Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Team Nope-tress 2

2456763

Posts

  • DeMoNDeMoN Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    We should totally compile all our excellent ideas into a letter to Valve. And by all our excellent ideas I mean that one Kupi just said.

    And "One does not simply PUSH CART into THE FINAL TERMINUS AH HAAAA HA HA HA HA"

    Should definitely be a heavy line.

    PSN: Toxic_Cizzle Steam id : Toxic Cizzle
    *TyCart*_banner.jpg
  • PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Compiling awesome ideas and sending them to a developer unsolicited will always end with them throwing away your awesome ideas. So don't bother.

    wAgWt.jpg
  • EndaroEndaro Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I think we need more maps. We have plenty of fine maps, but quite a lot of maps that no one can stand which lead to server deaths and shitty vote possibilities. I think we could use a higher percentage of maps that people can stand.

    I've never made a tf2 map before, but I have made a few L4D maps, which is a comparable system. Hopefully, with some help from you guys for play testing and balance, we can get a few more maps in the rotation. I don't care about a map being popular elsewhere, I just think our servers could use more.

    Moonshine turned out great (in my opinion), and I think supports my point of a need for more maps. Unfortunately, last I heard Hey You got burned out on Moonshine and the Halloween maps. Ebo is also working on a map right now (speaking of which, how is it going Ebo?).

    If I were to work on a map, what would you guys like in map? It seems to me Granary and Gravelpit are generally the most liked and least disliked on the servers, so I'm leaning towards a style like either one.

  • DeMoNDeMoN Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    We can just post it on their forums a lot! That's how they came up with the Equalizer.

    PSN: Toxic_Cizzle Steam id : Toxic Cizzle
    *TyCart*_banner.jpg
  • T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Gravelpit maps needed.

    my twitter | beats music
    I made a bad game! Download it scrubs.
    Keep it Up!: iOS Android
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2010
    How about a semi-balanced map that isn't full of terrible gimmick shit.

    How about that?

    Custom maps are lacking in those two things.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    More maps like 2fort.

    wAgWt.jpg
  • T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Pancake wrote: »
    More maps like 2fort.

    In fact I've got this idea for a map with a bridge over some water in the middle and two symmetrical bases on either side of that bridge. Maybe some tunnels underneath or something.

    my twitter | beats music
    I made a bad game! Download it scrubs.
    Keep it Up!: iOS Android
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2010
    Oh I know. CTF map where engineers can't build next to spawns or in the intel room.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I am one refined metal from my first real hat.

  • DeMoNDeMoN Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    L|ama wrote: »
    I am one refined metal from my first real hat.

    I'm 3!

    :?

    though I do have a batter's helmet, and I love it so.

    PSN: Toxic_Cizzle Steam id : Toxic Cizzle
    *TyCart*_banner.jpg
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited January 2010
    endaro! i would love one of those style maps -- and I agree in your general line of thinking.

    I too was tossing around the idea of picking up hammer, but alas I don't think I will. if you styled after gravelpit or granary, I think you couldn't lose with either honestly. good luck!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2010
    L|ama wrote: »
    I am one refined metal from my first real hat.
    I'm half away.

    From my I don't even know 50th?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Someone should make a map that somehow makes CTF not completely and utterly terrible.

    wAgWt.jpg
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Pancake wrote: »
    Someone should make a map that somehow makes CTF not completely and utterly terrible.

    So a map that doesn't have the CTF gametype at all?

  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2010
    Goomba wrote: »
    Oh I know. CTF map where engineers can't build next to spawns or in the intel room.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    tf2 needs a(nother?) push-style ctf map

    the enemy intel starts in your base, and vice-versa, and your cap point is in the enemy base, and vice-versa

    set the cap limit to something relatively high (I'm thinking 5 instead of the usual 2 or 3), and cap the spawn times at 12 seconds

    this would work

    It's an easy game to hate
  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2010
    Yeah payload race works pretty great oh wa-

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    PLR has a limit of one cap per map, which means that the team that gets ahead first wins that map, about 95% of the time, with no recourse for the opposing team

    also it is on a fixed track, which is dumb

    but the main difference is definitely allowing for more than one cap

    It's an easy game to hate
  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Oh hey look a guide

    So you want to play competitive tf2?

    This guide will set up you up with the basics on how to get in on some quick 6v6 competitive play without having to committ to a clan, schedule, practice, etc. This is purely for 6v6 and not Highlander (9v9 with a class limit of 1 for each class) because I do not believe highlander has their own pug gather system yet.

    PUG stands for Pick Up Group, which is what it sounds like; A group of players interested in playing a tight 6v6 game. The 'gather' system is a system built into the #tf2.pug IRC channel that automatically assembles players who've opted in into teams and provides a server with league rules to play on.

    This is done through 2 programs:

    -Mumble, for voice chat
    -IRC, for the gather system.

    Personally, I love getting in a few 6v6 matches here and there, especially when the PA servers are empty. It's active at all times of the day, and you'll be set against players of a wide range of skill, ranging from merely interested folk like maybe yourself, to ESEA and CEVO level players.

    As well, I think the gather system is a great way for people who knock 6v6 or have the wrong impressions about it to try it out for themselves and see what people like myself mean when we described it as just another level of play.

