To be fair, those bosses you mention from Start/Scholo and such were meant to be endgame bosses. The equivalent of like a 10 man raid boss for the game as it is now.
No, the mechanics of wrath bosses are perfectly tedious on their own. Especially the ones that go invincible and make you wait for large portions of the fight, such as Ichiron and Ionar. Those two are easily the worst bosses in the game. Tedium at its finest. Ymiron is similar, but you can break his stun maybe once or twice during the fight.
The problem with those fights isn't the mechanics, it's that people outgear the fights. Hell, the real issue is that we outgeared them too quickly.
Ionar, for instance, was an interesting fight at the start of WOTLK when those Lightning Things could kick the shit out of you if you didn't run like hell. Or when it was a race to kill those Banshee adds with Sylvana.
No, the mechanics of wrath bosses are perfectly tedious on their own. Especially the ones that go invincible and make you wait for large portions of the fight, such as Ichiron and Ionar. Those two are easily the worst bosses in the game. Tedium at its finest. Ymiron is similar, but you can break his stun maybe once or twice during the fight.
The problem with those fights isn't the mechanics, it's that people outgear the fights. Hell, the real issue is that we outgeared them too quickly.
Ionar, for instance, was an interesting fight at the start of WOTLK when those Lightning Things could kick the shit out of you if you didn't run like hell. Or when it was a race to kill those Banshee adds with Sylvana.
My thought is that if it gets tedious when you outgear it, its probably bad design to begin with. Its not really tedious when you outgear a boss enough that you just pound his face in and move on, but it is tedious when you sit on your ass waiting.
No, the mechanics of wrath bosses are perfectly tedious on their own. Especially the ones that go invincible and make you wait for large portions of the fight, such as Ichiron and Ionar. Those two are easily the worst bosses in the game. Tedium at its finest. Ymiron is similar, but you can break his stun maybe once or twice during the fight.
The problem with those fights isn't the mechanics, it's that people outgear the fights. Hell, the real issue is that we outgeared them too quickly.
Ionar, for instance, was an interesting fight at the start of WOTLK when those Lightning Things could kick the shit out of you if you didn't run like hell. Or when it was a race to kill those Banshee adds with Sylvana.
My thought is that if it gets tedious when you outgear it, its probably bad design to begin with. Its not really tedious when you outgear a boss enough that you just pound his face in and move on, but it is tedious when you sit on your ass waiting.
No, not really.
The easiest/most boring thing to outgear are survival phases.
So unless you wanna cut them completely, that's the way it works out.
shryke on
0
Options
INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.
Smite's new weapons don't change the way the fight operates. (Most groups at this point DPS Ymiron fast enough that his new weapons don't, either, but that wasn't always the case.)
I mean, if you honestly think the design that goes into Wrath fights are the same as vanilla fights, more power to you, I guess.
There were always large numbers people in Classic who were gear-appropriate for the endgame 5-mans and UBRS, because the limits of epics-for-nonraiders were limited to honor farmed PvP gear and a few assorted reputation items like Cenarion Circle or Argent Dawn.
I remember back when I was soloing and striving to get this mace. Because in the old days, epics were still epic.
So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.
Smite's new weapons don't change the way the fight operates. (Most groups at this point DPS Ymiron fast enough that his new weapons don't, either, but that wasn't always the case.)
I mean, if you honestly think the design that goes into Wrath fights are the same as vanilla fights, more power to you, I guess.
I was trolling a bit. Seriously though, in all the times I've run Pinnacle from release of Wrath to now I've never been in a group that treated Ymiron any differently than "not stunned? dps". There was never a point where we backed off because of Bane. I don't think anyone really noticed. I've never seen any adds pop up either.
So...Ymiron stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a boat vs Smite who stuns people so he can grab an extra weapon out of a chest.
Smite's new weapons don't change the way the fight operates. (Most groups at this point DPS Ymiron fast enough that his new weapons don't, either, but that wasn't always the case.)
I mean, if you honestly think the design that goes into Wrath fights are the same as vanilla fights, more power to you, I guess.
I was trolling a bit. Seriously though, in all the times I've run Pinnacle from release of Wrath to now I've never been in a group that treated Ymiron any differently than "not stunned? dps". There was never a point where we backed off because of Bane. I don't think anyone really noticed. I've never seen any adds pop up either.
