Unfortunately, today I've been convinced that there is a pretty big flaw in the rules in this game. Oh well, too late to go back now.
:?
Yeah... 'competing' factions with a conversion system by which any subset of players containing the right converters could win together. It was definitely interesting, and I like the concept of public mechanics and actions, but it just didn't quite work as conceived.
If by "any subset", you include "all players", then yes, that was the main problem with this game. It was possible on day 1 for every single player to win if you engineered the conversions and what not correctly. Just convert everyone to one primary color and one of it's allied primaries, or to black.
Too much conversion floating around. If I did something like this again I'd have only have conversions for Jokers and just change the starting make up of the factions.
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adventfallsWhy would you wish to know?Registered Userregular
Here are the starting role and color combinations:
Abysmal Lynx, Joker, White
adventfalls, Joker, White
Alegis, Converter, Red
Arasaki, Eliminator (Green Bonus), Black
Bremen, Manipulator, Blue
Burnage, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), White
crimsoncoyote, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), Red
CrownAxe, Protector, White
Daius, Manipulator, Red
Darian, Seer, White
Delphinidaes, Manipulator, White
Dunadan019, Joker, White
Dusda, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), Black
Ebfan, Protector, White
eeccccoo tthhee ddoollpphhiinn, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), White
Egos, Eliminator (Green Bonus), White
enlightenedbum, Redirector, Black
FrostMist, Mimic, White
garroad_ran, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), White
Gumpy, Converter, White
HamHamJ, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), Blue
Hippie, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), White
IAmSquishy, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), Black
immortal squish, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), Red
Infidel, Manipulator, White
Jaenther, Mimic, White
JaysonFour, Protector, White
jdarksun, Joker, White
Kevin R Brown, Redirector, White
Kias, Protector, Black
kime, Redirector, White
LemmingHead, Converter, White
Lightblade, Eliminator (Green Bonus), White
lonelyahava, Seer, Blue
LoserForHireX, Converter, Black
Loxx, Mimic, Blue
Lucedes, Redirector, White
Malkor, Eliminator (Green Bonus), Blue
Maximus, Eliminator (Green Bonus), Yellow
Mr. Defecation, Eliminator (Green Bonus), White
MrBlarney, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), Yellow
Osvik, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), White
Raneados, Joker, White
Rawkking Goodguy, Manipulator, White
Rend, Seer, Red
Robos A Go Go, Converter, Yellow
samurai6966, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), White
ShadowThomas, Converter, Blue
shalmelo, Manipulator, Yellow
TehSloth, Protector, White
Teucrian, Seer, White
The_Reflection, Seer, White
TheLawinator, Redirector, White
Tiphareth, Mimic, Yellow
Toxic Toys, Protector, White
TrueNeverborn, Redirector, White
Typhus733, Mimic, White
warban, Mimic, Red
Zandracon, Joker, White
Zellpher, Seer, Yellow
As for my thoughts about how the game went, other than too much conversion I don't feel too bad with who won. White didn't seem to have much of a strategy, and should have been trying to hunt down the converters either to kill them or get themselves converted out of white. Some White players attempted to do that, but I didn't see any concerted strategy to do it. Also, the "stack the vote all on one guy" strategy was really stupid and White gave up its advantage in numbers to control the different colors of votes to being whittled away by conversions. That allowed the black alligned purple/red/blue network to grow in power and pick you off even when they didn't have real control over the Yellow vote yet.
Yellow got totally stomped, I'm not sure much could have been done for them given how much they got ganged up on and taken out by random shots from eliminators. Their converter was Robos, who got killed on day 2, and both of his targets were quickly converted to black. If White had figured this out they could have offed those two Black players, Hippie and Rend, without too much trouble, and figured out who the other people doing conversions were.
There were also a bunch of times where there were pretty interesting ties that went against White because the people who got their votes and targets in first picked the wrong side. I believe Alegis, the red then purple converter, dodged multiple close calls.
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adventfallsWhy would you wish to know?Registered Userregular
Yep, White didn't have a chance. So it goes. Still, a rather interesting game concept. How unfortunate that I was unable to make it past Day 2. I was kind of expecting to make a longer run after surviving Day 1, but I suppose that was not to be. But on the up side, it's good to know that there are people out there who will grudge for me, haha. I don't have to grudge if others will do so for me!
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Dusdais ashamed of this postSLC, UTRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
How the deuce did I not get killed? I thought people would find my inactivity highly suspicious.
