Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
edited April 2007
I basically knew about him because some racist Republican dude I worked with would constantly talk about how Imus was so smart and funny and stuck it to the man and was also such a good guy because he ran a camp for kids but he made them mend fences and shit to make real men out of them.
Words never said about someone who wasn't a dipshit: "If you just knew him."
Sigged so hard. :^:
Props to celery, Elk, and Aethelred for the unassailable counters to scottman and Zephyr's ungodly amount of stupid.
Scottman, no one gives a shit if your three black friends were laughing hysterically at your "jive talk". Their opinions don't somehow represent for every black person. Their opinions certainly don't make it inoffensive and non-racist. I'm fucking tired of hearing white people use that excuse for their little racist shit. Just because your black friend lets you call him the N word doesn't mean it's all good to say it to any black person you meet, nor does it mean that I'm wrong for being offended. That jive talk bullshit is offensive and it makes you a racist in my book.
Look, defending Imus is your opinion, and I think you're completely wrong in your reasoning, and probably a little willfully ignorant, but hey that's what opinions are all about.
Defending Imus and capping your position with a little jive talk is just idiotic. I know you're still in High School, but maybe I could beg your indulgence as to how someone might infer from the two statements in conjunction that you really are a racist?
I could indeed see how that could arise and I thank you for your ability to form meaningful retort. I just believe that we as a society should be able to speek in dialects foreign to the norm as an attempted at humor, with openness and a loving heart towards the people it is birthed from.
Do you really think that people should be able to say whatever they want, whenever they want, and suffer no consequences... whatsoever?
By saying exceptionally bigoted, racist, sexist, or stupid things, as both you and Imus did, you're causing an affect on very real people, and it's likely that because of those things you chose to say, they're going to stop liking you.
If enough of them stop liking you as a group, that group can decide if they, in turn, want to affect you. In Imus case, pressure was put on his sponsors from groups that believe that racism and sexism is indeed grounds to get someone fired. Those sponsors pulled their funding because they want the money they spent advertising on that station to sell products, and then the station decided to fire Imus, because they need money from their sponsors to keep the station running.
Everyone's within their rights here, legally. Even Imus - he's not facing any kind of criminal charges for what he did, just the societal consequences of being a bigot.
You just got an infraction, so it looks like you're seeing some consequences too. It's up to the people who are affected by what you say and do to decide if what you're doing is "all in good fun". Even if you don't feel that there's an issue there, or that they're being 'too sensitive' about racial comments, they can still be hurt by them, and if they are hurt by them enough times, chances are it'll come right back to hurt you.
I'm glad he's gone because well heck, saying shit like that on the air is just asking for your boss to give you the Axe. And then after you've been sprayed in the eyes with Axe he fires you.
I spend a fair bit of time listening to AM radio and I can only hope that a number of other loud mouthed ignorant radio show hosts follow Imus into the void, freedom of speech is important but you have to draw a line somewhere.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2007
Look, the way I see it the proper reaction should be:
Players: Racist asshole said something racist? Fuck him
Listeners:Racist Asshole said something racist? Fuck him
Radio: Racist asshole said something racist? Fuck him
I mean, you can like him or whatever, but to be surprised at the turn of events is kind of stupid. I am doubt that Imus' words affected the players that much, but that doesn't make it acceptable.
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
edited April 2007
Man why do people keep using the phrases "freedom of speech" and "expansion of liberty" in this context?
Look, the way I see it the proper reaction should be:
Players: Racist asshole said something racist? Fuck him
Listeners:Racist Asshole said something racist? Fuck him
Radio: Racist asshole said something racist? Fuck you you're fired.
Fixed
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Look, the way I see it the proper reaction should be:
Players: Racist asshole said something racist? Fuck him
Listeners:Racist Asshole said something racist? Fuck him
Radio: Racist asshole said something racist? Fuck you you're fired.
Fixed
Well, that's what I was going for, but it's more poetic the other way.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
I'm glad he's gone because well heck, saying shit like that on the air is just asking for your boss to give you the Axe. And then after you've been sprayed in the eyes with Axe he fires you.
