GOP lawmakers pressed the president to pledge to support a line-item veto for spending bills and across-the-board tax cuts.
I have to give whoever those Republicans were some "classy" points. Offering a line-item veto when the Democrats have the Presidency is principled.
Why do people keep coming back to the line item veto when it was ruled Unconstitutional?
See: flagburning. Hell, congresscritters are still trying to get a flag burning amendment passed.
During each term of Congress from 1995 to 2005, the proposed amendment was passed by the House of Representatives, but not the Senate, falling four votes short on two occasions in the upper body. As approved by the House of Representatives each time, the joint resolutions called for ratification by state legislatures—of which a minimum of 38 state legislative approvals would be required (three-fourths of the 50 states) within a period of seven years following its proposal by both houses of Congress. As can be seen by the votes in the House of Representatives, support for the amendment appears to be slipping with only 286 "yes" votes during the 109th Congress in 2005 in contrast to the 312 "yes" votes a decade earlier during the 104th.
Obama also returned to his point of how the polls have shown that individual stimulus components are popular, but not the total plan itself -- pointing out directly how this relates to GOP members of Congress. "As I said a lot of you have gone to ribbon cuttings for the same projects that you voted against," said Obama. "I say all this not to re-litigate the past, but it's simply to state, the component parts of the recovery act are consistent with what many of you say are important things to do."
"I am not an ideologue. I'm not," Obama also said."It doesn't make sense if somebody could tell me you could do this cheaper and get increased results, that I wouldn't say 'great.' The problem is, I couldn't find credible economists that would back up the claims that you just made."
GOP lawmakers pressed the president to pledge to support a line-item veto for spending bills and across-the-board tax cuts.
I have to give whoever those Republicans were some "classy" points. Offering a line-item veto when the Democrats have the Presidency is principled.
Why do people keep coming back to the line item veto when it was ruled Unconstitutional?
Because (and I just saw this on the video), the way it was phrased was that the proposal was a Constitutional amendment. Bipartisan between some Republican and Russ Feingold.
Well then I look forward to the 28th Amendment getting ratified by the states in 2080 or so. I mean, it took us around 200 years to ratify the 27th.
Obama also returned to his point of how the polls have shown that individual stimulus components are popular, but not the total plan itself -- pointing out directly how this relates to GOP members of Congress. "As I said a lot of you have gone to ribbon cuttings for the same projects that you voted against," said Obama. "I say all this not to re-litigate the past, but it's simply to state, the component parts of the recovery act are consistent with what many of you say are important things to do."
"I am not an ideologue. I'm not," Obama also said."It doesn't make sense if somebody could tell me you could do this cheaper and get increased results, that I wouldn't say 'great.' The problem is, I couldn't find credible economists that would back up the claims that you just made."
GOP lawmakers pressed the president to pledge to support a line-item veto for spending bills and across-the-board tax cuts.
I have to give whoever those Republicans were some "classy" points. Offering a line-item veto when the Democrats have the Presidency is principled.
Why do people keep coming back to the line item veto when it was ruled Unconstitutional?
Because (and I just saw this on the video), the way it was phrased was that the proposal was a Constitutional amendment. Bipartisan between some Republican and Russ Feingold.
Well then I look forward to the 28th Amendment getting ratified by the states in 2080 or so. I mean, it took us around 200 years to ratify the 27th.
Yeah, not holding my breath on it actually happening without some serious checks and balances on it.
I think Obama finally realized it's time to stop being nice and take the gloves off.
yes, now that he is saying some snarky things to republicans he will surely change his impotent approach to policymaking
jesus christ, how many times does this song and dance have to go on
Before... what? We light Obama on fire?
before you admit america is screwed and lose hope forever and ever and ever
i mean, preferably
that's just the most likely outcome that doesn't involve fire
So... what, Rust? You'd prefer we all just quiver under our beds and wait to die or something? I mean, fuck, you're even more spineless than Congress right now. You've gone completely into the goddamn fetal position and stopped even trying to get the America you want. Get a fucking backbone.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
I think Obama finally realized it's time to stop being nice and take the gloves off.
yes, now that he is saying some snarky things to republicans he will surely change his impotent approach to policymaking
jesus christ, how many times does this song and dance have to go on
Before... what? We light Obama on fire?
