Just getting started...

jimboisticjimboistic Registered User
edited April 2007 in Artist's Corner
So a few months ago I started drawing, mainly because I love webcomics, and my roommate and I think we can be amusing at times...anyways, here's what resulted. Not original in concept or art style....but it's a start. Did a few since then, but I still think this is my best so far.

Let me have it!



011607.jpg

jimboistic on

Posts

  • EdmanEdman Registered User
    edited March 2007
    First: Kill the grey lines. They are the same value as the color fills you're using, so it looks bad. I'd recommend black, or if you absolutely have to use colored lines, a much darker set of colors.

    Also, backgrounds are gooooooooooood.

    Edman on
  • jimboisticjimboistic Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Yeah, that's a skill issue, really...I'm still trying to figure out how to go from ink to scan without getting shitty, greyed out lines. I've been reading the how-to forums here and am trying out CS2's line trace function with my next one, as well as some other things I've read here.

    As for the backgrounds, yes I know. One step at a time.

    jimboistic on
  • AumniAumni Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    still life/anatomy + anatomy + form + anatomy + understanding of light + form + anatomy = Improved Drawing.


    (Humor * banana peel)/(Monkey)^2 = Marginally improved humor.

    Continue working on drawing the webcomics, but mainly focus on reality -- Real life, still life, anatomy, and form. You'll notice that if you study those your cartoon style will improve drastically n'stuff. Continue researching about inking, use a better font and learn how to better make speech bubbles, then go draw a naked human. Then work on the humor (it is kinda flat right now) and then go draw another naked human.

    Aumni on
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/aumni/ Battlenet: Aumni#1978 GW2: Aumni.1425 PSN: Aumnius
  • RusticCreatureRusticCreature Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    This is about as funny as anything PA comes up with these days. I mean, no offense Jimbo.

    RusticCreature on
  • MunacraMunacra Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Or perhaps just work on the comedy? I find that if the comic is hilarious, it can stand on its own, regardless of wheter you're drawing stick figures (Cyanide and happiness), or stuffed animals (Achewood).

    As it is right now, the comic is too long. You're working with only verbal humor, which is terribly hard to pull off, and since it is based in an insider joke, you can't expect anyone else to get it.

    Don't use too much text. This is a visual medium. Your words don't mean as much as what your characters are doing. and right now you have two guys standing around with their arms crossed. Really not funny.

    Munacra on
  • RusticCreatureRusticCreature Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I don't get why you people and hatin' on the humor so much. The humor isn't bad; in fact it's pretty good. If it had some pretty good art to go with it, you wouldn't be complaining.

    And Munacra, how is the comic too long? It's three panels in length. That's shorter than the average web comic. I also don't see how you could call this an inside joke, unless you mean people who haven't seen Indiana Jones wouldn't get it. And pretty much everyone has seen Indiana Jones.

    Cause it's freakin' Indiana Jones.

    RusticCreature on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    The internet doesn't need another comic starring two friends, one a zany, off-the-wall retard and one a straightlaced, bitingly sarcastic hipster. As for the art, you're honestly in such an early stage of development that the only advice I can give you is to continue drawing every day.

    Munch on
  • MunacraMunacra Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I should probably stay in the Writer's Block, but I'll post my thoughts on this anyway.
    And Munacra, how is the comic too long? It's three panels in length. That's shorter than the average web comic. I also don't see how you could call this an inside joke, unless you mean people who haven't seen Indiana Jones wouldn't get it. And pretty much everyone has seen Indiana Jones.
    Image: Two guys talking
    Goatee:We should buy a monkey
    Sunglasses:A monkey? Why should we buy a monkey?

    Image: Dead monkey
    Goatee:What situation in life would not be improved with the inclusion of a monkey? I mean...look at Indiana Jones, that monkey saved his life!

    Image: Two guys talking
    Sunglasses:So you're saying in the event that someone poisoned the platter of dates that we have sitting in our kitchen, the monkey could test it for us and die?
    Goatee:Yeah, essentially.
    Sunglasses:We don't have a platter of dates
    Goatee: But we'd have a monkey.

    That's not long to you? That's seven lines of dialogue, some of it worthless exposition. And it all adds up to a pretty bland punchline about an imaginary plate of dates and an imaginary monkey. The structure is all wrong also. Comedy is all about structure.

