The Dreaming

Salutations, everyone! I found out about this Art Corner forum from its Deviantart page and decided to start my own thread of/for my art to get critique and feedback on it. Since Deviantart is not really the suitable places to get such feedback even if you do get “popular” and such.

What I shall post now and possibly in the future are more of practices and studies of the human anatomy rather than displays of my creativity because I wish and believe to have a good founding in my traditional media and knowledge of the human anatomy and so forth before I depict the form the way I wish to.

Therefore, I seek and appreciate your critique and feedback on these practices to improve my knowledge, rendering of the human anatomy and to be better as an artist.

I have been drawing in the Manga /Anime style for about a year when I was 15 and started on a more realistic/realism style when I turned 16 last year because I found out that you should learn the basic realistic structure of the human form or anything really to change it to your style. I have been trying to draw realistically for a year now and only knew about Andrew Loomis ,Burne Hograth and George Bridgman’s books in the last 6 months of that year and have been working with them ever since. Much more so with Andrew Loomis though because I could print his books (which I have in pdf. format along with Burne Hograth and George Bridgman's books) out more easily because of their lower page count.

I will be starting an Animation Course this year April however before that I have or had a long break and I wish to fully utilize that break to be more productive or be as productive as my laziness would allow me to. The Animation Course would have life drawing and such which would, of course, improve my core knowledge and skills however I do not wish to just wait till then.

Some artists I admire are: Andrew Loomis, Burne Hograth, John Singer Sargent, George Bridgman, Craig Mullins, Sons of The Storm (Team of artists for Blizzard) and countless others or others whose names I have forgotten. Although I do believe that an artist’s style just sort of happens naturally, and is a amalgamation of all sorts of different influences on an artist, I am specifically striving to having a more realistic style for my art, not 100% realistic / anatomically correct but leaning towards realism, great examples of such a style are Craig Mullins, Luis Royo, Frank Frazetta, Iain Mccaig and again other artists whose names I do not recall at this time.

My goal or goals as of now here is to achieve a strong traditional foundation of anatomy to help my art more greatly, to gain the ability to depict the characters in my head the way they are with good solid form and structure and to be a better artist. I also wish to become an artist or possibly an animator in the Entertainment Industry in the future.

Head11.jpg?t=1267378190

Head12.jpg?t=1267378073

Head9.jpg?t=1267378174

Head10.jpg?t=1267378089

Head6.jpg?t=1267378073

I would really have to know more about values/tones/shading etc. Most of the drawings I do are line drawings and do not have shading. I have other qualms as well but those can be said another time, possibly in addresses to your feedback.

And again, your feedback and critiques would be greatly appreciated.

IgneusToastus on

Posts

  • FoodFood Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Are you drawing these from life or from in your head? You can read all you want about anatomy and shading but you'll never get anywhere unless you try to apply what you've learned to life drawings. I recommend just sitting in front of a mirror and drawing self portraits until you gain a better understanding. Also, try to throw out everything you learned about drawing from anime. There's nothing wrong with the style, but if you want to learn how to draw realistically it will only hold you back. For example, look at the hair in the third drawing down. Hair in real life just doesn't do that. But welcome to the forums. You seem to have the right attitude to make the most of this place.

    Food on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2010
    I'm glad the DA group is attracting people looking for this kind of community! Food is right about life drawing, and whipping out a mirror is a great idea.

    The portraits you have here look like they are going in the right direction. If you're working from photos, I suggest posting the photos so we can give more direct feedback on each image. Ikage's thread is a great inspiration for intense studying if you want to look through her work.

    Iruka on
  • IrmaIrma Registered User
    edited March 2010
    A popular approach in korean/japanese art schools is to obsessively draw roman/greek busts.

    I actually found it incredibly helpful, because it forces you to think in form and values instead of colour. Instead of thinking of eyes as blue or brown, you think of them as spheres in a socket. Instead of thinking of hair as individual strands, you think of it as chunks of form, and so on and so forth.

    Ideally, if you can get your hands on a bust (unlikely) or hit up a museum (more likely), it can be amazing practice, since you can draw the same bust from several angles.

    Even photos can be good practice reference: http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis/HST210/Sept23/Roman%20Homer%20Bust.jpg

    I tried to track down a sample rendering of one of these bust, 'cause they tend to be ridiculously good, but no luck.

