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[WoW] Good [chat], everyone!

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    PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Brainleech wrote: »
    HF?

    is it the quest where
    THe shaman has you collect some items for him so you can visit the spirit realm for a history lesson
    That would be it.

    PierceNeck on
    steam_sig.png
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    SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm interested in seeing it, but not interested enough to level an Alliance character.

    Samphis on
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    SammichSammich Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Not sure if this was brought up, but there is also the quest/scene where you destroy Arthas heart.. if you stick around, he does kick your ass lol

    Sammich on
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    jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Brainleech wrote: »
    jackal wrote: »
    I just bought dual spec for my druid because I am a failcat. I spec'ed balance. Any advice on getting a set of gear good enough for doing heroic random dungeons?

    What is your main spec?
    Just suffer with your main spec and buy the gear for your off that is what I am doing with my paladin

    My main spec is feral. The rotation is just too damn complicated for me.
    Samphis wrote: »
    The crafted ilevel 200 blues can be had for very cheap on the auction house (at least on my server). I hit 80 and bought a full set of blue gear for ~700 gold.

    You mean ilevel 187?

    jackal on
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    GnutsonGnutson Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    There are some decent rep pieces as well to fill in till you get something better.

    You don't need much really for heroics, I switched my shaman from enhance to elemental, went heroicing (with guildies mind you) and did ~2k dps in my Resto gear with 0 hit.

    Gnutson on
    Erai - Operative <--Imperial Double Agent--> Sniper - Eari
    SW:Tor - Tao - Kryatt Dragon Server
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    jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Gnutson wrote: »
    There are some decent rep pieces as well to fill in till you get something better.

    You don't need much really for heroics, I switched my shaman from enhance to elemental, went heroicing (with guildies mind you) and did ~2k dps in my Resto gear with 0 hit.

    I have enough WG marks to buy a couple of PvP pieces with a lot of hit, and I got a couple rep rewards as well. If I get a couple tailoring crafted pieces and get to the hit cap am I good to go as long as everything else has int and spell power on it?

    jackal on
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    GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The spell hit cap for heroics is 6%. That's not "a lot". Just stack spellpower.

    /edit: Also Moonkin have builtin hit anyway, right? 3% or something? I think you'd be fine without any hit on gear whatsoever.

    next edit: i looked it up and you get 4% from a talent + 3% from Imp. FF, so hit is a wasted stat for you anyway. (as long as you only do heroics and spec into those talents)

    Grobian on
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    destroyah87destroyah87 They/Them Preferred: She/Her - Please UseRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    If a moonkin is specced correctly they get 7% inherent hit.

    Balance of Power + Improved Faerie Fire (only active when Faerie Fire is on the target, so bosses only usually).

    destroyah87 on
    steam_sig.png
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    SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    jackal wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    jackal wrote: »
    I just bought dual spec for my druid because I am a failcat. I spec'ed balance. Any advice on getting a set of gear good enough for doing heroic random dungeons?

    What is your main spec?
    Just suffer with your main spec and buy the gear for your off that is what I am doing with my paladin

    My main spec is feral. The rotation is just too damn complicated for me.
    Samphis wrote: »
    The crafted ilevel 200 blues can be had for very cheap on the auction house (at least on my server). I hit 80 and bought a full set of blue gear for ~700 gold.

    You mean ilevel 187?

    Quite possibly. It's been a while since I wore it, but I know it was more than enough to get me through heroics for quite some time.

    Samphis on
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Some crafted stuff is ilevel 200, and not just epics.

    I made a bunch of level 80, ilevel 200 rare cloaks for my casters just recently. Not a huge upgrade, but they were wearing stuff around 163-187 or so, and I've been trying to shore up my gear where possible to expand the instances they can get into where possible.

    It didn't hurt that it wasn't too rough a way to earn some extra points for one of the alts' tailoring, in that the gear could be put to use and I had the materials just laying around anyway.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The "there must always be a Lich King" can be easily explained and pulled off well if Blizzard simply does one thing:

    The Uther we encountered in Halls of Reflection was actually a disguised Mal'Ganis and he was lying through his teeth.

    That could also explain why Uther is now inside Frostmourne even though we already encountered his ghost at his memorial in Western Plaguelands. Unfortunately it doesn't explain the Quel'Delar quest chain appearance, or the fact that Arthas acknowledges Uther's presence in HoR.