I spend a fair bit of time listening to AM radio and I can only hope that a number of other loud mouthed ignorant radio show hosts follow Imus into the void, freedom of speech is important but you have to draw a line somewhere.
That's the thing, this isn't a freedom of speech issue. If he wanted to make those statements from a soapbox on an alley no one could do a thing to him.
He didn't lose any of his constitutional rights over this, just his job. Stupidity isn't a crime, but it is grounds for termination!
Most folks bring it up in conversations of this nature so I figure I'd just make it plain that I didn't think this should be protected.
Woah, woah woah. This isn't the way the argument should go, but the man has every right to say what he did. Every right. That doesn't mean it should be acceptable, or that he shouldn't lose his job, but he's allowed to say stupid things.
Most folks bring it up in conversations of this nature so I figure I'd just make it plain that I didn't think this should be protected.
Woah, woah woah. This isn't the way the argument should go, but the man has every right to say what he did. Every right. That doesn't mean it should be acceptable, or that he shouldn't lose his job, but he's allowed to say stupid things.
For sure. I'll be the first person in line to stand up for Imus' right to espouse racist views. I'd do the same for anyone else, no matter how much I hate what they're saying. I just wish certain people in this thread would stop conflating "freedom of speech" with "freedom from non-legal consequences stemming from free speech". People have been saying retarded shit and paying the price for it since before this nation was founded and Don Imus isn't exempt. And given the political and social climate that exists around racism in this country, only an idiot would make such statements and wonder why a big fuss is made in response.
This leads into a greater discussion over who should act as the gatekeeper to the eyes and ears of other Americans. Right now, most of that control rests in the hands of crusty old media moguls like Sumner Redstone, Jerry Zucker, and Rupert Murdoch (all of it if net neutrality is dismantled). Do they deserve to have nearly monopolistic control over the public discourse? What makes them more deserving of the opportunity to reach millions of people and shape our culture than Don Imus, or Al Franken, or your neighbor down the street?
We know that Don Imus answers to the media. But who does the media answer to? Americans are largely shut out of a system that at best has a strong influence over them and at worst controls their very lives. Can such an isolationist and elitist system of communication be justified?
I'm glad he's gone because well heck, saying shit like that on the air is just asking for your boss to give you the Axe. And then after you've been sprayed in the eyes with Axe he fires you.
I spend a fair bit of time listening to AM radio and I can only hope that a number of other loud mouthed ignorant radio show hosts follow Imus into the void, freedom of speech is important but you have to draw a line somewhere.
But where do you draw it, and who decides? The backlash is to the current climate of political correctness. It seems like everyone is looking to get offended by something. You have catholics yelling about how offensive movies like dogma and the da vinci code. You have Jewish people offended by the passion of the christ. Look at the whole Janet Jackson thing, a small portion of society was offended and now we have the FCC going nuts. Quite frankly I am not ready to let society at large decide where to draw the line, I'd rather leave it to individuals to choose what is or isn't offensive. This case happened to bring race into the picture. There have been a number of ridiculous cases like the politician using the word "niggardly" or Tony snow mentioning Tar Babies, where people have tried to call racism where it was unwarranted. The Imus thing has tapped into that, some people don't find it offensive, others do. Who is right?
Personally, if people are offended by his then I want to know why. What are the reasons that in todays society one offensive joke by a shock jock is causing such an uproar. I think solving those problems is a lot more important than a crusade to get one jackass fired.
If he just said it generically referring to women's basketball and not the team in particular no one would have given a shit because we all hear and see worse shit.
Or if he was black. I feel he should be punished because that was a retarded thing to say and he should have known that but getting fired seems harsh.
Yeah... usually South Park is quick to satirize recent events, but they've never predicted the future quite as accurately as they had in the Nagger Guy episode.
God. I thought, at the beginning of this thread, 'fuck the sexism bit, that nappy-hair thing was straight out of the fifties, what an asshole". But apparently historical and cultural ignorance is so rampant in the forum population that a disturbing number of you don't get what the problem with that part of the statement is.