    The first image you posted shows good rudimentary structure, especially in the nose and lips area. If you can fill out that approach to the rest of the face and start in on values, you'll be there in no time!

    Irma on
  • edited March 2010
    Thank you all for all your feedback, I greatly appreciate them.

    Food- The drawings were all from my head. I do indeed realize that just reading about anatomy, shading or anything really without applying it is useless. I just wish to have more material and resources on them. I actually do plan to use a mirror and such to do self-portraits to apply the stuff that I have read however I really want to know how to set up, for example, three mirrors attached to each other to see the side-view, three-quarter view without having to move the mirror or myself too much. Regarding the hair and such, I believe that I have already thrown out everything that I have learned with drawing anime/manga, I do believe that the hair were more of a result of me being lazy and mediocre with it than it being an influence from the manga/anime learnings. I tend to want to draw hair more detailed and realistic however I do think that I am going the wrong way of drawing it. Instead of drawing the general shape and working in the details I go and just add in random manga-looking clumps of hair and throw in random details and random strands/clumps of hair in a, as I said, mediocre attempt to draw hair. I also have another problem with hair that also contributes to this said problem which is I have no idea how to "put" it on the head or "wrap" it around the head or more simply put: make it look like actual natural hair. Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

    Iruka-I am not working from photos for these particular set of drawings. I really do wish to work from photos, however, I always have this problem when I do so which is where I really, really, want to make the drawing as identical to the photograph as possible and when it's not I just can't seem to finish it. I will try to do so again soon and finish it regardless. I know of Ikage's studies and work seeing that I found out about the Artist's Corner from her Deviantart page. I do plan to get off my lazy butt ASAP and do studies as extensively and has much effort as hers. I will most likely show my attempted extensive studies and portraits from photographs soon.

    Irma-I did not know of such an approach is being done. I do indeed see how it could help, as you said, by forcing you to think more in form and values instead of colour and thinking of the eyes as spheres in a socket rather than of the details which should come later. I would love to get my hands on such a bust however I do not think it's likely to do so, especially here in Singapore. Even if I found one I could buy it would most likely be priced expensively, I do not recall whether the museum here has these kinds of busts. They most likely do and I will make a trip down there when possible and see if they allow me to sit there and draw the bust. Thank you for taking the effort to attempt track down a sample rendering of such a bust. I do think that photos of these busts could help and I will Google for them along with photographs of people to draw.

    So, to finalize, what I shall show you next time I post would be, drawings of photographs of people and Roman/Greek busts, possibly self-portraits and some other assorted drawings of possibly, figures etc.

    And again, thanks for the feedback.

    IgneusToastus on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2010
    Though they are not all the best references, I have started to collect reference images on DA. http://pa-artistcorner.deviantart.com/favourites/?38652198

    Googleing around will help alot too, theres also this site:
    http://www.characterdesigns.com/index.php?sitepage=photosets

    For being from your head, these really aren't too bad. Its rather hard to make up structure when you are still understanding it, so its not really surprising. Drawing from photos can be pretty frustrating, I would try and set smaller goals for yourself and stick to them. Like, find a diagram of the structure of the head, and then try to apply that to 10 other heads, rather than attempting to just copy the photo.

    Iruka on
  • NibCromNibCrom Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Your line work is made up of short, scratchy lines. Work up to building long, confident lines. That should come with experience. Keep on drawing! :)

    NibCrom on
  • earthwormadamearthwormadam ancient crust Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yeah what Nib said. From what I understand breaking down the face into series of shapes, which you're doing, is a very good thing.

    I would recommend doing a series of loose scribbly portraits. Your lines look like they're being overanalyzed and in turn have become too rigid and lack life. Keep at it.

    earthwormadam on
  • Ross_CRoss_C Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I really do wish to work from photos, however, I always have this problem when I do so which is where I really, really, want to make the drawing as identical to the photograph as possible and when it's not I just can't seem to finish it. I will try to do so again soon and finish it regardless.

    The best step is to realize that there isn't such a thing as a perfect drawing. You will make mistakes, everyone does. But the point is to keep drawing, and drawing, and even more drawing. Try and learn why a drawing didn't turn out quite as well as you wanted.

    Learn and develop understanding on shapes and forms. You don't even need to look at a art book to develop this skill. Just by looking around at the world around you, you should be able to deconstruct objects into simple generic shapes in your mind. Try it.

