So I'm doing Underbog on my Death Knight and we wipe before the hunter boss because someone was an idiot. Only the healer and myself ran back, so we teabagged the DPS, then killed the last two bosses ourselves while the lazy shits whined.
Long ago on my priest I tried to heal underbog with 2 druids and 2 rogues
I died on the trash before the ramp to the first boss and several times up to that because I cannot stealth
They wanted me to fade my way through the trash to the boss
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
So I'm doing Underbog on my Death Knight and we wipe before the hunter boss because someone was an idiot. Only the healer and myself ran back, so we teabagged the DPS, then killed the last two bosses ourselves while the lazy shits whined.
Best random run ever.
this is the best thing
Wait, you had time to kill two bosses and they still didn't run back? Fuck those silly geese.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
"Unable to determine hostname or IP for fucking_douches"
4) Long-term, the paladin manner of generating AE damage and threat is probably too good, especially given how simple it is. To be honest, we have very mixed feelings on the whole AE tanking game. We brought the druid and warrior more in line with the paladin for fear of recreating the Shattered Halls / Mount Hyjal experience, where other tanks just weren't competitive. What that has led to of course is the AE tank + AE style of damage for almost every pull. You need the tools to be able to tank legitimate adds fights (imagine lots of incoming mobs), but does that mean every pull needs to devolve into that? We'd like to see less AE overall, so buffing everyone's AE tools isn't going to be tops on our agenda. That does however mean that we really can't afford to have a "best AE tank", and while things are more fair there than they were in BC, they aren't fair enough.
Hopefully Cataclysm isn't a smelly AOE fest.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
I would just prefer it if they reduced all AOE tanking down to "enough threat gen to keep it off the healer but not off DPS".
I'm curious how they'd accomplish reducing "pull it all and aoe it down" style instancing without hurting their "30 minutes or less" mark for most instance runs. The more they make us mark, CC and pull, the longer it's going to take a given run, and the more dangerous or tricky you make the tanking, the easier it'll be to wipe.
I suppose they could reduce the number of trash packs and/or their size, and include mechanics (hopefully fun ones, not bullshit ones like half the mobs having a fixate), but honestly I'm happy where things are now, as a tank, healer and dps.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Hate: Having a scheduled raid for one boss, and then not actually starting said boss until 74 minutes past the scheduled time, while everyone is waiting on two or three people. Then we wipe twice and bail. Way to waste everyone's time.
Happy: I think I'm calling it quits on the raiding, but I have a group of IRL friends to chain heroics with, which are much more fun.
So I've been working on a priest alt in the LFD system. He's a troll priest, in heirloom gear, and he's leveling Disc. I usually have very little downtime between instances so it works out well for me. There's been the odd wipe here and there, but it's usually fine and people figure out what to not do right afterwards. I've had some tanks deliberately test me (hitting all 4 braziers in BFD at once, for example), but usually it's not as bad as it sounds.
Saturday though, was the first time I've had to specifically drop group in the middle and put a tank on ignore. The "tank" was a level 21 paladin. I had to remind him after the first two pulls that he needed to have a seal up and had to tell him which one. He didn't use taunt, would use hand of protection on himself at random moments, and heaven help me on aoe pulls since he didn't like using consecrate at all because of the mana cost. After the 2nd wipe in 20 yards of movement, I apologized in /party, left group and put the tank on ignore.
Before people bitch me out for not trying to help him, I had told him repeatedly not to use hand of protection on himself, and also that he needed to use consecration on group pulls to at least keep the mobs from beating on me (This warning he got about 4 times during the instance, and rather emphatically during the first wipe where he tanked one mob while 6 beat on me).
Sadpanda: Fri was suppose to be Algalon and Yogg 25 (my last one for ironbound drake!) but apperantly the raid night before was full of fail (connection issues etc) so was asked if i could step in ICC25 to finish it up before going to Uld. Sure I say, how hard can it be?
4 hours of wiping on Prof P, each of the wipes is him being at 1-4%. So no Uld, no badges. You can almost cut through the frustration in the air by the 3rd hour... It made me appreciate my 10 man and the simplicity of only worring about coordination of 10 people vs 25 in the same space.
