Medic can't switch because Medic is literally your team's crutch. If your medic dies and the other team's doesn't? You will get pushed back. That's why the pocket soldier and the medic spend most of their time trying to take out the other team's pair while each team's scouts run flank maneuvers.
The roamer is needed to stop the scouts from killing the medic or you lose your point. He can't switch off.
Demo...it's hard to explain without playing, but he's crucial to point defense and offense and it gets quite hard to combat the other team's demo without one of your own.
Scouts, you always want one because their speed allows them to go in for quick pinches at the medic when the roaming soldier isn't looking. This is especially easy with two scouts since you can perform switches easily while the other goes to grab a pack, but it's easily do-able with one if he's good at the class. That leaves the other scout open to switch classes, if need be, based on the current scenario.
I would love to see larger comp-play create a bigger scene because honestly I think it'd be a lot more dynamic.
This is pretty much all true, and the reason you don't see much deviation from this is because it is the most optimal for what competitive play is about. These also happen to be the classes with some of the highest skill ceilings and different techniques one can do.
Medic can't switch because Medic is literally your team's crutch. If your medic dies and the other team's doesn't? You will get pushed back. That's why the pocket soldier and the medic spend most of their time trying to take out the other team's pair while each team's scouts run flank maneuvers.
The roamer is needed to stop the scouts from killing the medic or you lose your point. He can't switch off.
Demo...it's hard to explain without playing, but he's crucial to point defense and offense and it gets quite hard to combat the other team's demo without one of your own.
Scouts, you always want one because their speed allows them to go in for quick pinches at the medic when the roaming soldier isn't looking. This is especially easy with two scouts since you can perform switches easily while the other goes to grab a pack, but it's easily do-able with one if he's good at the class. That leaves the other scout open to switch classes, if need be, based on the current scenario.
I would love to see larger comp-play create a bigger scene because honestly I think it'd be a lot more dynamic.
e: On the subject of other classes in comp matches, you definitely see them played, either in pinch scenarios for defense or for full-on pushes from the offense. It's not uncommon for a spy to show up on the offense side to kill the defense's final point. In fact, a clan by the name of TuN who we used to scrim with rather frequently as practice had a scout that they ran as a scout, but the reason he was on the team was to switch to spy for quick-capping the final two points on any badlands scrim.
you're right about medic, pocket solly and demo never switching, but everything else switches at least sometimes
I'm my team's roaming soldier. I go sniper with some regularity (on some maps--freight, yukon, and especially follower--it can be better to have two scouts and one soldier than two soldiers and one scout). I go pyro for badlands mid sometimes, and heavy for viaduct if that's the strat we're running.
our scouts switch to stuff constantly. usually sniper, but other stuff too. and it's not always true that you absolutely have to keep one scout. a lone scout can be so much less effective than two that it's sometimes not even worth keeping him on scout. so if one scout goes sniper, the other one might go spy and go for a lucky pick.
"How to use bonk halfway effectively: Exploit the fuck out of bugs having to do with the drink!"
Thanks pro video!
well... yeah. that is how to use it effectively. it sounds like you're mad about that, but that doesn't really make any sense.
if you don't want to use it effectively, don't do the stuff in that video. if you want to use it effectively but are mad that doing so involves bugs, blame valve, not jaeger. it doesn't really matter anyway because bonk isn't worth much to begin with most of the time.
"How to use bonk halfway effectively: Exploit the fuck out of bugs having to do with the drink!"
Thanks pro video!
well... yeah. that is how to use it effectively. it sounds like you're mad about that, but that doesn't really make any sense.
if you don't want to use it effectively, don't do the stuff in that video. if you want to use it effectively but are mad that doing so involves bugs, blame valve, not jaeger. it doesn't really matter anyway because bonk isn't worth much to begin with most of the time.
Exploiting bugs to play is not pro, no more than the person using an aimbot is pro.
"How to use bonk halfway effectively: Exploit the fuck out of bugs having to do with the drink!"
