Lady Friend (No Crazies Edition)

Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
edited December 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
So my lady problems are well documented.

This isn't a problem but I'm just a bit confused. Obviously from my past I've made myself a little more hesitant to be trusting and to find better people to be around.

Met this girl at the Matt and Kim concert at the beginning of the year. Got drunk with her, continued to talk and hang out. Things moved too fast for the both of us, we slowed down and things got a lot better. Slowly became a relationship. She went to Thanksgiving dinner with me and she's flying me up to Connecticut so we can drive her car back to Oklahoma. We're comfortable with each other, chill, no drama. Exactly what I need. She doesn't feel like a girlfriend in a lot of ways because she's not picky, she's not a huge bitch and she doesn't demand my attention all of the time.

The other day we were just kinda grating on each others nerves, no big deal and we just kinda laughed it off.

We went to my buddy's house, played bp, drank, hung out. There were some guys there I didn't know, but that's not unexpected at his house because he's friends with a lot of people. And my lady, she's a likable gal and gets along with everyone, strikes up conversation easily and so on and so forth.

And with my experience in cheating it'd be easy for me to be jealous or always be watching her, but I trust her and never really bother. I know she's coming home with me at the end of the night and she's just making friends.

Saturday was a bit different. One of these guys (I don't think he even drank that much, but he was acting like he had) was on the couch with her as we were waiting to go to another party. He started kind of laying on the couch towards her. I didn't think anything of it, no need to assume and freak out for no reason. So I went outside where everyone was smoking and came back in to let her know we were gonna leave whenever she was ready. She offered to leave then and I said she could finish talking and just let me know. The guy was kind of looking seedy. So as I left I saw his arm behind her... and as I was walking away I saw him put it around her.

I went outside because I was hoping that when I came back in it wouldn't be there. I come back in a few later and it's still there. So I ask him if he's fucking serious. He jumps back and is afraid because he's been caught. Claims he's drunk, so on and so forth and we decided to leave.

I ask her outside what that was about because I'm pretty upset she'd never said anything to get him to stop. She said it meant nothing and her excuse was, "Well we were leaving soon anyway." I asked her what she meant and she said that because we were leaving soon, she knew it wasn't going to go anywhere. I asked her if that justified her not saying anything and she kinda felt like it did.

Both were drunk. I was too. She talks to her ex consistently and is close friends with guys. That's never bothered with me because she's not a bitch like my ex. I've never been suspicious or anything until this event.

We talked. We've both been cheated on and have cheated before. Neither of us want either of that but she really couldn't say why she didn't say anything. She was upset and said she'd been upset had she been in my shoes. She said it was her fault and, in the end, didn't know why she didn't say anything.

So... I ask what do I do? How do I handle the situation? I like this girl a lot and have never had a problem trusting her completely. But just because of my past with my exes this makes me really worried and anxious.

Forgive and forget has burned me multiple times in the past. But being angry about it seems dumb because it was a mistake.

I'm not sure... thanks in advance guys.
(No need to bring up the past gf posts. It's not about them, but this new situation. Because of the past, though I don't want to get burned again.)

TL, DR; Like new girl a lot. No problem trusting her at all. She lets some guy put his arm around her and rub her back and never says anything until I intervene. She says nothing was going to happen so that's why she let it go on. I call... bs? Not sure.

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Posts

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I'm gonna have to say that this isn't a big deal. She was probably just trying to avoid an awkward confrontation on a situation that she knew she was going to be rescued from. Throw in the mental fuzziness of drunkenness and it probably did seem like a good idea at the time.

    The fact that she was upset by it and didn't try to make excuses says that she knew she should've said something. Someone else may have a different perspective on this, but I think that the only way this is going to be an issue is if you make it into one.

    admanb on
  • LailLail Surrey, B.C.Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    You've met this awesome girl. Some guy put her arm around her. You're upset because in your head you think she's going to go fuck this guy. In reality, she's never going to see this guy again, she probably doesn't care that she's never going to see this guy again, and really, she knew she was leaving with you and was just having a drunken chat. Don't ruin this because of an arm on a back.

    Lail on
  • AddaAdda Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    When she offered to leave she was probably looking for an escape route, she might actually be pissed off with you for saying she could keep talking and wandering off again.

    It sounds like you've got a good thing going so I wouldn't so much about it.

    I figure you've got two options in relationships, be completely trusting and enjoy yourself or always be paranoid/jealous and run the relationship into the ground. This advice applies to people who have cheated, been cheated on or those who have no experience of infidelity.

    Adda on
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  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    At least she didn't try to spin it.

    You will likely deal with this for a week, but just play it cool and wait for your feelings on it to subside.