Happy: Even though the night was going horribly I was always last to die, took least dmg and stay top 5 DPS even though my gear is primarily 10man and they are all in 25 man. /flex.
Happy2: My tanky finally got the cloak from normal HoR, no more PeeVeePee cloak! And I did awesome tanking it (i know it's not heroic, but usually i have such rotten luck with random pugs). The stars aligned for me that night My pally's gear is startng to come along nicely.
Why would anyone bitch you out for not helping him, nobody? He's seriously retarded and you did the right thing.
Eh, some people get the idea that you are supposed to help nuture new tanks along.
Which I'm all for. I'll gladly share whatever knowledge I have (I've tanked heroics and some raids with 3/4 of the tank classes, most of my experience being with pally). I just wanted to make sure that people were aware that this guy was a lost cause from the word "go."
It's the last day for Malygos I have to go work tonight yay 7 days in a row. I do want to do this week's raid but it seems everyone has done it on either side sigh
a happy though is I got the Needle encrusted Scorpion on my rogue last night
4) Long-term, the paladin manner of generating AE damage and threat is probably too good, especially given how simple it is. To be honest, we have very mixed feelings on the whole AE tanking game. We brought the druid and warrior more in line with the paladin for fear of recreating the Shattered Halls / Mount Hyjal experience, where other tanks just weren't competitive. What that has led to of course is the AE tank + AE style of damage for almost every pull. You need the tools to be able to tank legitimate adds fights (imagine lots of incoming mobs), but does that mean every pull needs to devolve into that? We'd like to see less AE overall, so buffing everyone's AE tools isn't going to be tops on our agenda. That does however mean that we really can't afford to have a "best AE tank", and while things are more fair there than they were in BC, they aren't fair enough.
Hopefully Cataclysm isn't a smelly AOE fest.
Meh.
If they set aside AOE tanking, I don't think I'll really want to tank anymore. I find it fun, even if it is "too mindless" or whatever. I don't care if all tanks have similar AOE abilities, that's only fair, but if every tank gets nerfed in that respect... Meh. What I first enjoyed about tanking was not tanking a single boss or managing CC, but getting the attention of a bunch of mobs, dragging them around a corner, and letting them attempt to beat the crap out of me while I dodged and deflected blows left and right and filled the air with gold sparklies.
I like AoE tanking because it's a lot better than the old alternative of discussing CC every pull which turned most TBC-era heroics into 2 or 3 hour campaigns until you outgeared them enough to make it an AoE fest.
added to their desire to make healing more difficult, I think that Cata will be a headache at first.
I read it as, making healing more fun. At least, that's how I think it will play out in 5 mans. Even when not at all overgeared in level 70 instances, my shaman spends entirely too much time not needing to heal.
4) Long-term, the paladin manner of generating AE damage and threat is probably too good, especially given how simple it is. To be honest, we have very mixed feelings on the whole AE tanking game. We brought the druid and warrior more in line with the paladin for fear of recreating the Shattered Halls / Mount Hyjal experience, where other tanks just weren't competitive. What that has led to of course is the AE tank + AE style of damage for almost every pull. You need the tools to be able to tank legitimate adds fights (imagine lots of incoming mobs), but does that mean every pull needs to devolve into that? We'd like to see less AE overall, so buffing everyone's AE tools isn't going to be tops on our agenda. That does however mean that we really can't afford to have a "best AE tank", and while things are more fair there than they were in BC, they aren't fair enough.
Hopefully Cataclysm isn't a smelly AOE fest.
Meh.
If they set aside AOE tanking, I don't think I'll really want to tank anymore. I find it fun, even if it is "too mindless" or whatever. I don't care if all tanks have similar AOE abilities, that's only fair, but if every tank gets nerfed in that respect... Meh. What I first enjoyed about tanking was not tanking a single boss or managing CC, but getting the attention of a bunch of mobs, dragging them around a corner, and letting them attempt to beat the crap out of me while I dodged and deflected blows left and right and filled the air with gold sparklies.
Yea... sooo the 2 things that require the most out of their players(imo) tanking and healing.. they are going to make it i would say harder and more stressfull for those players. GIANT SIGH. My main is a pally healer(solo healed 10 man deathwhisper and pretty much saurfang on sunday). I find it fun and a big F YEA when i pull something like that off, but having to do that all the time is just not going to be fun.