    I suppose they could still reveal that Uther's ghost was bent to the will of the Lich King and forced to say that as the Lich King's backup plan should he be killed. But that doesn't really fit Arthas' personality and it being Mal'Ganis would have been cooler since otherwise it seems he's another dropped plot thread from the beginning of the expansion.

    Lars on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Am I missing something? I thought Uther's speech was in ICC, I don't remember him anywhere in HoR.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    He talks in HoR if you talk to the chick and pick the first option. The second option skips it so you don't have to sit through 5 minutes of lore every time.

    If you really want to see it just hop into the instance on your own and watch it. Groups will bitch at you if you make them watch it.

    Arkan on
    Big, honkin' pile of WoW characters
    I think it's hard for someone not to rage at mario kart, while shouting "Fuck you Donkey Kong. Whose dick did you suck to get all those red shells?"
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    Grape ApeGrape Ape Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Septus wrote: »
    Am I missing something? I thought Uther's speech was in ICC, I don't remember him anywhere in HoR.

    He's in the RP intro in HoR that someone *without fail triggers every single time*

    Grape Ape on
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    jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Thanks. I forgot that the hit cap was so much lower for heroics than raids.

    jackal on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Arkan wrote: »
    He talks in HoR if you talk to the chick and pick the first option. The second option skips it so you don't have to sit through 5 minutes of lore every time.

    If you really want to see it just hop into the instance on your own and watch it. Groups will bitch at you if you make them watch it.

    Shit, bunch of losers making me unaware of this piece of lore. My first time in there wasn't even long after the release.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Whoops wrong thread....

    I didn't know there was the sequence in HoR i'll have to check it out. There is also one in ToC that is cool to see once then like CoS is a complete pain in the ass every other time.

    The Cow King on
    icGJy2C.png
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2010
    The problem with Arthas appearing everywhere is that he doesn't do shit. He SHOULD be kicking your ass, but instead he just waltzes off. On the one hand, it makes sense if you consider him on the lookour for new champions. But do it too much and he looks incompetent.

    Deathwing needs to be a badass. He should be the Fel Reaver of a zone, only invincible: flying around and roasting any asshole that thinks they can hang with him. If he shows up, he needs to actively fuck up whatever you are trying to do. He should appear as an obstacle, not an angry fist shaking at you.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Lars wrote: »
    The "there must always be a Lich King" can be easily explained and pulled off well if Blizzard simply does one thing:

    The Uther we encountered in Halls of Reflection was actually a disguised Mal'Ganis and he was lying through his teeth.

    That could also explain why Uther is now inside Frostmourne even though we already encountered his ghost at his memorial in Western Plaguelands. Unfortunately it doesn't explain the Quel'Delar quest chain appearance, or the fact that Arthas acknowledges Uther's presence in HoR.

    I suppose they could still reveal that Uther's ghost was bent to the will of the Lich King and forced to say that as the Lich King's backup plan should he be killed. But that doesn't really fit Arthas' personality and it being Mal'Ganis would have been cooler since otherwise it seems he's another dropped plot thread from the beginning of the expansion.

    I really don't see why everyone is overthinking this.

    Good lord it's pretty simple.

    Arthas dosen't really want to destroy all life. The only thing he actually ever wanted was to save Loderon, which he kinda failed at when he got the Frostmorne.

    Basically, everything he's been doing until this point is make a big, gigantic target.

    He attacked the Stormwind and Ogrimmar, even though they really had no real chance of taking it, to provoke the horde and alliance into action.

    Hell, in the DK starting area he simply decides to land and fuck up the Scarlet Crusade for some unknown reason. And of course walks up to the one place where the Light is at Nuclear levels in order to somehow kill Tirion THE motherfucking Fordring? Oh, and of course handing him the Ashbringer, and Mograine, and a handful of hilariously powerful Death Knights, in the process.

    Lets not forget letting the PC live countless times, while also killing his only general actually doing anything(Drakuru).

    Basically, he's been passivly setting up his own demise. It's the only thing that explains his absolute stupidity, considering the forces at his command could easily overwhelm all of Azaroth.

    Instead, he basically waited till he could get his shit fucked up.

    Uther saying that the undead needs a Lich King makes sense, otherwise, they would devolve into their basic instinct, devour life. A giant, unorganized swarm of locusts that grows every time it kills anything?. Yeah, that wouldn't take too long at all.

