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Posts

  • ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Goddamnit sloth, I wanted to post that.

    Anyway - I still love you, psi storm. I just wish your animation wasn't so front-loaded, is all.

    Imperfect on
  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    "Reapers were produced from the merc haven at BlizzCon 2007,[9] using a different technique than other terran infantry units. The haven housed up to four reapers. The entire supply could be bought at once, with the supply recovering over time. Reapers could be built very quickly. However, this was later changed with reapers being built at the barracks like other infantry unit.[10]"

    Aww, lame. That sounds like an awesome mechanic to be able to get out a good small sized harassment team quickly.

    Wonder what made them change it up. This seems a neat way to balance your harassing force with your actual army. Perhaps it worked out too well and they needed to make players choose between building an army faster or doing fast econ damage?

    I bet they changed it because it's basically exactly like the zerg's core mechanic with larvae and all.

    Garthor on
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Garthor wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    "Reapers were produced from the merc haven at BlizzCon 2007,[9] using a different technique than other terran infantry units. The haven housed up to four reapers. The entire supply could be bought at once, with the supply recovering over time. Reapers could be built very quickly. However, this was later changed with reapers being built at the barracks like other infantry unit.[10]"

    Aww, lame. That sounds like an awesome mechanic to be able to get out a good small sized harassment team quickly.

    Wonder what made them change it up. This seems a neat way to balance your harassing force with your actual army. Perhaps it worked out too well and they needed to make players choose between building an army faster or doing fast econ damage?

    I bet they changed it because it's basically exactly like the zerg's core mechanic with larvae and all.

    Fair... that actually didn't even occur to me. I'm still not sure that's reason enough to completely remove it from the game, as I imagine it would play quite a bit differently from the Zerg, since the rest of the Terran infantry would have to be built the classic way with barracks.

    BloodySloth on
  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I really don't think Terrans need another early game army building idea that would just make Protoss weep :P

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  • TheSuperWootTheSuperWoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    u mad bro

    He mad cuz we stylin' on him

    TheSuperWoot on
  • DangeriskDangerisk Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Nice game, pretty long.

    Part 1/5
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSYAIkrwTJY

    Some mistakes from both players, but it looks like pretty high level play. The whole game I was thinking about how Protoss used to hide templars in shuttles in SC1 to quickly get them into position while at the same time protecting them from getting sniped. In SC2 the same thing would be useful to hide templars from EMP. It was nice to see the Protoss finally do it near the end of the game.

    I think the Protoss should've put some Collossi into his army composition earlier than he did and he would've had the game. Psistorm isn't nearly as powerful vs infantry as it was in SC1 and I think Collossi should've been the answer for Prtoss. You can see how powerful warp gates are with their warp in. Back in SC1 a Protoss had to go out of the way to spread his warpgates around the map in PvT so he could reinforce from different angles against a Terran push, now you can just send shit wherever you want while your gates are chillin' on some secluded island.

    On the Terran's side, he should've been lifting his CCs from his depleted bases instead of buildling a new CC to mine an already near mined out expansion. Especially since geysers can completely deplete in SC2, so leaving a CC at an old base is useless.

    Dangerisk on
    If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    u mad bro

    He mad cuz we stylin' on him

    we see him trollin'

    we hatin'

    Shadowen on
  • TheSuperWootTheSuperWoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Dangerisk wrote: »
    Nice game, pretty long.

    Part 1/5
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSYAIkrwTJY

    Some mistakes from both players, but it looks like pretty high level play. The whole game I was thinking about how Protoss used to hide templars in shuttles in SC1 to quickly get them into position while at the same time protecting them from getting sniped. In SC2 the same thing would be useful to hide templars from EMP. It was nice to see the Protoss finally do it near the end of the game.

    I think the Protoss should've put some Collossi into his army composition earlier than he did and he would've had the game. Psistorm isn't nearly as powerful vs infantry as it was in SC1 and I think Collossi should've been the answer for Prtoss. You can see how powerful warp gates are with their warp in. Back in SC1 a Protoss had to go out of the way to spread his warpgates around the map in PvT so he could reinforce from different angles against a Terran push, now you can just send shit wherever you want while your gates are chillin' on some secluded island.

    On the Terran's side, he should've been lifting his CCs from his depleted bases instead of buildling a new CC to mine an already near mined out expansion. Especially since geysers can completely deplete in SC2, so leaving a CC at an old base is useless.

    Lately I've been going for HT over colossi a lot more in pvt. I've found that colossi are increasingly harder and harder to defend from a few vikings and HT are much more flexible in their uses. They can storm, feedback banshees if need be, and archons are also pretty good.

    edit: Lol, watching the game. Planetary fortrseses are such a bitch to take down if you don't have aoe units, especially since the repairing workers have lower AI priority than the cannon so you have to manually queue up attacks on every single repairing scv before you can damage the thing.