So, whatever. Tell me why a dude paid to talk on national radio should get away without meaningful punishment for calling a group of enthusiastic young sportswomen 'whores'. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
God. I thought, at the beginning of this thread, 'fuck the sexism bit, that nappy-hair thing was straight out of the fifties, what an asshole". But apparently historical and cultural ignorance is so rampant in the forum population that a disturbing number of you don't get what the problem with that part of the statement is.
So, whatever. Tell me why a dude paid to talk on national radio should get away without meaningful punishment for calling a group of enthusiastic young sportswomen 'whores'. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
What do you consider meaningful punishment?
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
God. I thought, at the beginning of this thread, 'fuck the sexism bit, that nappy-hair thing was straight out of the fifties, what an asshole". But apparently historical and cultural ignorance is so rampant in the forum population that a disturbing number of you don't get what the problem with that part of the statement is.
So, whatever. Tell me why a dude paid to talk on national radio should get away without meaningful punishment for calling a group of enthusiastic young sportswomen 'whores'. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
I'm well aware, kidlings. I'm also well aware of the loud chorus of "oh leave the poor guy alone he was only joking!!!" in this thread, and I'm wondering what the hell is going through their heads.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2007
As far as I can tell, it's just scottman and Zephyr.
I'm well aware, kidlings. I'm also well aware of the loud chorus of "oh leave the poor guy alone he was only joking!!!" in this thread, and I'm wondering what the hell is going through their heads.
I'm well aware, kidlings. I'm also well aware of the loud chorus of "oh leave the poor guy alone he was only joking!!!" in this thread, and I'm wondering what the hell is going through their heads.
When will the kidlings learn?
I sigh, Shinto. I sit on my porch with my shotgun filled with rock salt, and I sigh.
I'm well aware, kidlings. I'm also well aware of the loud chorus of "oh leave the poor guy alone he was only joking!!!" in this thread, and I'm wondering what the hell is going through their heads.
When will the kidlings learn?
I sigh, Shinto. I sit on my porch with my shotgun filled with rock salt, and I sigh.
I also mutter, on occasion.
Why don't you get out of that flannel and put on some lipstick sweets. Then maybe you could find a man and get married.
I'm well aware, kidlings. I'm also well aware of the loud chorus of "oh leave the poor guy alone he was only joking!!!" in this thread, and I'm wondering what the hell is going through their heads.
Yeah... usually South Park is quick to satirize recent events, but they've never predicted the future quite as accurately as they had in the Nagger Guy episode.
It predicted that you will not find one decent complaint about a racist's firing? I missed that episode.
Personally, if people are offended by his then I want to know why. What are the reasons that in todays society one offensive joke by a shock jock is causing such an uproar.
Being a shock jock in no way makes his comments ok, and he's a racist. If you think he's not, then you need to go look at his past incidents of saying shit like this and worst, and tell me how he isn't a racist, and why his comments belong on TV. Should it cause an uproar? No, he should be fired before any uproar materializes, and without a single complaint.
If you've even thought about turning on the tv recently, you're probably aware that Don Imus--who is not the male version of Kathie Lee Gifford, as I had previously thought, but something more akin to the result of Keith Richards and Howard Stern hitting up that crazy Swiss cloning cult for a love child--called the Rutgers women's basketball team a bunch of nappy-headed hos. I don't know why he said it; to the best of my knowledge, none of those girls have done him wrong after the traditional ho fashion.
Anyway, he has tried to justify his remarks somewhat by pointing out that rappers are all about calling women hos.
Think about that for a second. It's okay that he did something, because rappers are constantly doing that thing, too.
Rappers.