before you admit america is screwed and lose hope forever and ever and ever
i mean, preferably
that's just the most likely outcome that doesn't involve fire
So... what, Rust? You'd prefer we all just quiver under our beds and wait to die or something? I mean, fuck, you're even more spineless than Congress right now. You've gone completely into the goddamn fetal position and stopped even trying to get the America you want. Get a fucking backbone.
yeah, no
you in particular kind of creep me out because your posts seem to have been entirely swallowed up by election-era talking points
if that's the world you want to live in, fine, but i'd prefer to stay in the real one rather than one that lasted for a few fun months circa mid-2008
I propose a new forum rule...instead of curse words being replaced with "silly goose," all Rust posts are replaced with "ALL IS LOST"
Yougottawanna on
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Rust, I live in a world where if you want a better life for yourself, you have to fight for it. Nobody's going to hand it to you. Giving up and being hopeless forever and ever is a self-fulfilling prophecy: people are going to figure out they CAN walk all over you, and therefore people WILL walk all over you, causing you to get more and more depressed and hopeless. It's not a spiral you want to go down.
Right now there's rhetoric going in your direction. It's not going to turn into action if you just let it sit there. Obama puts up a proposal and all he gets is yawns and 'oh it's hopeless', that proposal is doomed. Obama puts up a proposal and he gets cheers, it's got at least a shot. It has to get through a Republican gauntlet, yes, but you at least give it the chance to have that fight.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Rust, I live in a world where if you want a better life for yourself, you have to fight for it. Nobody's going to hand it to you. Giving up and being hopeless forever and ever is a self-fulfilling prophecy: people are going to figure out they CAN walk all over you, and therefore people WILL walk all over you, causing you to get more and more depressed and hopeless. It's not a spiral you want to go down.
Right now there's rhetoric going in your direction. It's not going to turn into action if you just let it sit there. Obama puts up a proposal and all he gets is yawns and 'oh it's hopeless', that proposal is doomed. Obama puts up a proposal and he gets cheers, it's got at least a shot. It has to get through a Republican gauntlet, yes, but you at least give it the chance to have that fight.
yeah, see, it's crap like this
to me thisreads like someone with little knowledge of human speech tried to string together some vaguely feel-good inspirational nonsense without context or consideration, and it is intensely unsettling
you've sunk so deep into that mindset that i doubt you'll have much luck communicating with people who aren't already in it, and especially not with me
because as far as i'm concerned, everything involving the political landscape in this country is only worth watching so as to get a grasp on why people's lives are slightly worse today than they were yesterday
Man he should have gone for the coup de grace on that one. "And lets be honest even if I put a budget all of you would like, you'd still vote no on it, so why should I even bother?"
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Rust, I live in a world where if you want a better life for yourself, you have to fight for it. Nobody's going to hand it to you. Giving up and being hopeless forever and ever is a self-fulfilling prophecy: people are going to figure out they CAN walk all over you, and therefore people WILL walk all over you, causing you to get more and more depressed and hopeless. It's not a spiral you want to go down.
Right now there's rhetoric going in your direction. It's not going to turn into action if you just let it sit there. Obama puts up a proposal and all he gets is yawns and 'oh it's hopeless', that proposal is doomed. Obama puts up a proposal and he gets cheers, it's got at least a shot. It has to get through a Republican gauntlet, yes, but you at least give it the chance to have that fight.
yeah, see, it's crap like this
to me thisreads like someone with little knowledge of human speech tried to string together some vaguely feel-good inspirational nonsense without context or consideration, and it is intensely unsettling
you've sunk so deep into that mindset that i doubt you'll have much luck communicating with people who aren't already in it, and especially not with me
because as far as i'm concerned, everything involving the political landscape in this country is only worth watching so as to get a grasp on why people's lives are slightly worse today than they were yesterday
Similarly, that girl dumped me junior year of high school so I'm going to listen to Dashboard Confessional and stay in my room the rest of my life.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Reading that transcript just gave me a huge -on for Obama.
I don't even care if it doesn't work and the Republicans continue to do the same shit. It is just refreshing to have someone intelligent and intellectually honest in the white house.
Edit: it's interesting how much reading that exchange reminds me of message board discussions ... with idiots. But the good thing is that the idiots rarely come off looking half as good as they expect to. I do believe the Republicans just underestimated Obama and I wonder if they'll agree to televise this thing in the future. I'm guessing not.
