But the minarets go next to mosques. It's kind of hard to not notice a mosque.
Synthetic Orange on
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ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
they've been trying to get this ban through since 2007.
The question I have is how exactly are they defining a minaret? I mean, it's a tower. Hell, some of them have even doubled as light houses.
This is a bad day for mariners.
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Across the country, there are only two small minarets, one in Zurich and one in Geneva, neither of which are permitted to make the call to prayer. In Switzerland's capital Berne, the largest mosque is in a former underground car park.
So I need to edit my op then...
and change the word Mosque to Minaret.
Ah mistakes.
Still, its pretty insane that a fear campaign (over a a Muslim push for political power) could be waged over a Muslim population that weighs in at about 350,00
nazi germany proved that it is really fucking easy to blame everything wrong on your country on a group that is a fraction of a percentage of your population if you vigorously otherize them
is otherise a word? whatevs I don't care.
edit: whoops
Randall_Flagg on
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ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Interesting. Apparently the ban could have ramifications for Switzerland's relationship to the European Union, because it may violate international law in some way.
Unfortunately I am not spending $25.00 to delve further into that issue.
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Its not like they are banning the building of Mosques or forbidding people from practicing the religion. Sure its harsh, but its not that terrible.
Minarets are an integral part of mosques.
Well from a little googling there are apparently over 100 mosques in Switzerland, but only 4 Minarets. So they can't be that crucial.
The more conservative mosques don't build them and in some towns they aren't allowed to do the calls to prayer from them (issues with how loud it is) so they do the calls elsewhere. Minarets do serve a purpose but not all mosques are able to make use of them.
Traditionally, the minaret is used so that the call to prayer can be heard over the entire area the mosque serves.
In practice, this has become about has practical and as vital as using church bells to notify a congregation that service has begun. At the same time, it's about as harmful. Maybe some people might be annoyed that the morning call is so early, but unless they use loudspeakers (common in Muslim countries, not so common in the West) it's not likely to cause any significant bother compared to normal city noise.
There are often other concerns, as its intent is as much to give all (Muslim or otherwise) an opportunity to hear some basic tenets of Islam as it is to notify the believers that it is time to pray. Some people are easily offended, and so may object to this use. Most Western mosques make the call in Arabic, though, so any objection on this basis is even less rational than usual.
Since the call to prayer can be (and often is) made without a minaret, any argument on that basis is tenuous at best. Really, though I'm normally hesitant to jump to this sort of conclusion, it seems most likely that it's intended to unabashedly anti-muslim as the op suggests. This sort of thing has no place in any free society.
I'm inherently distrustful of any attempt to limit peaceful religious expression, so I may not be the most objective in this matter.
They're banning the construction of structures due to an imagined power struggle within the state by a small population that will primarily be non-white, or is at least associated with persyns of color, and possibly antagonistic to white hegemony
They're banning the construction of structures due to an imagined power struggle within the state by a small population that will primarily be non-white, or is at least associated with persyns of color, and possibly antagonistic to white hegemony
Interesting. Apparently the ban could have ramifications for Switzerland's relationship to the European Union, because it may violate international law in some way.
It's not really an issue of international law, but it could be seen as a violation of the EU's religious freedom mandate, which all member nations are required to abide by. It's not going to be a "whoops, you're out" sorta deal, but it'll make things pretty tense and will definitely piss off Turkey, who's been courting the EU for membership for some time.
laughingfuzzball on
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms
They're banning the construction of structures due to an imagined power struggle within the state by a small population that will primarily be non-white, or is at least associated with persyns of color, and possibly antagonistic to white hegemony
"Forced marriages and other things like cemeteries separating the pure and impure - we don't have that in Switzerland, and we do not want to introduce it," Ulrich Schlueer, co-president of the Initiative Committee to ban minarets, said.
"Therefore, there's no room for minarets in Switzerland."
ahahaha
forced marriages are bad therefore FUCK MINARETS.
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
"Forced marriages and other things like cemeteries separating the pure and impure - we don't have that in Switzerland, and we do not want to introduce it," Ulrich Schlueer, co-president of the Initiative Committee to ban minarets, said.
"Therefore, there's no room for minarets in Switzerland."
"The minaret is a sign of political power and demand, comparable with whole-body covering by the burqa, tolerance of forced marriage and genital mutilation of girls," the sponsors said. They noted that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has compared mosques to Islam's military barracks and called "the minarets our bayonets."
This is the problem with military metaphors. While they'll generally be understood by those they're addressed to as a call to action, someone outside the intended audience will inevitably twist it into something more literal and much more disturbing.
laughingfuzzball on
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
They're banning the construction of structures due to an imagined power struggle within the state by a small population that will primarily be non-white, or is at least associated with persyns of color, and possibly antagonistic to white hegemony
if only there were white muslims
THAT IS NOT RACIST
holy fuck
people who overuse "racist" make me want to murder whiny, white-guilt shitheads more than I normally do
"Forced marriages and other things like cemeteries separating the pure and impure - we don't have that in Switzerland, and we do not want to introduce it," Ulrich Schlueer, co-president of the Initiative Committee to ban minarets, said.
"Therefore, there's no room for minarets in Switzerland."
also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms
refusing to allow someone to build a particular religious structure because it's from a religious tradition they don't like doesn't count as an abridgment of freedom to you?
ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
wait are they saying that muslims are furries
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
our political party had no money so we stole our logo from a dairy farm
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms
refusing to allow someone to build a particular religious structure because it's from a religious tradition they don't like doesn't count as an abridgment of freedom to you?
what?
not when it's superfluous and mosques exist without it, no
also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms
Some Muslims see the minaret as vital to the practice of their religion, if only in a symbolic way.
As soon as a government tries to set forth what is and is not a vital part of a religion, it loses the ability to make any good-faith claim to religious freedom.
also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms
refusing to allow someone to build a particular religious structure because it's from a religious tradition they don't like doesn't count as an abridgment of freedom to you?
what?
not when it's superfluous and mosques exist without it, no
um that doesn't mean it's okay
for example! The star of David is not required in the Jewish faith to be displayed anywhere, so by your logic banning the use of that star on all buildings wouldn't be an abridgment of religious freedom
So, apparently the Swiss have moved to ban the construction of Minarets in the country?
Like, through popular support.
A Minaret is one of these:
The campaign for it was apparently largely based on the idea that there was an internal push for power by the Muslim population within the state, even though there is only a six percent Muslim population, and only twenty percent of those Muslims practice
Oh,
and holy crap
The People's Party has campaigned mainly unsuccessfully in previous years against immigrants with campaign posters showing white sheep kicking a black sheep off the Swiss flag and another with brown hands grabbing eagerly for Swiss passports.
"The minaret is a sign of political power and demand, comparable with whole-body covering by the burqa, tolerance of forced marriage and genital mutilation of girls," the sponsors said. They noted that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has compared mosques to Islam's military barracks and called "the minarets our bayonets."
Posts
The question I have is how exactly are they defining a minaret? I mean, it's a tower. Hell, some of them have even doubled as light houses.
This is a bad day for mariners.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
good thing we're not talking about sweden at all
Need some stuff designed or printed? I can help with that.
Mosque_in_bourke_cemetery_nsw_australia.jpg
no
fucking
way
why am I sober and being dumb
if only islam were a race
nazi germany proved that it is really fucking easy to blame everything wrong on your country on a group that is a fraction of a percentage of your population if you vigorously otherize them
is otherise a word? whatevs I don't care.
edit: whoops
http://brill.publisher.ingentaconnect.com/content/mnp/rhrs/2008/00000003/00000002/art00002
Unfortunately I am not spending $25.00 to delve further into that issue.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Traditionally, the minaret is used so that the call to prayer can be heard over the entire area the mosque serves.
In practice, this has become about has practical and as vital as using church bells to notify a congregation that service has begun. At the same time, it's about as harmful. Maybe some people might be annoyed that the morning call is so early, but unless they use loudspeakers (common in Muslim countries, not so common in the West) it's not likely to cause any significant bother compared to normal city noise.
There are often other concerns, as its intent is as much to give all (Muslim or otherwise) an opportunity to hear some basic tenets of Islam as it is to notify the believers that it is time to pray. Some people are easily offended, and so may object to this use. Most Western mosques make the call in Arabic, though, so any objection on this basis is even less rational than usual.
Since the call to prayer can be (and often is) made without a minaret, any argument on that basis is tenuous at best. Really, though I'm normally hesitant to jump to this sort of conclusion, it seems most likely that it's intended to unabashedly anti-muslim as the op suggests. This sort of thing has no place in any free society.
I'm inherently distrustful of any attempt to limit peaceful religious expression, so I may not be the most objective in this matter.
They're banning the construction of structures due to an imagined power struggle within the state by a small population that will primarily be non-white, or is at least associated with persyns of color, and possibly antagonistic to white hegemony
if only there were white muslims
It's not really an issue of international law, but it could be seen as a violation of the EU's religious freedom mandate, which all member nations are required to abide by. It's not going to be a "whoops, you're out" sorta deal, but it'll make things pretty tense and will definitely piss off Turkey, who's been courting the EU for membership for some time.
HG: 5285 4128 5154
yeah this is dumb
Swiss people are dumb except those who live in primarily french speaking cantons (since all of them opposed it.)
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_57616.shtml
ahahaha
forced marriages are bad therefore FUCK MINARETS.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
LOGIC
HG: 5285 4128 5154
This is the problem with military metaphors. While they'll generally be understood by those they're addressed to as a call to action, someone outside the intended audience will inevitably twist it into something more literal and much more disturbing.
THAT IS NOT RACIST
holy fuck
people who overuse "racist" make me want to murder whiny, white-guilt shitheads more than I normally do
sorry pip
and before you answer, let me guess:
refusing to allow someone to build a particular religious structure because it's from a religious tradition they don't like doesn't count as an abridgment of freedom to you?
what?
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
That might be my favorite political logo ever.
HG: 5285 4128 5154
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
death to the muslim race
not when it's superfluous and mosques exist without it, no
Some Muslims see the minaret as vital to the practice of their religion, if only in a symbolic way.
As soon as a government tries to set forth what is and is not a vital part of a religion, it loses the ability to make any good-faith claim to religious freedom.
um that doesn't mean it's okay
for example! The star of David is not required in the Jewish faith to be displayed anywhere, so by your logic banning the use of that star on all buildings wouldn't be an abridgment of religious freedom
BUT IT TOTALLY WOULD
Man!
Fucking Switzerland, man!
HG: 5285 4128 5154
FUCKER IS FROM THE NEXT FUCKING TOWN OVER ORIGINALLY AS WELL