I mean, I could kind of see it if Imus had gotten busted pissing all over an underaged girl while smoking, like, a full kilo of hash out of a bong the size of the Death Star and waving around a pair of illegal guns whose ballistics matched the bullets pulled out of one of his rivals the previous spring, and upon further inspection of the premises the cops found not one but two separate basements devoted to animal fighting, a small collection of illegitimate children, and two filing cabinets full of illegal immigrants. Or if he'd been talking at length about how he was going to bust a cap in Limbaugh's bitch ass one of these days, on account of what Limbaugh said about his new grill not blinging hard enough, and then Limbaugh almost gets shot in the lamest drive-by of the century and the police zeroed in on Imus as the prime suspect. Or if the cops had pulled him over in his stretch-Hummer limo because the rhinestone-encrusted bumpers were blinding other drivers and really not regulation anyway, and he tried and failed to bribe them while he was also paying the half-dozen prostitutes he'd picked up in Chinatown to gang-fellate him. Or if his response to being pulled over for driving while staggeringly drunk was to ask the officer if he (the officer) knew who he (Imus) was, and punctuate the question by pulling up his shirt to reveal a gun stuffed into the waistband of his pants.
That's when you get to pout about how if you were Biggie Smalls this would totally not even warrant a follow-up call from the local paper.
As it is, the only comparable incident I can think of is the time one of the bigger rappers called Oprah a bitch, and she had her security team break his legs and dump him off a pier, but that really wasn't so much about the rap milieu as about Oprah being on a total tear.
I don't really care about the Imus thing, but I think some people are having a hard time figuring out the difference between semantics and intent. I'd argue that there's no such thing as a 'bad word' or 'bad action'. It all boils down to intent. Killing a cat is bad, right? But what if you had to put it down because it had rabies and you had a child to protect? The arguments of "Well, Dave Chappelle and Carlos Mencia can say it" is because when you hear their jokes (hopefully not Mencia's. Horrible.) you understand that they don't have the intent to be mean. Dave can say whatever he wants about white people, because most people understand he doesn't mean it.
Now, I'm no expert, and I haven't even heard the recording (I don't think alot of people on here have), but the words he said, alone, are not enough to drive me to anger. If he said them with malicious intent, that's one thing, but if he was just using a colloquialism he'd overhead, in an attempt to add a bit a humor to the topic (he failed, I guess, but that doesn't really matter for this argument) that's another alltogether. I think it's a mistake to focus on the semantics of what he said, instead of fighting true racism. If he said it because he thinks all black people are inferior, or whatever, that'd be racism. On the other side of the coin, there are plenty of people who would never say the n-word or what Imus said that are still racists. For instance, a politician who watches his words, but secretly hates Jews. Those are the people we should be worried about.
I'm not trying to defend what Imus did, I don't know enough of the facts. I just think it's pretty stupid to yell 'racism' at a nippet of words taken out of context. Words themselves are never evil. It's the intent that matters. In any case, I can understand the team itself being angry about what he said, because it wasn't very flattering. I just don't see that it needs to be a big circus over it (which, in turn, caused a bit of an over-reaction from the team). Now, prove to me that he said those words in malice, and you'll have a reason he should be fired. Words are just that, words. I could get mad at Chappell or numerous other comedians for calling white people crackers, etc, because I don't want to be associated with slave-owners, but I don't, because I understand he doesn't mean it.
If there's one piece of advice I've ever heard regarding racism, it's that we should learn to celebrate our differences, instead of being all PC about it. When you make certain words taboo, you're just giving biggots the tools to enforce their world view. We're all different, and we should embrace and enjoy that. The movement to 'make everyone equal' doesn't really accomplish anything, and is rife with contradictions. What we need to understand is that we will never be 'equal' with everyone, it's just impossible. We need to embrace our differences and move on. Equal opportunity is one thing, but true equality is unobtainable, and in my opinion, undesireable.