We got to, im not sure which boss it is(both look identical, one does slimes, one doesn't).. well the one that doesn't do the slimes.. and i was like.. F this.. how is this supposed to be fun.
I don't have a tank right now and i do think tanks have the hardest jobs, and now they want to make it harder. I don't mind 5 man instances being a cake walk. Raids fine if you need CC etc, to a point tho. Right now, i get on my mage or rogue and i'm so carefree or don't give a damn, that i know 90% of the fights are not entirely on my shoulders thats its actually fun. Just blast/stab things.
Happy: Solo heal 10m deathwhisper
Hate(1): Died right at the end of the deathwhisper fight. Only 2 deaths, me and the other shammy healer who thought sititng in a big green circle heals you.
Hate(2): No upgrades in 10/25 icc, and the token that dropped, i lost the roll on. Sigh
Hate(3): Stuck to pugging icc 10/25 even tho we clear the first wing, would like to go deeper.
As long as DPS can spam AoE on several targets and kill them fairly quickly DPS will continue to spam AoE on several targets. But crank that AoE damage down so that killing 5+ targets with AoE takes longer then killing those 5+ targets with single attacks...
But then there would be no point in having AoE damaging spells to begin with.
The problem is they don't like us killing lots of guys with AoE abilities and make it mindless. So here's a novel idea, stop putting lots of guys.
Put 1 or 2 guys at a time in or just make every instance like ToC. I'd say 3 baddies at the most because more than that it becomes difficult to tank without AoE.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Or make them like H AN. Its as fast as instance as you want to make it, but it can still wipe you if you are stupid. First room first boss, 3 packs. You can AOE em down, tho im not sure thats going to be that easy even now with if the skirmishers are not handled quickly, as they can still mess up a clothie pretty fast. Or you can do each pack individually. Second boss, same thing, though they are no where as punishing, but the poisons can be a problem. Anub, well the 2 things before anub arent really much of a problem.
I personally LOVE H AN. Quick and relatively easy depending on how you approach it. I think its the best instance in WOTLK to be honest. Worst being HoS(GODDAMN THE BRANN EVENT), and of course CoS.. GODDAMN 7.5 to first pull!.. ugh
As long as DPS can spam AoE on several targets and kill them fairly quickly DPS will continue to spam AoE on several targets. But crank that AoE damage down so that killing 5+ targets with AoE takes longer then killing those 5+ targets with single attacks...
But then there would be no point in having AoE damaging spells to begin with.
Or the alternative from how it used to work, 5 targets would deal way too much damage to the tank and kill it in short order.
Or make them like H AN. Its as fast as instance as you want to make it, but it can still wipe you if you are stupid. First room first boss, 3 packs. You can AOE em down, tho im not sure thats going to be that easy even now with if the skirmishers are not handled quickly, as they can still mess up a clothie pretty fast. Or you can do each pack individually. Second boss, same thing, though they are no where as punishing, but the poisons can be a problem. Anub, well the 2 things before anub arent really much of a problem.
I personally LOVE H AN. Quick and relatively easy depending on how you approach it. I think its the best instance in WOTLK to be honest. Worst being HoS(GODDAMN THE BRANN EVENT), and of course CoS.. GODDAMN 7.5 to first pull!.. ugh
I have to disagree about HoS. In terms of time spent, yes its a long event and when you out gear it it becomes pretty boring. On the other hand, the mechanics in most of the heroic bosses in WotLK are primarily there to prepare you for raiding. Honestly, if I met someone who couldn't do their job in the Tribunal event in HoS, I wouldn't even consider bringing them to Naxx let alone anything resembling progression content. I'm not just talking gear/dps performance, if some chuckle-fuck can't get out of the eye beams or eats every single purple orb debuff they have no place in a raid.
Heroics are a chance to learn common encounter mechanics in an environment where the stakes aren't as high. Obviously for those of us who look at Heroics strictly at a badges/hour perspective it seems like a waste of time. Problem is, getting us easy badges was not the only reason Blizz implemented the system. It was to make it a hell of a lot easier for starting 80's to actually run these things and get started.