    The joke could be edited down to say, something like this:
    Image: Guys at zoo looking at the monkeys
    Goatee: That monkey could be pretty badass. A potential lifesaver, like that one monkey that saved Indie!

    Image: Closeup of Sunglasses' face. He is terrified.
    Sunglasses: Didn't the monkey die? D :

    Image: picture of dead monkey
    Goatee: Well, yeah...oh...yeah. Oh shit, I feel terrible.

    That is an example of a much shorter joke People just don't speak using so many words, like in the original comic. I also changed the structure of the joke to put the potentially stronger punchline (the dead monkey) at the end, so it can have more impact. To keep things visually interesting, the background of the zoo was added, and a closeup of Sunglasses for emotion.

    The comic is an inside joke, not becuase of Indiana Jones, but because that's what it reads like. It focuses on what the character's are saying, not what they're doing. If you ever hear yourself saying something like "you just had to be there" then it's an inside joke. If you focus instead on the emotions of the characters, comedy can arise.

    Although my version is still pretty bad, because it is essentially two floating heads talking. This style of comedy works pretty well when you're with your buddies, because you have been around them long enough to know who they are, and why they say the things they do. It does not work with these kind of comics, or movies or books, or whatever entails two guys talking, because essentially, every time you read a different strip, it's the first time you meet the characters.

    Get to the punchline quick and make it more visual. Keep it short, snappy, and funny.

    Munacra on
  • MEADONEMEADONE Registered User
    edited April 2007
    This comic is really about image vs. reality. Clearly the goatee guy has so far suspended his disbelief of the movie Indiana Jones that he beielves anything that happens in that movie is a perfect reflection of reality. The sunglasses guy is not so sure of that. It would be funnier to make the two sides more extreme.

    Taking a cue Munarca, but I'd rather use more panels, and make it a bit more complex. Probably be better as an entire page of a comic.

    Image: Two guys at the monkey cage area of the zoo. Sunglasses guy is sitting in a bench. Goatee guy is begining to climb the fence.

    Goatee guy: You stay here and look out.
    Sunglasses guy: Huh?
    Goatee guy: I'm gunna capture that monkey so we can take him home.

    Image: Goatee guy is at the top of the fence looking down. Sunglasses guy looks up at him from below

    Sunglasses guy: Why would you want to kidnap a dirty stinkin' ape?
    Goatee guy: It's a monkey, and they save lives like when that one monkey saved Indiana Jones' life by eating the posion dates before Indy could.

    Image: At the top of the fence Goatee guy reaches out to a moneky on a branch, dangerous close to grabbing it.

    Sunglasses guy (off screen): But that was a movie
    Goatee guy: What?

    Image: *Crack* A whip doubles itself around goatee guy's throat and yanks him backward

    Thunderous voice: Stop!
    Goatee Guy: *Choking sounds*

    Image: A shilouetted figure with a hat on stands above Goatee guy, who is lying on the ground.

    Goatee guy: Indiana Jones is that you?
    Sunglasses guy (off screen): Holy Crap! It's Harrison Ford.

    Image: Goatee guy has gotten up from the ground. Sunglasses guy stands next to "Indiana Jones."

    Goatee guy: Why did you stop me Indy?
    Harrison Ford: Because... Monkey's are damn dirty creatures. The one in that movie, it was really a midget in a costume.
    Goatee Guy: So it was all fake?
    Harrison Ford: Well, the posion dates were real.


    The whole thing kinda relies on you having seen that scene from Indiana Jones recently. Not exactly broad humor, but could work well in that context.

    MEADONE on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Wow, that was a really boring joke, Meadone.

    MagicToaster on
  • MEADONEMEADONE Registered User
    edited April 2007
    It's not much of a joke (set-up punchline), more a scene really. I really don't think this concept works very well as a three panel comic. It involves too much explaination about a very specifc scene from the movie Indiana Jones. And if you gloss over it (like Munacra did), no one outside of this thread would know what the hell you were talking about. And personally, a dead midget in a monkey costume is a hell of a lot funnier than just a dead monkey. Furthermore, you're an idiot, Magic Toaster, and your response was in no way helpful to the inital poster whatsoever. PM me if you just wanna uselessly bash my good intentioned posts.