Also, pre-game alliances screwed White over. IAmSquishy was black and in both the spectrum 5 and trueneverborn's group, so there were like 6 White players at the start in cahoots with him.
ahava said something about not trusting Infidel in faction games, but you SHOULD NOT TRUST THE SPECTRUM 5 in faction games. If they have an opportunity to screw the village over, they will take it. It doesn't seem to matter that that it isn't always the same players amongst them, as infidel backstabbed the village when he was one in the latest disgaea game.
As for my thoughts about how the game went, other than too much conversion I don't feel too bad with who won. White didn't seem to have much of a strategy, and should have been trying to hunt down the converters either to kill them or get themselves converted out of white. Some White players attempted to do that, but I didn't see any concerted strategy to do it. Also, the "stack the vote all on one guy" strategy was really stupid and White gave up its advantage in numbers to control the different colors of votes to being whittled away by conversions. That allowed the black alligned purple/red/blue network to grow in power and pick you off even when they didn't have real control over the Yellow vote yet.
As a white seer, I couldn't tell how useful my ability was; with 4 conversions a night + kills, it didn't seem likely that white would manage to pull out a victory. Add in the relative inaccuracy of the seering (it gives non-friendly for all non-white, so it couldn't be used to reliably find the blacks we actually needed to kill) and the fact that I masoned up with a red day one (Daius manipulated me to red so that he seered friendly, then took pity on me and explained what happened), and I was very quickly looking to build toward a red+something victory.
Managed to stumble across another friendly color seer (Zellpher found me, actually), then by figuring out who had converted him we connected with the main purple/black group.
I very much enjoyed the logic-puzzle nature of the mechanics in this; thanks for running it!
As for my thoughts about how the game went, other than too much conversion I don't feel too bad with who won. White didn't seem to have much of a strategy, and should have been trying to hunt down the converters either to kill them or get themselves converted out of white. Some White players attempted to do that, but I didn't see any concerted strategy to do it. Also, the "stack the vote all on one guy" strategy was really stupid and White gave up its advantage in numbers to control the different colors of votes to being whittled away by conversions. That allowed the black alligned purple/red/blue network to grow in power and pick you off even when they didn't have real control over the Yellow vote yet.
As a white seer, I couldn't tell how useful my ability was; with 4 conversions a night + kills, it didn't seem likely that white would manage to pull out a victory. Add in the relative inaccuracy of the seering (it gives non-friendly for all non-white, so it couldn't be used to reliably find the blacks we actually needed to kill) and the fact that I masoned up with a red day one (Daius manipulated me to red so that he seered friendly, then took pity on me and explained what happened), and I was very quickly looking to build toward a red+something victory.
Managed to stumble across another friendly color seer (Zellpher found me, actually), then by figuring out who had converted him we connected with the main purple/black group.
I very much enjoyed the logic-puzzle nature of the mechanics in this; thanks for running it!
Teucurian, one of the other white seers, caught a few black players with his seering, but I didn't seem him leak that info anywhere before black offed him.
Also, you could have tried to use the vote to form multiple bandwagons to try to figure out roughly which colors players were like happened in the early days. If someone had a vote combination that looked likely to be white but seered as non-white you could have sniffed out black that way. And finding white's with the seering let you form networks.
Though, you got manipulated by daius on your seering of him.
We managed to form the Red/Blue/Purple alliance by night 2 with a weird combination of luck. I was the Blue mimic, and discovered that Robos was a converter the first night. The next day Rend, Red Seer, contacted me and we correctly figured Robos was the yellow converter. Rend had contacted several other Reds and Blues already, so we pooled together to get rid of yellow as quickly as possible.
so what did it pretty much go as expected, Savant? Or were the pre-game alliances a surprise?
I expected more killing, less mass conversions.
I was not at all surprised by pre-game alliances, though it ended up with some of those players getting screwed. Which when I realized the combination of players and factions in the alliances was totally expected.
I actually enjoyed this game quite a bit. The conversion mechanic was fun as was trading information for a conversion. Felt nice and shady. Good job running it. I'm glad I got out of yellow while the gettin' was good.
I was making a deal with the blues and looking for the blue converter, and in the process of trying to make a deal of information with Robos when Loxx clued me in that something was amiss. In about ten minutes I had logic'd out that he was the yellow converter, and was like "oh crap."
Luckily for me, He was not very forthcoming in agreeing to my deal, and so I stopped negotiations before they really even started, and we killed him in order to control the conversions pretty much from that day forward.
At that point, it was just a matter of converting everyone we were all in contact with.