    Nothing happened

    And people can be pretty cowardly in these situations, and girls specifically don't really like to confront people they don't know, so she'll likely just learn that "hey he doesn't like that" and all will be dandy

    The Black Hunter on
  • Minus_83Minus_83 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2009
    Adda wrote: »
    When she offered to leave she was probably looking for an escape route, she might actually be pissed off with you for saying she could keep talking and wandering off again.

    yeah, thats the vibe id have gotten too, i dont get why you didnt say ok to her coming with you outside, i kind of get the feeling that you want her to think youre all trusting, and not a jealous guy, but you shouldnt let your girlfriend (who was drunk) sit on a couch with a drunk guy when she has offered to remove herself from that situation.

    maybe she cant explain it cause she doesnt remember, maybe in her mind she just sat there and doesnt even remember telling you she would leave, who knows, alcohol makes people do stupid things.

    Minus_83 on
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Get pissed at her for cheating when she cheats, not before.

    Improvolone on
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  • Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Minus_83 wrote: »
    Adda wrote: »
    When she offered to leave she was probably looking for an escape route, she might actually be pissed off with you for saying she could keep talking and wandering off again.

    yeah, thats the vibe id have gotten too, i dont get why you didnt say ok to her coming with you outside, i kind of get the feeling that you want her to think youre all trusting, and not a jealous guy, but you shouldnt let your girlfriend (who was drunk) sit on a couch with a drunk guy when she has offered to remove herself from that situation.

    maybe she cant explain it cause she doesnt remember, maybe in her mind she just sat there and doesnt even remember telling you she would leave, who knows, alcohol makes people do stupid things.

    I guess my thought process was I felt she was having a good conversation and I didn't want to mess that up. Yea, in hindsight I probably shoulda just said, "Ok. Lets go" at that moment.

    Penguin_Otaku on
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  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I think a "sorry I freaked, you didn't do anything wrong" is in order, toute suite.

    Improvolone on
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  • Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Well I don't feel I did anything wrong either. Being concerned about the situation and asking her about it was fine. We opened up to each other about some things we hadn't before and, like someone said, she didn't try to spin it.

    Penguin_Otaku on
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  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    You don't think you did anything wrong?

    I ask her outside what that was about because I'm pretty upset she'd never said anything to get him to stop. She said it meant nothing and her excuse was, "Well we were leaving soon anyway." I asked her what she meant and she said that because we were leaving soon, she knew it wasn't going to go anywhere. I asked her if that justified her not saying anything and she kinda felt like it did.

    That's a pretty straightforward attack the way that I read it. Sure she could have also said,, "sorry about that, I just didn't want to make a scene when we were leaving soon" right away, but she didn't.

    If neither of you think you did something wrong but you still got upset, then there is something wrong.

    Improvolone on
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  • TopweaselTopweasel Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Well I don't feel I did anything wrong either. Being concerned about the situation and asking her about it was fine. We opened up to each other about some things we hadn't before and, like someone said, she didn't try to spin it.

    I think your missing an opportunity. If you apologize and say she is right but that the shit bothers you. She will have won the battle but you could still win the war.

    Topweasel on
  • Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Improv: I can see how it seems like that. I mean, we were walking to the car and I was like, "What was that about?"

    Top: It shouldn't be a battle. I don't want this to continue further than this instance. There's no war or battle as far as I'm concerned.

    Penguin_Otaku on
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  • HypatiaHypatia Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    So I went outside where everyone was smoking and came back in to let her know we were gonna leave whenever she was ready. She offered to leave then and I said she could finish talking and just let me know. The guy was kind of looking seedy. So as I left I saw his arm behind her... and as I was walking away I saw him put it around her.

    This might be totally the wrong interpretation, but to me that seems like it might be a:

    Her: Yeah, I want to get out of this situation
    You: I know I said we can leave when you're ready, but I wasn't expecting you to say ok immediately, give me a few minutes and then I'll come back and be really ready to leave
    Her: Well crap, I'll just sit here and try to be nice until he gets back, because as soon as he gets back I can use that as an excuse to get the hell out of here

    Particularly when you told her she could finish talking and just let you know, you might have sort of blown her excuse to get away. Is she the kind of person who tries to be polite to people she doesn't like and might have a tough time getting out of a situation where someone's being overly aggressive? I'd kind of say you don't have anything to worry about, other than maybe working out with her a way for her to signal to you that she wants an out.

    Hypatia on
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    Let it go.

    ceres on
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    You need to learn to trust even though you have been burned before, because if you are paranoid and clingy, you will put any girl off, whether she is faithful or not. A single hug does not equal cheating.

