KlatuAussie Aussie AussieOi Oi OiRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
I'll 2nd the Inquis. Fury/Warden asside I think the inquis is your best bet for what you're after. I know that they out solo templars with regards to speed of kills, I couldn't keep up with my inquis mate back in the day when I had my templar.
I may have to put my slider to 100% soon just so I can go to stormhold keep. I love that place and don't want to skip it
People that rely on the UI are lazy and want the UI to play the game for them.
This is a piss weak argument man. It's a computer game....it's leisure time. If you want tough manly shit why don't you go do some exercise or something.
I like to relax in these games...so lazy is pretty laughable as an argument as far as I'm concerned. Sure I'm lazy in my games. I love it!
Take your morals elsewhere, they have no place in these arguments and the only person who cares about them is you.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Really, guys, the UI thing is a dead horse. Yes, the game should have it, by any reasonable measure. SkyCaptain isn't reasonable though, in case that isn't readily apparent. He likely doesn't even understand the arguments you're making, and he clearly isn't making a good faith effort to do so. Just put him on ignore and move on.
Also, I had no idea there even was an AA slider. This is one of those things a better UI would make apparent. Awesome.
I figured you couldn't stay away after that passive aggressive bullshit you pulled earlier when you didn't respond to a single point of mine and picked out the single humorous one-liner in the post. The game doesn't need the level of scripting that Blizzard allows. It creates far more problems than it solves, making the devs jobs even harder. I understand all the arguments perfectly.
People that rely on the UI are lazy and want the UI to play the game for them.
Horse shit. Been playing mmo's since the olden days and having more information at your fingertips (threat meters, a mod that shows debuffs bigger than buffs, etc.) or make the UI a lot cleaner/user friendly (grid) are neither lazy, nor playing the game for you, nor remove any sort of skill you think you might have just because you're roughing it with your cluttered useless default UI not pushing your dps to the limit.
As for creating problems for the devs? What are you even talking about? Only a small handful of add ons in wow have proven problematic (off the top of my head, decursive, totem stompers, and recently some shit about rogue weapon swapping). Of the 3, only one wasn't a symptom of a retarded design decision that they didn't fix in the future.
You know what the bottom line is? The bottom line is that if you don't allow add-ons like you do for wow, all the people that like them? Aren't going to stick with your game. If you do allow addons, purists like you can still be purists (and you can go fuck yourself good sir if you want to trot out the old some guilds require add-on x line, go find one that doesn't) and modders can be happy as well. Everyone wins, as opposed to your idea, in which case you win. And your prize is a game population of 200k maybe, if you're lucky.
Unless you speak Korean/Chinese anyway, in which case you could play Aion or Lineage, the only other 3 games that to my knowledge have broken a million subs besides wow.
Arkady on
LoL: failboattootoot
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
In any other genre but mmo's what he's calling lazy would be considered user accessability and given hundreds of man hours of focus, with games rightfully criticised for failing to deliver a product that was easy to understand and get to grips with.
But oh no in an mmo that's lazy that is.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
In any other genre but mmo's what he's calling lazy would be considered user accessability and given hundreds of man hours of focus, with games rightfully criticised for failing to deliver a product that was easy to understand and get to grips with.
But oh no in an mmo that's lazy that is.
Hah, yeah. Back in my day we had
And until you got to level 35 you had to look at your spellbook to regain mana as a caster. Which looked like this
And this fucking thing would take up the entire window of viewable area in that first screenshot there, so you spent your first 35 levels not even watching combat while in a group, as it was stand cast, med, stand cast med.
And we were happy for it! All you whippersnappers with your action bars that can be hotkeyed and your more than 400 pixels of viewable space, bunch of babbies the lot of you.
Horse shit. Been playing mmo's since the olden days and having more information at your fingertips (threat meters, a mod that shows debuffs bigger than buffs, etc.) or make the UI a lot cleaner/user friendly (grid) are neither lazy, nor playing the game for you, nor remove any sort of skill you think you might have just because you're roughing it with your cluttered useless default UI not pushing your dps to the limit.
The EQ2 UI is not cluttered and nor is it useless. It's fine as is without any modification. They've actually added built in threat meters, which I think is horse shit. Part of the skill of playing a DPS class was monitoring your own aggro based on your own judgement and not some retarded threat meter telling you that you should back off a bit. Yes... that is lazy. Relying on a threat meter to tell you when you should slow down your DPS. I played EQ1 and I played a rogue back then. It was much more fun pacing myself and pushing it as far as I dared, never knowing if I would get a crit that would cause the monster to turn and splat me in a couple hits.
Now, you just mash buttons in a specific order planned out in advance for you by mathematical calculations and simulations performed in a safe environment with no chance of character death. Woohoo. So much fun. ::yawns::
As for creating problems for the devs? What are you even talking about? Only a small handful of add ons in wow have proven problematic (off the top of my head, decursive, totem stompers, and recently some shit about rogue weapon swapping). Of the 3, only one wasn't a symptom of a retarded design decision that they didn't fix in the future.
If the UI mods make encounters too easy, the devs will design future encounters around those UI mods, expecting that everyone uses them. Players will design new UI mods around the new encounters and you have another form of mudflation.
You know what the bottom line is? The bottom line is that if you don't allow add-ons like you do for wow, all the people that like them? Aren't going to stick with your game.
Good. I don't want to play with lazy fucks that can't play the game for themselves anyway. Hence, I don't play WoW.
If you do allow addons, purists like you can still be purists (and you can go fuck yourself good sir if you want to trot out the old some guilds require add-on x line, go find one that doesn't) and modders can be happy as well. Everyone wins, as opposed to your idea, in which case you win. And your prize is a game population of 200k maybe, if you're lucky.