    So, it's silly, but it makes sense. I mean, the only other possibility that could have happend when Arthas first united with Ner'zhul is Warcraft 4. But WoW makes lots of money, and the Lich King had to be addressed otherwise their lorekeepers wouldn have been driven insane. So we get this.

    Transporter on
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    mturalonmturalon Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    tanking question tossed in here.

    I'm hearing/reading things about an armor trinket and using that + the Corroded Key/Black Heart as better than dual sta trinkets? Which armor trinket is that and why is that pushing out the straight sta?

    mturalon on
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    ExistentialSoundandFuryExistentialSoundandFury Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I would assume its the Triumph trinket, though there is an improved version of the trinket available in ICC.

    I believe its primarily because ICC has seen a large drop in large magical blasts in lieu of steadier, ye still significant, physical hits.

    ExistentialSoundandFury on
    399831.jpg
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    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Of course the hole in the "no Lich King = undead kill everything" statement is that the Undead can't raise more Undead by themselves - the Plague of Undeath isn't spread by the Undead themselves, but by the Cult of the Damned and the Lich King, and even that only raises people as mindless ghouls and not advanced Undead like Liches.

    The example of the Forsaken and the Knights of the Ebon Blade shows that, in the absence of the Lich King's control, undead will regain self-consciousness and control. That implies that when the Lich King dies, all remaining undead Scourge, who did not join of their free will, will became the equivalent of the Forsaken (freed undead). It doesn't seem likely that Azeroth would be destroyed by such an event.

    What I think is that Frostmourne was lying through Uther's Ghost. It is seeking to perpetuate itself beyond the Lich King's death.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2010
    The victorious villain of Warcraft 3, main villain of Wrath and the biggest lore focus of anything in WoW so far has been acting like a dope on purpose.
    That is some good writing, I tell you what.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
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    mturalonmturalon Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I would assume its the Triumph trinket, though there is an improved version of the trinket available in ICC.

    I believe its primarily because ICC has seen a large drop in large magical blasts in lieu of steadier, ye still significant, physical hits.

    that's the armor one with the dodge on use right? That's what I was thinking, but I had our DK argue that its useless.

    mturalon on
  • Options
    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    mturalon wrote: »
    I would assume its the Triumph trinket, though there is an improved version of the trinket available in ICC.

    I believe its primarily because ICC has seen a large drop in large magical blasts in lieu of steadier, ye still significant, physical hits.

    that's the armor one with the dodge on use right? That's what I was thinking, but I had our DK argue that its useless.

    You should go over threads like this:

    http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t45411-finalizing_prot_warrior_design/

    That way when that silly goose of a DK of yours says silly things, you know what the latest theorycrafting as come up with.

    +Armor is the new in thing for tanks in ICC.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I really don't see why everyone is overthinking this.

    Good lord it's pretty simple.

    Arthas dosen't really want to destroy all life. The only thing he actually ever wanted was to save Loderon, which he kinda failed at when he got the Frostmorne.

    Basically, everything he's been doing until this point is make a big, gigantic target.

    He attacked the Stormwind and Ogrimmar, even though they really had no real chance of taking it, to provoke the horde and alliance into action.

    Hell, in the DK starting area he simply decides to land and fuck up the Scarlet Crusade for some unknown reason. And of course walks up to the one place where the Light is at Nuclear levels in order to somehow kill Tirion THE motherfucking Fordring? Oh, and of course handing him the Ashbringer, and Mograine, and a handful of hilariously powerful Death Knights, in the process.

    Lets not forget letting the PC live countless times, while also killing his only general actually doing anything(Drakuru).

    Basically, he's been passivly setting up his own demise. It's the only thing that explains his absolute stupidity, considering the forces at his command could easily overwhelm all of Azaroth.

    Instead, he basically waited till he could get his shit fucked up.

    Uther saying that the undead needs a Lich King makes sense, otherwise, they would devolve into their basic instinct, devour life. A giant, unorganized swarm of locusts that grows every time it kills anything?. Yeah, that wouldn't take too long at all.

    So, it's silly, but it makes sense. I mean, the only other possibility that could have happend when Arthas first united with Ner'zhul is Warcraft 4. But WoW makes lots of money, and the Lich King had to be addressed otherwise their lorekeepers wouldn have been driven insane. So we get this.

    That would be a pretty cool explanation for the whole thing.


