I didn't even Shawn Merriman's named called once last night. Did he even play in that game?
I think that I saw him on the field once! To be fair, I only remember Bart Scott's name being called once. But guys like Stephen Cooper and David Harris seemed to be in the middle of every play.
Also the Sanchise spike near the first half with 55 seconds left, where the Jets essentially only had 2 downs to play with before punting it.
I don't understand that article. he seems to criticize something and then criticize the exact opposite as well.
fuck my lack of understanding football time management.
The Chargers did try the onside kick, and they didn’t get it back. So the Jets had the ball with 2:12 left. Remember the Chargers had the one timeout. So the game was not quite wrapped up. The Jets ran the ball up the middle, got stopped, and there was 2:09 left, 2:08 left, 2:07 left …
And the Chargers did not call timeout. They let the clock go down to the two minute warning.
Why? What possible reason could the Chargers have had for letting the clock wind down? If they used their timeout here, and they stopped the Jets on the next play, it would be third down with exactly two minutes left. But because they did not use their timeout, when they stopped the Jets on the next play, and it was third down with 1:55 left.
It's a small mistake, and maybe Norv Turner had a bunch of plays in his mind, but it still cost his team. It's just something that's easily fixable. You don't exactly have to go to Football University to know when and when NOT to use a timeout. He was just pointing out that coaches spend hours studying game film to find some old habit that players do that might or might not show up in the game that could give them a small edge.
Except clock management is something that WILL show up in a game, and coaches easily mess it up. Les Miles anyone?
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
I get what he's saying but up above he says someone shouldn't have used a time out because the two minute warning was coming... it's the exact opposite complaint from the one you posted, so the article doesn't actually explain anything and just confuses me.
cowboys keeping phillips. i can get behind that since they defense turned all sorts of awesome after he took control. supposedly keeping roy williams too which i support. hes a great back you just need to throw to him and he needs to run his routes better.
i wish we could bump wade down to DC and get ryan tho. we need someone who will yell at people and not be a bumbling fuckup.
1st and 10 at SD 38 S.Greene right tackle to SD 38 for no gain (S.Phillips).
2nd and 10 at SD 38 S.Greene right tackle to SD 34 for 4 yards (J.Cesaire).
Timeout #3 by SD at 01:55.
3rd and 6 at SD 34 S.Greene right tackle to SD 29 for 5 yards (S.Merriman, L.Castillo).
Timeout #3 by NYJ at 01:09.
4th and 1 at SD 29 T.Jones up the middle to SD 27 for 2 yards (L.Castillo).
1st and 10 at SD 27 M.Sanchez kneels, dead ball declared at SD 28 for -1 yards.
End of Game
What SHOULD have happened
1st and 10 2:14
Greene runs for no gain
Chargers call their last TO immediately to stop clock at 2:09
2nd and 10 2:09
Greene runs for 4 yards
3rd and 6 2:00 warning
3rd and 6 Greene runs for 5 yards
4th and 1 ~1:55ish, Jets probably call timeout at 1:15
Thomas Jones of course gets the first down, but there's an extra 6 seconds left vs. the actual scenario.
I might've messed up the time, but I think that's what he was trying to point out. Same situation, calling the TO before the 2 minute warning saves you more time. Jets weren't going to pass with Sanchez.
The timeout in the jets game didn't matter. It was the difference of probably a second or three. While I guess it represents a technical "mistake," it's not one I think it's really fair to hold against a coach, especially when there are so many other examples of coaches failing at clock management.
Basically variable the reasoning is this: if norv had called a timeout before the two minute warning, the jets' first and second down plays would have taken 12 seconds (4-5 seconds for each play, plus the time between the end of the second down play and the two minute warning.) By letting the jets run their second play after the two minute warning, norv let the jets run another five seconds or so off the clock.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
yes. again I understand that (so I sincerely appreciate the time you put into that post) but earlier in the essay he cites an example where a timeout was NOT called and says the team fucked up. how can both be true?
I don't mean to say he's wrong and I don't mean to put it on you to teach me, it just confused the fuck out of me.
i do wonder what happened during that camera cut but it looked like the people didn't do anything
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Not taking sides here but that really does look like it was edited to make it look like the guy did nothing to get arrested. Maybe he really didn't, who knows.