    CelestialBadger on
  • Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Hypatia wrote: »
    So I went outside where everyone was smoking and came back in to let her know we were gonna leave whenever she was ready. She offered to leave then and I said she could finish talking and just let me know. The guy was kind of looking seedy. So as I left I saw his arm behind her... and as I was walking away I saw him put it around her.

    This might be totally the wrong interpretation, but to me that seems like it might be a:

    Her: Yeah, I want to get out of this situation
    You: I know I said we can leave when you're ready, but I wasn't expecting you to say ok immediately, give me a few minutes and then I'll come back and be really ready to leave
    Her: Well crap, I'll just sit here and try to be nice until he gets back, because as soon as he gets back I can use that as an excuse to get the hell out of here

    Particularly when you told her she could finish talking and just let you know, you might have sort of blown her excuse to get away. Is she the kind of person who tries to be polite to people she doesn't like and might have a tough time getting out of a situation where someone's being overly aggressive? I'd kind of say you don't have anything to worry about, other than maybe working out with her a way for her to signal to you that she wants an out.


    I think this is it more than anything. I failed to read a pretty clear signal and I think it does kinda fall back on me since she did offer to leave right then. She is a person who is always polite and doesn't really like to confront people, she even said so afterwards.

    Badger: It wasn't a hug. It was a clear move towards her. He wouldn't have gotten defensive afterwards if it had just been a hug.

    I agree, I should just let it go. If she'd meant anything by it she wouldn't have opened up like she did.

    Dick move by the other guy, but whatever. It's over. We'll probably never see him again.

    Penguin_Otaku on
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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    If you really think that's the case, you should definitely apologize if you were harsh.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I'm also getting the "get me outta here" vibe from the situation. Straight out ask her if that was the case, and if so apologize for not reading the signals and getting her out of an awkward situation.

    saint2e on
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  • Hey AshtrayHey Ashtray Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    You were both honest with each other, and no drama ensued. I'd say this went well, and that you both have a better understanding of each others' expectations because of it.

    Hey Ashtray on
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  • mullymully Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    "We've both been cheated on and have cheated before."

    You will never relax again, knowing these things! And neither will she. But all the power to you if for whatever reason this is the relationship that causes you guys to become non-cheating stand-up citizens.

    In any case. An arm around her? Seriously? You're going to freak out over that? That's a friendly gesture, dude, would you freak out if some guy hugged her? A hand on the toucus, sure, but this really isn't something you should've spazzed about -- unless of course you don't trust her because you know she's cheated before.

    mully on
  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    i dunno mully a hug usually lasts 5 secs top.

    my gf would definately not be thrilled if i sat next to a girl i didn't even know and held my arm around her for 10 minutes.

    not because she'd think i'd cheat on her, but because it's just weird.

    bwanie on
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  • Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I'll talk to her tonight about it since we've both calmed down and everything went fine yesterday and tell her looking back on it we should've left when she wanted out of the situation.

    And we've talked some before about past relationships and what's happened but not in length. I expressed my concerns and she said she understood and could relate. So, we're on the same page now.

    I'm fine with hugs. She gets hugs all the time, no biggy. But the arm around her waist, rubbing her back kind of thing is crossing a line I feel. No, I didn't think she was going to do anything but it just really caught me off guard.

    Penguin_Otaku on
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  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    A "stranger drunk guy putting his arm around my girl" would definitely upset me.

    RocketSauce on
  • GihgehlsGihgehls Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    She wanted out. Apologize to her for not getting the hint.

    Gihgehls on
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  • TopweaselTopweasel Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Improv: I can see how it seems like that. I mean, we were walking to the car and I was like, "What was that about?"

    Top: It shouldn't be a battle. I don't want this to continue further than this instance. There's no war or battle as far as I'm concerned.

    Don't be literal. What I am saying is people aren't always bugged or react the same way others will and there is always going to be a first time scenario. If this bugs and upsets you, use the opportunity to apologize for your previous overreaction and then explain why you reacted that way. If she is reasonable then if this happens again she might realize that while she doesn't get bothered by it, she will know it bothers you. Depending on how reasonable your issues are and her ability to reasonably assess the situation she might be more likely to get out of a situation like this.

    My point isn't to say your issues where wrong. But your reaction. Even if it wasn't. No one wants to be told what to do and how they should act. The hope in a relationship is to balance each other out. A good way to do that is to be reasonable (both parties) and make sure the other side knows what bothers them. Not every annoyance will be listened to, and most will have lapses, but sometimes its not that they need to agree with you but just know how you feel.

