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So, you thought Zeitgeist: The Movie was bad?

Kevin R BrownKevin R Brown __BANNED USERS
edited January 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Well you ain't seen nothing yet.

I was coerced into watching a 'documentary' called House of Numbers today. I contemplated beating the individual who recommended I watch it with him to death as the credits started rolling, but just barely managed to restrain myself.


This is the single most disgusting piece of tripe I've ever heard of. It is being used, right now, to reinforce superstition and paranoia in Africa and block treatment / prevention of HIV - and there is apparently even some growing movement in Western countries supporting this bizarre idea that AIDS is not caused by the HIV virus (...the film seems to be undecided as to whether it simply wants to 'discredit' the connection between HIV and AIDS or whether it wants to deny that HIV exists at all).


Every film festival that awarded this garbage with a 'Best Documentary' badge should hang their head in shame, and if you're living in Portland, I would encourage you to protest the screening of this film. It's bad enough that these people are poisoning minds and murdering the impoverished - it's unconscionable that they should be filling their own pockets while doing so.

' As always when their class interests are at stake, the capitalists can dispense with noble sentiments like the right to free speech or the struggle against tyranny.'
Kevin R Brown on

Posts

  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2010
    From the Wikipedia page:

    "In the film, Leung interviews a range of scientists and AIDS denialists, including Christine Maggiore, an HIV-positive denialist whose 3-year-old daughter died of untreated AIDS. Maggiore herself died with pneumonia and several AIDS-related infections several months before the film's release, although her death is not acknowledged in the film."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Numbers

    dot dot -fucking- dot

    Doc on
  • BehemothBehemoth Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Apparently that's a common thing in the denialist community!
    wiki wrote:
    For example, the magazine Continuum, which consistently denied the existence of HIV/AIDS, shut down when its editors all died of AIDS-related causes. In every case, the AIDS denialist community attributed the deaths to unknown causes, secret drug use, or stress rather than HIV/AIDS.[17][54] Similarly, several HIV-positive former dissidents have reported being ostracized by the AIDS-denialist community after they developed AIDS and decided to pursue effective antiretroviral treatment.[56]

    It would be hilarious if it weren't so depressing.

    Behemoth on
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  • ElitistbElitistb Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    What ... the ... fuck?

    This trend of "My opinion is equal to the weight of established scientific consensus despite me not having any goddamn evidence to back up my position" has got to stop.

    Elitistb on
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  • Kevin R BrownKevin R Brown __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2010
    It's just insane. I mean, clearly the denialists themselves are beyond any hope or redemption at this point (there's not much hope of turning back once your own friends & family actually die of AIDS and you still deny it's existence), but I hope I can at least strangle their rhetoric. The virus is already doing more than enough damage without a heap of bullshit helping it along.

    Kevin R Brown on
    ' As always when their class interests are at stake, the capitalists can dispense with noble sentiments like the right to free speech or the struggle against tyranny.'
  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Having watched the promo on the Web site, I'm struck by two things:
    1. The bit in London when he's interviewing people on the street about why they think HIV causes AIDS, and it's because....DUN DUN DUN...the scientific community tells them so! The horror! They haven't personally done a metastudy of all available data, or better done a microbiological research project analyzing blood for themselves.

    2. The one guy who says, "It....hehehe....exists." He has bad teeth and is kind of creepy, therefore he is wrong.

    GoodOmens on
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  • CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Just... why would you deny it? What's the mentality behind that? I mean, even if it's fucked up and idiotic, there's a number of reasons why someone would want to deny the holocaust.

    Why would anyone actively deny that AIDS exists? WHY?

    It's like... what's the deal with Australia? It's out in the middle of nowhere. You hear a lot of crazy stories about that place, and obviously there are a lot of government plants out there, but... founded by convicts? Poisonous duck/beaver hybrids? Mammals that lay eggs?

    I'm not actually saying that Australia doesn't exist, but... has anyone ever really been there?

    Cherrn on
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  • DalbozDalboz Resident Puppy Eater Right behind you...Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I don't know that I could be bothered to see this movie. It sounds like Expelled, but with the added benefit of doing real immediate harm and even death like the anti-vaccination crowd. It really makes me sick just reading the subject of the film, not just the film but the fact that people out there actually believe this crap and will allow others to die because of their irrationality, if not die themselves.

    Dalboz on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, what does? Bad mojo?

    cloudeagle on
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  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, what does? Bad mojo?

    I think they claim it's all the drugs you take trying to prevent it.

    Doc on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Doc wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, what does? Bad mojo?

    I think they claim it's all the drugs you take trying to prevent it.

