art-critics-artist-critiques/
Catering your critiques:If an artist comes in here who is 12 years old and has just started to form an interest in drawing to make it a hobby, you should be critting them differently than a person who is well into their career as an artist.
Developing an interest in making art is an important stage that should not be disregarded. Coming at an artist like this with "you are so hopelessly crappy at drawing" is only going to dishearten them. It is not going to help them at all.
Part of this community is fostering and maintaining a love for making art, so keep that in mind.
If you come in here and tell us you want to be a professional artist then you are going to be treated as such. Typically, crits will be a little more picky, technical, and catered to whatever field of art you're trying to get into.
Posts
There are tons of different commercial jobs available for artists, in many different fields, from technical draftsmen to artists for the entertainment industry.
Here is a list with links to a description of some popular types of jobs performed by artists in various fields. (Note that this is not a complete list and that there are overlaps in many of these fields. This is just sort of a starting point if you are interested in learning more about various art career paths.)
Entertainment Industry Fields:
Animator
Storyboard Artist
Concept Artist
3D artist
Design Fields:
Graphic Designer
Multimedia Designer
Web Designer
Product Designer
Fashion/Apparel Design
Illustrator
Fine Art:
Fine Artist
Film/Photography Fields:
Cinematographer
Photographer
Do I have to go to school if I want to be a professional artist? If so, what school is best?
You can teach yourself using resources available to you such as tutorials, books, and online downloadable content like DVDs about artist's techniques etc. (http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=105734). If you build up a strong enough portfolio, you can get clients and fulltime jobs without a degree. Artists on this forum have done so.
A lot of people prefer to go to school as it's a bit more focused, a bit easier to access all of the information you need, and the networking of going to a school and having your peers crit you in person is typically a big selling point.
There is no right or wrong school.
Art school is what you make of it. You get out of it what you put in. If you put in extra effort and work hard to improve above and beyond your school tasks, you will excel in whatever school you choose.
There are famous, talented artists who went to big, expensive US schools like Art Center, and RISD, and there are equally famous and talented concept artists who went to tiny community colleges no one has ever heard of. Some have even taught themselves (check out this thread for more info: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102315
Look into schools in your area and what they offer. If you're interested in doing animation, apply for schools with animation programs. Look up the faculty and try to find their work (Google is a powerful tool). Look up past students and check out their portfolios. Try emailing some of them to see what sort of input they can give you on the school.
There are lots of people who have big egos about the schools they go to. Everyone wants to feel that the institution they are paying for offers the best education possible. It is important to remember that it's not the school that makes an artist good. Just going to X famous school does not make you an instant talented art god. Your own hard work gets you there. Just having the best professor doesn't automatically transfer all of their talent to you, you still have to work for that. Talent is earned, not bought and handed to you on a piece of paper.
Here's a list of a bunch of art schools:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_art_schools
The consequences of being egotistical.
However, in communities like this, egos tend to get a little out of control at times. A bunch of artists in a room, each with their own opinion of what is good art and what isn't is always bound to lead to a bit of head butting.
This is a community that is meant to be friendly and helpful. Be proud of yourself, be proud of the work you do, but leave your ego at the door.
If someone crits you and you don't agree with it, don't be an ass about it. If you're going to give crits, take crits. Discussing them is one thing, but if you find a crit unclear, you should discuss it with the artist. Openly bashing a person for their crit because you don't want to accept that you're not perfect is going to create a hostile community.
As much as possible, be open to criticism from people of various skill levels. Whether you choose to use them or not is up to you, but be open to the fact that they're going to happen. If you accept them with courtesy and grace, and maybe try to learn a bit from them and open your mind, this will continue to be a strong community.
If you choose to disregard everyone who gives you advice because you consider yourself better than everyone here, then this is not the community for you.
Finally: people who post rude, off point or otherwise useless comments posed as criticism will be penalized by the mods. If you see posts such as this, use the "Report Post" feature to get the attention of the moderators.
Have Fun!
There is also a doodle thread where you can post your doodles, or works in progress if you don't feel like posting your own new thread (stickied and has the word [Doodle] in the title)
We also do a monthly artist challenge! So make sure to check it out and participate in that, it's a great way to hone your skills (stickied, near the top of the page, will say "AC Challenge" somewhere in the title)
and Lastly, there is a Questions and Discussions thread here: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=105734 that has tons of information and resources and is a good place to ask any questions you have about processes, software or any other art making questions.