Like I said, I don't know alot about the situation, but if people are automatically saying that words had malicious intent, just because they were spoken by a white guy, that's racism. I'm not saying he should have said what he said (it was insulting to the team), and I don't know anything of his history or if he is involved with the KKK or something, but when a rapper says those same words, it's assumed they're meant in jest.
after all we know that racism is defeated and it no longer exists, i mean an extended joke comparing blacks to negatively held black stereotypes couldn't possibly have any kind of negative effects because saying "i'm sorry" instantly fixes any repurcussions
after all we know that racism is defeated and it no longer exists, i mean an extended joke comparing blacks to negatively held black stereotypes couldn't possibly have any kind of negative effects because saying "i'm sorry" instantly fixes any repurcussions
You missed the point. Do you know for a fact that Imus was saying that phrase with the intent of inferring negative black stereotypes? Like I said, I have no idea, but I doubt a white guy as old as Imus even knew exactly what the phrase meant. It's probably a colloquialism he heard listening to a rap song, or on the street somewhere. You can't say the phrase itself is evil. For instance, a rapper says the phrase, but we understand it's for the purposes of the rhyme, or what have you, and it's not meant maliciously. Is it wrong to automatically assume he meant to insult a whole race based on that same phrase, just because he's white?
Whether or not Imus is a racist is not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing semantics vs. intent.
I was bottom'd, and I think I had a point to make (go figure):
I don't really care about the Imus thing, but I think some people are having a hard time figuring out the difference between semantics and intent. I'd argue that there's no such thing as a 'bad word' or 'bad action'. It all boils down to intent. Killing a cat is bad, right? But what if you had to put it down because it had rabies and you had a child to protect? The arguments of "Well, Dave Chappelle and Carlos Mencia can say it" is because when you hear their jokes (hopefully not Mencia's. Horrible.) you understand that they don't have the intent to be mean. Dave can say whatever he wants about white people, because most people understand he doesn't mean it.
Now, I'm no expert, and I haven't even heard the recording (I don't think alot of people on here have), but the words he said, alone, are not enough to drive me to anger. If he said them with malicious intent, that's one thing, but if he was just using a colloquialism he'd overhead, in an attempt to add a bit a humor to the topic (he failed, I guess, but that doesn't really matter for this argument) that's another alltogether. I think it's a mistake to focus on the semantics of what he said, instead of fighting true racism. If he said it because he thinks all black people are inferior, or whatever, that'd be racism. On the other side of the coin, there are plenty of people who would never say the n-word or what Imus said that are still racists. For instance, a politician who watches his words, but secretly hates Jews. Those are the people we should be worried about.
I'm not trying to defend what Imus did, I don't know enough of the facts. I just think it's pretty stupid to yell 'racism' at a nippet of words taken out of context. Words themselves are never evil. It's the intent that matters. In any case, I can understand the team itself being angry about what he said, because it wasn't very flattering. I just don't see that it needs to be a big circus over it (which, in turn, caused a bit of an over-reaction from the team). Now, prove to me that he said those words in malice, and you'll have a reason he should be fired. Words are just that, words. I could get mad at Chappell or numerous other comedians for calling white people crackers, etc, because I don't want to be associated with slave-owners, but I don't, because I understand he doesn't mean it.
If there's one piece of advice I've ever heard regarding racism, it's that we should learn to celebrate our differences, instead of being all PC about it. When you make certain words taboo, you're just giving biggots the tools to enforce their world view. We're all different, and we should embrace and enjoy that. The movement to 'make everyone equal' doesn't really accomplish anything, and is rife with contradictions. What we need to understand is that we will never be 'equal' with everyone, it's just impossible. We need to embrace our differences and move on. Equal opportunity is one thing, but true equality is unobtainable, and in my opinion, undesireable.
Like I said, I don't know alot about the situation, but if people are automatically saying that words had malicious intent, just because they were spoken by a white guy, that's racism. I'm not saying he should have said what he said (it was insulting to the team), and I don't know anything of his history or if he is involved with the KKK or something, but when a rapper says those same words, it's assumed they're meant in jest.
Are you fucking retarded? Don Imus was born in 1940, making him in his 20s through the civil rights era, and well into his prime for the racism problems throughout the 70s and late 80s.
You are goddamn stupid if you don't think Don Imus is "what is racism????" or if he didn't know exactly what his words meant. He references Spike fucking Lee, for christ's sake.