Does someone want to explain the spectrum 5 thing to me?
Been out of phalla a while...
The origination of the Spectrum 5 is out of Disgaea. They are essentially a parody of the Power Rangers. So in the Disgaea phalla some people joined up a the Spectrum 5 and acted appropriately over the top. In the latest Disgaea game they abused the mechanics to become a neutral faction that in the end sided with the mafia.
Their converter was Robos, who got killed on day 2, and both of his targets were quickly converted to black. If White had figured this out they could have offed those two Black players, Hippie and Rend, without too much trouble, and figured out who the other people doing conversions were.
Yeah I think burnage even revealed in the thread he was the converter. Loxx found out by Mimicking on day 1. With yellow conversion dead it was easy to relegate to purple and send off all the remaining yellow pigment players to black.
the easiest way for white to win would have been for someone to do a role call on day 1. since you told us how many of each starting role there were, we could have broken the game pretty easily.
I didn't because I woulda felt bad if you waited a week for it to get full and it was effectively over in a day.
Except, since whites could be converted out of white but not vice versa, it was not in a white player's best interest to aim for a certain white victory.
the easiest way for white to win would have been for someone to do a role call on day 1. since you told us how many of each starting role there were, we could have broken the game pretty easily.
I didn't because I woulda felt bad if you waited a week for it to get full and it was effectively over in a day.
I'm a bit doubtful that would have been a foolproof way for white to win, but it could have helped them to try it and try to get some sort of organization up and running. It also likely would have helped keep the Jokers around longer instead of being bandwagoned and black killed so often.
Also, in retrospect, I probably should have had three results of seering: "Friendly", "Neutral", "Enemy" depending upon whether you wanted them to live, die, or didn't care based on your win condition.
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GumpyThere is alwaysa greater powerRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
I would not have responded to a role call, as any colour could have done it day 1. Wouldn't have trusted a black with that information.
Also, I expected the Jokers to use their powers a bit more aggressively, as it provided more specific results than seering did. Given the great lengths that were taken to kill jokers I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
Except, since whites could be converted out of white but not vice versa, it was not in a white player's best interest to aim for a certain white victory.
I would have just claimed I was white, as would the rest of the black players. You would have had to seer everyone to check that (or get lucky with picking seer targets), so it probably wouldn't have worked to ferret out black players.
I guess you could have narrowed it down further if you asked for roles as well, but I probably would have claimed seer then said the actual seer was evil. It's not a foolproof plan.
Posts
If by "any subset", you include "all players", then yes, that was the main problem with this game. It was possible on day 1 for every single player to win if you engineered the conversions and what not correctly. Just convert everyone to one primary color and one of it's allied primaries, or to black.
Too much conversion floating around. If I did something like this again I'd have only have conversions for Jokers and just change the starting make up of the factions.
Fix'd
adventfalls, Joker, White
Alegis, Converter, Red
Arasaki, Eliminator (Green Bonus), Black
Bremen, Manipulator, Blue
Burnage, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), White
crimsoncoyote, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), Red
CrownAxe, Protector, White
Daius, Manipulator, Red
Darian, Seer, White
Delphinidaes, Manipulator, White
Dunadan019, Joker, White
Dusda, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), Black
Ebfan, Protector, White
eeccccoo tthhee ddoollpphhiinn, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), White
Egos, Eliminator (Green Bonus), White
enlightenedbum, Redirector, Black
FrostMist, Mimic, White
garroad_ran, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), White
Gumpy, Converter, White
HamHamJ, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), Blue
Hippie, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), White
IAmSquishy, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), Black
immortal squish, Eliminator (Purple Bonus), Red
Infidel, Manipulator, White
Jaenther, Mimic, White
JaysonFour, Protector, White
jdarksun, Joker, White
Kevin R Brown, Redirector, White
Kias, Protector, Black
kime, Redirector, White
LemmingHead, Converter, White
Lightblade, Eliminator (Green Bonus), White
lonelyahava, Seer, Blue
LoserForHireX, Converter, Black
Loxx, Mimic, Blue
Lucedes, Redirector, White
Malkor, Eliminator (Green Bonus), Blue
Maximus, Eliminator (Green Bonus), Yellow
Mr. Defecation, Eliminator (Green Bonus), White
MrBlarney, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), Yellow
Osvik, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), White
Raneados, Joker, White
Rawkking Goodguy, Manipulator, White
Rend, Seer, Red
Robos A Go Go, Converter, Yellow
samurai6966, Eliminator (Orange Bonus), White
ShadowThomas, Converter, Blue
shalmelo, Manipulator, Yellow
TehSloth, Protector, White
Teucrian, Seer, White
The_Reflection, Seer, White
TheLawinator, Redirector, White
Tiphareth, Mimic, Yellow
Toxic Toys, Protector, White
TrueNeverborn, Redirector, White
Typhus733, Mimic, White
warban, Mimic, Red
Zandracon, Joker, White
Zellpher, Seer, Yellow
Thanks for running!