    And all those people who died of AIDS in the early 80s before AIDS drugs were developed caught it because....?

    cloudeagle on
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  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, what does? Bad mojo?

    I think they claim it's all the drugs you take trying to prevent it.

    And all those people who died of AIDS in the early 80s before AIDS drugs were developed caught it because....?

    I'm pretty sure the notion is that they deny that anyone has ever had AIDS

    Like, all the people who have had it all died from other shit.

    LoserForHireX on
    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, what does? Bad mojo?

    I think they claim it's all the drugs you take trying to prevent it.

    And all those people who died of AIDS in the early 80s before AIDS drugs were developed caught it because....?

    I'm pretty sure the notion is that they deny that anyone has ever had AIDS

    Like, all the people who have had it all died from other shit.

    Don'cha know? You don't die from AIDS, you live with AIDS! :x

    Cantido on
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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Elitistb wrote: »
    This trend of "My opinion is equal to the weight of established scientific consensus despite me not having any goddamn evidence to back up my position" has got to stop.

    I don't understand what motivates denialists, be they AIDS deniers, Holocaust deniers, Climate Change deniers, Creationists, etc...

    How can they believe in something so fervently when all the available evidence says that they are wrong? Creationists I can somewhat understand because they are usually indoctrinated into the belief from birth, but I don't know about the others.

    Hexmage-PA on
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  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, what does? Bad mojo?

    Ironic, given your avatar.

    GoodOmens on
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  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »

    I don't understand what motivates denialists, be they AIDS deniers, Holocaust deniers, Climate Change deniers, Creationists, etc...

    How can they believe in something so fervently when all the available evidence says that they are wrong? Creationists I can somewhat understand because they are usually indoctrinated into the belief from birth, but I don't know about the others.

    I think it's tied into the idea that seems to be coming into greater prominence lately that reality is political. It's magical thinking, basically, the idea that by believing and wanting something to be true, it is. Tie that together with the general distrust of apparent elitism (the "you think you're smarter than me" thing that so many abusive fathers in bad movies have said) and you get people who will actively distrust anything some pansy egghead says because we didn't have AIDS back in the old days and it was a simpler, better time when people cared about family and God, dammit!

    Sorry, got carried away there.

    GoodOmens on
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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    It's just insane. I mean, clearly the denialists themselves are beyond any hope or redemption at this point (there's not much hope of turning back once your own friends & family actually die of AIDS and you still deny it's existence), but I hope I can at least strangle their rhetoric. The virus is already doing more than enough damage without a heap of bullshit helping it along.

    the HI Virus is actually changing to influence people into not treating it

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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  • HavelockHavelock Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Elitistb wrote: »
    What ... the ... fuck?

    This trend of "My opinion is equal to the weight of established scientific consensus despite me not having any goddamn evidence to back up my position" has got to stop.

    If I could double-lime this, I would.

    Havelock on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So now that my brain is hurting over this clot of denialists, what was Zeitgeist: The Movie about? Denying that hamsters exist?

    cloudeagle on
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  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So now that my brain is hurting over this clot of denialists, what was Zeitgeist: The Movie about? Denying that hamsters exist?

    9-11 denialists

    Sorta like Loose Change but worse

    Rent on
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Doc wrote: »
    From the Wikipedia page:

    "In the film, Leung interviews a range of scientists and AIDS denialists, including Christine Maggiore, an HIV-positive denialist whose 3-year-old daughter died of untreated AIDS. Maggiore herself died with pneumonia and several AIDS-related infections several months before the film's release, although her death is not acknowledged in the film."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Numbers

    dot dot -fucking- dot

    Well, at least they're weeding themselves out.

    SyphonBlue on
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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Apparently that's a common thing in the denialist community!
    wiki wrote:
    For example, the magazine Continuum, which consistently denied the existence of HIV/AIDS, shut down when its editors all died of AIDS-related causes. In every case, the AIDS denialist community attributed the deaths to unknown causes, secret drug use, or stress rather than HIV/AIDS.[17][54] Similarly, several HIV-positive former dissidents have reported being ostracized by the AIDS-denialist community after they developed AIDS and decided to pursue effective antiretroviral treatment.[56]

    It would be hilarious if it weren't so depressing.

    If it weren't for the whole contagious aspect, this seems like it's a problem that will solve itself.

    Loren Michael on
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  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Elitistb wrote: »
    What ... the ... fuck?

    This trend of "My opinion is equal to the weight of established scientific consensus despite me not having any goddamn evidence to back up my position" has got to stop.