    IRC
    Open up your preferred IRC client it, be it something like mibbit.com or mIRC.

    You need to connect to the irc.gamesurge.net server, and go into channel #tf2.pug

    There is also a #tf2.pug.na channel, but its regulars are a bit more advanced, most coming from the top place teams, so #tf2.pug is much more entry level, which is what you'll want if you're looking to get into 6v6. Being immediately put up against slardel when you're a scout isn't going to do much good for your skills or your love of the game.

    Mumble
    Mumble is a third party voice chat software similar to Ventrilo and is used for communicating with your teammates during the match. Every team, clan, what have you uses a third party voice chat program instead of the ingame voice because it allows you to communicate when you are dead ingame.

    Mumble is preferred over Ventrilo because of its ease of use and it provides several nifty features like an ingame overlay and pop-up messages telling you who's coming and going.

    Download Mumble Here

    Once installed it just needs some basic set up, and will ask you to create a certificate. Just enter in a name and an email, and then save it on your Desktop or any other place you keep misc. files.

    Once you have Mumble set up, you will want to hit 'Add New' and enter in the relevant information. The tf2pug mumble server is:

    Voice server IP : mumble.tf2pug.org:64738
    Password : tf2pug

    You'll want to keep the username you use in mumble and the server the same as the one you use ingame and in the tf2pug IRC channel so you can be easily identified. You will also want to stay in the 'Root' channel until you are assigned a game. Each of the respective channels (Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta) are server locations and each have a Red and Blue channel which you'll use during the matches

    It may ask you if you want to run Mumble in compatibility mode when entering the server, just say yes to that.

    First thing you'll want to do is make sure your Mumble is set to 'Push to Talk' instead of 'Voice Activity'. If you have it set to 'Voice Activity', your mic will turn on whenever you say anything without having to press a button, which can be annoying for your teammates.

    Just goto Configure > Settings
    settiings.jpg

    and under Audio Input changed the Transmit drop down box to Push to Talk. Hit Apply.
    settings2.jpg

    Then goto Shortcuts along the left side, and hit add. It will add a new field into the white box. Double click on the 'Unassigned' and change it to Push to Talk, then double click the blank field under shortcut and select what button you want to use with the voice activation.
    settings3.jpg

    And that's it!


    ***

    Getting into a match
    So now that that is all set up, you're ready to look for a game.

    Once you enter the #tf2.pug channel, the first thing you typically do is type !players
    playersn.jpg

    This will show you everyone who is queued up to play and what as. Because this is basic 6v6, the class layout that is supported in the pug channel is:
    2 Scouts
    2 Soldiers
    1 Demo
    1 Medic

    Once there are enough of the above for two teams, the game will start. To add yourself to the queue, just type !add [yourclass]
    addm.jpg

    I am now added to the match queue.

    Now you simply wait. The queue will fill up with 12 players, and the following message will appear
    38862784.jpg

    It will then sort you into teams
    teamso.jpg

    You may sometimes get a message similar to this:
    readyl.jpg

    All you have to do is type !ready into the #tf2.pug channel and it will leave you in the match

    Your final message will be:
    22648206.jpg

    This provides the ip and password of the server you will be playing on, but as well as the mumble room you will be using. In this instance, I will be using the Altanta 1 room, under Red team. Connect to the ip, get on your assigned team, and wait for everyone else to get ready


    The Game
    So as we know, the standard class make up is as follows:
    2 Scouts
    2 Soldiers
    1 Demo
    1 Medic

    Demo and medic are limited to 1 per team, and everything else is limited to 2, but you won't see much deviation from this. The most common change is one scout switching to sniper on maps like badlands, gravelpit, or well. Heavies and engies are rare but still appear when some last ditch defense is needed
    on gravelpit or badlands, typically when you're down to your last point. Pyros and spies are sometimes used to try and kill the opposing team's medic quickly in a clutch play situation.

    The maps you will be playing on mostly are:
    cp_badlands
    cp_granary
    cp_follower
    cp_well
    cp_gravelpit
    sometimes cp_yukon

    These are the maps that have just been found to be the most balanced and enjoyable, offering some great back and forth play over the center and second to last points. cp_follower is a custom map that combines the spawn areas of granary with a middle area similar to badlands. It is very fun and worth having in your maps folder.

    In terms of gameplay, no matter what class you are, conservation is the key. The only outright battles you'll be fighting are in the opening minutes on the middle point and in pushes (either uber, counter, or when opposing team's medic is down). With everything else, you should be holding back, building uber, sticking with teammates and trying to pick off a few members of the enemy team. Never try to engage alone unless you're a decent scout. Attempting to jump into a group of opposing players alone will only get you killed again and again.

    Hit and run strategies are never frowned upon, and knowing when to fight and when to fall back is a key skill you'll need to learn quickly.

    As well, the opening moments of the game, where each team are heading to the middle, are critical. You'll soon pick up on the paths each class takes for each map, but generally scouts and demos should arrive first, with soldiers and medic not far behind, with medic sitting at about 50-60% uber. As a soldier/demo, you really should only be walking the last few bits of the map towards the center, the rest should consist of rocket/sticky jumping. The medic will heal you as you go down.