Edit for content: Furthermore, this is not an isolated incident. He has a history of controversial statements.
Are you fucking retarded? Don Imus was born in 1940, making him in his 20s through the civil rights era, and well into his prime through the racism problems throughout the 70s and late 80s.
You are goddamn stupid if you don't think Don Imus is "what is racism????" or if he didn't know exactly what his words meant. He references Spike fucking Lee, for christ's sake.
Again, you missed the point. Maybe he did know what it means, I don't know. But I'm not sure he had malicious intent behind the words. Maybe he didn't think it was offensive because he saw Tyra Banks say it on Top Model, I don't know. I think it's a mistake to get huffed up over semantics when intent is what really matters. Did he say those words with the intent of degrading an entire race? We are giving much to much power to words, and not nearly enough attention to intent. I know incredibly racist people who would never say the n-word. That doesn't mean that they're still not racist. By the same coin, then, couldn't it be said that not everyone who uses that word IS a racist? (think rappers, etc).
To boil it down for you, say this was Dave Chappell's talk show, and he was commenting on the appearance of the team, and said the same exact phrase. Everyone would laugh it off, assumig it was a joke. But it wasn't Dave Chappell, and everyone's assuming Imus meant to degrade an entire race. Maybe Imus is racist, maybe he isn't (I've never really heard his show, or studied up on his past), but the phrase itself should not be enough to encite this kind of reaction.
Intent doesn't have to be explicit for negative connotations to be carried through words. You are thinking about the words in a vacuum, when real life is far more complicated than just abstracting the words into a theory of communication. Given the history of racism and the nature of modern racism in the United States (that is, subtle and connotative), it is naive to assume that Don Imus wasn't possibly holding any kind of negative image of Blacks in his mind when he made the statements.
Furthermore, if you don't understand the power difference between a black man using the word "nigger" and a white man using the word "nigger," I recommend you do some more reading about racism in general.
Posts
Sigged so hard. :^:
Props to celery, Elk, and Aethelred for the unassailable counters to scottman and Zephyr's ungodly amount of stupid.
Scottman, no one gives a shit if your three black friends were laughing hysterically at your "jive talk". Their opinions don't somehow represent for every black person. Their opinions certainly don't make it inoffensive and non-racist. I'm fucking tired of hearing white people use that excuse for their little racist shit. Just because your black friend lets you call him the N word doesn't mean it's all good to say it to any black person you meet, nor does it mean that I'm wrong for being offended. That jive talk bullshit is offensive and it makes you a racist in my book.
Do you really think that people should be able to say whatever they want, whenever they want, and suffer no consequences... whatsoever?
By saying exceptionally bigoted, racist, sexist, or stupid things, as both you and Imus did, you're causing an affect on very real people, and it's likely that because of those things you chose to say, they're going to stop liking you.
If enough of them stop liking you as a group, that group can decide if they, in turn, want to affect you. In Imus case, pressure was put on his sponsors from groups that believe that racism and sexism is indeed grounds to get someone fired. Those sponsors pulled their funding because they want the money they spent advertising on that station to sell products, and then the station decided to fire Imus, because they need money from their sponsors to keep the station running.
Everyone's within their rights here, legally. Even Imus - he's not facing any kind of criminal charges for what he did, just the societal consequences of being a bigot.
You just got an infraction, so it looks like you're seeing some consequences too. It's up to the people who are affected by what you say and do to decide if what you're doing is "all in good fun". Even if you don't feel that there's an issue there, or that they're being 'too sensitive' about racial comments, they can still be hurt by them, and if they are hurt by them enough times, chances are it'll come right back to hurt you.
I spend a fair bit of time listening to AM radio and I can only hope that a number of other loud mouthed ignorant radio show hosts follow Imus into the void, freedom of speech is important but you have to draw a line somewhere.
Players: Racist asshole said something racist? Fuck him
Listeners:Racist Asshole said something racist? Fuck him
Radio: Racist asshole said something racist? Fuck him
I mean, you can like him or whatever, but to be surprised at the turn of events is kind of stupid. I am doubt that Imus' words affected the players that much, but that doesn't make it acceptable.