    Topweasel on
  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited November 2009
    Honestly it doesn't sound like she really wanted to deal with the aftermath of telling a drunk guy to get his hands off her; instead she probably wanted to deal with it quietly, either by telling you she was ready to go, or by simply not allowing it to go any farther than an arm on the back. Also keep in mind, a lot of people tend to be "touchy-feelies" who think that patting or rubbing someone on the back is somehow comforting and relaxing and a way of showing support and friendship; I am not one of those people and it doesn't sound like you are either, but Mr. Drunky McDrunkerson might have been.

    However I also don't think that you're completely wrong to be a little bothered by this; I've also been cheated on in the past and seeing someone put their arm around my boyfriend (or seeing my boyfriend put his arm around another girl) would definitely make some involuntary, irrational part of me go "rheee". But such a reaction is involuntary and irrational because hopefully you trust your girlfriend, and as that trust deepens, those reactions will become fewer and farther between.

    In order to deal with it: Tell your girlfriend that it initially bothered you to see this guy doing that, but that you trust her and you also trust her judgement in such situations. You might want to say (but only if it's true, because this is true of how I feel about it) that you're mainly bugged because she might be giving that guy the wrong idea, and might make him feel like she is flirting back by simply allowing the touch, so you'd appreciate it in the future if she'd draw the line a bit more sharply.

    Spacemilk on
  • mooshoeporkmooshoepork Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Gihgehls wrote: »
    She wanted out. Apologize to her for not getting the hint.

    Maybe true but she isn't a child. She probably should've confronted him.

    All in all though, not really a big deal.

    mooshoepork on
  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    ceres wrote: »
    Let it go.

    Penguin, you sort of asked us not to bring up the past gf posts, and I'm going to respect that this time, but I do want to allude to one thing that has always been a problem for you re: those past issues -- you hem and haw, prevaricate on reaching decisions and indeed seem to revel in focusing on the petty, meaningless details that, when over-emphasized, seem to highlight for you how there are no good answers and nothings simple and zomg drama!...

    ...stop it, buddy. You're being a drama queen. Maybe it's a habit you picked from your last girlfriend, who was also a drama queen -- or to put it another way, as you implied in your OP, a "picky bitch who demanded your attention all the time." But it's a habit you really ought to break.

    There's nothing here that's inherrently a problem that requires you to come up with a new paradigm for dealing with your life and relationships. It's just something we all have to accept in life -- if any of us are lucky enough to be in a relationship with someone we find alluringly attractive, he or she must accept somewhere someone else probably finds the same person attractive and additionally is, as likely as not, a douchebag. And that's okay.


    EDIT:

    On another note, I'm just throwing this out here both for Penguin_Otaku and for the added benefit of anyone else here who has a boyfriend or girlfriend, a husband or a wife: APOLOGIES ARE FREE AND COST YOU NOTHING. There are, indeed, some instances in which you should not apologize, but by itself "I don't feel like I did anything wrong" is actually not a good reason not to apologize -- that just means that the form of your apology should go like this: "I don't think I did anything wrong, but if I did, if I misinterpreted you or inadvertently hurt your feelings, then I'm sorry because I would never do that intentionally."

    SammyF on
  • Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Sam: I appreciate the sentiment but this is settled. There's no drama. It was a little hiccup. Get over yourself.

    You skimmed the posts before this and wanted to get on your soapbox. Step off it. I appreciate the attempt to help but I got it from here.

    I do ask, though, what you would do if someone put their arm around your significant other in a morethanfriendly manner for more than a reasonable amount of time (past a hug.)

    Even if it is just someone being "touchy feely" kind of person.

    Penguin_Otaku on
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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    Having been around for and more-than-skimmed your previous posts, Sammy didn't say anything bad, or even condescending. And he's right about pretty much everything. So stop being so defensive and take the advice in the spirit in which it was given. You're asking for advice in a forum that has seen rather a lot of you; if you want a perspective separate from the perception people here might already have of you, it might behoove you to try a different forum. Otherwise you may as well start your future posts with "Okay, now pretend you don't know me," or just post from an alt, because really man, rather a lot of you. You can't just ask everyone not to use what they know of you when they give advice.. why bother?

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2009
    SammyF wrote: »
    EDIT:

    On another note, I'm just throwing this out here both for Penguin_Otaku and for the added benefit of anyone else here who has a boyfriend or girlfriend, a husband or a wife: APOLOGIES ARE FREE AND COST YOU NOTHING. There are, indeed, some instances in which you should not apologize, but by itself "I don't feel like I did anything wrong" is actually not a good reason not to apologize -- that just means that the form of your apology should go like this: "I don't think I did anything wrong, but if I did, if I misinterpreted you or inadvertently hurt your feelings, then I'm sorry because I would never do that intentionally."