Addons should never be required to play a game. That's just fucking retarded and creates as many problems as mudflation does. It's not about being a purist, it's about playing the game and not letting the game play itself for you. Finding an end-game guild that doesn't require certain addons that is attempting current end-game content would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack and most likely require you to pay money to transfer characters to their server, unless you're just damn lucky to have such a guild on your server already.
Unless you speak Korean/Chinese anyway, in which case you could play Aion or Lineage, the only other 3 games that to my knowledge have broken a million subs besides wow.
Blizzard and WoW are an aberration. Blizzard was the only game company that had an existing playerbase they could market WoW too. Blizzard was huge already before MMO's and their franchises were massive. No other game company in the world can do or will do what Blizzard did.
The success of WoW is an aberration in the MMO market and for true success, I point you towards Eve Online that has shown steady growth since launch and increasing record breaking numbers of concurrent users online.
It's horribly outdated (Apr 2008), but it still shows a steady upward climb for Eve Online, despite the fact that it's a brutal game that punishes you for the slightest mistake and doesn't have add-ons, threat meters, or ui modification. So your quip about players not playing a game unless it allows addons is you just dribbling stupidity onto the keyboard.
As for the EQ1 spellbook... yeah, that was a stupid decision by the devs. They eventually changed it. I'm not opposed to stupid UI's being refined, I'm just opposed to letting players script UI elements that play the game for the player.
SkyCaptain on
The RPG Bestiary - Dangerous foes and legendary monsters for D&D 4th Edition
Blizzard and WoW are an aberration. Blizzard was the only game company that had an existing playerbase they could market WoW too. Blizzard was huge already before MMO's and their franchises were massive. No other game company in the world can do or will do what Blizzard did.
The success of WoW is an aberration in the MMO market and for true success, I point you towards Eve Online that has shown steady growth since launch and increasing record breaking numbers of concurrent users online.
This is straight up false. You honestly think the same idiots WoW is so renowned for could handle diablo or starcraft? WoW succeeded because of 2 things. The first is based off of their previous base, and that is really good word of mouth. Blizzard fans are pretty hardcore in general (with good cause). But what got all the friends and family of these hardcore players who themselves have all the gaming skill of 6 year old is accessibility. No MMO before or since has ever been as easy to get into as WoW.
As for the rest of your post, meh. Enjoy your crazy opinions and your crappy UI. Except for this.
without any modification. They've actually added built in threat meters, which I think is horse shit. Part of the skill of playing a DPS class was monitoring your own aggro based on your own judgement and not some retarded threat meter telling you that you should back off a bit. Yes... that is lazy. Relying on a threat meter to tell you when you should slow down your DPS. I played EQ1 and I played a rogue back then. It was much more fun pacing myself and pushing it as far as I dared, never knowing if I would get a crit that would cause the monster to turn and splat me in a couple hits.
Now, you just mash buttons in a specific order planned out in advance for you by mathematical calculations and simulations performed in a safe environment with no chance of character death. Woohoo. So much fun. ::yawns::
This is straight up ass talking. There is no judgement call to be made on threat without a meter. There are 2 states, you either have it or you don't. Without a meter, you really have no fucking idea where your threat is in relation to a tank. You can make educated guesses on what not to do so as to avoid aggro, but essentially you have no fucking idea where you sit on the list until the tank dies and you find out once everyone ahead of you gets splattered.
And even then? Total ass pull. How far ahead of the healer were you? How far behind the other dps? Essentially the lack of a threat meter takes out the skill of the game. Before you were just kinda guessing, dropping abilities at random. you might feel like you're "riding the line," but the fact is, you have no idea where the line is. For all you know you could be doing 200, 300, 500 more dps than you are, but you aren't. Once you know where the line is, riding it takes a fair bit more finesse than just, ""oops I died, guess I'll stop doing X." Repeat until you cease to die.
Blizzard and WoW are an aberration. Blizzard was the only game company that had an existing playerbase they could market WoW too. Blizzard was huge already before MMO's and their franchises were massive. No other game company in the world can do or will do what Blizzard did.
The success of WoW is an aberration in the MMO market and for true success, I point you towards Eve Online that has shown steady growth since launch and increasing record breaking numbers of concurrent users online.
This is straight up false. You honestly think the same idiots WoW is so renowned for could handle diablo or starcraft? WoW succeeded because of 2 things. The first is based off of their previous base, and that is really good word of mouth. Blizzard fans are pretty hardcore in general (with good cause). But what got all the friends and family of these hardcore players who themselves have all the gaming skill of 6 year old is accessibility. No MMO before or since has ever been as easy to get into as WoW.
As for the rest of your post, meh. Enjoy your crazy opinions and your crappy UI. Except for this.
without any modification. They've actually added built in threat meters, which I think is horse shit. Part of the skill of playing a DPS class was monitoring your own aggro based on your own judgement and not some retarded threat meter telling you that you should back off a bit. Yes... that is lazy. Relying on a threat meter to tell you when you should slow down your DPS. I played EQ1 and I played a rogue back then. It was much more fun pacing myself and pushing it as far as I dared, never knowing if I would get a crit that would cause the monster to turn and splat me in a couple hits.
Now, you just mash buttons in a specific order planned out in advance for you by mathematical calculations and simulations performed in a safe environment with no chance of character death. Woohoo. So much fun. ::yawns::
This is straight up ass talking. There is no judgement call to be made on threat without a meter. There are 2 states, you either have it or you don't. Without a meter, you really have no fucking idea where your threat is in relation to a tank. You can make educated guesses on what not to do so as to avoid aggro, but essentially you have no fucking idea where you sit on the list until the tank dies and you find out once everyone ahead of you gets splattered.