The biggest thing that makes so many fights seem dull or easy now is seriously outgearing everything. Most of the encounters were balance around when you were running heroics in blues and a few ilvl200 epics. Back when people got excited about breaking 3000dps on Patchwerk. When clearing Culling of Stratholme in time to fight the extra boss was a real close call.
Nowadays, it's hard to do a heroic without people covered in epics ilvl226 or higher. It's like the difference between PvPing in crafted gear versus full arena epics.
Not to rehash a couple pages ago, but I'm guessing with the massive changes to world in Cataclysm, both Deadmines and SFK are going to get face lifts that are more representative of the on-going story line.
Regardless of silly disagreements, I think it's pretty obvious that Blizzard has a learned a lot and changed the way they build boss encounters (IMO, for the better) even on the "easy" instances. I look forward to seeing what they do with the old stuff being remade.
Warcraft's storyline has never been that amazing. It's the same couple plot devices blizzard loves over and over - corruption of heroes, etc - it never is coherent, and half of the plot points require one or more of the characters involved to be functionally retarded for it to make any sense. Warcraft's plot is incredibly shallow and serves as little more to string along the gameplay from one point to another.
And you know what? I'm fine with that because all the games are fun as hell. Blizzard can make games but they sure as hell can't write a story beyond "blargh I must protect people oh no now I'm evil gonna kill you all raarrgh"
This is lazy reasoning. There's a large range of quality to plots and for different reasons. Warcraft has most definitely degraded in quality through poorly done retcons and a relegating of everything to adaptations.
No Warcraft is not amazing for the story, but it was entertaining. I still enjoy the cinematics from Warcraft 3 and the characters were fun and do add to the experience. This experience is damaged whenever they randomly add new details, forget old ones (or not-so-old, Mr. Lehner) or stuff the interesting shit into books and comics. Remember how you said the story wasn't amazing? Well, I certainly don't want to plop 15 bucks on said story without the gameplay. So uh, can we have not shove the story of Varian's kidnapping/recovery into a godawful comic?
I mean, what if retaking Gnomeregan/Echo Isles got similar treatment? We'd be missing out again. And part of making it a MMORPG is experiencing that shit first-hand. It defeats the purpose, from an immersion perspective.
The wintergrasp changes are meaningless because the biggest problem with WG and unbalanced teams is that the group with more than double the players absolutely melts the vehicles which means it's impossible for the attacking team to win. I thought the best suggestion I heard around here was let the broken walls stay down after a certain number of losses. That would mean you'd eventually win after 4 or 5 losses.
No see the point is we want to keep the horde down. We like being able to do voa any time we want.
Every time I come in Wintergrasp, you in wintergrasp. In the goddamn VoA. Eating up all the stonekeeper shards... all the honor points... all the PvP gear... all the commendations. I want some shards... I like PvP gear.
No see the point is we want to keep the horde down. We like being able to do voa any time we want.
Every time I come in Wintergrasp, you in wintergrasp. In the goddamn VoA. Eating up all the stonekeeper shards... all the honor points... all the PvP gear... all the commendations. I want some shards... I like PvP gear.
Someone was saying they had buffed the battered hilt drop rates but I haven't been able to check the recent changes yet. Any truth behind that claim?
On PTR?
They already increased it via hotfix on live servers, but that was...like a month and a half ago.
I had thought it was back then but one of my guildies was adament that they had done it again with the latest hotfix which was why I was asking. Damn silly goose won a battered hilt roll against me and the guild leader and was right smug about it after. That and ordering the group around which just pissed everyone off since he was doing the worst of anyone in our FoS run.
Can RankWatch ever be wrong? I cast Greater Blessing of Might yesterday, and I got a tell that I was using rank 3 out of a max of 5. I moused over the spell just to be sure, and it was 5, the max. Might it trigger off giving a buff to a low-level who can't get buffs that good?
Can RankWatch ever be wrong? I cast Greater Blessing of Might yesterday, and I got a tell that I was using rank 3 out of a max of 5. I moused over the spell just to be sure, and it was 5, the max. Might it trigger off giving a buff to a low-level who can't get buffs that good?
I went from 1 person on my ignore list to over 10 this weekend.
Everything from:
"Pull as much shit as you can and train it back to the group and drop"
to
"Stealing nodes of shit right after the person asks if there's anyone else who needs it too"
to
"Tanking while not being a tank" or "Not wanting to wait 2 seconds because the tank had to equip an item and start pulling shit."
to
"Just being complete unable to function as a human being, this includes not pooping yourself while breathing."