Or make them like H AN. Its as fast as instance as you want to make it, but it can still wipe you if you are stupid. First room first boss, 3 packs. You can AOE em down, tho im not sure thats going to be that easy even now with if the skirmishers are not handled quickly, as they can still mess up a clothie pretty fast. Or you can do each pack individually. Second boss, same thing, though they are no where as punishing, but the poisons can be a problem. Anub, well the 2 things before anub arent really much of a problem.
I personally LOVE H AN. Quick and relatively easy depending on how you approach it. I think its the best instance in WOTLK to be honest. Worst being HoS(GODDAMN THE BRANN EVENT), and of course CoS.. GODDAMN 7.5 to first pull!.. ugh
I have to disagree about HoS. In terms of time spent, yes its a long event and when you out gear it it becomes pretty boring. On the other hand, the mechanics in most of the heroic bosses in WotLK are primarily there to prepare you for raiding. Honestly, if I met someone who couldn't do their job in the Tribunal event in HoS, I wouldn't even consider bringing them to Naxx let alone anything resembling progression content. I'm not just talking gear/dps performance, if some chuckle-fuck can't get out of the eye beams or eats every single purple orb debuff they have no place in a raid.
Heroics are a chance to learn common encounter mechanics in an environment where the stakes aren't as high. Obviously for those of us who look at Heroics strictly at a badges/hour perspective it seems like a waste of time. Problem is, getting us easy badges was not the only reason Blizz implemented the system. It was to make it a hell of a lot easier for starting 80's to actually run these things and get started.
Well said.
It's always been a base part of recruitment of our raids to the RL with a couple of officers to do Heroics instead of carrying them through a raid to find out how they really preform.
And I agree with the new system Blizzard has going on. I can imagine how turned off any new comers would be if they had to scrap up heroic gear and try to catch up to anyone doing ToC/ICC, especially if no raid will take them in to get started. Though, on the flip sid,. Having to work hard to get your gear also gave you the oppertunity to learn your character better (if you didn't while getting 80) and playing as a "team" instead of entering a heroic with t9 and t10 people and wanding/auto attack whilst collecting what they dont want.
I'm not just talking gear/dps performance, if some chuckle-fuck can't get out of the eye beams or eats every single purple orb debuff they have no place in a raid.
Huh. This is the first time I've ever been aware of the dark matter attack. The eye beams seem to occur more often and are impossible to miss, but I guess the event has always been so easy that I never had to learn about the orbs. But come to think of it, if the group was low enough on gear, I could see these things being a good benchmark. Except for Sjonnir, he's a bit more run of the mill.
I also kind of disagree with the idea of making tanking harder, that could end in disaster.
But as far as things they're perhaps trying, take a look at Halls of Reflection, as most would consider it the most challenging 5 man they've made.
For the first part, you don't get to set up pulls really in advance, which makes it tough on the tank and you also don't get to control when the next pull comes, which makes it tough on the healer. To say nothing of the various abilities in those waves that you had to deal with in various ways.
And the second part is kind of similar, lack of control of the situation, though at least you can set things up a little bit better compared to the first part.
I'm not just talking gear/dps performance, if some chuckle-fuck can't get out of the eye beams or eats every single purple orb debuff they have no place in a raid.
Huh. This is the first time I've ever been aware of the dark matter attack. The eye beams seem to occur more often and are impossible to miss, but I guess the event has always been so easy that I never had to learn about the orbs. But come to think of it, if the group was low enough on gear, I could see these things being a good benchmark. Except for Sjonnir, he's a bit more run of the mill.
The other two bosses definitely test the 'Can you follow basic instructions?' and 'Can you actually spread out?'
From a beginner's perspect even the last boss presents the 'Know when to run the fuck away from the boss.' and also 'Can the tank manage a trickle of adds coming into play?'
Many of the raid mechanics and concepts are introduced in limited versions in heroics. Obviously once you appreciably outgear heroics you don't really notice it anymore.
Many of the raid mechanics and concepts are introduced in limited versions in heroics. Obviously once you appreciably outgear heroics you don't really notice it anymore.