Qingu on
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Oh, not just politics. Life in general. I have to fight to try to get out of Walmart hell. I have to fight to try and get a book published. I have to fight to try to get a news article published. None of these things have happened yet, but they still could. But none of them will if I fetal up and go all is lost all day long.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Reading that transcript just gave me a huge -on for Obama.
I don't even care if it doesn't work and the Republicans continue to do the same shit. It is just refreshing to have someone intelligent and intellectually honest in the white house.
Edit: it's interesting how much reading that exchange reminds me of message board discussions ... with idiots. But the good thing is that the idiots rarely come off looking half as good as they expect to. I do believe the Republicans just underestimated Obama and I wonder if they'll agree to televise this thing in the future. I'm guessing not.
Pandering to their base?
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Rust, I live in a world where if you want a better life for yourself, you have to fight for it. Nobody's going to hand it to you. Giving up and being hopeless forever and ever is a self-fulfilling prophecy: people are going to figure out they CAN walk all over you, and therefore people WILL walk all over you, causing you to get more and more depressed and hopeless. It's not a spiral you want to go down.
Right now there's rhetoric going in your direction. It's not going to turn into action if you just let it sit there. Obama puts up a proposal and all he gets is yawns and 'oh it's hopeless', that proposal is doomed. Obama puts up a proposal and he gets cheers, it's got at least a shot. It has to get through a Republican gauntlet, yes, but you at least give it the chance to have that fight.
yeah, see, it's crap like this
to me thisreads like someone with little knowledge of human speech tried to string together some vaguely feel-good inspirational nonsense without context or consideration, and it is intensely unsettling
you've sunk so deep into that mindset that i doubt you'll have much luck communicating with people who aren't already in it, and especially not with me
because as far as i'm concerned, everything involving the political landscape in this country is only worth watching so as to get a grasp on why people's lives are slightly worse today than they were yesterday
Rust, I live in a world where if you want a better life for yourself, you have to fight for it. Nobody's going to hand it to you. Giving up and being hopeless forever and ever is a self-fulfilling prophecy: people are going to figure out they CAN walk all over you, and therefore people WILL walk all over you, causing you to get more and more depressed and hopeless. It's not a spiral you want to go down.
Right now there's rhetoric going in your direction. It's not going to turn into action if you just let it sit there. Obama puts up a proposal and all he gets is yawns and 'oh it's hopeless', that proposal is doomed. Obama puts up a proposal and he gets cheers, it's got at least a shot. It has to get through a Republican gauntlet, yes, but you at least give it the chance to have that fight.
yeah, see, it's crap like this
to me thisreads like someone with little knowledge of human speech tried to string together some vaguely feel-good inspirational nonsense without context or consideration, and it is intensely unsettling
you've sunk so deep into that mindset that i doubt you'll have much luck communicating with people who aren't already in it, and especially not with me
because as far as i'm concerned, everything involving the political landscape in this country is only worth watching so as to get a grasp on why people's lives are slightly worse today than they were yesterday
I don't really get it then
what are you doing here? Why read or talk about politics with anyone?
Also, frankly, as annoyed as I get sometimes, I'm living in a country that is markedly nicer to be in than the one that existed in the past. I'd rather be here and now than in the 90's, 80's, whatever. A lot of that is societal change only moderately related to politics buy hey my gay friends aren't getting murdered for fun as often anymore and my girlfriend can get a credit card so that's kind of nice.
Rust, I live in a world where if you want a better life for yourself, you have to fight for it. Nobody's going to hand it to you. Giving up and being hopeless forever and ever is a self-fulfilling prophecy: people are going to figure out they CAN walk all over you, and therefore people WILL walk all over you, causing you to get more and more depressed and hopeless. It's not a spiral you want to go down.
Right now there's rhetoric going in your direction. It's not going to turn into action if you just let it sit there. Obama puts up a proposal and all he gets is yawns and 'oh it's hopeless', that proposal is doomed. Obama puts up a proposal and he gets cheers, it's got at least a shot. It has to get through a Republican gauntlet, yes, but you at least give it the chance to have that fight.
yeah, see, it's crap like this
to me thisreads like someone with little knowledge of human speech tried to string together some vaguely feel-good inspirational nonsense without context or consideration, and it is intensely unsettling
you've sunk so deep into that mindset that i doubt you'll have much luck communicating with people who aren't already in it, and especially not with me
because as far as i'm concerned, everything involving the political landscape in this country is only worth watching so as to get a grasp on why people's lives are slightly worse today than they were yesterday
I don't really get it then
what are you doing here? Why read or talk about politics with anyone?