    MEADONE on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    MEADONE, I think you just wrote fanfiction for a three panel joke strip. And look, the problem isn't that the joke wasn't told with enough variance in camera angles, or a guest appearance by Harrison Ford, or a midget in a monkey costume (what the Christ, seriously). It's just a shitty, bland joke. There's nothing at all funny about two guys wanting a monkey because one guy watched Indiana Jones, and there happened to be a dead monkey in it.

    It doesn't help that, as I previously stated, the artist has chosen to use two ridiculously overused character archetypes, in a generic "talking heads" comic strip. That kind of stuff may have went over well back in the day, but nowadays the webcomic market's pretty much completely saturated with wacky guy/serious guy joke-a-day comics.

    Munch on
  • MEADONEMEADONE Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Oh, I agree with you. I was just trying to come at it in my own way. It's hard to make that idea funny. And The midget thing in a way is a reference to r2d2 and generally "movie magic." There's another reference to a classic movie with the "Damn dirty ape" line, and also an obvious reference to Indiana Jones. I was trying to make something of the Hollywood adventure movie theme in the initial work. Yeah, I read into it way more than the guy intended, but my whole point was to extract something out of this effort and see what the thoughts behind it really were. I'm a Film Studies student, I do this everyday and sometimes its fun to apply it to stupid things like this.

    MEADONE on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    MEADONE wrote: »
    It's hard to make that idea funny.

    See, what bothers me is that you know that your joke is boring... yet, you still call me an idiot for pointing it out. I'm actually offended because I was not disrespectful to you, I think your remark is out of place.

    MagicToaster on
  • MEADONEMEADONE Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I never said my joke was boring. I only said it was hard to make that initial idea funny. Did I mention whether or not I was successful? No. I personally think it's pretty funny.
    Anyways, I called you an idiot because it looked like you put no thought into your criticism of my post. Maybe if you outlined why you thought it was boring your response would be somehow useful, but you didn't and it wasn't. Anyways, the point of this thread is to crit or offer advice to the OP, something I did and you didn't. But I do apologize, you are not an idiot (as far as I know). I just took offense to your thoughtless response to my thoughtful one.

    MEADONE on
  • MunacraMunacra Registered User
    edited April 2007
    See, but your post was not very helpful at all. You basically saw it, read what I had to say, and then went and did your own thing. If your advice is for the OP to expand on an already tired joke, then that's simply bad advice. You're not done when you have nothing less to add, but rather when you have nothing else to take out.

    Munacra on
  • MEADONEMEADONE Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I generally agree on removing uneeded elements. However, you removed so much info in your version as to make the comic completely arcane. And I did give advice to the OP. I tried to get him to think deeply about his comic. And yes, I saw what you did, which was give advice, and modeled my post on yours, which when read next to yours is also advice.

    MEADONE on
  • Grim OutlookGrim Outlook Registered User
    edited April 2007
    why is it called "i weep for the future"?

    you should have called it like "my date with a monkey" or something

    hehe get it? dates..?

    Grim Outlook on
  • earthwormadamearthwormadam ancient crust Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I'm glad you think it is funny, but you really don't want to go there with MT.

    Really the only funny I got out of it was the giant copyright. Hilarious!

    earthwormadam on
  • ProspicienceProspicience The Raven King DenvemoloradoRegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    kinda interesting that this appeared on april fools... or the day before at least.

    Prospicience on
  • ProspicienceProspicience The Raven King DenvemoloradoRegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    whoa editing gone bad

    Double edit: And am I having deja vu or did this exact thing happen last year?

    Prospicience on
  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    For what it's worth, I thought the joke was pretty funny.

    Lemming on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I think everything I would have said has already been said in the posts preceeding Meadone's.

    I don't find it funny, personally, and agree the art needs to really be worked on.

    One of my first thoughts about the comic was, "Oh christ, not another monkeys-are-funny-oh-god-lets-put-a-monkey-in-the-comic-because-everybody-finds-the-mentioning-of-monkeys-hysterical theme." Other "popular" hilarity-icons include pirates, ninjas, and on an occaission, cows. Above all, though, the monkey seems to consistently be used by younger, beginner comic-artists because it's a popular "funny creature". I really don't know if anybody else has noticed this or not, but it's true. Of all the jokes I've ever read from just-starting-out comics...monkeys, for some reason, seem to be used over and over and over again for humor purposes. Not "haha the monkey is doing something", but "haha, it's a monkey, and monkeys and the mentioning of monkeys is, by definition, funny". This is really just a pet peeve of mine, don't take it as a direct attack to you! I mean, yes, you can incorporate a "monkey theme" thing into a comic, but I think it has to be done in a unique enough way where I'm not left thinking "not another 'it's funny because there's a monkey in it' comic strip".