And even then? Total ass pull. How far ahead of the healer were you? How far behind the other dps? Essentially the lack of a threat meter takes out the skill of the game. Before you were just kinda guessing, dropping abilities at random. you might feel like you're "riding the line," but the fact is, you have no idea where the line is. For all you know you could be doing 200, 300, 500 more dps than you are, but you aren't. Once you know where the line is, riding it takes a fair bit more finesse than just, ""oops I died, guess I'll stop doing X." Repeat until you cease to die.
Not that you'd know what your dps is anyhow.
I don't understand - you're saying that DPSing with a guide is harder than DPSing without a guide?
I don't understand - you're saying that DPSing with a guide is harder than DPSing without a guide?
I'm saying that dpsing without a meter is essentially luck. Any claims along the lines of well I do amazing dps and I do fine without meters is a load of crap, because, well, you don't have a meter. No way of knowing how close you were to dying, or how far ahead of you the tank was. You are at best making an educated guess and at worst, making shit up completely.
As opposed to knowing exactly where the line is. As an example, in WoW I play a melee class. The threshold to pull hate is 110% of tank threat. With omen, I can see the hard threat numbers and the comparable percentages. As such I can make informed decisions. I have spent more than 1 fight sitting at 109% of a tanks threat without going over.
This took skill. It took good class knowledge of how much threat each of my abilities generated and, knowing this, I maximized my dps to the absolute highest I could go without becoming a puddle on the ground. Anyone who claims to have done this sans meter is essentially claiming to be able to read tea leaves. The best you can ever say for sure is that you cocked up your ability use enough that you didn't die.
I don't understand - you're saying that DPSing with a guide is harder than DPSing without a guide?
I'm saying that dpsing without a meter is essentially luck. Any claims along the lines of well I do amazing dps and I do fine without meters is a load of crap, because, well, you don't have a meter. No way of knowing how close you were to dying, or how far ahead of you the tank was. You are at best making an educated guess and at worst, making shit up completely.
As opposed to knowing exactly where the line is. As an example, in WoW I play a melee class. The threshold to pull hate is 110% of tank threat. With omen, I can see the hard threat numbers and the comparable percentages. As such I can make informed decisions. I have spent more than 1 fight sitting at 109% of a tanks threat without going over.
This took skill. It took good class knowledge of how much threat each of my abilities generated and, knowing this, I maximized my dps to the absolute highest I could go without becoming a puddle on the ground. Anyone who claims to have done this sans meter is essentially claiming to be able to read tea leaves. The best you can ever say for sure is that you cocked up your ability use enough that you didn't die.
That is an extremely low bar to set.
I wasn't reading tea leaves and I can confidently say when I was playing EQ1, or when I played WoW, or DAoC, or whatever MMO the good DPS knew this line. They learned where it was set from teaming up with tanks - they knew that if a tank did aggro move A they would be allowed to get x off before they would get looked at by the mob.
After hundreds upon hundreds of hours of playing your character you'll come to meet that line - you will hop over it several times, and from those missteps and the knowledge thereafter you'll learn your 109% boundary quite well.
Having a meter is great, and allows for more consistency starting off, but not having a meter doesn't mean you're setting your sights low.
Ultimately when you're good either method will work fine.
I wasn't reading tea leaves and I can confidently say when I was playing EQ1, or when I played WoW, or DAoC, or whatever MMO the good DPS knew this line. They learned where it was set from teaming up with tanks - they knew that if a tank did aggro move A they would be allowed to get x off before they would get looked at by the mob.
After hundreds upon hundreds of hours of playing your character you'll come to meet that line - you will hop over it several times, and from those missteps and the knowledge thereafter you'll learn your 109% boundary quite well.
Having a meter is great, and allows for more consistency starting off, but not having a meter doesn't mean you're setting your sights low.
Ultimately when you're good either method will work fine.
Salmon'd for lies. You had no meter. Thus you have no way of knowing. You only think you do because things "died fast" and you didn't pull hate.
I wasn't reading tea leaves and I can confidently say when I was playing EQ1, or when I played WoW, or DAoC, or whatever MMO the good DPS knew this line. They learned where it was set from teaming up with tanks - they knew that if a tank did aggro move A they would be allowed to get x off before they would get looked at by the mob.
After hundreds upon hundreds of hours of playing your character you'll come to meet that line - you will hop over it several times, and from those missteps and the knowledge thereafter you'll learn your 109% boundary quite well.
Having a meter is great, and allows for more consistency starting off, but not having a meter doesn't mean you're setting your sights low.
Ultimately when you're good either method will work fine.
Salmon'd for lies. You had no meter. Thus you have no way of knowing. You only think you do because things "died fast" and you didn't pull hate.
Man, you could definitely get a feel for where the line was without aggro meters. The delineation between skilled players then was, "are you doing a decent amount of damage without pulling aggro" vs. "are you getting splatted/doing nothing." With meters, the skill difference is STILL there. Now it's just more precise, and the skilled players are the ones getting those last few drops of dps out without getting splatted. The possibility for exceptional play still exists, it's just not impossible for people to get somewhere without that skill.
Man, you could definitely get a feel for where the line was without aggro meters. The delineation between skilled players then was, "are you doing a decent amount of damage without pulling aggro" vs. "are you getting splatted/doing nothing." With meters, the skill difference is STILL there. Now it's just more precise, and the skilled players are the ones getting those last few drops of dps out without getting splatted. The possibility for exceptional play still exists, it's just not impossible for people to get somewhere without that skill.
I don't think we were debating whether or not meters take skill - just that it was possible to find the line without a meter.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
I know I've been able to do fine in other MMOs without the meter. After awhile you get a feel for your character and just how far your can push the bar. There were always (crazy)people doing the math and coming out with lists of abilities to use and in what order. It's not like maxing DPS vs. Aggro was impossible before, the meter just made it a hell of a lot easier.
edit- I know other MMOs have mods that add threat meters, but I think it should become standard from now on. Very handy to have.