    Arch on
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Fucking signed

    If I have to hear another "global warming doesn't exist" complaint from my stepdad, who has the audacity to actually think the Civil War wasn't about slaves, I'm going to punch someone

    Rent on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Rent wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So now that my brain is hurting over this clot of denialists, what was Zeitgeist: The Movie about? Denying that hamsters exist?

    9-11 denialists

    Sorta like Loose Change but worse

    Oh, those gits. I had gotten used to ignoring them.

    cloudeagle on
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  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So I didnt see Zeitgeist. but saw alot of people saying.. OMG you have to watch this.. which immediately makes me not want to watch it unless of course it has zombies in it.

    Does Zeitgeist have zombies in it and why or why shouldnt I watch it.

    darkmayo on
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  • firewaterwordfirewaterword Satchitananda Pais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I thought this was going to be about the bar in San Francisco. It's kind of a dive, but can be lots of fun. Especially if the tamale lady is there.

    Anyway, carry on.

    firewaterword on
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  • Thor1590Thor1590 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    darkmayo wrote: »
    So I didnt see Zeitgeist. but saw alot of people saying.. OMG you have to watch this.. which immediately makes me not want to watch it unless of course it has zombies in it.

    Does Zeitgeist have zombies in it and why or why shouldnt I watch it.

    In a way, it does.

    Edit: and you should watch it for schadenfreude.

    Thor1590 on
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Vollidioten would be a more fitting title

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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  • HavelockHavelock Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Rent wrote: »
    Fucking signed

    If I have to hear another "global warming doesn't exist" complaint from my stepdad, who has the audacity to actually think the Civil War wasn't about slaves, I'm going to punch someone

    If I have to suffer another op-ed column from the George F. Will wannabe in our local paper, who thinks that because he's a lawyer and does the Car and Driver section this automatically makes him an expert on Climate Change, I'm going to write a scathing letter to the editor.

    But seriously that stuff drives me up the wall.

    Havelock on
  • martymarty Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I can do better movie editing in Windows Movie Maker and Animation in Flash than Zeitgeists editors. I rule. Zeitgeist editing has a very "90's Exercise Video" feel to it, and is just hilariously shoddy in its argument. The people who recommended it to me are the type who think they've stumbled onto some bigger "truth"; the only truth is they've wasted 90 minutes of their life.

    marty on
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  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    How many AIDS denialists are there who don't have AIDS or HIV? I'm curious because we should call them out by getting them to infect themselves.

    mrt144 on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Doc wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, what does? Bad mojo?

    I think they claim it's all the drugs you take trying to prevent it.

    This is a classic fallacy of mentally unstable people:

    "Only crazy people take pills so if I don't take pills, I'm not crazy"

    mrt144 on
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Elitistb wrote: »
    What ... the ... fuck?

    This trend of "My opinion is equal to the weight of established scientific consensus despite me not having any goddamn evidence to back up my position" has got to stop.

    And yet so many of these people are themselves Beneficial Pistol-whipping Denialists.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Cantido wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, what does? Bad mojo?

    I think they claim it's all the drugs you take trying to prevent it.

    And all those people who died of AIDS in the early 80s before AIDS drugs were developed caught it because....?

    I'm pretty sure the notion is that they deny that anyone has ever had AIDS

    Like, all the people who have had it all died from other shit.

    Don'cha know? You don't die from AIDS, you live with AIDS! :x

    I mean, it's strictly true that you don't die from AIDS, because AIDS simply fucks your immune system. You die from, you know, having a compromised immune system.

    However, this is equivalent to saying, "Guns don't kill people, the shock, trauma, and bleeding resulting from bullet wounds kill people".

    [edit] Prefacing my first statement in a conversation with "I mean" is a really fucking weird manner of speech.

    Garthor on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Garthor wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, what does? Bad mojo?

    I think they claim it's all the drugs you take trying to prevent it.

    And all those people who died of AIDS in the early 80s before AIDS drugs were developed caught it because....?

    I'm pretty sure the notion is that they deny that anyone has ever had AIDS

    Like, all the people who have had it all died from other shit.

    Don'cha know? You don't die from AIDS, you live with AIDS! :x

    I mean, it's strictly true that you don't die from AIDS, because AIDS simply fucks your immune system. You die from, you know, having a compromised immune system.

    However, this is equivalent to saying, "Guns don't kill people, the shock, trauma, and bleeding resulting from bullet wounds kill people".

    [edit] Prefacing my first statement in a conversation with "I mean" is a really fucking weird manner of speech.

    You know what is worse than "I mean": "You know what I mean" as the end of a statement. A guy on the bus kept saying it. I wanted to kill him but he was talking about being out of jail and stuff.

    mrt144 on
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