To look down on you and tell you what a silly goose you are for having any shred of optimism.
Democrats kind of suck at educating the public. 26% of Americans know you need 60 votes in the Senate.
Forcing a filibuster would let the news narrative actually inform americans about this
Unfortunately the rules, IIRC, don't even allow "forcing" a filibuster anymore.
And if we're changing the rules, then obviously we should just get rid of the filibuster.
I did the math the other day, and 40 Senators can represent as few as 10% of US Citizens. Fun fact.
I was just playing with a spreadsheet on it. Took the 2009 estimated populations of all the states from Wikipedia. If there was a split of Democrat and Republican senator, I took half the population of the state. These are also pre-Scott Brown.
40% of sitting Republican US senators represent 33% of US citizens.
In that sense of using numbers anyway.
We all know the 40% of sitting republican senators actually represent whatever percentage of the population that wants them to be obstructionist and vote against every single thing that Congress tries to accomplish.
Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
Rust, I live in a world where if you want a better life for yourself, you have to fight for it. Nobody's going to hand it to you. Giving up and being hopeless forever and ever is a self-fulfilling prophecy: people are going to figure out they CAN walk all over you, and therefore people WILL walk all over you, causing you to get more and more depressed and hopeless. It's not a spiral you want to go down.
Right now there's rhetoric going in your direction. It's not going to turn into action if you just let it sit there. Obama puts up a proposal and all he gets is yawns and 'oh it's hopeless', that proposal is doomed. Obama puts up a proposal and he gets cheers, it's got at least a shot. It has to get through a Republican gauntlet, yes, but you at least give it the chance to have that fight.
yeah, see, it's crap like this
to me thisreads like someone with little knowledge of human speech tried to string together some vaguely feel-good inspirational nonsense without context or consideration, and it is intensely unsettling
you've sunk so deep into that mindset that i doubt you'll have much luck communicating with people who aren't already in it, and especially not with me
because as far as i'm concerned, everything involving the political landscape in this country is only worth watching so as to get a grasp on why people's lives are slightly worse today than they were yesterday
I know right? God forbid anyone have any optimism and hope and try to better our country. Better to all be cynical [strike]douchebags[/strike] silly gooses who do nothing but complain and bitch at the people who do try. That's how we'll change things for the better! I, for one, welcome our cynical [strike]douchebag[/strike] silly goose overlords.
As noted in two rec list diaries by bernardpliers and D Wreck (update: and Julie Gulden), President Obama today spent 90 minutes taking questions from the House GOP Conference in Baltimore, Maryland.
The bad news for the GOP is that President Obama not only took their tough questions, but he answered them -- and he was tough, forcing the GOP to confront the facts instead of their make-believe Fox News reality. In fact, to get a sense of just how effective President Obama was, Fox "News" cut off the Q&A session before it ended (CNN and MSNBC both carried the full event live).
I think Rust has a valid point, although I disagree about how extreme he posits it. I don't think he's honestly saying fuck optimism, he's saying have a practical idea about the limitations of rhetoric and the reality of the situation at hand.
To be honest much like us Watching Hannity to build up our bile, thats why they ran it, to remind people why they hate the man. Also then they can say "Well we ran his whole SOTU we could have just had Glenn Beck in black face doing his version! See Fair and Balanced."
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Posts
See: flagburning. Hell, congresscritters are still trying to get a flag burning amendment passed.
Where did you get the quoted part?
Well then I look forward to the 28th Amendment getting ratified by the states in 2080 or so. I mean, it took us around 200 years to ratify the 27th.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/obama-does-question-time-with-the-house-gop.php?ref=fpb
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Before... what? We light Obama on fire?
Yeah, not holding my breath on it actually happening without some serious checks and balances on it.
before you admit america is screwed and lose hope forever and ever and ever
i mean, preferably
that's just the most likely outcome that doesn't involve fire
Yeah that sounds pretty good. Let's do that.