Alternately, the guy had his camera out recording a guy doing a JETS chant, put the camera away, then pulled it back out when the guy was arrested. The people in the crowd seem to be pretty confused as to why he's being arrested.
Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
yes. again I understand that (so I sincerely appreciate the time you put into that post) but earlier in the essay he cites an example where a timeout was NOT called and says the team fucked up. how can both be true?
I don't mean to say he's wrong and I don't mean to put it on you to teach me, it just confused the fuck out of me.
because in his first example, the timeout didn't actually force the opposing team to run another play.
So, a play ends at >2:40 (2:43, whatever), and the playclock starts. The playclock is 40 seconds long, so that team will have to run one more play before the two minute warning. Taking a timeout in this situation doesn't accomplish anything, because the other team will still have to use only one of their downs before the two minute stoppage.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
thank you so much, that makes perfect sense but wasn't clicking.
that's why it matters that the guy said 45 seconds instead of 40, too. awesome, thanks, for real.
Alternately, the guy had his camera out recording a guy doing a JETS chant, put the camera away, then pulled it back out when the guy was arrested. The people in the crowd seem to be pretty confused as to why he's being arrested.
[oliver stone]
The cameraman set it all up.
Why videotape someone doing a simple Jets chant? And then he turns off the camera and probably throws nachos at the cops, and then turns it back on to watch the obnoxious Jet fan take the fall for it, all the while the other Chargers fans wonder why that guy is being arrested and not the cameraman.
In truth, there were two cameramen. Keith Hernandez was spat on as well.
Of course there could be bigger coaching issues to write about
like telling your players not to headbutt people in playoff games
kicking the penalty flag is much more silly.
And thanks Dyscord, the post I was writing was twice as long and a lot more confusing.
edit: I think the Refs HAD to call kicking the penalty flag, 'cause I mean, WHO DOES THAT. Refs might have been setting an example, but whatever. That incomplete/fumble reversal was worse.
In the J-E-T-S video, you can hear in the background that someone was saying the guy didn't do anything even though someone threw something at him.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
I don't see how that's not unsportsman-like conduct, kicking the flag.
The NFC Championship game is going to be great next week. Two best teams in the NFC going against each other is how it should be. Geux Vikes!
Yup. And it's going to come down to what it did in the last Saints-Vikings match-up: Saints offense vs. Vikings defense. That is going to determine this game, pure and simple. If the Vikings D brings their A-game, they will win. If they don't, they will lose. Because it won't matter how well the Vikings offense does, they'll just be playing catch-up the whole game, and that's something they can't win at New Orleans.
17th_Knight on
Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. I am SHODAN.
Alternately, the guy had his camera out recording a guy doing a JETS chant, put the camera away, then pulled it back out when the guy was arrested. The people in the crowd seem to be pretty confused as to why he's being arrested.
[oliver stone]
The cameraman set it all up.
Why videotape someone doing a simple Jets chant? And then he turns off the camera and probably throws nachos at the cops, and then turns it back on to watch the obnoxious Jet fan take the fall for it, all the while the other Chargers fans wonder why that guy is being arrested and not the cameraman.
In truth, there were two cameramen. Keith Hernandez was spat on as well.
[/oliver stone]
There had to have been a second spitter.
Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
oh I can see how it's unsportsmanlike, I just don't care. And I think it's a silly thing to potentially influence the outcome of the game over
its a disregard for the rules of the game
Seriously, how do you keep the players from acting like shitheads otherwise? Fine them? They make $Texas a year, they don't care. But they care about things that affect the game they're trying to win.
Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
Its also trying to get people to calm down. If sports gets too emotional or violent theyll always start calling more penalties/fouls to get them to stop acting retarded and play the damn game.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
it's a reasonable rule, he broke the rule. should it stop being a rule in big time game situations?
The NFC Championship game is going to be great next week. Two best teams in the NFC going against each other is how it should be. Geux Vikes!