    *breath*!

    Aside from brushing up on the art, you really want to try to keep your characters consistent. If you haven't done a few strips already and gotten the reader accustomed to how your characters look, starting off the first panel of the first comic with a "crazy/warped look" on one of your characters is going to come off as being rather confusing. That being said, the green-shirt guy looks much better art-wise in the last panel than he does in the first, and I would suggest trying to keep your character expressions a bit more "within reason" until you've drawn them over and over enough to really nail the art. His eyes, as an example...pretty odd-looking in the first panel...the shape of his head, hair, nose and mouth are also radically different from how he looks in the last panel.

    Grim's mentioned the title of the comic, which I agree doesn't really make sense or fit.

    That's all I can really think of right now. Bottom line for me: don't mention ninjas or pirates or monkeys or any other "popular" funny-thing, unless you can do a really unique take on the subject. Don't use ninjas or pirates because you think their existance in the comic is funny - "I've decided I want to be a _____!" "I think that guy's a ______!" "Is your mom a _____?!" "that ______ just stole/cut off my _____!" - because it's a tiring and over-used method for beginners in comics and I think you really would be best to stay away from them. Seriously, now I know I can't be the only one thinking that. :P They ARE overused. Trust me!

    NightDragon on
  • MEADONEMEADONE Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I'm glad you think it is funny, but you really don't want to go there with MT.

    Really the only funny I got out of it was the giant copyright. Hilarious!

    I respect you regulars, and enjoy your posts when I lurk here often. I just feel like you really have to defend yourself if your avatar (or lack thereof) isn't seen very frequently. You can't say you guys arn't pretty hard on newbies, and everyone in general. Ha! Sorry to have wasted the thread space with this back and forth.

    MEADONE on
  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I think ND nailed it there with that post. Nailed it good.

    Tweaked_Bat_ on
  • jimboisticjimboistic Registered User
    edited April 2007
    lol. Wow....that.....was really an interesting disgression you kids got into there....

    Thanks for the pointers, ND... the rest of the comments seemed mostly embroiled in personal back and forthisms or amounted to variations on "it's not funny", "it's funny", or "learn to draw".

    You kids are pretty cut-throat, I gotta say. Ease up, children, before you pop a vein.

    jimboistic on
  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Calling them children probably isn't going to help much... just so you know ;)

    Tweaked_Bat_ on
  • core tacticcore tactic Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Why does this remind me so of CtrlAltDel?

    It just does. Must be the dialogue or something.

    core tactic on
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  • CatnipCatCatnipCat Registered User
    edited April 2007
    jimboistic wrote: »
    You kids are pretty cut-throat, I gotta say. Ease up, children, before you pop a vein.

    Well, you did say to "Let me have it!" It's not like you didn't ask for it. And these are the kind of people that see your comic on the interwebs.

    What is your purpose for making a webcomic? Are you just doing it for fun, do you want to be well-known in the webcomic community (i guess like PA, CAD, PVP, etc), or just Option C: Other __________ ? If you're doing these just for the fun it, then everything's good as long as you enjoy doing them. If you want to get good at webcomics, I think you're gonna have to improve your art and/or humor. Neither one are very original, and personally I don't feel like going to a webpage to read something like this everyday.

    That's it for me. I'm late for the bus to elementary school.

    CatnipCat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    jimboistic wrote: »
    lol. Wow....that.....was really an interesting disgression you kids got into there....

    Thanks for the pointers, ND... the rest of the comments seemed mostly embroiled in personal back and forthisms or amounted to variations on "it's not funny", "it's funny", or "learn to draw".

    You kids are pretty cut-throat, I gotta say. Ease up, children, before you pop a vein.

    You're welcome.

    Also, concerning the cut-throat part......I actually *just* mentioned something about that in the chat thread (if you're really curious and feel like reading long posts, start at the bottom of page 26).