    The following are some general strategies and expectations from the standard classeS:

    Scout
    -Typically, unless stated otherwise, the two scouts are supposed to act as 'roamers': They move away from the rest of the team and work in tandem to try and take out the enemy medic or pick off fleeing soldiers/demos.
    -They also play a crucial role in the opening of the game, as they will, along with the demo, be the first people to get to the middle point, where they will engage the opposing scouts/demo for about ten to twenty seconds. Any kills or damage that can be done during this time is integral for your team's position post-mid-fight.
    -Do not try to engage a combo (soldier + medic) alone
    -Engage demo + medic combos, try to get into close and try to take out the medic or jump around him and peck off the medic if you can
    -When all else fails, just kill the medic. You are expected to die much more than anyone else, but if you get this one job done, it is worth it in spades.

    Soldier
    -You and the other soldier are the blunt force of the team. You deal the damage, jump the jumps, and protect the medic.
    -The soldiers are typically designated as pocket and roamer.
    -Pocket soldier stays with the medic and protects him from everybody. He is not expected to go rocket jumping onto points or pushing the objective (unless the medic has an uber)
    -The Roamer is exactly that, he has some leeway to rocket jump onto points and push without a medic, but typically, unless he wants to get screwed over, he will stay close to the pocket combo or the team demo
    -Pockets should always use the normal rocket launcher and shotgun as it is the best to counter to scouts
    -Roamers can use the DH if they're good but it's not expected.
    -You should know how to rocket jump everywhere. This takes practice.
    -Airshots are balla and will look nice in your frag videos

    Demo
    -You got to know the sticky jumps. For pretty much all the maps listed above, you must be able to sticky jump decently enough to get to the middle point at the same time the scouts would, or just behind them. This is particularly critical on badlands and granary, where a good few stickes set up at where the enemy team are coming out could decide who gets mid.
    -You're a bigger damage dealer than the soldiers, and can fire more indirect. But you're all alone, so you dieing is kind of a big deal. Hang back and spam pipes into the middle point, and sticky up essential chokepoints.
    -This pretty much applies for both attack and defense.
    -Stickying up chokepoints is particularly essential when you're getting pushed back. A sticky trap on the gates on cp_well can pratically turn the game to your favor.
    -Personally not a big demo, so can't say much either way, but you have to be fairly competent in sticky usage and knowing when and where to fight, but also how to use your regular pipes to smack down scouts and soldiers

    Medic
    -You're the key to a lot of what goes on. Your uber and kritz are essential, and your death means your team is unsupported and will probably get pushed in on.
    -That said, hang back. Stick with your pocket soldier at all times, don't try to advance ahead of him
    -Scream ungodly sounds into the mic when being attacked
    -Don't pull out your needlegun or saw unless you are completely and utterly alone and there is nowhere to run to. You will have people defending you, your job is to keep them up and to build the uber/kritz
    -Jump a lot
    -You can pop your uber if you're in trouble, no one will blame you, just stay alive.


    That just about covers the basics of it.

    GotFrag has a great page that goes a little more indepth not just into general strategy, but particular strategies for specific maps and such

    Click here for GotFrag's Tips & Tricks section

    Of particular interest should be Jaeger's general tips and tricks videos. There's only 5 so far, but they look at some specifics that are definitely worth knowing if you're looking to persue this type of gameplay a bit further

    Tips & Tricks Volume 1 - Scout Energy Drink
    - A few points about the Bonk, although the recent Valve fix made the first-person tip impossible :(
    Tips & Tricks Volume 2 - Soldier Jumps on cp_gravepit, point C
    - Examples of how to quickly get up the C tower on cp_gravelpit out the left and ride side of spawn.
    Tips & Tricks Volume 3 - Spamming Through Doors on cp_frieght
    - This is technically a glitch, and is not allowed by ESEA.
    Tips & Tricks Volume 4 - Pre-firing Rockets
    - Some safety tips for soldiers about spamming around corners.
    Tips & Tricks Volume 5 - Medic Healing
    - A little love for our healers as guest star creepin outlines the basic healing order, and why.


    Now it's time for....


    !!!PRO VIDEOS!!!



    Feel free to PM me or post with any questions or clarifications.

    SteamID- Enders || SC2 ID - BurningCrome.721 || Blogging - Laputan Machine
    1385396-1.png
    Orikae! |RS| : why is everyone yelling 'enders is dead go'
    When I say pop it that means pop it
    heavy.gif
  • T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I watch those and I kind of miss comp soldier

    And then I remember why I left comp play and don't miss it anymore and sit with my new engineer love in a corner

    my twitter | beats music
    I made a bad game! Download it scrubs.
    Keep it Up!: iOS Android
  • NaloutoNalouto Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Pretty sweet guide,

    and the EXACT reason I don't like playing TF2...

    Strategy, pfffffffff.

    :winky:
    louzorz.jpg
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited January 2010
    Oh hey look a guide

    So you want to play competitive tf2?
    This guide will set up you up with the basics on how to get in on some quick 6v6 competitive play without having to committ to a clan, schedule, practice, etc. This is purely for 6v6 and not Highlander (9v9 with a class limit of 1 for each class) because I do not believe highlander has their own pug gather system yet.

    PUG stands for Pick Up Group, which is what it sounds like; A group of players interested in playing a tight 6v6 game. The 'gather' system is a system built into the #tf2.pug IRC channel that automatically assembles players who've opted in into teams and provides a server with league rules to play on.