My favorite is in FoS with the Devourer of Souls. There always seems to be that one person in a PuG that can't out run the giant white beam o death. I have actually heard people say it was "too fast" olo <O.o>
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this is the best thing
I died on the trash before the ramp to the first boss and several times up to that because I cannot stealth
They wanted me to fade my way through the trash to the boss
Wait, you had time to kill two bosses and they still didn't run back? Fuck those silly geese.
hate: decided to do random heroics with some guildies, oculus
happiest: got the blue drake in my bag
Hopefully Cataclysm isn't a smelly AOE fest.
That would kill any chance of Fire and Frostfire mages ever coming back into style. Still, I mostly agree.
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I suppose they could reduce the number of trash packs and/or their size, and include mechanics (hopefully fun ones, not bullshit ones like half the mobs having a fixate), but honestly I'm happy where things are now, as a tank, healer and dps.
Happy also: Love the new armory thing. Played for about 20 minutes getting his pose just right in there.
Hate: What happened in this post (sorry, not retyping it)
Hope: I can get some ICC 5-mans or maybe a ToTC/ICC on my death knight so I can get some better gear. I am still using greens in places
Happy: Despite the previous 'hope' I am still routinely pulling 2.6k in heroics, which is aces for my gear level.
Happy: I think I'm calling it quits on the raiding, but I have a group of IRL friends to chain heroics with, which are much more fun.
Half the damn province is home today and I'm at work. FML
SW:Tor - Tao - Kryatt Dragon Server
Saturday though, was the first time I've had to specifically drop group in the middle and put a tank on ignore. The "tank" was a level 21 paladin. I had to remind him after the first two pulls that he needed to have a seal up and had to tell him which one. He didn't use taunt, would use hand of protection on himself at random moments, and heaven help me on aoe pulls since he didn't like using consecrate at all because of the mana cost. After the 2nd wipe in 20 yards of movement, I apologized in /party, left group and put the tank on ignore.
Before people bitch me out for not trying to help him, I had told him repeatedly not to use hand of protection on himself, and also that he needed to use consecration on group pulls to at least keep the mobs from beating on me (This warning he got about 4 times during the instance, and rather emphatically during the first wipe where he tanked one mob while 6 beat on me).
4 hours of wiping on Prof P, each of the wipes is him being at 1-4%. So no Uld, no badges. You can almost cut through the frustration in the air by the 3rd hour... It made me appreciate my 10 man and the simplicity of only worring about coordination of 10 people vs 25 in the same space.
Happy: Even though the night was going horribly I was always last to die, took least dmg and stay top 5 DPS even though my gear is primarily 10man and they are all in 25 man. /flex.
Happy2: My tanky finally got the cloak from normal HoR, no more PeeVeePee cloak! And I did awesome tanking it (i know it's not heroic, but usually i have such rotten luck with random pugs). The stars aligned for me that night
Eh, some people get the idea that you are supposed to help nuture new tanks along.
Which I'm all for. I'll gladly share whatever knowledge I have (I've tanked heroics and some raids with 3/4 of the tank classes, most of my experience being with pally). I just wanted to make sure that people were aware that this guy was a lost cause from the word "go."
Happy - New neck for me.
Hate - Everyone was too tired to go see a new wing.. boo.. silly gesse.
SW:Tor - Tao - Kryatt Dragon Server
a happy though is I got the Needle encrusted Scorpion on my rogue last night
Meh.
If they set aside AOE tanking, I don't think I'll really want to tank anymore. I find it fun, even if it is "too mindless" or whatever. I don't care if all tanks have similar AOE abilities, that's only fair, but if every tank gets nerfed in that respect... Meh. What I first enjoyed about tanking was not tanking a single boss or managing CC, but getting the attention of a bunch of mobs, dragging them around a corner, and letting them attempt to beat the crap out of me while I dodged and deflected blows left and right and filled the air with gold sparklies.
I read it as, making healing more fun. At least, that's how I think it will play out in 5 mans. Even when not at all overgeared in level 70 instances, my shaman spends entirely too much time not needing to heal.
Yea... sooo the 2 things that require the most out of their players(imo) tanking and healing.. they are going to make it i would say harder and more stressfull for those players. GIANT SIGH. My main is a pally healer(solo healed 10 man deathwhisper and pretty much saurfang on sunday). I find it fun and a big F YEA when i pull something like that off, but having to do that all the time is just not going to be fun.