Thanks pro video!
well... yeah. that is how to use it effectively. it sounds like you're mad about that, but that doesn't really make any sense.
if you don't want to use it effectively, don't do the stuff in that video. if you want to use it effectively but are mad that doing so involves bugs, blame valve, not jaeger. it doesn't really matter anyway because bonk isn't worth much to begin with most of the time.
Exploiting bugs to play is not pro, no more than the person using an aimbot is pro.
Every game with a competitive field has exploited its bugs? Not that the one you cited is particularly large or gives much advantage.
See: Rocket jumping in QuakeTF, worker-drilling in SC, crouch tabbing in CS, etc.
"How to use bonk halfway effectively: Exploit the fuck out of bugs having to do with the drink!"
Thanks pro video!
well... yeah. that is how to use it effectively. it sounds like you're mad about that, but that doesn't really make any sense.
if you don't want to use it effectively, don't do the stuff in that video. if you want to use it effectively but are mad that doing so involves bugs, blame valve, not jaeger. it doesn't really matter anyway because bonk isn't worth much to begin with most of the time.
Exploiting bugs to play is not pro, no more than the person using an aimbot is pro.
Medic can't switch because Medic is literally your team's crutch. If your medic dies and the other team's doesn't? You will get pushed back. That's why the pocket soldier and the medic spend most of their time trying to take out the other team's pair while each team's scouts run flank maneuvers.
The roamer is needed to stop the scouts from killing the medic or you lose your point. He can't switch off.
Demo...it's hard to explain without playing, but he's crucial to point defense and offense and it gets quite hard to combat the other team's demo without one of your own.
Scouts, you always want one because their speed allows them to go in for quick pinches at the medic when the roaming soldier isn't looking. This is especially easy with two scouts since you can perform switches easily while the other goes to grab a pack, but it's easily do-able with one if he's good at the class. That leaves the other scout open to switch classes, if need be, based on the current scenario.
I would love to see larger comp-play create a bigger scene because honestly I think it'd be a lot more dynamic.
e: On the subject of other classes in comp matches, you definitely see them played, either in pinch scenarios for defense or for full-on pushes from the offense. It's not uncommon for a spy to show up on the offense side to kill the defense's final point. In fact, a clan by the name of TuN who we used to scrim with rather frequently as practice had a scout that they ran as a scout, but the reason he was on the team was to switch to spy for quick-capping the final two points on any badlands scrim.
you're right about medic, pocket solly and demo never switching, but everything else switches at least sometimes
I'm my team's roaming soldier. I go sniper with some regularity (on some maps--freight, yukon, and especially follower--it can be better to have two scouts and one soldier than two soldiers and one scout). I go pyro for badlands mid sometimes, and heavy for viaduct if that's the strat we're running.
our scouts switch to stuff constantly. usually sniper, but other stuff too. and it's not always true that you absolutely have to keep one scout. a lone scout can be so much less effective than two that it's sometimes not even worth keeping him on scout. so if one scout goes sniper, the other one might go spy and go for a lucky pick.
I never ever found a situation while playing Roamer where, in any way, me switching would have less of a negative impact on our game's performance than if a scout switched. If your on the offensive push or coming out of a new gate and your team's medic has his kritz ready to fly and suddenly the pocket dies to a crit sticky, your medic not only no longer has the pocket soldier, he no longer has any soldier and the Demo simply cannot protect him the way the soldier can. Likewise, the demoman is not the kritz target you need when you're pushing offensively, but a good Roamer can easily fill the pocket role until the pocket respawns and gets back to the medic, enabling the push to continue (albeit on crutches). If your scout cannot function on his own while the other is temporarily switching to another class, than the scout needs to get better at the class. It is not hard to harass a medic as a lone scout, and that should be your primary job while you're watching your own team's flanks.
well, we don't usually run kritz when we drop a soldier, yeah
but it's honestly not that uncommon a strategy and I'm surprised you've never seen it
the benefit is basically that having two scouts on really scout-friendly maps can lead to so much scout rape that it makes up for the decreased firepower/medic safety
I assumed they fix the bonk! strafing thing when they fixed allowing people to go into first person. I don't know why they just don't get rid of the slowdown since losing the pistol is already a pretty major thing.