    This is done through 2 programs:

    -Mumble, for voice chat
    -IRC, for the gather system.

    Personally, I love getting in a few 6v6 matches here and there, especially when the PA servers are empty. It's active at all times of the day, and you'll be set against players of a wide range of skill, ranging from merely interested folk like maybe yourself, to ESEA and CEVO level players.

    As well, I think the gather system is a great way for people who knock 6v6 or have the wrong impressions about it to try it out for themselves and see what people like myself mean when we described it as just another level of play.

    IRC
    Open up your preferred IRC client it, be it something like mibbit.com or mIRC.

    You need to connect to the irc.gamesurge.net server, and go into channel #tf2.pug

    There is also a #tf2.pug.na channel, but its regulars are a bit more advanced, most coming from the top place teams, so #tf2.pug is much more entry level, which is what you'll want if you're looking to get into 6v6. Being immediately put up against slardel when you're a scout isn't going to do much good for your skills or your love of the game.

    Mumble
    Mumble is a third party voice chat software similar to Ventrilo and is used for communicating with your teammates during the match. Every team, clan, what have you uses a third party voice chat program instead of the ingame voice because it allows you to communicate when you are dead ingame.

    Mumble is preferred over Ventrilo because of its ease of use and it provides several nifty features like an ingame overlay and pop-up messages telling you who's coming and going.

    Download Mumble Here

    Once installed it just needs some basic set up, and will ask you to create a certificate. Just enter in a name and an email, and then save it on your Desktop or any other place you keep misc. files.

    Once you have Mumble set up, you will want to hit 'Add New' and enter in the relevant information. The tf2pug mumble server is:

    Voice server IP : mumble.tf2pug.org:64738
    Password : tf2pug

    You'll want to keep the username you use in mumble and the server the same as the one you use ingame and in the tf2pug IRC channel so you can be easily identified. You will also want to stay in the 'Root' channel until you are assigned a game. Each of the respective channels (Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta) are server locations and each have a Red and Blue channel which you'll use during the matches

    It may ask you if you want to run Mumble in compatibility mode when entering the server, just say yes to that.

    First thing you'll want to do is make sure your Mumble is set to 'Push to Talk' instead of 'Voice Activity'. If you have it set to 'Voice Activity', your mic will turn on whenever you say anything without having to press a button, which can be annoying for your teammates.

    Just goto Configure > Settings
    settiings.jpg

    and under Audio Input changed the Transmit drop down box to Push to Talk. Hit Apply.
    settings2.jpg

    Then goto Shortcuts along the left side, and hit add. It will add a new field into the white box. Double click on the 'Unassigned' and change it to Push to Talk, then double click the blank field under shortcut and select what button you want to use with the voice activation.
    settings3.jpg

    And that's it!


    ***

    Getting into a match
    So now that that is all set up, you're ready to look for a game.

    Once you enter the #tf2.pug channel, the first thing you typically do is type !players
    playersn.jpg

    This will show you everyone who is queued up to play and what as. Because this is basic 6v6, the class layout that is supported in the pug channel is:
    2 Scouts
    2 Soldiers
    1 Demo
    1 Medic

    Once there are enough of the above for two teams, the game will start. To add yourself to the queue, just type !add [yourclass]
    addm.jpg

    I am now added to the match queue.

    Now you simply wait. The queue will fill up with 12 players, and the following message will appear
    38862784.jpg

    It will then sort you into teams
    teamso.jpg

    You may sometimes get a message similar to this:
    readyl.jpg

    All you have to do is type !ready into the #tf2.pug channel and it will leave you in the match

    Your final message will be:
    22648206.jpg

    This provides the ip and password of the server you will be playing on, but as well as the mumble room you will be using. In this instance, I will be using the Altanta 1 room, under Red team. Connect to the ip, get on your assigned team, and wait for everyone else to get ready


    The Game
    So as we know, the standard class make up is as follows:
    2 Scouts
    2 Soldiers
    1 Demo
    1 Medic

    Demo and medic are limited to 1 per team, and everything else is limited to 2, but you won't see much deviation from this. The most common change is one scout switching to sniper on maps like badlands, gravelpit, or well. Heavies and engies are rare but still appear when some last ditch defense is needed
    on gravelpit or badlands, typically when you're down to your last point. Pyros and spies are sometimes used to try and kill the opposing team's medic quickly in a clutch play situation.

    The maps you will be playing on mostly are:
    cp_badlands
    cp_granary
    cp_follower
    cp_well
    cp_gravelpit
    sometimes cp_yukon

    These are the maps that have just been found to be the most balanced and enjoyable, offering some great back and forth play over the center and second to last points. cp_follower is a custom map that combines the spawn areas of granary with a middle area similar to badlands. It is very fun and worth having in your maps folder.

    In terms of gameplay, no matter what class you are, conservation is the key. The only outright battles you'll be fighting are in the opening minutes on the middle point and in pushes (either uber, counter, or when opposing team's medic is down). With everything else, you should be holding back, building uber, sticking with teammates and trying to pick off a few members of the enemy team. Never try to engage alone unless you're a decent scout. Attempting to jump into a group of opposing players alone will only get you killed again and again.