And until you got to level 35 you had to look at your spellbook to regain mana as a caster. Which looked like this
And this fucking thing would take up the entire window of viewable area in that first screenshot there, so you spent your first 35 levels not even watching combat while in a group, as it was stand cast, med, stand cast med.
And we were happy for it! All you whippersnappers with your action bars that can be hotkeyed and your more than 400 pixels of viewable space, bunch of babbies the lot of you.
Hahaha, that takes me back. Ah man, good times. And we were happy for it! We had to corpse run up hill, both ways, in the snow! :P
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I know I've been able to do fine in other MMOs without the meter. After awhile you get a feel for your character and just how far your can push the bar. There were always (crazy)people doing the math and coming out with lists of abilities to use and in what order. It's not like maxing DPS vs. Aggro was impossible before, the meter just made it a hell of a lot easier.
edit- I know other MMOs have mods that add threat meters, but I think it should become standard from now on. Very handy to have.
And until you got to level 35 you had to look at your spellbook to regain mana as a caster. Which looked like this
And this fucking thing would take up the entire window of viewable area in that first screenshot there, so you spent your first 35 levels not even watching combat while in a group, as it was stand cast, med, stand cast med.
And we were happy for it! All you whippersnappers with your action bars that can be hotkeyed and your more than 400 pixels of viewable space, bunch of babbies the lot of you.
Hahaha, that takes me back. Ah man, good times. And we were happy for it! We had to corpse run up hill, both ways, in the snow! :P
At least you could drag the corpse of your friends around...
making that damn macro is how you learn how macros work.
And this fucking thing would take up the entire window of viewable area in that first screenshot there, so you spent your first 35 levels not even watching combat while in a group, as it was stand cast, med, stand cast med.
And we were happy for it! All you whippersnappers with your action bars that can be hotkeyed and your more than 400 pixels of viewable space, bunch of babbies the lot of you.
Hahaha, that takes me back. Ah man, good times. And we were happy for it! We had to corpse run up hill, both ways, in the snow! :P
At least you could drag the corpse of your friends around...
making that damn macro is how you learn how macros work.
I remember I used to get begged for SoW all the time on my shaman, so I'd go anon, and then I'd be bombarded with Clarity begging. Of course, it's not like casting a buff on someone was a big deal. But half these clowns would want you to run clear across the zone to cast it on them (or in some cases, multiple zones away).
Sure, guy. I'll leave my group in Kedge and come to you to cast Clarity with my Shaman. Meet me at the commons tunnel in 5 minutes. I'll be there. I promise.
This is straight up false. You honestly think the same idiots WoW is so renowned for could handle diablo or starcraft? WoW succeeded because of 2 things. The first is based off of their previous base, and that is really good word of mouth. Blizzard fans are pretty hardcore in general (with good cause). But what got all the friends and family of these hardcore players who themselves have all the gaming skill of 6 year old is accessibility. No MMO before or since has ever been as easy to get into as WoW.
If SOE made an mmo as easy to play as WoW, it would not have been as successful regardless of any word of mouth crap you're dribbling. Blizzard had the fanbase. They had the brand name. No other game company had that kind of set up. The conditions for WoW's success were laid long before anyone knew whether or not it was going to be difficult to play.
This is straight up ass talking. There is no judgement call to be made on threat without a meter. There are 2 states, you either have it or you don't. Without a meter, you really have no fucking idea where your threat is in relation to a tank. You can make educated guesses on what not to do so as to avoid aggro, but essentially you have no fucking idea where you sit on the list until the tank dies and you find out once everyone ahead of you gets splattered.
And even then? Total ass pull. How far ahead of the healer were you? How far behind the other dps? Essentially the lack of a threat meter takes out the skill of the game. Before you were just kinda guessing, dropping abilities at random. you might feel like you're "riding the line," but the fact is, you have no idea where the line is. For all you know you could be doing 200, 300, 500 more dps than you are, but you aren't. Once you know where the line is, riding it takes a fair bit more finesse than just, ""oops I died, guess I'll stop doing X." Repeat until you cease to die.
Not that you'd know what your dps is anyhow.
We didn't need to know our dps back then. We didn't need threat meters back then. We didn't need any of this hand holding bullshit because we were just that damned good. As a rogue, I guarantee you that I knew precisely how much "dps" I could do to stay ahead of the healer, but behind the tank. It was a learned skill you earned as you leveled up and grouped with the same people regularly.
I knew for a fact how much I had to hold back based on a tanks gear and reputation or if I could go all out and not worry. It made playing the game much more interesting and engaging, because I had to pay attention. I had to watch to see if the tank missed a taunt and back off a bit or pour on the dps if the healer got a crit heal.
I didn't need a threat meter to play the game for me. I learned what my character could do and couldn't do. That kind of skill earned you a reputation and earned you group invites into highly contested farming groups deep inside difficult dungeons. Not that I miss camping and farming. That was boring as fuck all.
With threat meters and dps charts and every single variable known in WoW, it's no longer a measure of skill. It's a contest between who downloaded the the right mods and read the right thread in the right forum and setup their hotkeys and macro's to copy what others have already done.
End game raiding is too structured. Not enough randomness to fuck with players and the piece of shit UI Mods that play the game for the raiders. The ones that broadcast when and where to move. What to do when and how. Not to mention the ui elements that lets healers see the buffs and debuffs of every single person in the raid and one-click decurse/cure that person.
I'd much rather see games use less UI elements and focus more on graphic changes to the models to display their status. Let the healers see the game they play instead of the UI elements that display buffs, debuffs, and health bars.