The person who stole the node was asked not to do it, and then said, "Sure, if I remember." So I vote kicked him before the last boss. There are plenty more huntards in the see, thanks.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Posts
The problem with those fights isn't the mechanics, it's that people outgear the fights. Hell, the real issue is that we outgeared them too quickly.
Ionar, for instance, was an interesting fight at the start of WOTLK when those Lightning Things could kick the shit out of you if you didn't run like hell. Or when it was a race to kill those Banshee adds with Sylvana.
My thought is that if it gets tedious when you outgear it, its probably bad design to begin with. Its not really tedious when you outgear a boss enough that you just pound his face in and move on, but it is tedious when you sit on your ass waiting.
No, not really.
The easiest/most boring thing to outgear are survival phases.
So unless you wanna cut them completely, that's the way it works out.
Smite's new weapons don't change the way the fight operates. (Most groups at this point DPS Ymiron fast enough that his new weapons don't, either, but that wasn't always the case.)
I mean, if you honestly think the design that goes into Wrath fights are the same as vanilla fights, more power to you, I guess.
I remember back when I was soloing and striving to get this mace. Because in the old days, epics were still epic.
Like say, capping a graveyard in AV. :twisted:
And that was before they changed the proc. It used to be "Chance on hit: Your next spell becomes instant cast".
I was trolling a bit. Seriously though, in all the times I've run Pinnacle from release of Wrath to now I've never been in a group that treated Ymiron any differently than "not stunned? dps". There was never a point where we backed off because of Bane. I don't think anyone really noticed. I've never seen any adds pop up either.
The proc used to make any spell instant cast.
There was a paladin on my server who used to smack people until it proc'd at which point he'd instantly cap a Graveyard in AV.
If you DPS hard enough the Bane never happens.
Nowadays, it's hard to do a heroic without people covered in epics ilvl226 or higher. It's like the difference between PvPing in crafted gear versus full arena epics.
If I'm wrong, I'll delete* my character.
*copy my character to the test server and :winky:
No pally changes, no caring
And no significant priest changes that I can remember off the top of my head
Yeah, I'm bummed you guys aren't getting nerfed, too. :winky:
Hey, pally tanks got nerfed the other week. I could always deal with a ret buff. I'm still not breaking 8k dps with my 4 piece and a Bryntoll
No Warcraft is not amazing for the story, but it was entertaining. I still enjoy the cinematics from Warcraft 3 and the characters were fun and do add to the experience. This experience is damaged whenever they randomly add new details, forget old ones (or not-so-old, Mr. Lehner) or stuff the interesting shit into books and comics. Remember how you said the story wasn't amazing? Well, I certainly don't want to plop 15 bucks on said story without the gameplay. So uh, can we have not shove the story of Varian's kidnapping/recovery into a godawful comic?
I mean, what if retaking Gnomeregan/Echo Isles got similar treatment? We'd be missing out again. And part of making it a MMORPG is experiencing that shit first-hand. It defeats the purpose, from an immersion perspective.
As for the rumours I hope they are not of the comic because they flushed that whole story and started over
How hard is it to create npcs that help the side that needs help?
Every time I come in Wintergrasp, you in wintergrasp. In the goddamn VoA. Eating up all the stonekeeper shards... all the honor points... all the PvP gear... all the commendations. I want some shards... I like PvP gear.
The only change is that it takes one more loss before the faction really in the hole starts losing their advantages.
In other words, it does absolutely jack to resolve population imbalance issues.
On PTR?
They already increased it via hotfix on live servers, but that was...like a month and a half ago.
I had thought it was back then but one of my guildies was adament that they had done it again with the latest hotfix which was why I was asking. Damn silly goose won a battered hilt roll against me and the guild leader and was right smug about it after. That and ordering the group around which just pissed everyone off since he was doing the worst of anyone in our FoS run.
Most likely!
I went from 1 person on my ignore list to over 10 this weekend.
Everything from:
"Pull as much shit as you can and train it back to the group and drop"
to
"Stealing nodes of shit right after the person asks if there's anyone else who needs it too"
to
"Tanking while not being a tank" or "Not wanting to wait 2 seconds because the tank had to equip an item and start pulling shit."
to
"Just being complete unable to function as a human being, this includes not pooping yourself while breathing."
The person who stole the node was asked not to do it, and then said, "Sure, if I remember." So I vote kicked him before the last boss. There are plenty more huntards in the see, thanks.