    So very, very true.
    I do ask, though, what you would do if someone put their arm around your significant other in a morethanfriendly manner for more than a reasonable amount of time (past a hug.)

    Even if it is just someone being "touchy feely" kind of person.

    Been there. Was a good friend of both of ours. Did nothin'. It's all about the context, man.

    (edit: in your case I would've done exactly what you didn't do: when she asked if you wanted to go, say "yeah" and then make a comment about touchy-feely dude and share a laugh when she says how glad she was that you got her out of that.)

    admanb on
  • SpacemilkSpacemilk Registered User
    edited November 2009
    I do ask, though, what you would do if someone put their arm around your significant other in a morethanfriendly manner for more than a reasonable amount of time (past a hug.)

    Even if it is just someone being "touchy feely" kind of person.
    I have been there in the sense that I have guy friends who try to put their arm around me; generally I deal with it by shifting my body so that the "hug" becomes a strain to maintain so they drop it fast. Either that or I will try to use other people to escape, either by saying I need to go talk to them, or by pulling the same thing your gf did: when my bf walks up I tell him I'm ready to go.

    I have also been in the situation where a girl got on my guy: This girl was my boyfriend's best friend's ex, and she had gone completely crazy after they broke up. Also, my bf's best friend would frequently warn me that this girl had always had the hots for my boyfriend, and I should watch out for her. So one night when we were out at a pub crawl and she walks up to my boyfriend, shoves her tits against his side, and tells him she wants to buy him a shot; I got a little upset initially. He tried to catch my attention to pull me over so he could do the whole "Hey this is my GIRLFRIEND" thing, but I was talking to someone else. I looked over in time to see her still suctioned to him, with his hands on her shoulder (he had been trying to push her off) so it looked a lot worse than it was. I had a brief rush of jealousy/fear/anger before I got ahold of myself and walked over to figure out what was going on. He succeeded in getting her off, he explained it to me, 5 seconds later we were all ok.

    In the end it comes down to: A hug is not a big deal. A hand on the back is not a big deal. Telling your girlfriend it kinda bothers you, so please try to avoid it if possible, is not a big deal.

    Making out? Sexing? Active flirting? Kinda a big deal. Try not to sweat the small stuff and your relationship will go a lot better.
    p.s. it's all small stuff 8-)

    Spacemilk on
  • AlyceInWonderlandAlyceInWonderland Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Just as SpaceMilk said, don't sweat the small stuff. Really, this whole situation wasn't a big deal. So long as she wasn't making out with the dude, or actively welcoming him to be all over her, it's really nothing to be worried about.

    AlyceInWonderland on
  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I do ask, though, what you would do if someone put their arm around your significant other in a morethanfriendly manner for more than a reasonable amount of time (past a hug.)

    Even if it is just someone being "touchy feely" kind of person.

    That's easy: I wouldn't do anything.

    This sort of thing happens to my wife literally all of the time. Her boss hits on her. Her co-workers hit on her. Our next-door neighbors hit on her. Sometimes her students hit on her, and she works with middle-schoolers. Those students parents hit on her. Even my fucking father sometimes hits on her, which, yeah, is pretty weird, but whatever. It doesn't happen because she's encouraging it; it happens because she's ridiculously hot, and ridiculously hot women frequently have other men make passes at them. Frequently these other men are douchebags because nice, normal people don't hit on a woman with a wedding ring, so sometimes they go further than I appreciate...but you know, whatever. It's not all about me, and it's certainly not her fault, so I need neither worry nor talk to her about it.

    Meanwhile, she appreciates the fact that I'm comfortable and confident enough in our marriage to not sit here biting my nails wondering if maybe she's going to call a phone number some guy gave her at a happy hour, just as she appreciates the fact that I don't condescend to think that she's not aware enough or capable enough to deflect someone else's drunken advances. Mrs. SammyF's not just a hottie; she's a smart cookie, and she knows how to take care of herself.

    Incidentally, I can also tell you from experience that none of the other roads you might go down besides "doing nothing" end anywhere you'd care to be.

    SammyF on
  • Hamster_styleHamster_style Registered User
    edited December 2009
    I'm just here to throw my lot in the "you should definitely apologize to her for not getting the hint" wagon. I completely agree with the statement that she was trying to get an out; all signs point to it - even though your description is from your perspective and not hers!

    I'm sure it'll all be fine if you do.

    Hamster_style on
  • cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I'm just a little sad because I guess this means the girl in that other Penguin thread didn't work out. The one who apparently wanted him bad.

    Anyway, apologize, take your lumps, etc.

    cooljammer00 on
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