    Hit and run strategies are never frowned upon, and knowing when to fight and when to fall back is a key skill you'll need to learn quickly.

    As well, the opening moments of the game, where each team are heading to the middle, are critical. You'll soon pick up on the paths each class takes for each map, but generally scouts and demos should arrive first, with soldiers and medic not far behind, with medic sitting at about 50-60% uber. As a soldier/demo, you really should only be walking the last few bits of the map towards the center, the rest should consist of rocket/sticky jumping. The medic will heal you as you go down.

    The following are some general strategies and expectations from the standard classeS:

    Scout
    -Typically, unless stated otherwise, the two scouts are supposed to act as 'roamers': They move away from the rest of the team and work in tandem to try and take out the enemy medic or pick off fleeing soldiers/demos.
    -They also play a crucial role in the opening of the game, as they will, along with the demo, be the first people to get to the middle point, where they will engage the opposing scouts/demo for about ten to twenty seconds. Any kills or damage that can be done during this time is integral for your team's position post-mid-fight.
    -Do not try to engage a combo (soldier + medic) alone
    -Engage demo + medic combos, try to get into close and try to take out the medic or jump around him and peck off the medic if you can
    -When all else fails, just kill the medic. You are expected to die much more than anyone else, but if you get this one job done, it is worth it in spades.

    Soldier
    -You and the other soldier are the blunt force of the team. You deal the damage, jump the jumps, and protect the medic.
    -The soldiers are typically designated as pocket and roamer.
    -Pocket soldier stays with the medic and protects him from everybody. He is not expected to go rocket jumping onto points or pushing the objective (unless the medic has an uber)
    -The Roamer is exactly that, he has some leeway to rocket jump onto points and push without a medic, but typically, unless he wants to get screwed over, he will stay close to the pocket combo or the team demo
    -Pockets should always use the normal rocket launcher and shotgun as it is the best to counter to scouts
    -Roamers can use the DH if they're good but it's not expected.
    -You should know how to rocket jump everywhere. This takes practice.
    -Airshots are balla and will look nice in your frag videos

    Demo
    -You got to know the sticky jumps. For pretty much all the maps listed above, you must be able to sticky jump decently enough to get to the middle point at the same time the scouts would, or just behind them. This is particularly critical on badlands and granary, where a good few stickes set up at where the enemy team are coming out could decide who gets mid.
    -You're a bigger damage dealer than the soldiers, and can fire more indirect. But you're all alone, so you dieing is kind of a big deal. Hang back and spam pipes into the middle point, and sticky up essential chokepoints.
    -This pretty much applies for both attack and defense.
    -Stickying up chokepoints is particularly essential when you're getting pushed back. A sticky trap on the gates on cp_well can pratically turn the game to your favor.
    -Personally not a big demo, so can't say much either way, but you have to be fairly competent in sticky usage and knowing when and where to fight, but also how to use your regular pipes to smack down scouts and soldiers

    Medic
    -You're the key to a lot of what goes on. Your uber and kritz are essential, and your death means your team is unsupported and will probably get pushed in on.
    -That said, hang back. Stick with your pocket soldier at all times, don't try to advance ahead of him
    -Scream ungodly sounds into the mic when being attacked
    -Don't pull out your needlegun or saw unless you are completely and utterly alone and there is nowhere to run to. You will have people defending you, your job is to keep them up and to build the uber/kritz
    -Jump a lot
    -You can pop your uber if you're in trouble, no one will blame you, just stay alive.


    That just about covers the basics of it.

    GotFrag has a great page that goes a little more indepth not just into general strategy, but particular strategies for specific maps and such

    Click here for GotFrag's Tips & Tricks section

    Of particular interest should be Jaeger's general tips and tricks videos. There's only 5 so far, but they look at some specifics that are definitely worth knowing if you're looking to persue this type of gameplay a bit further

    Tips & Tricks Volume 1 - Scout Energy Drink
    - A few points about the Bonk, although the recent Valve fix made the first-person tip impossible :(
    Tips & Tricks Volume 2 - Soldier Jumps on cp_gravepit, point C
    - Examples of how to quickly get up the C tower on cp_gravelpit out the left and ride side of spawn.
    Tips & Tricks Volume 3 - Spamming Through Doors on cp_frieght
    - This is technically a glitch, and is not allowed by ESEA.
    Tips & Tricks Volume 4 - Pre-firing Rockets
    - Some safety tips for soldiers about spamming around corners.
    Tips & Tricks Volume 5 - Medic Healing
    - A little love for our healers as guest star creepin outlines the basic healing order, and why.


    Now it's time for....


    !!!PRO VIDEOS!!!



    Feel free to PM me or post with any questions or clarifications.

    really good guide, just quick, and I think I know the answer to this, being able to talk in mumble and not only listen is key, correct?

    so I would probably want to fix and/or buy a new mic before I did any of this? or would just listening in on the voip be good enough?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    If you're the medic or captain or acting captain it's imperative you talk.

    Ideally everyone needs to talk but we had subs from the larger clan on occasion that didn't always have mics and as long as you can take orders well you'll do fine.

    my twitter | beats music
    I made a bad game! Download it scrubs.
    Keep it Up!: iOS Android
  • PMAversPMAvers GomorraRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that the best map would be one that would automatically slay Goomba when he spawns. Every time.

    persona4celestia.jpg
    COME FORTH, AMATERASU!
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    What? No heavies in standard play? I'm a little surprised, heavies would eat scouts like babies.