"How to use bonk halfway effectively: Exploit the fuck out of bugs having to do with the drink!"
Thanks pro video!
well... yeah. that is how to use it effectively. it sounds like you're mad about that, but that doesn't really make any sense.
if you don't want to use it effectively, don't do the stuff in that video. if you want to use it effectively but are mad that doing so involves bugs, blame valve, not jaeger. it doesn't really matter anyway because bonk isn't worth much to begin with most of the time.
Exploiting bugs to play is not pro, no more than the person using an aimbot is pro.
Every game with a competitive field has exploited its bugs? Not that the one you cited is particularly large or gives much advantage.
See: Rocket jumping in QuakeTF, worker-drilling in SC, crouch tabbing in CS, etc.
I'm not saying it does. But when you are trying to give tips to help people play better, you shouldn't be saying, "Exploit this!"
The part where he was giving tips to use bonk is fine. The part where he was telling people how to fire the scattergun faster by going into first person w/bonk, and strafe to negate the speed loss on the cooldown is not.
So your medic runs into the spawn to swap from kritz to uber when you decide you're moving your soldier out? Or do you wait until your medic dies for him to swap and then make that decision which means your team got pushed back a point?
It's not that I haven't seen it it's just I rarely ever saw it in any div we played. Two soldiers with splash damaging weapons is far more useful, on offense or defense, than two hitscan scouts who happen to move fast and if the roaming soldier is any good won't be making it to the medic 90% of the time anyway.
I mean maybe your team functions with it but I don't see why you'd do it. Unless your scouts can't operate more than one class in the competitive environment.
Highlander was fun. Wasn't SotQ getting back together?
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
edited January 2010
menaced a pub as a natascha heavy. wasteland of broken Scotsmen and their teeny tiny cowering plates. by the end of the map I had 3 medics attached to me like remoras on a shark belly. Was it here that someone was saying that someone needs to get on making a picture of a heavy standing on top of a pile of demoman corpses, holding a bullet and saying "WHAT DID I TELL YOU!?"
2 on 2 half court is more about skill than full court five on five
No, no. No.
I think 8 vs 8 with one person representing each class would probably be the best from a viewer's perspective.
you mean 9v9 and this has been done with highlander scrims and leagues
but from my understanding the 6 extra players adds a exponential increase in the level of logistics that is staggeringly hard to keep up with
edit: logistics in the sense of getting people into matches and stuff
Err yea. Well I just meant as a viewer, you'd get to see the most variety, and seeing how the classes could interact is much more interesting since each addition adds exponentially more possibilities.
I understand the logistical problems of course though. If only a game-finding thingy could be built into the client.
If a pyro airblasts a Demoman mid-charge, they should flip 180 degrees, charge off in the opposite direction, and decapitate the first person they run into, friendly or no.
God, this retardedly low drop rate on items is stupid. At least for weapons. Even though you can get them with achievements, a lot of the achievements are stupidly hard to do.
I'm installing tonight while I sleep, I haven't played since they added samiches, it looks like they have kept the game going well, I think I want to get way into this time
God, this retardedly low drop rate on items is stupid. At least for weapons. Even though you can get them with achievements, a lot of the achievements are stupidly hard to do.
Posts
This is pretty much all true, and the reason you don't see much deviation from this is because it is the most optimal for what competitive play is about. These also happen to be the classes with some of the highest skill ceilings and different techniques one can do.
you're right about medic, pocket solly and demo never switching, but everything else switches at least sometimes
I'm my team's roaming soldier. I go sniper with some regularity (on some maps--freight, yukon, and especially follower--it can be better to have two scouts and one soldier than two soldiers and one scout). I go pyro for badlands mid sometimes, and heavy for viaduct if that's the strat we're running.
our scouts switch to stuff constantly. usually sniper, but other stuff too. and it's not always true that you absolutely have to keep one scout. a lone scout can be so much less effective than two that it's sometimes not even worth keeping him on scout. so if one scout goes sniper, the other one might go spy and go for a lucky pick.