Fixed
Well, that's what I was going for, but it's more poetic the other way.
That's the thing, this isn't a freedom of speech issue. If he wanted to make those statements from a soapbox on an alley no one could do a thing to him.
He didn't lose any of his constitutional rights over this, just his job. Stupidity isn't a crime, but it is grounds for termination!
Most folks bring it up in conversations of this nature so I figure I'd just make it plain that I didn't think this should be protected.
Woah, woah woah. This isn't the way the argument should go, but the man has every right to say what he did. Every right. That doesn't mean it should be acceptable, or that he shouldn't lose his job, but he's allowed to say stupid things.
For sure. I'll be the first person in line to stand up for Imus' right to espouse racist views. I'd do the same for anyone else, no matter how much I hate what they're saying. I just wish certain people in this thread would stop conflating "freedom of speech" with "freedom from non-legal consequences stemming from free speech". People have been saying retarded shit and paying the price for it since before this nation was founded and Don Imus isn't exempt. And given the political and social climate that exists around racism in this country, only an idiot would make such statements and wonder why a big fuss is made in response.
Everyone who wanted Imus to lose his job, I hope you're happy. You killed Kurt Vonnegut.
We know that Don Imus answers to the media. But who does the media answer to? Americans are largely shut out of a system that at best has a strong influence over them and at worst controls their very lives. Can such an isolationist and elitist system of communication be justified?
Same old site, great new look! Check out The Gameroom Blitz at:
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But where do you draw it, and who decides? The backlash is to the current climate of political correctness. It seems like everyone is looking to get offended by something. You have catholics yelling about how offensive movies like dogma and the da vinci code. You have Jewish people offended by the passion of the christ. Look at the whole Janet Jackson thing, a small portion of society was offended and now we have the FCC going nuts. Quite frankly I am not ready to let society at large decide where to draw the line, I'd rather leave it to individuals to choose what is or isn't offensive. This case happened to bring race into the picture. There have been a number of ridiculous cases like the politician using the word "niggardly" or Tony snow mentioning Tar Babies, where people have tried to call racism where it was unwarranted. The Imus thing has tapped into that, some people don't find it offensive, others do. Who is right?
Personally, if people are offended by his then I want to know why. What are the reasons that in todays society one offensive joke by a shock jock is causing such an uproar. I think solving those problems is a lot more important than a crusade to get one jackass fired.
If he just said it generically referring to women's basketball and not the team in particular no one would have given a shit because we all hear and see worse shit.
Or if he was black. I feel he should be punished because that was a retarded thing to say and he should have known that but getting fired seems harsh.
Anyway, this kinda reminded me of South Park.
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So, whatever. Tell me why a dude paid to talk on national radio should get away without meaningful punishment for calling a group of enthusiastic young sportswomen 'whores'. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
What do you consider meaningful punishment?
... He was fired?
When will the kidlings learn?
I sigh, Shinto. I sit on my porch with my shotgun filled with rock salt, and I sigh.
I also mutter, on occasion.
Why don't you get out of that flannel and put on some lipstick sweets. Then maybe you could find a man and get married.
WHY SHOULD I BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS?
THAT'S NOT FAIR!
It predicted that you will not find one decent complaint about a racist's firing? I missed that episode.
Being a shock jock in no way makes his comments ok, and he's a racist. If you think he's not, then you need to go look at his past incidents of saying shit like this and worst, and tell me how he isn't a racist, and why his comments belong on TV. Should it cause an uproar? No, he should be fired before any uproar materializes, and without a single complaint.
Link?
I wish he was around here more.
Now, I'm no expert, and I haven't even heard the recording (I don't think alot of people on here have), but the words he said, alone, are not enough to drive me to anger. If he said them with malicious intent, that's one thing, but if he was just using a colloquialism he'd overhead, in an attempt to add a bit a humor to the topic (he failed, I guess, but that doesn't really matter for this argument) that's another alltogether. I think it's a mistake to focus on the semantics of what he said, instead of fighting true racism. If he said it because he thinks all black people are inferior, or whatever, that'd be racism. On the other side of the coin, there are plenty of people who would never say the n-word or what Imus said that are still racists. For instance, a politician who watches his words, but secretly hates Jews. Those are the people we should be worried about.