    I always loved Anub'arak's last line in Azol'Nerub. "I never though I'd be free of him". It really gave some depth to him. He wasn't just generic bad guy.

    shryke on
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    DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jephery wrote: »
    That implies that when the Lich King dies, all remaining undead Scourge, who did not join of their free will, will became the equivalent of the Forsaken (freed undead). It doesn't seem likely that Azeroth would be destroyed by such an event.

    Unless the Forsaken got it into their heads to destroy all life on Azeroth for their own reasons. Which we would never do.

    Decomposey on
    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
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    mturalonmturalon Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jephery wrote: »
    mturalon wrote: »
    I would assume its the Triumph trinket, though there is an improved version of the trinket available in ICC.

    I believe its primarily because ICC has seen a large drop in large magical blasts in lieu of steadier, ye still significant, physical hits.

    that's the armor one with the dodge on use right? That's what I was thinking, but I had our DK argue that its useless.

    You should go over threads like this:

    http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t45411-finalizing_prot_warrior_design/

    That way when that silly goose of a DK of yours says silly things, you know what the latest theorycrafting as come up with.

    +Armor is the new in thing for tanks in ICC.

    Thanks for the link. yeah i usually look there and at maintankadin for this kind of thing. I had read something on there about it and figured that was the new cats meow. Sometimes I don't know why I bother with him though, he still tanks using 3.0 standards.

    mturalon on
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    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Decomposey wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    That implies that when the Lich King dies, all remaining undead Scourge, who did not join of their free will, will became the equivalent of the Forsaken (freed undead). It doesn't seem likely that Azeroth would be destroyed by such an event.

    Unless the Forsaken got it into their heads to destroy all life on Azeroth for their own reasons. Which we would never do.

    Ok, yeah now I see how it turns out bad.

    Mindless horde of millions of undead that wants to kill all living things suddenly become a horde of intelligent undead that wants to kill all living things. They can start organizing, and using technology.

    Could you imagine beating a Left 4 Dead map where every single zombie is played by a player and can use guns and stuff? No way.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    What's funny to me is that the Lich King actually works better for the "he sits in his castle and you never see him" thing. Since he communicates to his minion's through telepathy. But instead, he's out and about. Seein the sights.

    And he does kill you at least once, if you're not paying attention. In HF.

    He also doesn't leave ICC much because of the link between the Frozen Throne and Frostmourne. In WC3: TFT, when Frostmourne was kept away from ICC for too long, Ner'zhul had his power diminished.

    Bikkstah on
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jephery wrote: »
    mturalon wrote: »
    I would assume its the Triumph trinket, though there is an improved version of the trinket available in ICC.

    I believe its primarily because ICC has seen a large drop in large magical blasts in lieu of steadier, ye still significant, physical hits.

    that's the armor one with the dodge on use right? That's what I was thinking, but I had our DK argue that its useless.

    You should go over threads like this:

    http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t45411-finalizing_prot_warrior_design/

    That way when that silly goose of a DK of yours says silly things, you know what the latest theorycrafting as come up with.

    +Armor is the new in thing for tanks in ICC.

    Unless you're a bear.

    Bikkstah on
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    PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    But is that because it was away from Ice Crown, or because it was away from Ner'zhul? I thought it was linked to Ner'zhul. Not the frozen throne. (the frozen throne doesn't actually exist anymore, since Arthas had to break it to merge with Ner'zhul)

    PierceNeck on
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    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Bikkstah wrote: »
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    What's funny to me is that the Lich King actually works better for the "he sits in his castle and you never see him" thing. Since he communicates to his minion's through telepathy. But instead, he's out and about. Seein the sights.

    And he does kill you at least once, if you're not paying attention. In HF.

    He also doesn't leave ICC much because of the link between the Frozen Throne and Frostmourne. In WC3: TFT, when Frostmourne was kept away from ICC for too long, Ner'zhul had his power diminished.

    The reason why the Lich King was weakening in TFT was because his soul was seeping out the crack left where Frostmourne used to be before he thrust it out of the Frozen Throne.

    The reason why the Lich King doesn't go out of the way to kill the player is because hes building up the player's power for when he eventually does turn him. Thats why he says "This one is not ready" when he sees in you HF - he wants you to hit level 80 and get geared so that you're super powerful when you do serve him.

    ICC is the final test for his new champions.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    NATIKNATIK DenmarkRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Wasn't the problem that Ner'zhul made a small hole in Ner'zhuls prison atop the Frozen Throne when he ejected Frostmourne and through that hole his power was leaking out?