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Proboards, though Alegis or somesuch will need to open them.
Yellow got totally stomped, I'm not sure much could have been done for them given how much they got ganged up on and taken out by random shots from eliminators. Their converter was Robos, who got killed on day 2, and both of his targets were quickly converted to black. If White had figured this out they could have offed those two Black players, Hippie and Rend, without too much trouble, and figured out who the other people doing conversions were.
There were also a bunch of times where there were pretty interesting ties that went against White because the people who got their votes and targets in first picked the wrong side. I believe Alegis, the red then purple converter, dodged multiple close calls.
You disappoint me, Advent!
Where are the babes in the Dead Ranger thread!?
ahava said something about not trusting Infidel in faction games, but you SHOULD NOT TRUST THE SPECTRUM 5 in faction games. If they have an opportunity to screw the village over, they will take it. It doesn't seem to matter that that it isn't always the same players amongst them, as infidel backstabbed the village when he was one in the latest disgaea game.
As a white seer, I couldn't tell how useful my ability was; with 4 conversions a night + kills, it didn't seem likely that white would manage to pull out a victory. Add in the relative inaccuracy of the seering (it gives non-friendly for all non-white, so it couldn't be used to reliably find the blacks we actually needed to kill) and the fact that I masoned up with a red day one (Daius manipulated me to red so that he seered friendly, then took pity on me and explained what happened), and I was very quickly looking to build toward a red+something victory.
Managed to stumble across another friendly color seer (Zellpher found me, actually), then by figuring out who had converted him we connected with the main purple/black group.
I very much enjoyed the logic-puzzle nature of the mechanics in this; thanks for running it!
Teucurian, one of the other white seers, caught a few black players with his seering, but I didn't seem him leak that info anywhere before black offed him.
Also, you could have tried to use the vote to form multiple bandwagons to try to figure out roughly which colors players were like happened in the early days. If someone had a vote combination that looked likely to be white but seered as non-white you could have sniffed out black that way. And finding white's with the seering let you form networks.
Though, you got manipulated by daius on your seering of him.
I expected more killing, less mass conversions.
I was not at all surprised by pre-game alliances, though it ended up with some of those players getting screwed. Which when I realized the combination of players and factions in the alliances was totally expected.
I was waiting for the babes for a while...
Please don't touch the Spectrum Cannon, that things a bitch. Its still got kime guts all over it
I was expecting more of us to die, we were reasonably inactive and disorganised.
Luckily for me, He was not very forthcoming in agreeing to my deal, and so I stopped negotiations before they really even started, and we killed him in order to control the conversions pretty much from that day forward.
At that point, it was just a matter of converting everyone we were all in contact with.
Someone stole my picture :P
Been out of phalla a while...
The origination of the Spectrum 5 is out of Disgaea. They are essentially a parody of the Power Rangers. So in the Disgaea phalla some people joined up a the Spectrum 5 and acted appropriately over the top. In the latest Disgaea game they abused the mechanics to become a neutral faction that in the end sided with the mafia.
And fair play to Darian for doing all the hard work for Red team that I should have bothered doing.
I COULDA BEEN ONE OF YA
Hey, you lasted a day longer than I thought you would!
http://purplefashion.proboards.com/index.cgi
8-)
the easiest way for white to win would have been for someone to do a role call on day 1. since you told us how many of each starting role there were, we could have broken the game pretty easily.
I didn't because I woulda felt bad if you waited a week for it to get full and it was effectively over in a day.
I'm a bit doubtful that would have been a foolproof way for white to win, but it could have helped them to try it and try to get some sort of organization up and running. It also likely would have helped keep the Jokers around longer instead of being bandwagoned and black killed so often.
Also, in retrospect, I probably should have had three results of seering: "Friendly", "Neutral", "Enemy" depending upon whether you wanted them to live, die, or didn't care based on your win condition.
Now who killed me.
Why would you do that.
except on day 1.
I guess you could have narrowed it down further if you asked for roles as well, but I probably would have claimed seer then said the actual seer was evil. It's not a foolproof plan.