  • T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Simply put, they move too slow.

    my twitter | beats music
    I made a bad game! Download it scrubs.
    Keep it Up!: iOS Android
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    T4CT wrote: »
    Simply put, they move too slow.

    then they arent playing heavy right....

    yeh, he's slow, but it isnt HORRIBLE, unless you spend most of your time spun up....

  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The thing about heavy is not only is he slow, meaning he won't be much of an impact in the mid fight, but he's also a big target. Even with a medic, 2 soldiers and demo targeting him and he'll go down fast. As well, most of the fights tend to happen at mid range, which isn't the heavies strong point. He also needs the medic tied to him essentially. The cons outweigh the pros here.
    really good guide, just quick, and I think I know the answer to this, being able to talk in mumble and not only listen is key, correct?

    so I would probably want to fix and/or buy a new mic before I did any of this? or would just listening in on the voip be good enough?

    Listening is fine for this pug stuff, unless you're a medic, but if you're looking to get into clans or any kind of organized play, you'll need a mic

    SteamID- Enders || SC2 ID - BurningCrome.721 || Blogging - Laputan Machine
    1385396-1.png
    Orikae! |RS| : why is everyone yelling 'enders is dead go'
    When I say pop it that means pop it
    heavy.gif
  • T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    In comp play where eveyone knows what they're doing and is either a scout, medic or can powerjump? Heavy is too slow. That's why, like the guide says, you only see them as a last ditch effort for final point defense.

    It's worth noting that in clutch situations it's one of the scouts that is expected to switch classes.

    my twitter | beats music
    I made a bad game! Download it scrubs.
    Keep it Up!: iOS Android
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    besides empty servers, its bothered me that only 4 classes are considered useful in the "competitive" mode.

  • redheadredhead Registered User
    edited January 2010
    Oh hey look a guide

    So you want to play competitive tf2?
    This guide will set up you up with the basics on how to get in on some quick 6v6 competitive play without having to committ to a clan, schedule, practice, etc. This is purely for 6v6 and not Highlander (9v9 with a class limit of 1 for each class) because I do not believe highlander has their own pug gather system yet.

    PUG stands for Pick Up Group, which is what it sounds like; A group of players interested in playing a tight 6v6 game. The 'gather' system is a system built into the #tf2.pug IRC channel that automatically assembles players who've opted in into teams and provides a server with league rules to play on.

    This is done through 2 programs:

    -Mumble, for voice chat
    -IRC, for the gather system.

    Personally, I love getting in a few 6v6 matches here and there, especially when the PA servers are empty. It's active at all times of the day, and you'll be set against players of a wide range of skill, ranging from merely interested folk like maybe yourself, to ESEA and CEVO level players.

    As well, I think the gather system is a great way for people who knock 6v6 or have the wrong impressions about it to try it out for themselves and see what people like myself mean when we described it as just another level of play.

    IRC
    Open up your preferred IRC client it, be it something like mibbit.com or mIRC.

    You need to connect to the irc.gamesurge.net server, and go into channel #tf2.pug

    There is also a #tf2.pug.na channel, but its regulars are a bit more advanced, most coming from the top place teams, so #tf2.pug is much more entry level, which is what you'll want if you're looking to get into 6v6. Being immediately put up against slardel when you're a scout isn't going to do much good for your skills or your love of the game.

    Mumble
    Mumble is a third party voice chat software similar to Ventrilo and is used for communicating with your teammates during the match. Every team, clan, what have you uses a third party voice chat program instead of the ingame voice because it allows you to communicate when you are dead ingame.

    Mumble is preferred over Ventrilo because of its ease of use and it provides several nifty features like an ingame overlay and pop-up messages telling you who's coming and going.

    Download Mumble Here

    Once installed it just needs some basic set up, and will ask you to create a certificate. Just enter in a name and an email, and then save it on your Desktop or any other place you keep misc. files.

    Once you have Mumble set up, you will want to hit 'Add New' and enter in the relevant information. The tf2pug mumble server is:

    Voice server IP : mumble.tf2pug.org:64738
    Password : tf2pug

    You'll want to keep the username you use in mumble and the server the same as the one you use ingame and in the tf2pug IRC channel so you can be easily identified. You will also want to stay in the 'Root' channel until you are assigned a game. Each of the respective channels (Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta) are server locations and each have a Red and Blue channel which you'll use during the matches

    It may ask you if you want to run Mumble in compatibility mode when entering the server, just say yes to that.

    First thing you'll want to do is make sure your Mumble is set to 'Push to Talk' instead of 'Voice Activity'. If you have it set to 'Voice Activity', your mic will turn on whenever you say anything without having to press a button, which can be annoying for your teammates.

    Just goto Configure > Settings
    settiings.jpg

    and under Audio Input changed the Transmit drop down box to Push to Talk. Hit Apply.
    settings2.jpg

    Then goto Shortcuts along the left side, and hit add. It will add a new field into the white box. Double click on the 'Unassigned' and change it to Push to Talk, then double click the blank field under shortcut and select what button you want to use with the voice activation.
    settings3.jpg

    And that's it!