SkyCaptain on
The RPG Bestiary - Dangerous foes and legendary monsters for D&D 4th Edition
I've been sort of half reading this whole stupid thing that's been going on back and forth. Personally, I think SkyCaptain is getting way to high and mighty about old school gaming. The genera has evolved, deal the fuck with it. I'm not gonna go into an all out flame war, mostly because I don't want to get jailed, but also because that's not really the spirit of this forum.
But, I must agree with this point you just made. I loved the days when people knew their classes inside and out, blindfolded, with their hands cut off. It did make the games more fun, it did just make shit cool.
Sadly, that's not how these games are made any more. If they are? They fail, or have minute player bases. Its a bummer yes, but no need to go waving the burning flag around, screaming about the days of old.
We're here to discuss EQ2, and have fun. I know I am no body to you, or to anyone on here, but just dial it back guys. There is no need to fill pages of this thread with useless banter. Some UI things would be cool, hell, I play EQ2 with zero UI mods, and it never bothered me. I play WoW with extensive mods, because it makes the UI easier for me to use (multiple visible bars in places I want them, a feature EQ2 already has built in).
Just turn the e-peen holyer then thou old gamer shit down a touch. Lets all be like the hippies and hold hands and sing kum-by-ah. Its a game. This is a game forum. We don't need to argue over the internet. No one wins, and we all look like retards.
I might get infracted for this, but, I'd just rather see EQ2 discussion then some bullshit about what game is better and why. Or why EQ2 fails because of its UI. Talk about the game failing because of some factor that has some kind of substance.
Jesus Christ what the fuck happened in here? I can't even read the novels up there and I don't even give a shit what they're about.
So how are the shield and weapon appearance slots?
To answer this (and hopefully get back on track)...
They are totally awesome, I use a random katana looking sword as my 1h sword appearance slot, and some Dai-Katana I found for my 2h. I do still use thie glowing scarab shield...
I should probably get names for all of these...if anyone is interested, I'll grab the names.
I'm basically a giant cat, in bronze armor and monk pants running around with katana's, bringing down the holy vengeance...
Anon the Felon on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
There's a nice instance which gives you an awesome whip as an appearance only item.
I regularly hunt around for items to use on my characters as appearances. Once I get my hands on a nice one hander again I have a black whip stashed in my bank for my warden to use.
:winky:
edit: I actually meant to post that the whole instance is appearance and house items and it's awesome, but somehow forgot to.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Even evolution has its dead ends and imo, WoW's UI should be one of them.
But, I must agree with this point you just made. I loved the days when people knew their classes inside and out, blindfolded, with their hands cut off. It did make the games more fun, it did just make shit cool.
That's my whole point about the UI playing the game for you. You don't have to know your class. All you have to know is where to find the right information and use the right UI and the game plays itself. There's even mods that tell you which quests to take in what order and what items to buy to maximize xp gain in the quickest method possible.
There's no exploration in games anymore like there used to be, except by a very, very few people and the time required to be part of them is disproportionate to the rewards.
SkyCaptain on
The RPG Bestiary - Dangerous foes and legendary monsters for D&D 4th Edition
There's a nice instance which gives you an awesome whip as an appearance only item.
I regularly hunt around for items to use on my characters as appearances. Once I get my hands on a nice one hander again I have a black whip stashed in my bank for my warden to use.
:winky:
edit: I actually meant to post that the whole instance is appearance and house items and it's awesome, but somehow forgot to.
Which instance is this, and is it max level?
Darkewolfe on
What is this I don't even.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
EQ2: The Shadow Oddysey is 5.99 usd on steam right now until Jan 3rd. This is the all in one pack, so EQ2 is basically 5.99 right now. I just bought it, I didn't have to download it (you acn if you want), I could get the access key and tied it to my current station account so now I have the shadow oddysey.
@Darkewolf: Shard of Love no longer requires an access quest and is available to zone in from a portal at the end of everfrost docks (opposite the zone in bell).
It's a three man instance. Scales to your level from 50-80 (which includes mentored level, so you can mentor down 5 levels, zone in and then unmentor to make it easier to do)
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Does the AA experience bar only update at certain intervals? It seems that I can kill a bunch of guys (with my slider set at 100% to AA experience), and it won't budge, but then it'll suddenly jump up like 4% after one kill.
Does the AA experience bar only update at certain intervals? It seems that I can kill a bunch of guys (with my slider set at 100% to AA experience), and it won't budge, but then it'll suddenly jump up like 4% after one kill.
It may be that the math behind what's shown on the default UI bar isn't too precise. Individual mobs don't give much, maybe it's just rounding oddly. (In other words, no I haven't seen it happen myself, sorry.) Assuming you haven't installed a custom UI, I'd recommend adding DrumsUI Experience Window, which is a simple mod of the xp window that shows more detail (and decimal point percentages).
Edit: Also, Drumstix42 has a number of other neat little mods that don't change any major functions but do remove a great deal of the extra space around the default UI's windows. He also has a full-blown replacement UI but I haven't used it, since the default UI mostly works fine for me.
HarshLanguage on
> turn on light Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
Does the AA experience bar only update at certain intervals? It seems that I can kill a bunch of guys (with my slider set at 100% to AA experience), and it won't budge, but then it'll suddenly jump up like 4% after one kill.
It may be that the math behind what's shown on the default UI bar isn't too precise. Individual mobs don't give much, maybe it's just rounding oddly. (In other words, no I haven't seen it happen myself, sorry.) Assuming you haven't installed a custom UI, I'd recommend adding DrumsUI Experience Window, which is a simple mod of the xp window that shows more detail (and decimal point percentages).
Yeah, I noticed the same thing both with and without a mod (in fact, I just installed DrumsUI this afternoon; I like it quite a bit). The bar won't even move, either. It's strange. Kill, kill, kill, nothing. Kill, +5%. And it's always an integer; no fractions/decimals.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
I've seen that too Serial.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Did they also get rid of the grand master spell selection every 10 levels? I've played a handful of characters up to level 20 or so, now, and haven't received that option on any of them.