    Try and draw with references more. Your mind has the habit of telling you what it THINKS it knows and sees. By using reference, you can build up your understanding and help your mind give you a clearer picture.

    Like already stated, shoot for getting better at realistic forms of people. If you are able to execute realistic drawings well, it makes stylizing and exaggerating the forms into your own style much easier.

    Ross_C on
  • edited March 2010
    Hello again. Thank you all for your feedback.

    Iruka- Thank you for the reference links, I will certainly use them in the future, I already printed some of the references in fact. Could you give me an example and explain about a diagram of the structure of the head? A picture of such would be best.

    NibCrom- Thanks, I will work on building more confident and long lines.

    earthwormadam- Thanks, I will try more loose, scribbly and free portraits, maybe doing them with a set time limit and charcoal (Just for the experience of using a different medium, not sure if using charcoal affects the time.) might also help.

    Ross_C-Thank you for the advice. It would be kept in mind.


    I apologise for the lack of drawings that I am now going to post. Sadly, I have been busy/lazy and not properly committed to drawing lately. I only have been able to complete two drawings that I found worthy of posting here( And even then I do not think they look good.) and here they are, two drawings of Roman busts. I plan to try to draw something other than portraits though I will indeed keep drawing them to practice and to improve them, I might try posting figures or something next time.


    In this first drawing, I am not pleased with the drawing looking almost nothing like the photo which is also the photo that Irma has provided for me. I, also, again, did not put much effort into the drawing of the hair because after drawing the face I found that I was not really like the photograph itself and started losing interest after my changes did not do much to make it look like the photograph so I descended into not putting much effort.

    RomanHomerBust.jpg?t=1268312370

    Head14.jpg?t=1268312371

    There are a lot of aspects of the drawing different from the photograph as well, the eyes, the head being slightly tilted rather than straight on, etc.

    In this second drawing, I was quite pleased with it and how it looked until I found out that when I placed the guidelines/construction lines it was not the same as the photograph so it looked different in terms of that and again, I did not put much effort into the hair, with the next reference drawing of Roman busts I do I would make important note to focus on the hair.

    758605.jpg?t=1268312372

    Head15.jpg?t=1268312372

    Some aspects that are off other than the guidelines making the head look in a different direction are the area from it's right eye downwards, the hair, lips and nose.

    So yes...That is all I have worth showing. The 5 months break slacking spirit has finally caught up to me. (I have/had 5 months of holidays until the Animation Course starts, it starts on 19th of April) This post really was more of asking Iruka what was meant by diagrams of the structure of the head rather than I having much to show. Regardless, thanks for the feedback and I hope to have more than this to show in the future.

    A funny trivia was that I was using this thread as like a timer, for lack of a better word, when it fell off the face of the first page is when I will update and hopefully then I will have an adequate amount of art to show for the time but then it got bumped back up and I got lazy with the time.

    IgneusToastus on
  • winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Keep at it. Eventually you'll start referencing these accurately. Just keep pushing yourself to look at the shapes and line directions. It's freaking hard, but the more you push it, the more information that sinks into your head.

    lol. I came into this thread thinking i'd see some Aboriginal Dreaming story art.

    winter_combat_knight on
  • RNEMESiS42RNEMESiS42 Registered User
    edited March 2010
    Draw exactly what you see. I noticed in both of those last drawings you posted, the noses look like the noses you were drawing in your previous drawings, and nothing like the actually statues. You have to separate your mind from what you perceive (a nose) and try to only look at it for what it is (a pattern of lines). Just draw exactly what you see, don't try to approximate with what your brain thinks it looks like. Say, for the first statue, just crop the picture to the eyes, and try to draw it. Only focus on the contours and lines that it makes, think in shapes.

    RNEMESiS42 on
    my apartment looks upside down from there
    water spirals the wrong way out the sink
  • AMKAMK Registered User
    edited March 2010
    I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this or not, but the way you draw the interior of the ears for the first three of the sketch portraits you did in the beginning really throw me off.

    I mean, I can't complain, I guess, seeing how I'm a cartoonist and details are a myth to me.

    But I don't know, I keep seeing a "Y" sort of shape in there, and it's distracting. Maybe that's just me.

    Other than that, you seem to be getting pretty adept at faces. Try to work at something maybe more solid and clear with the hair.

    AMK on
    Find out what it feels like to have head eaten? Y/N?
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