That is all.
Thanks pro video!
well... yeah. that is how to use it effectively. it sounds like you're mad about that, but that doesn't really make any sense.
if you don't want to use it effectively, don't do the stuff in that video. if you want to use it effectively but are mad that doing so involves bugs, blame valve, not jaeger. it doesn't really matter anyway because bonk isn't worth much to begin with most of the time.
Exploiting bugs to play is not pro, no more than the person using an aimbot is pro.
I can't even hit people with the regular rocket launcher.
Therefore, the Direct Hit sucks.
Every game with a competitive field has exploited its bugs? Not that the one you cited is particularly large or gives much advantage.
See: Rocket jumping in QuakeTF, worker-drilling in SC, crouch tabbing in CS, etc.
ok
I never ever found a situation while playing Roamer where, in any way, me switching would have less of a negative impact on our game's performance than if a scout switched. If your on the offensive push or coming out of a new gate and your team's medic has his kritz ready to fly and suddenly the pocket dies to a crit sticky, your medic not only no longer has the pocket soldier, he no longer has any soldier and the Demo simply cannot protect him the way the soldier can. Likewise, the demoman is not the kritz target you need when you're pushing offensively, but a good Roamer can easily fill the pocket role until the pocket respawns and gets back to the medic, enabling the push to continue (albeit on crutches). If your scout cannot function on his own while the other is temporarily switching to another class, than the scout needs to get better at the class. It is not hard to harass a medic as a lone scout, and that should be your primary job while you're watching your own team's flanks.
but it's honestly not that uncommon a strategy and I'm surprised you've never seen it
the benefit is basically that having two scouts on really scout-friendly maps can lead to so much scout rape that it makes up for the decreased firepower/medic safety
or maybe we're just bad, i dunno
Then again I'm not a proooofessional.
I'm not saying it does. But when you are trying to give tips to help people play better, you shouldn't be saying, "Exploit this!"
The part where he was giving tips to use bonk is fine. The part where he was telling people how to fire the scattergun faster by going into first person w/bonk, and strafe to negate the speed loss on the cooldown is not.
Demon;
http://www.mikemarcin.com/gaming/team-fortress-2/tips-and-tricks-vol1
It's not that I haven't seen it it's just I rarely ever saw it in any div we played. Two soldiers with splash damaging weapons is far more useful, on offense or defense, than two hitscan scouts who happen to move fast and if the roaming soldier is any good won't be making it to the medic 90% of the time anyway.
I mean maybe your team functions with it but I don't see why you'd do it. Unless your scouts can't operate more than one class in the competitive environment.
No, no. No.
I think 8 vs 8 with one person representing each class would probably be the best from a viewer's perspective.
you mean 9v9 and this has been done with highlander scrims and leagues
but from my understanding the 6 extra players adds a exponential increase in the level of logistics that is staggeringly hard to keep up with
edit: logistics in the sense of getting people into matches and stuff
"...only mights and maybes."
Err yea. Well I just meant as a viewer, you'd get to see the most variety, and seeing how the classes could interact is much more interesting since each addition adds exponentially more possibilities.
I understand the logistical problems of course though. If only a game-finding thingy could be built into the client.
pyro isn't a real class
Alternatively: Sniper, Spy, Engineer, Medic, Heavy, Demoman, Soldier.
If a pyro airblasts a Demoman mid-charge, they should flip 180 degrees, charge off in the opposite direction, and decapitate the first person they run into, friendly or no.
Also, you know how Eric Zahn said I could occasionally play scout?
Killing the entire enemy team in one clip and capping the point errday.
ALSO how did that guy gallop on SO MANY BROKEN DREAMS
They are?