I'm not trying to defend what Imus did, I don't know enough of the facts. I just think it's pretty stupid to yell 'racism' at a nippet of words taken out of context. Words themselves are never evil. It's the intent that matters. In any case, I can understand the team itself being angry about what he said, because it wasn't very flattering. I just don't see that it needs to be a big circus over it (which, in turn, caused a bit of an over-reaction from the team). Now, prove to me that he said those words in malice, and you'll have a reason he should be fired. Words are just that, words. I could get mad at Chappell or numerous other comedians for calling white people crackers, etc, because I don't want to be associated with slave-owners, but I don't, because I understand he doesn't mean it.
If there's one piece of advice I've ever heard regarding racism, it's that we should learn to celebrate our differences, instead of being all PC about it. When you make certain words taboo, you're just giving biggots the tools to enforce their world view. We're all different, and we should embrace and enjoy that. The movement to 'make everyone equal' doesn't really accomplish anything, and is rife with contradictions. What we need to understand is that we will never be 'equal' with everyone, it's just impossible. We need to embrace our differences and move on. Equal opportunity is one thing, but true equality is unobtainable, and in my opinion, undesireable.
Like I said, I don't know alot about the situation, but if people are automatically saying that words had malicious intent, just because they were spoken by a white guy, that's racism. I'm not saying he should have said what he said (it was insulting to the team), and I don't know anything of his history or if he is involved with the KKK or something, but when a rapper says those same words, it's assumed they're meant in jest.
after all we know that racism is defeated and it no longer exists, i mean an extended joke comparing blacks to negatively held black stereotypes couldn't possibly have any kind of negative effects because saying "i'm sorry" instantly fixes any repurcussions
You missed the point. Do you know for a fact that Imus was saying that phrase with the intent of inferring negative black stereotypes? Like I said, I have no idea, but I doubt a white guy as old as Imus even knew exactly what the phrase meant. It's probably a colloquialism he heard listening to a rap song, or on the street somewhere. You can't say the phrase itself is evil. For instance, a rapper says the phrase, but we understand it's for the purposes of the rhyme, or what have you, and it's not meant maliciously. Is it wrong to automatically assume he meant to insult a whole race based on that same phrase, just because he's white?
Whether or not Imus is a racist is not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing semantics vs. intent.
I was bottom'd, and I think I had a point to make (go figure):
You are goddamn stupid if you don't think Don Imus is "what is racism????" or if he didn't know exactly what his words meant. He references Spike fucking Lee, for christ's sake.
Edit for content: Furthermore, this is not an isolated incident. He has a history of controversial statements.
Again, you missed the point. Maybe he did know what it means, I don't know. But I'm not sure he had malicious intent behind the words. Maybe he didn't think it was offensive because he saw Tyra Banks say it on Top Model, I don't know. I think it's a mistake to get huffed up over semantics when intent is what really matters. Did he say those words with the intent of degrading an entire race? We are giving much to much power to words, and not nearly enough attention to intent. I know incredibly racist people who would never say the n-word. That doesn't mean that they're still not racist. By the same coin, then, couldn't it be said that not everyone who uses that word IS a racist? (think rappers, etc).
To boil it down for you, say this was Dave Chappell's talk show, and he was commenting on the appearance of the team, and said the same exact phrase. Everyone would laugh it off, assumig it was a joke. But it wasn't Dave Chappell, and everyone's assuming Imus meant to degrade an entire race. Maybe Imus is racist, maybe he isn't (I've never really heard his show, or studied up on his past), but the phrase itself should not be enough to encite this kind of reaction.
Furthermore, if you don't understand the power difference between a black man using the word "nigger" and a white man using the word "nigger," I recommend you do some more reading about racism in general.