Did they also get rid of the grand master spell selection every 10 levels? I've played a handful of characters up to level 20 or so, now, and haven't received that option on any of them.
Nope, you should have opened up your first selection at level 14 (next at 24, etc). I think they've moved them since you last played, though. Racial innates, racial traits, character traits, and the spell training are all together on the Character Development tab, next to the AA tabs.
I'm on as Nerrin starting the tradeskill quests in Lavastorm, if anyone needs anything.
HarshLanguage on
> turn on light Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Did they also get rid of the grand master spell selection every 10 levels? I've played a handful of characters up to level 20 or so, now, and haven't received that option on any of them.
It's still there, under the AA page (Character Development tab). Just scroll down and down and down. :P
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
On the fence about starting AQ20 right now. I want new armor, but I'm also thinking of going back and doing some grey quests for AA experience.
I personally didn't bother with the AQ20 since for like 1g I got armor that was much better on the AH. YMMV I suppose.
I like it just because, even if the stats suck, it's something to stick in the cosmetic slots so that I don't look like I'm wearing a clown suit.
Ah well, there is that I suppose. I'm actually wearing a full suit of Frostfell gear I got from grinding tokens. The grinding didn't take long at all really.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
On the fence about starting AQ20 right now. I want new armor, but I'm also thinking of going back and doing some grey quests for AA experience.
I personally didn't bother with the AQ20 since for like 1g I got armor that was much better on the AH. YMMV I suppose.
I like it just because, even if the stats suck, it's something to stick in the cosmetic slots so that I don't look like I'm wearing a clown suit.
Ah well, there is that I suppose. I'm actually wearing a full suit of Frostfell gear I got from grinding tokens. The grinding didn't take long at all really.
Not as long as you do the Hard version. That's like 25 tokens per run. Easy gives maybe 10. That Frostfell gear is actually good, too.
HarshLanguage on
> turn on light Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
I still have nightmares about the Freeport, AQ20 quests, there are some places you ahve to go that no person in their right mind goes to, i mean the deep sewers where there isn't anything at all ? really great place to put that quest mob.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
I still have nightmares about the Freeport, AQ20 quests, there are some places you ahve to go that no person in their right mind goes to, i mean the deep sewers where there isn't anything at all ? really great place to put that quest mob.
Yeah, I did it on my bruiser a few days ago.
To start, you need a ^ heroic mob. Then you get sent into the sewers that're below the sewers that're below the other sewers in Freeport. And there, the sewers you're in are like a maze, with no map. And the mobs you need are separated by a bunch of mobs that will beat the living hell out of anyone who's actually on-level for that quest.
To tell the truth, I don't mind the dangerous environments nearly as much as I mind the "oh, here's a solo quest chain - let's add a heroic mob that the player needs to kill!" I kind of like the danger/difficulty.
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I may have to put my slider to 100% soon just so I can go to stormhold keep. I love that place and don't want to skip it
This is a piss weak argument man. It's a computer game....it's leisure time. If you want tough manly shit why don't you go do some exercise or something.
I like to relax in these games...so lazy is pretty laughable as an argument as far as I'm concerned. Sure I'm lazy in my games. I love it!
Take your morals elsewhere, they have no place in these arguments and the only person who cares about them is you.
Horse shit. Been playing mmo's since the olden days and having more information at your fingertips (threat meters, a mod that shows debuffs bigger than buffs, etc.) or make the UI a lot cleaner/user friendly (grid) are neither lazy, nor playing the game for you, nor remove any sort of skill you think you might have just because you're roughing it with your cluttered useless default UI not pushing your dps to the limit.
As for creating problems for the devs? What are you even talking about? Only a small handful of add ons in wow have proven problematic (off the top of my head, decursive, totem stompers, and recently some shit about rogue weapon swapping). Of the 3, only one wasn't a symptom of a retarded design decision that they didn't fix in the future.
You know what the bottom line is? The bottom line is that if you don't allow add-ons like you do for wow, all the people that like them? Aren't going to stick with your game. If you do allow addons, purists like you can still be purists (and you can go fuck yourself good sir if you want to trot out the old some guilds require add-on x line, go find one that doesn't) and modders can be happy as well. Everyone wins, as opposed to your idea, in which case you win. And your prize is a game population of 200k maybe, if you're lucky.
Unless you speak Korean/Chinese anyway, in which case you could play Aion or Lineage, the only other 3 games that to my knowledge have broken a million subs besides wow.
LoL: failboattootoot
But oh no in an mmo that's lazy that is.
Hah, yeah. Back in my day we had
And until you got to level 35 you had to look at your spellbook to regain mana as a caster. Which looked like this
And this fucking thing would take up the entire window of viewable area in that first screenshot there, so you spent your first 35 levels not even watching combat while in a group, as it was stand cast, med, stand cast med.
And we were happy for it! All you whippersnappers with your action bars that can be hotkeyed and your more than 400 pixels of viewable space, bunch of babbies the lot of you.
LoL: failboattootoot
Now, you just mash buttons in a specific order planned out in advance for you by mathematical calculations and simulations performed in a safe environment with no chance of character death. Woohoo. So much fun. ::yawns::
If the UI mods make encounters too easy, the devs will design future encounters around those UI mods, expecting that everyone uses them. Players will design new UI mods around the new encounters and you have another form of mudflation.
Good. I don't want to play with lazy fucks that can't play the game for themselves anyway. Hence, I don't play WoW.