Yup. And it's going to come down to what it did in the last Saints-Vikings match-up: Saints offense vs. Vikings defense. That is going to determine this game, pure and simple. If the Vikings D brings their A-game, they will win. If they don't, they will lose. Because it won't matter how well the Vikings offense does, they'll just be playing catch-up the whole game, and that's something they can't win at New Orleans.
I don't know, I've been enjoying telling my best friend (Vikings fan) just how much I'll revel in it when the game is won by Darren Sharper picking off Favre.
He turns a little purple at the thought each time. Love it
The headbutt one was totally justified too. that's more than disregard for sportmanlike conduct it's an unnecessary addition of injury to an already injury prone sport
Seriously, how do you keep the players from acting like shitheads otherwise? Fine them? They make $Texas a year, they don't care. But they care about things that affect the game they're trying to win.
I agree, actually. Fines have always seemed utterly ludicrous in football. These guys care more about winning one game, mid-season, more than they do about $100,000. I think anyone who has played sports at a competitive level will understand this.
Hell, gamers should understand that too.
The man blatantly broke a rule, he was penalized for it, end of story. All this means is that, in really big games, you should watch your ass all the more. Yes, it's far more emotionally charged, but save that shit for the bench, don't go out on the field taunting, kicking things, and making an ass of yourself.
Act like a professional or go home.
17th_Knight on
Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence. I am SHODAN.
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Idx86Long days and pleasant nights.Registered Userregular
The NFC Championship game is going to be great next week. Two best teams in the NFC going against each other is how it should be. Geux Vikes!
Yup. And it's going to come down to what it did in the last Saints-Vikings match-up: Saints offense vs. Vikings defense. That is going to determine this game, pure and simple. If the Vikings D brings their A-game, they will win. If they don't, they will lose. Because it won't matter how well the Vikings offense does, they'll just be playing catch-up the whole game, and that's something they can't win at New Orleans.
I don't know, I've been enjoying telling my best friend (Vikings fan) just how much I'll revel in it when the game is won by Darren Sharper picking off Favre.
He turns a little purple at the thought each time. Love it
It's equally conceivable that he'll take a bad angle on someone and let them blow by for a TD. This is what he managed to do all season long in 2008, which punched his ticket out of Minnesota.
Idx86 on
2008, 2012, 2014 D&D "Rare With No Sauce" League Fantasy Football Champion!
Posts
You asshole. :x
If you are going to steal the Cajun style, spell it right.
Geaux Saints!
I don't understand that article. he seems to criticize something and then criticize the exact opposite as well.
fuck my lack of understanding football time management.
I think that I saw him on the field once! To be fair, I only remember Bart Scott's name being called once. But guys like Stephen Cooper and David Harris seemed to be in the middle of every play.
How do I kick field goal?
It's a small mistake, and maybe Norv Turner had a bunch of plays in his mind, but it still cost his team. It's just something that's easily fixable. You don't exactly have to go to Football University to know when and when NOT to use a timeout. He was just pointing out that coaches spend hours studying game film to find some old habit that players do that might or might not show up in the game that could give them a small edge.
Except clock management is something that WILL show up in a game, and coaches easily mess it up. Les Miles anyone?
cowboys keeping phillips. i can get behind that since they defense turned all sorts of awesome after he took control. supposedly keeping roy williams too which i support. hes a great back you just need to throw to him and he needs to run his routes better.
i wish we could bump wade down to DC and get ryan tho. we need someone who will yell at people and not be a bumbling fuckup.
2nd and 10 at SD 38 S.Greene right tackle to SD 34 for 4 yards (J.Cesaire).
Timeout #3 by SD at 01:55.
3rd and 6 at SD 34 S.Greene right tackle to SD 29 for 5 yards (S.Merriman, L.Castillo).
Timeout #3 by NYJ at 01:09.
4th and 1 at SD 29 T.Jones up the middle to SD 27 for 2 yards (L.Castillo).
1st and 10 at SD 27 M.Sanchez kneels, dead ball declared at SD 28 for -1 yards.