    ***

    Getting into a match
    So now that that is all set up, you're ready to look for a game.

    Once you enter the #tf2.pug channel, the first thing you typically do is type !players
    playersn.jpg

    This will show you everyone who is queued up to play and what as. Because this is basic 6v6, the class layout that is supported in the pug channel is:
    2 Scouts
    2 Soldiers
    1 Demo
    1 Medic

    Once there are enough of the above for two teams, the game will start. To add yourself to the queue, just type !add [yourclass]
    addm.jpg

    I am now added to the match queue.

    Now you simply wait. The queue will fill up with 12 players, and the following message will appear
    38862784.jpg

    It will then sort you into teams
    teamso.jpg

    You may sometimes get a message similar to this:
    readyl.jpg

    All you have to do is type !ready into the #tf2.pug channel and it will leave you in the match

    Your final message will be:
    22648206.jpg

    This provides the ip and password of the server you will be playing on, but as well as the mumble room you will be using. In this instance, I will be using the Altanta 1 room, under Red team. Connect to the ip, get on your assigned team, and wait for everyone else to get ready


    The Game
    So as we know, the standard class make up is as follows:
    2 Scouts
    2 Soldiers
    1 Demo
    1 Medic

    Demo and medic are limited to 1 per team, and everything else is limited to 2, but you won't see much deviation from this. The most common change is one scout switching to sniper on maps like badlands, gravelpit, or well. Heavies and engies are rare but still appear when some last ditch defense is needed
    on gravelpit or badlands, typically when you're down to your last point. Pyros and spies are sometimes used to try and kill the opposing team's medic quickly in a clutch play situation.

    The maps you will be playing on mostly are:
    cp_badlands
    cp_granary
    cp_follower
    cp_well
    cp_gravelpit
    sometimes cp_yukon

    These are the maps that have just been found to be the most balanced and enjoyable, offering some great back and forth play over the center and second to last points. cp_follower is a custom map that combines the spawn areas of granary with a middle area similar to badlands. It is very fun and worth having in your maps folder.

    In terms of gameplay, no matter what class you are, conservation is the key. The only outright battles you'll be fighting are in the opening minutes on the middle point and in pushes (either uber, counter, or when opposing team's medic is down). With everything else, you should be holding back, building uber, sticking with teammates and trying to pick off a few members of the enemy team. Never try to engage alone unless you're a decent scout. Attempting to jump into a group of opposing players alone will only get you killed again and again.

    Hit and run strategies are never frowned upon, and knowing when to fight and when to fall back is a key skill you'll need to learn quickly.

    As well, the opening moments of the game, where each team are heading to the middle, are critical. You'll soon pick up on the paths each class takes for each map, but generally scouts and demos should arrive first, with soldiers and medic not far behind, with medic sitting at about 50-60% uber. As a soldier/demo, you really should only be walking the last few bits of the map towards the center, the rest should consist of rocket/sticky jumping. The medic will heal you as you go down.

    The following are some general strategies and expectations from the standard classeS:

    Scout
    -Typically, unless stated otherwise, the two scouts are supposed to act as 'roamers': They move away from the rest of the team and work in tandem to try and take out the enemy medic or pick off fleeing soldiers/demos.
    -They also play a crucial role in the opening of the game, as they will, along with the demo, be the first people to get to the middle point, where they will engage the opposing scouts/demo for about ten to twenty seconds. Any kills or damage that can be done during this time is integral for your team's position post-mid-fight.
    -Do not try to engage a combo (soldier + medic) alone
    -Engage demo + medic combos, try to get into close and try to take out the medic or jump around him and peck off the medic if you can
    -When all else fails, just kill the medic. You are expected to die much more than anyone else, but if you get this one job done, it is worth it in spades.

    Soldier
    -You and the other soldier are the blunt force of the team. You deal the damage, jump the jumps, and protect the medic.
    -The soldiers are typically designated as pocket and roamer.
    -Pocket soldier stays with the medic and protects him from everybody. He is not expected to go rocket jumping onto points or pushing the objective (unless the medic has an uber)
    -The Roamer is exactly that, he has some leeway to rocket jump onto points and push without a medic, but typically, unless he wants to get screwed over, he will stay close to the pocket combo or the team demo
    -Pockets should always use the normal rocket launcher and shotgun as it is the best to counter to scouts
    -Roamers can use the DH if they're good but it's not expected.
    -You should know how to rocket jump everywhere. This takes practice.
    -Airshots are balla and will look nice in your frag videos

    Demo
    -You got to know the sticky jumps. For pretty much all the maps listed above, you must be able to sticky jump decently enough to get to the middle point at the same time the scouts would, or just behind them. This is particularly critical on badlands and granary, where a good few stickes set up at where the enemy team are coming out could decide who gets mid.
    -You're a bigger damage dealer than the soldiers, and can fire more indirect. But you're all alone, so you dieing is kind of a big deal. Hang back and spam pipes into the middle point, and sticky up essential chokepoints.
    -This pretty much applies for both attack and defense.
    -Stickying up chokepoints is particularly essential when you're getting pushed back. A sticky trap on the gates on cp_well can pratically turn the game to your favor.
    -Personally not a big demo, so can't say much either way, but you have to be fairly competent in sticky usage and knowing when and where to fight, but also how to use your regular pipes to smack down scouts and soldiers

    Medic
    -You're the key to a lot of what goes on. Your uber and kritz are essential, and your death means your team is unsupported and will probably get pushed in on.
    -That said, hang back. Stick with your pocket soldier at all times, don't try to advance ahead of him
    -Scream ungodly sounds into the mic when being attacked
    -Don't pull out your needlegun or saw unless you are completely and utterly alone and there is nowhere to run to. You will have people defending you, your job is to keep them up and to build the uber/kritz
    -Jump a lot
    -You can pop your uber if you're in trouble, no one will blame you, just stay alive.