Addons should never be required to play a game. That's just fucking retarded and creates as many problems as mudflation does. It's not about being a purist, it's about playing the game and not letting the game play itself for you. Finding an end-game guild that doesn't require certain addons that is attempting current end-game content would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack and most likely require you to pay money to transfer characters to their server, unless you're just damn lucky to have such a guild on your server already.
Blizzard and WoW are an aberration. Blizzard was the only game company that had an existing playerbase they could market WoW too. Blizzard was huge already before MMO's and their franchises were massive. No other game company in the world can do or will do what Blizzard did.
The success of WoW is an aberration in the MMO market and for true success, I point you towards Eve Online that has shown steady growth since launch and increasing record breaking numbers of concurrent users online.
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html
It's horribly outdated (Apr 2008), but it still shows a steady upward climb for Eve Online, despite the fact that it's a brutal game that punishes you for the slightest mistake and doesn't have add-ons, threat meters, or ui modification. So your quip about players not playing a game unless it allows addons is you just dribbling stupidity onto the keyboard.
As for the EQ1 spellbook... yeah, that was a stupid decision by the devs. They eventually changed it. I'm not opposed to stupid UI's being refined, I'm just opposed to letting players script UI elements that play the game for the player.
This is straight up false. You honestly think the same idiots WoW is so renowned for could handle diablo or starcraft? WoW succeeded because of 2 things. The first is based off of their previous base, and that is really good word of mouth. Blizzard fans are pretty hardcore in general (with good cause). But what got all the friends and family of these hardcore players who themselves have all the gaming skill of 6 year old is accessibility. No MMO before or since has ever been as easy to get into as WoW.
As for the rest of your post, meh. Enjoy your crazy opinions and your crappy UI. Except for this.
This is straight up ass talking. There is no judgement call to be made on threat without a meter. There are 2 states, you either have it or you don't. Without a meter, you really have no fucking idea where your threat is in relation to a tank. You can make educated guesses on what not to do so as to avoid aggro, but essentially you have no fucking idea where you sit on the list until the tank dies and you find out once everyone ahead of you gets splattered.
And even then? Total ass pull. How far ahead of the healer were you? How far behind the other dps? Essentially the lack of a threat meter takes out the skill of the game. Before you were just kinda guessing, dropping abilities at random. you might feel like you're "riding the line," but the fact is, you have no idea where the line is. For all you know you could be doing 200, 300, 500 more dps than you are, but you aren't. Once you know where the line is, riding it takes a fair bit more finesse than just, ""oops I died, guess I'll stop doing X." Repeat until you cease to die.
Not that you'd know what your dps is anyhow.
LoL: failboattootoot
I don't understand - you're saying that DPSing with a guide is harder than DPSing without a guide?
I'm saying that dpsing without a meter is essentially luck. Any claims along the lines of well I do amazing dps and I do fine without meters is a load of crap, because, well, you don't have a meter. No way of knowing how close you were to dying, or how far ahead of you the tank was. You are at best making an educated guess and at worst, making shit up completely.
As opposed to knowing exactly where the line is. As an example, in WoW I play a melee class. The threshold to pull hate is 110% of tank threat. With omen, I can see the hard threat numbers and the comparable percentages. As such I can make informed decisions. I have spent more than 1 fight sitting at 109% of a tanks threat without going over.
This took skill. It took good class knowledge of how much threat each of my abilities generated and, knowing this, I maximized my dps to the absolute highest I could go without becoming a puddle on the ground. Anyone who claims to have done this sans meter is essentially claiming to be able to read tea leaves. The best you can ever say for sure is that you cocked up your ability use enough that you didn't die.
That is an extremely low bar to set.
LoL: failboattootoot
I wasn't reading tea leaves and I can confidently say when I was playing EQ1, or when I played WoW, or DAoC, or whatever MMO the good DPS knew this line. They learned where it was set from teaming up with tanks - they knew that if a tank did aggro move A they would be allowed to get x off before they would get looked at by the mob.
After hundreds upon hundreds of hours of playing your character you'll come to meet that line - you will hop over it several times, and from those missteps and the knowledge thereafter you'll learn your 109% boundary quite well.
Having a meter is great, and allows for more consistency starting off, but not having a meter doesn't mean you're setting your sights low.
Ultimately when you're good either method will work fine.
Salmon'd for lies. You had no meter. Thus you have no way of knowing. You only think you do because things "died fast" and you didn't pull hate.
LoL: failboattootoot
Alright, you win.
I don't think we were debating whether or not meters take skill - just that it was possible to find the line without a meter.
edit- I know other MMOs have mods that add threat meters, but I think it should become standard from now on. Very handy to have.
edit 2-
Hahaha, that takes me back. Ah man, good times. And we were happy for it! We had to corpse run up hill, both ways, in the snow! :P
So how are the shield and weapon appearance slots?
At least you could drag the corpse of your friends around...
making that damn macro is how you learn how macros work.
I remember I used to get begged for SoW all the time on my shaman, so I'd go anon, and then I'd be bombarded with Clarity begging. Of course, it's not like casting a buff on someone was a big deal. But half these clowns would want you to run clear across the zone to cast it on them (or in some cases, multiple zones away).
Sure, guy. I'll leave my group in Kedge and come to you to cast Clarity with my Shaman. Meet me at the commons tunnel in 5 minutes. I'll be there. I promise.
We didn't need to know our dps back then. We didn't need threat meters back then. We didn't need any of this hand holding bullshit because we were just that damned good. As a rogue, I guarantee you that I knew precisely how much "dps" I could do to stay ahead of the healer, but behind the tank. It was a learned skill you earned as you leveled up and grouped with the same people regularly.
I knew for a fact how much I had to hold back based on a tanks gear and reputation or if I could go all out and not worry. It made playing the game much more interesting and engaging, because I had to pay attention. I had to watch to see if the tank missed a taunt and back off a bit or pour on the dps if the healer got a crit heal.