Good initiative, Beavs. But if I have to say anything its this...
That might merit some tweaking.
It sounds mildly alienating, and a tad disrespectful to our fellow, active members who do excel at non-illustrative artwork. It makes it sound like its a sub-culture of sorts around here. I'll grant you that the number of members around here with experience and expertise in those areas are few in number, but they are in no way limited in terms of information, skill, and feedback than anyone in illustration.
A little careful rewording goes a hell of a long way in inspiring lurkers, and fledgling artists in those genres/fields to opening themselves up to our community.
EDIT: Shit. I forgot to mention my overall approval of this thread (as if that merits anything substantial). I think this'll be immensely helpful for newcomers in the future. Kudos, Beavs, for taking the time, and initiative.
Steam handle: Buckwolfe
I was just saying that some general tweaking here or there with the wording could potentially make or break a new member in community.
You have to admit that a lot of people, fledgling artists in particular, tend to be soft, and sensitive. I just think we need to welcome them and their art with unbiased, open arms, WHILE enforcing the boards rules at the same time. It might seem like a minor detail, and maybe it is, but I think its worth looking at is all I'm saying. Its hard to find anyone seeking out help, guidance, and support who already has a thick skin. Those types are usually arrogant, and don't tend to mesh well here.
Steam handle: Buckwolfe
Twitter
I changed that line, you're right. It was more a reaction to people posting stuff not the norm and getting irritated that there is a lack of feedback. You get what you get, basically.
*nudge nudge, grin grin, wink wink*:o
Steam handle: Buckwolfe
I don't have too much to add other than that, looks pretty damn solid.
oh like styles you mean?
realism/anime/comicking, that sort of thing?
iruka: good idea, i'll edit in somewhere to join in the chat thread, that'll get more artists joining in on our general discussion and actually making friends/connections with us all.
yep
tam: i'm gonna talk to bombs about the addition of styles and stuff, that's sort of a tricky one to put to words, there are so many styles within the genres, i tend to think style just sort of happens naturally, and is a combination of all sorts of influences on an artist, but i can also see some benefit to posting examples to like...major genres too
You might have a bunch of unlabeled images and have them pick a few to show the general direction they'd like to go
maybe it is too ponderous- never mind
it's also very limiting considering the sheer number of artistic genres
we're trying to involve all visual arts as well as audio in this
i feel like if an artist just shows us a sample of what they like, we can get enough out of that to help them out.
some artists will be able to show us with no problems what they like without really consciously knowing what genre it is.
You might want to add something about the [NSFW] tag.
No musicians on PA? I was going to put up a few covers I recorded (because sadly, I'm a singer... and as such, only kind of an artist), but it seems like this just isn't the place?
Am I wrong? So little of it that I haven't seen?
Or is this simply not the place?
achievementhunter.com/ChurchsWife
Twitter.com/ChurchesWife
I'm still waiting for someone to start an interpretive dance thread...
Basically, successful modern musicians don't rely on skill to be popular as much as they do on originality and creativity. That's why you're probably not going to get many comments if you post music on here, even from fellow musicians. I don't feel like I've seen any common platform on which people discuss modern songs in a technical sense (a lot of bands make pretty basic music when it comes to technique), though I'm sure it happens in recording studios and band rooms. Does that make sense?
thanks EP!
Basically I think there needs to be a post that we can refer total beginners to instead of telling them to go pick up Drawing on the Left Side of the Brain, since I've written that post enough times in my life, and I'm sure many others have.
I don't know if it would seem too dismissive though to just link somebody to a post instead of writing the exact same information out to them and individualizing it.
nice work
Edit: Wait, it doesn't seem to exist anymore. Maybe that should be resurrected.
so if you have suggestions for it, post in there and i will add.
Striker-Downer of Not-Order
http://www.yodajeff.com/multimedia/sounds/episode5/afraid.wav
i mean
has she ever even posted her work
I bet all she draws is furry stuff.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
more adjectives or infracted
Shit I'll have to infract myself way too much if telling people I like their stuff gets me infracted