    Basically, I feel like a lot of people come in here (especially with webcomics) and make a new thread, expecting some mildly-emotive, mostly positive feedback..."oh, that's nice." ....."I like your characters."........"maybe try to work on your arms just a bit? :P" .........but they end up being shocked at the types of replies they're getting.....harsh and direct, without any glitter or fluff. Really, though, that's just how we work. Other forums may be sweet and nice and give you some mild, easy-going single-sentence critiques. The AC, on the other hand, tends to be a bit harsher (I personally think this is better anyway - nobody got better by having people give them compliments. People get better by getting critiques, the more direct the better). It's just something you have to get used to, and be ready for when you make a new thread. It's not our fault if you didn't lurk :P.

    CatnipCat also made some good points regarding your "goal" for this comic....are you going to try to "go big" with this in the future? Do you want to have a large readership base? If so, you should take every critique you get, harsh and mean or kind and fluffy. Either way, they'll help you to understand what you're doing wrong and what you can do to fix your problems. Although "it's not funny" isn't the greatest critique you can get, it's still a critique, and a valuable one to take into account. Asking somebody to elaborate or ask for tips isn't out of line, either. Also, I'm sure there are some good sites or books out there that you can use as "humor coaches".

    If, on the other hand, you're making these just for fun to show to your friends, and you don't really care if you only get five hits on your site a month.....well, then, I guess improving really isn't as important to you as it is to us (if that makes any sense). This is, though, a forum where we try to help eachother get better. It's a forum that tries to help you improve. I'll warn you now (just in case), but if you are "eh" about improving, there are going to be a lot of frustrated people here. If you're willing, though, and feel okay accepting the harsh critiques many of us give, I think you'll have a much easier, rewarding experience here.

    NightDragon on
  • jimboisticjimboistic Registered User
    edited April 2007
    lol. lesson learned.

    I just do it for fun. And that is a good thing, I think, judging by the tone and disposition of the devout.

    No doubt my "kids" comment struck the proper people in the proper manner, as it was intended to. I was merely saying that criticizing someone's stuff as unoriginal is somewhat silly. Original or not original is simply dependent upon taste and memory. In the vast reaches of the interwebs or in the vaunted real world, it is hard to find, let alone create an original concept. In any medium. People that say, "I am doing something original" aren't well read enough. Take our mutual religion, Penny Arcade. There were gamer comics before it, there were buddy comics before it, and if you take it beyond the genre, the stories and ideas that it relates were propagated originally years if not centuries ago.

    The reason it works is because it appeals to the taste of enough people to launch it's status from anonymous to grand. And because Gabe is an amazing fucking artist. And because Tycho is a brilliant demon spawned from the twin pits of sarcasm and wit.

    I am not Gabe, nor Tycho.

    And while I understand that relaying the opinion that my stuff is boring, not funny, or artistically shit-covered is important for my growth as a webcomic creator, I don't think that was the spirit in which it was rendered here. Not from most at any rate.

    But such is the case in the forum world. Rarely can people accept something they don't like and comment upon it without letting the fact that they do not need to be polite for fear of being punched about the head interfere with the basic interweb instinct to pounce or be pounced upon.

    As I said, lesson learned. I'll redouble my efforts to find the magical combination of wit and artistic ability that has rendered the great webcomics that established the "tired" jokes that I am not to further.

    Again, to those of you that spoke in the spirit of creative help, thanks. To the rest, well, good luck.

    jimboistic on
  • MunacraMunacra Registered User
    edited April 2007
    ahh, I missed the bus. They were having pop-tarts at the cafeteria today. D:

    Munacra on
  • .Tripwire..Tripwire. Firman Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Popularity does not guarantee quality.

    Quality does not guarantee popularity.

    .Tripwire. on
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  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Munacra wrote: »
    ahh, I missed the bus. They were having pop-tarts at the cafeteria today. D:

    You didn't show up so I ate all of yours.

    MagicToaster on
  • MunacraMunacra Registered User
    edited April 2007
    D: D:

    Munacra on
  • CorgiCorgi Registered User
    edited April 2007
    How funny. I would've eaten a whole box of pop tarts this morning if my best friend didn't stop me.
    NONE FOR YOU MUNACRA! MUAHAHAHA!

    go study.

    Corgi on
  • drinkinstoutdrinkinstout Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I uh... had pop tarts at 7-11 this morning :) and a Mtn Dew!

    drinkinstout on
  • alialoalialo Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Ringo Starr?

    alialo on
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