I didn't need a threat meter to play the game for me. I learned what my character could do and couldn't do. That kind of skill earned you a reputation and earned you group invites into highly contested farming groups deep inside difficult dungeons. Not that I miss camping and farming. That was boring as fuck all.
With threat meters and dps charts and every single variable known in WoW, it's no longer a measure of skill. It's a contest between who downloaded the the right mods and read the right thread in the right forum and setup their hotkeys and macro's to copy what others have already done.
End game raiding is too structured. Not enough randomness to fuck with players and the piece of shit UI Mods that play the game for the raiders. The ones that broadcast when and where to move. What to do when and how. Not to mention the ui elements that lets healers see the buffs and debuffs of every single person in the raid and one-click decurse/cure that person.
I'd much rather see games use less UI elements and focus more on graphic changes to the models to display their status. Let the healers see the game they play instead of the UI elements that display buffs, debuffs, and health bars.
But, I must agree with this point you just made. I loved the days when people knew their classes inside and out, blindfolded, with their hands cut off. It did make the games more fun, it did just make shit cool.
Sadly, that's not how these games are made any more. If they are? They fail, or have minute player bases. Its a bummer yes, but no need to go waving the burning flag around, screaming about the days of old.
We're here to discuss EQ2, and have fun. I know I am no body to you, or to anyone on here, but just dial it back guys. There is no need to fill pages of this thread with useless banter. Some UI things would be cool, hell, I play EQ2 with zero UI mods, and it never bothered me. I play WoW with extensive mods, because it makes the UI easier for me to use (multiple visible bars in places I want them, a feature EQ2 already has built in).
Just turn the e-peen holyer then thou old gamer shit down a touch. Lets all be like the hippies and hold hands and sing kum-by-ah. Its a game. This is a game forum. We don't need to argue over the internet. No one wins, and we all look like retards.
I might get infracted for this, but, I'd just rather see EQ2 discussion then some bullshit about what game is better and why. Or why EQ2 fails because of its UI. Talk about the game failing because of some factor that has some kind of substance.
To answer this (and hopefully get back on track)...
They are totally awesome, I use a random katana looking sword as my 1h sword appearance slot, and some Dai-Katana I found for my 2h. I do still use thie glowing scarab shield...
I should probably get names for all of these...if anyone is interested, I'll grab the names.
I'm basically a giant cat, in bronze armor and monk pants running around with katana's, bringing down the holy vengeance...
I regularly hunt around for items to use on my characters as appearances. Once I get my hands on a nice one hander again I have a black whip stashed in my bank for my warden to use.
:winky:
edit: I actually meant to post that the whole instance is appearance and house items and it's awesome, but somehow forgot to.
That's my whole point about the UI playing the game for you. You don't have to know your class. All you have to know is where to find the right information and use the right UI and the game plays itself. There's even mods that tell you which quests to take in what order and what items to buy to maximize xp gain in the quickest method possible.
There's no exploration in games anymore like there used to be, except by a very, very few people and the time required to be part of them is disproportionate to the rewards.
Which instance is this, and is it max level?
@Darkewolf: Shard of Love no longer requires an access quest and is available to zone in from a portal at the end of everfrost docks (opposite the zone in bell).
It's a three man instance. Scales to your level from 50-80 (which includes mentored level, so you can mentor down 5 levels, zone in and then unmentor to make it easier to do)
It may be that the math behind what's shown on the default UI bar isn't too precise. Individual mobs don't give much, maybe it's just rounding oddly. (In other words, no I haven't seen it happen myself, sorry.) Assuming you haven't installed a custom UI, I'd recommend adding DrumsUI Experience Window, which is a simple mod of the xp window that shows more detail (and decimal point percentages).
Edit: Also, Drumstix42 has a number of other neat little mods that don't change any major functions but do remove a great deal of the extra space around the default UI's windows. He also has a full-blown replacement UI but I haven't used it, since the default UI mostly works fine for me.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
Yeah, I noticed the same thing both with and without a mod (in fact, I just installed DrumsUI this afternoon; I like it quite a bit). The bar won't even move, either. It's strange. Kill, kill, kill, nothing. Kill, +5%. And it's always an integer; no fractions/decimals.
Nope, you should have opened up your first selection at level 14 (next at 24, etc). I think they've moved them since you last played, though. Racial innates, racial traits, character traits, and the spell training are all together on the Character Development tab, next to the AA tabs.
I'm on as Nerrin starting the tradeskill quests in Lavastorm, if anyone needs anything.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
It's still there, under the AA page (Character Development tab). Just scroll down and down and down. :P
Thanks, guys.
On the fence about starting AQ20 right now. I want new armor, but I'm also thinking of going back and doing some grey quests for AA experience.
I personally didn't bother with the AQ20 since for like 1g I got armor that was much better on the AH. YMMV I suppose.
I like it just because, even if the stats suck, it's something to stick in the cosmetic slots so that I don't look like I'm wearing a clown suit.
Ah well, there is that I suppose. I'm actually wearing a full suit of Frostfell gear I got from grinding tokens. The grinding didn't take long at all really.
Not as long as you do the Hard version. That's like 25 tokens per run. Easy gives maybe 10. That Frostfell gear is actually good, too.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
Yeah, I did it on my bruiser a few days ago.
To start, you need a ^ heroic mob. Then you get sent into the sewers that're below the sewers that're below the other sewers in Freeport. And there, the sewers you're in are like a maze, with no map. And the mobs you need are separated by a bunch of mobs that will beat the living hell out of anyone who's actually on-level for that quest.
To tell the truth, I don't mind the dangerous environments nearly as much as I mind the "oh, here's a solo quest chain - let's add a heroic mob that the player needs to kill!" I kind of like the danger/difficulty.