Gotta do something to kill time before Ragnarok.
Forcing a filibuster would let the news narrative actually inform americans about this
I'm sure there'd be a much more pressing and important celebrity sex scandal or missing white girl that needs round the clock coverage.
sounds too foreign
So... what, Rust? You'd prefer we all just quiver under our beds and wait to die or something? I mean, fuck, you're even more spineless than Congress right now. You've gone completely into the goddamn fetal position and stopped even trying to get the America you want. Get a fucking backbone.
EDIT: Found one
Unfortunately the rules, IIRC, don't even allow "forcing" a filibuster anymore.
And if we're changing the rules, then obviously we should just get rid of the filibuster.
I did the math the other day, and 40 Senators can represent as few as 10% of US Citizens. Fun fact.
yeah, no
you in particular kind of creep me out because your posts seem to have been entirely swallowed up by election-era talking points
if that's the world you want to live in, fine, but i'd prefer to stay in the real one rather than one that lasted for a few fun months circa mid-2008
Plus the one Senator from Iowa to kill bills. I did this math too back in the Senate sucks thread.
Right now there's rhetoric going in your direction. It's not going to turn into action if you just let it sit there. Obama puts up a proposal and all he gets is yawns and 'oh it's hopeless', that proposal is doomed. Obama puts up a proposal and he gets cheers, it's got at least a shot. It has to get through a Republican gauntlet, yes, but you at least give it the chance to have that fight.
excuse me, but that would eliminate a lot of nuance about precisely how lost all is at any given time
hah
yeah, see, it's crap like this
to me thisreads like someone with little knowledge of human speech tried to string together some vaguely feel-good inspirational nonsense without context or consideration, and it is intensely unsettling
you've sunk so deep into that mindset that i doubt you'll have much luck communicating with people who aren't already in it, and especially not with me
because as far as i'm concerned, everything involving the political landscape in this country is only worth watching so as to get a grasp on why people's lives are slightly worse today than they were yesterday
pleasepaypreacher.net
Similarly, that girl dumped me junior year of high school so I'm going to listen to Dashboard Confessional and stay in my room the rest of my life.
I don't even care if it doesn't work and the Republicans continue to do the same shit. It is just refreshing to have someone intelligent and intellectually honest in the white house.
Edit: it's interesting how much reading that exchange reminds me of message board discussions ... with idiots. But the good thing is that the idiots rarely come off looking half as good as they expect to. I do believe the Republicans just underestimated Obama and I wonder if they'll agree to televise this thing in the future. I'm guessing not.
Pandering to their base?
pleasepaypreacher.net
You should totally start cutting yourself.
That'll show your paren.... I mean Obama!!
I don't really get it then
what are you doing here? Why read or talk about politics with anyone?
Also, frankly, as annoyed as I get sometimes, I'm living in a country that is markedly nicer to be in than the one that existed in the past. I'd rather be here and now than in the 90's, 80's, whatever. A lot of that is societal change only moderately related to politics buy hey my gay friends aren't getting murdered for fun as often anymore and my girlfriend can get a credit card so that's kind of nice.
To look down on you and tell you what a silly goose you are for having any shred of optimism.
I was just playing with a spreadsheet on it. Took the 2009 estimated populations of all the states from Wikipedia. If there was a split of Democrat and Republican senator, I took half the population of the state. These are also pre-Scott Brown.
40% of sitting Republican US senators represent 33% of US citizens.
In that sense of using numbers anyway.
We all know the 40% of sitting republican senators actually represent whatever percentage of the population that wants them to be obstructionist and vote against every single thing that Congress tries to accomplish.
"Mr President the constitution sucks, can we just get rid of it?"
I know right? God forbid anyone have any optimism and hope and try to better our country. Better to all be cynical [strike]douchebags[/strike] silly gooses who do nothing but complain and bitch at the people who do try. That's how we'll change things for the better! I, for one, welcome our cynical [strike]douchebag[/strike] silly goose overlords.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
pleasepaypreacher.net
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
To be honest much like us Watching Hannity to build up our bile, thats why they ran it, to remind people why they hate the man. Also then they can say "Well we ran his whole SOTU we could have just had Glenn Beck in black face doing his version! See Fair and Balanced."
pleasepaypreacher.net