    That just about covers the basics of it.

    GotFrag has a great page that goes a little more indepth not just into general strategy, but particular strategies for specific maps and such

    Click here for GotFrag's Tips & Tricks section

    Of particular interest should be Jaeger's general tips and tricks videos. There's only 5 so far, but they look at some specifics that are definitely worth knowing if you're looking to persue this type of gameplay a bit further

    Tips & Tricks Volume 1 - Scout Energy Drink
    - A few points about the Bonk, although the recent Valve fix made the first-person tip impossible :(
    Tips & Tricks Volume 2 - Soldier Jumps on cp_gravepit, point C
    - Examples of how to quickly get up the C tower on cp_gravelpit out the left and ride side of spawn.
    Tips & Tricks Volume 3 - Spamming Through Doors on cp_frieght
    - This is technically a glitch, and is not allowed by ESEA.
    Tips & Tricks Volume 4 - Pre-firing Rockets
    - Some safety tips for soldiers about spamming around corners.
    Tips & Tricks Volume 5 - Medic Healing
    - A little love for our healers as guest star creepin outlines the basic healing order, and why.


    Now it's time for....


    !!!PRO VIDEOS!!!



    Feel free to PM me or post with any questions or clarifications.

    really good guide, just quick, and I think I know the answer to this, being able to talk in mumble and not only listen is key, correct?

    so I would probably want to fix and/or buy a new mic before I did any of this? or would just listening in on the voip be good enough?

    you need a mic. even if you're not going to be discussing in-game strategy and are content to just take orders, you need to be able to yell SCOUT BEHIND or SPY SPY SPY SPY when you're the only one who sees it

  • GoombaGoomba __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2010
    Watching comp play is pretty entertaining.

    Or maybe it's just MoB. But seeing a medic get bottled in that high level play is pretty entertaining.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Which is why I stopped playing it. It's also dumb that it's 6v6 and after a while it just becomes un-fun.

    All the classes are useful in the goddamn game and the very idea that four of them are better than the rest should have died stillbirth.

    my twitter | beats music
    I made a bad game! Download it scrubs.
    Keep it Up!: iOS Android
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    T4CT wrote: »
    In comp play where eveyone knows what they're doing and is either a scout, medic or can powerjump? Heavy is too slow. That's why, like the guide says, you only see them as a last ditch effort for final point defense.

    It's worth noting that in clutch situations it's one of the scouts that is expected to switch classes.

    Weird. I wonder how things change in larger competitive play.

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I think that I'd like to see a 12v12 league (yes, i know logistics for that many people suck). or at least balanced around that. seems less like a flat game....

  • redheadredhead Registered User
    edited January 2010
    Joe K wrote: »
    besides empty servers, its bothered me that only 4 classes are considered useful in the "competitive" mode.

    every class is useful in competitive play and every class gets used. my most recent match, on gravelpit, included a heavy defending C almost every round, engis on defense every single round, a sniper that literally beat us singlehandedly, a spy that ruined one of our pushes with a key soldier pick, and an epic pyro defense on top of C

    it's just that those four classes are the most useful and the most often used. but even though demo/soldier/medic/scout are the most common, it's rare that a scrim or match doesn't include at least one of the other classes

  • T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Here's how it goes down

    Medic can't switch because Medic is literally your team's crutch. If your medic dies and the other team's doesn't? You will get pushed back. That's why the pocket soldier and the medic spend most of their time trying to take out the other team's pair while each team's scouts run flank maneuvers.

    The roamer is needed to stop the scouts from killing the medic or you lose your point. He can't switch off.

    Demo...it's hard to explain without playing, but he's crucial to point defense and offense and it gets quite hard to combat the other team's demo without one of your own.

    Scouts, you always want one because their speed allows them to go in for quick pinches at the medic when the roaming soldier isn't looking. This is especially easy with two scouts since you can perform switches easily while the other goes to grab a pack, but it's easily do-able with one if he's good at the class. That leaves the other scout open to switch classes, if need be, based on the current scenario.

    I would love to see larger comp-play create a bigger scene because honestly I think it'd be a lot more dynamic.

    e: On the subject of other classes in comp matches, you definitely see them played, either in pinch scenarios for defense or for full-on pushes from the offense. It's not uncommon for a spy to show up on the offense side to kill the defense's final point. In fact, a clan by the name of TuN who we used to scrim with rather frequently as practice had a scout that they ran as a scout, but the reason he was on the team was to switch to spy for quick-capping the final two points on any badlands scrim.

    my twitter | beats music
    I made a bad game! Download it scrubs.
    Keep it Up!: iOS Android
Sign In or Register to comment.