We got to, im not sure which boss it is(both look identical, one does slimes, one doesn't).. well the one that doesn't do the slimes.. and i was like.. F this.. how is this supposed to be fun.
I don't have a tank right now and i do think tanks have the hardest jobs, and now they want to make it harder. I don't mind 5 man instances being a cake walk. Raids fine if you need CC etc, to a point tho. Right now, i get on my mage or rogue and i'm so carefree or don't give a damn, that i know 90% of the fights are not entirely on my shoulders thats its actually fun. Just blast/stab things.
Happy: Solo heal 10m deathwhisper
Hate(1): Died right at the end of the deathwhisper fight. Only 2 deaths, me and the other shammy healer who thought sititng in a big green circle heals you.
Hate(2): No upgrades in 10/25 icc, and the token that dropped, i lost the roll on. Sigh
Hate(3): Stuck to pugging icc 10/25 even tho we clear the first wing, would like to go deeper.
But then there would be no point in having AoE damaging spells to begin with.
Put 1 or 2 guys at a time in or just make every instance like ToC. I'd say 3 baddies at the most because more than that it becomes difficult to tank without AoE.
I personally LOVE H AN. Quick and relatively easy depending on how you approach it. I think its the best instance in WOTLK to be honest. Worst being HoS(GODDAMN THE BRANN EVENT), and of course CoS.. GODDAMN 7.5 to first pull!.. ugh
Or the alternative from how it used to work, 5 targets would deal way too much damage to the tank and kill it in short order.
I have to disagree about HoS. In terms of time spent, yes its a long event and when you out gear it it becomes pretty boring. On the other hand, the mechanics in most of the heroic bosses in WotLK are primarily there to prepare you for raiding. Honestly, if I met someone who couldn't do their job in the Tribunal event in HoS, I wouldn't even consider bringing them to Naxx let alone anything resembling progression content. I'm not just talking gear/dps performance, if some chuckle-fuck can't get out of the eye beams or eats every single purple orb debuff they have no place in a raid.
Heroics are a chance to learn common encounter mechanics in an environment where the stakes aren't as high. Obviously for those of us who look at Heroics strictly at a badges/hour perspective it seems like a waste of time. Problem is, getting us easy badges was not the only reason Blizz implemented the system. It was to make it a hell of a lot easier for starting 80's to actually run these things and get started.
Well said.
It's always been a base part of recruitment of our raids to the RL with a couple of officers to do Heroics instead of carrying them through a raid to find out how they really preform.
And I agree with the new system Blizzard has going on. I can imagine how turned off any new comers would be if they had to scrap up heroic gear and try to catch up to anyone doing ToC/ICC, especially if no raid will take them in to get started. Though, on the flip sid,. Having to work hard to get your gear also gave you the oppertunity to learn your character better (if you didn't while getting 80) and playing as a "team" instead of entering a heroic with t9 and t10 people and wanding/auto attack whilst collecting what they dont want.
Huh. This is the first time I've ever been aware of the dark matter attack. The eye beams seem to occur more often and are impossible to miss, but I guess the event has always been so easy that I never had to learn about the orbs. But come to think of it, if the group was low enough on gear, I could see these things being a good benchmark. Except for Sjonnir, he's a bit more run of the mill.
But as far as things they're perhaps trying, take a look at Halls of Reflection, as most would consider it the most challenging 5 man they've made.
For the first part, you don't get to set up pulls really in advance, which makes it tough on the tank and you also don't get to control when the next pull comes, which makes it tough on the healer. To say nothing of the various abilities in those waves that you had to deal with in various ways.
And the second part is kind of similar, lack of control of the situation, though at least you can set things up a little bit better compared to the first part.
The other two bosses definitely test the 'Can you follow basic instructions?' and 'Can you actually spread out?'
From a beginner's perspect even the last boss presents the 'Know when to run the fuck away from the boss.' and also 'Can the tank manage a trickle of adds coming into play?'
Many of the raid mechanics and concepts are introduced in limited versions in heroics. Obviously once you appreciably outgear heroics you don't really notice it anymore.
My favorite is in FoS with the Devourer of Souls. There always seems to be that one person in a PuG that can't out run the giant white beam o death. I have actually heard people say it was "too fast" olo <O.o>