End of Game
What SHOULD have happened
1st and 10 2:14
Greene runs for no gain
Chargers call their last TO immediately to stop clock at 2:09
2nd and 10 2:09
Greene runs for 4 yards
3rd and 6 2:00 warning
3rd and 6 Greene runs for 5 yards
4th and 1 ~1:55ish, Jets probably call timeout at 1:15
Thomas Jones of course gets the first down, but there's an extra 6 seconds left vs. the actual scenario.
I might've messed up the time, but I think that's what he was trying to point out. Same situation, calling the TO before the 2 minute warning saves you more time. Jets weren't going to pass with Sanchez.
Basically variable the reasoning is this: if norv had called a timeout before the two minute warning, the jets' first and second down plays would have taken 12 seconds (4-5 seconds for each play, plus the time between the end of the second down play and the two minute warning.) By letting the jets run their second play after the two minute warning, norv let the jets run another five seconds or so off the clock.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I don't mean to say he's wrong and I don't mean to put it on you to teach me, it just confused the fuck out of me.
i do wonder what happened during that camera cut but it looked like the people didn't do anything
first they came for the jets fans....
because in his first example, the timeout didn't actually force the opposing team to run another play.
So, a play ends at >2:40 (2:43, whatever), and the playclock starts. The playclock is 40 seconds long, so that team will have to run one more play before the two minute warning. Taking a timeout in this situation doesn't accomplish anything, because the other team will still have to use only one of their downs before the two minute stoppage.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
that's why it matters that the guy said 45 seconds instead of 40, too. awesome, thanks, for real.
like telling your players not to headbutt people in playoff games
[oliver stone]
The cameraman set it all up.
Why videotape someone doing a simple Jets chant? And then he turns off the camera and probably throws nachos at the cops, and then turns it back on to watch the obnoxious Jet fan take the fall for it, all the while the other Chargers fans wonder why that guy is being arrested and not the cameraman.
In truth, there were two cameramen. Keith Hernandez was spat on as well.
[/oliver stone]
The headbutt one I guess you have to call, but the one they called on vincent jackson for kicking the challenge flag was really worthless
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
kicking the penalty flag is much more silly.
And thanks Dyscord, the post I was writing was twice as long and a lot more confusing.
edit: I think the Refs HAD to call kicking the penalty flag, 'cause I mean, WHO DOES THAT. Refs might have been setting an example, but whatever. That incomplete/fumble reversal was worse.
In the J-E-T-S video, you can hear in the background that someone was saying the guy didn't do anything even though someone threw something at him.
Yup. And it's going to come down to what it did in the last Saints-Vikings match-up: Saints offense vs. Vikings defense. That is going to determine this game, pure and simple. If the Vikings D brings their A-game, they will win. If they don't, they will lose. Because it won't matter how well the Vikings offense does, they'll just be playing catch-up the whole game, and that's something they can't win at New Orleans.
There had to have been a second spitter.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
its a disregard for the rules of the game
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Seriously, how do you keep the players from acting like shitheads otherwise? Fine them? They make $Texas a year, they don't care. But they care about things that affect the game they're trying to win.
so what
edit: I mean every penalty, by definition, is "disregard for the rules of the game," but they don't all get fifteen yards tacked on
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I don't know, I've been enjoying telling my best friend (Vikings fan) just how much I'll revel in it when the game is won by Darren Sharper picking off Favre.
He turns a little purple at the thought each time. Love it
I agree, actually. Fines have always seemed utterly ludicrous in football. These guys care more about winning one game, mid-season, more than they do about $100,000. I think anyone who has played sports at a competitive level will understand this.
Hell, gamers should understand that too.
The man blatantly broke a rule, he was penalized for it, end of story. All this means is that, in really big games, you should watch your ass all the more. Yes, it's far more emotionally charged, but save that shit for the bench, don't go out on the field taunting, kicking things, and making an ass of yourself.
Act like a professional or go home.
It's equally conceivable that he'll take a bad angle on someone and let them blow by for a TD. This is what he managed to do all season long in 2008, which punched his ticket out of Minnesota.
2008, 2012, 2014 D&D "Rare With No Sauce" League Fantasy Football Champion!
I think around :50 someone starts yelling "ATTICA! ATTICA!" at the cops. I started laughing.