    When Arthas shattered Ner'zhuls prison and put on Ner'zhuls helmet he mended that leak.

    EDIT: Beaten.

    NATIK on
    steam_sig.png
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    ExistentialSoundandFuryExistentialSoundandFury Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jephery wrote: »

    The reason why the Lich King was weakening in TFT was because his soul was seeping out the crack left where Frostmourne used to be before he thrust it out of the Frozen Throne.

    Actually it was a combination of things. Illidan was causing earthquakes to damage the Frozen Throne, and a significant crack caused the energy to begin fading. Additionally a piece of the Lich King's power, Frostmourne, was out of reach and it was difficult for the Lich King to keep channeling power through it.

    Frostmourne was not embedded in the Frozen Throne.

    ExistentialSoundandFury on
    399831.jpg
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    SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jephery wrote: »
    Bikkstah wrote: »
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    What's funny to me is that the Lich King actually works better for the "he sits in his castle and you never see him" thing. Since he communicates to his minion's through telepathy. But instead, he's out and about. Seein the sights.

    And he does kill you at least once, if you're not paying attention. In HF.

    He also doesn't leave ICC much because of the link between the Frozen Throne and Frostmourne. In WC3: TFT, when Frostmourne was kept away from ICC for too long, Ner'zhul had his power diminished.

    The reason why the Lich King was weakening in TFT was because his soul was seeping out the crack left where Frostmourne used to be before he thrust it out of the Frozen Throne.

    The reason why the Lich King doesn't go out of the way to kill the player is because hes building up the player's power for when he eventually does turn him. Thats why he says "This one is not ready" when he sees in you HF - he wants you to hit level 80 and get geared so that you're super powerful when you do serve him.

    ICC is the final test for his new champions.

    It would be awesome if you could say, choose to serve him, get some crazy-ass buffs for 2 hours and be PVP-flagged for everyone. You could go out and actually serve him by slaying his enemies (the other players). Then at the end of the two hours, (or if you are killed first) have some lore event "redeem" you.

    Samphis on
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    BikkstahBikkstah Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ner'zhul's Plan to Escape
    Ner'zhul was not content with being a pawn for the Burning Legion, however, and began working on a plan for escape. The first stage of his plan was set in motion when he used his powers to push Frostmourne through the ice and out of the Frozen Throne, and plunge it into the snows of Northrend to await one who would claim it and become the Lich King's agent. Ner'zhul found his agent in Arthas Menethil, the young prince of Lordaeron who had come to Northrend in a quest to end the plague.

    Bikkstah on
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    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jephery wrote: »

    The reason why the Lich King was weakening in TFT was because his soul was seeping out the crack left where Frostmourne used to be before he thrust it out of the Frozen Throne.

    Actually it was a combination of things. Illidan was causing earthquakes to damage the Frozen Throne, and a significant crack caused the energy to begin fading. Additionally a piece of the Lich King's power, Frostmourne, was out of reach and it was difficult for the Lich King to keep channeling power through it.

    Frostmourne was not embedded in the Frozen Throne.

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Frostmourne - it was originally embedded in the throne, along with the Armor.

    But you're right in that Illidan's earthquakes exacerbated the crack and widened it.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Bikkstah wrote: »
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    What's funny to me is that the Lich King actually works better for the "he sits in his castle and you never see him" thing. Since he communicates to his minion's through telepathy. But instead, he's out and about. Seein the sights.

    And he does kill you at least once, if you're not paying attention. In HF.

    He also doesn't leave ICC much because of the link between the Frozen Throne and Frostmourne. In WC3: TFT, when Frostmourne was kept away from ICC for too long, Ner'zhul had his power diminished.

    He'll also kill you in icecrown cathedral if you don't click the portal in time. But his "omega death spell" takes like 10 seconds to cast.

    dojango on
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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Like I said before, the number one thing Arthas has fucked up on is treating the Scourge like an army. He was classically trained in combat, it's all he knows how to do, but if he just unleashed the full might of the Scourge rather than wasting energy trying to keep them organized, he'd have already won. Without the Lich King, the Liches and Necromancers and whatnot are free to do whatever they want, and if whatever they want is to destroy whatever's in their way then that's what they're going to do. A Scourge without the Lich King loses the military predictability it currently has, making it more of a threat. It's basically going from Revolutionary War Redcoats to Gulf War Insergents.

    Opty on
This discussion has been closed.