    TheSuperWoot on
  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Haven't finished watching the game, but I think the new Psi-storm is kind of too powerful. Yeah the old one was more powerful, but the Terran's army didn't consist of MM in that match-up unless they were doing some sort of very unorthodox rush. Plus units clump up more now and that approaching the Terran army doesn't mean instant death from a bunch of tanks like before also add to it.

    Dodge a couple of storms? So what, he has like another four temps in the back that'll destroy your entire army by blanketing half the screen in storm. Seems like a lot of the match-up is going to end up being decided by who gets EMP or storm off correctly, not sure if that's a good thing. And really just not digging how Terran seems so fragile now.

    Streltsy on
    410239-1.png
  • DangeriskDangerisk Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Lately I've been going for HT over colossi a lot more in pvt. I've found that colossi are increasingly harder and harder to defend from a few vikings and HT are much more flexible in their uses. They can storm, feedback banshees if need be, and archons are also pretty good.

    edit: Lol, watching the game. Planetary fortrseses are such a bitch to take down if you don't have aoe units, especially since the repairing workers have lower AI priority than the cannon so you have to manually queue up attacks on every single repairing scv before you can damage the thing.

    It doesn't need to be pure Colossus or pure HT man. He was getting EMP'd so you gotta change your unit composition, but you don't have to be exclusive.

    SC1 late game PvZ you have archons, templars and reavers which might seem like a fuckton of redundant AoE damage but it's the best because it counters like everything.

    Dangerisk on
    If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I wish that Mothership had caught up to his army :(

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  • DangeriskDangerisk Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I wonder if Predy = Predy of the legendary Czech Demolition Squad hmm. Old school SC team.

    Dangerisk on
    If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
  • TheSuperWootTheSuperWoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Dangerisk wrote: »
    Lately I've been going for HT over colossi a lot more in pvt. I've found that colossi are increasingly harder and harder to defend from a few vikings and HT are much more flexible in their uses. They can storm, feedback banshees if need be, and archons are also pretty good.

    edit: Lol, watching the game. Planetary fortrseses are such a bitch to take down if you don't have aoe units, especially since the repairing workers have lower AI priority than the cannon so you have to manually queue up attacks on every single repairing scv before you can damage the thing.

    It doesn't need to be pure Colossus or pure HT man. He was getting EMP'd so you gotta change your unit composition, but you don't have to be exclusive.

    SC1 late game PvZ you have archons, templars and reavers which might seem like a fuckton of redundant AoE damage but it's the best because it counters like everything.

    Yeah, but the problem is if you only have like 1 or 2 colossi they just get owned hard by vikings. Even though the stalker has a range of 6 vikings have a range of 9 so the vikings can sit back behind the main army while m&m gets up in your face. You only need like three or four vikings to start taking out colossi really fast, and most of the time they'll try and snipe your colossi before you even begin the engagement, just like you do with colossi vs. colossi in pvp. I've been thinking about going colossi+blink stalkers for a while now since if the stalkers can actually catch the vikings they destroy them, but I haven't really gotten much of a chance to play this week due to finals. Granted, in most games I still go Colossi first with HTs coming in much later, however there were like three games in a row last week where the terrans I played were really good at microing their vikings around before major encounters that they made me rethink using colossi. It's not even much of a tech switch for the terran, since if you already gotten to robo support bay then they've also probably got a starport up for medivacs by then.

    I'd have to agree with HDStarcraft's analysis of the game that his real problem was going with such a stalker heavy army when his opponent had already shown that he was not going for a banshee focused army. EMP is especially more damaging to stalkers than zealots, as half of a stalkers effective HP is in their shielding, while only a third of a zealot's is in its shield. The gas could have probably have been better spent in sentries and some more HTs. Guardian shield is amazingly strong against a bio army considering it is an efective insta +2 armor upgrade, and the majority of the dps will be coming from the marines. So I'm not saying he should've gone purely HT, but I am saying that going zealot/sentry/immortal/ht seems a lot more viable than zealot/stalker/immortal/ht/colossi like you suggest.

    Unless they change stalkers significantly it seems right now that the only two uses for them in pvt right now. One is if your opponent is gonna go for mass banshees, in which case stalker+phoenix should wipe the floor with any banshee/viking force. The other is to make two or three to hold of reaper harass early on.

    TheSuperWoot on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited March 2010
    P.S. to the guy who said ill never post again, you fail at foresight.
    you should stick to button mashing

    No, this played out exactly as I predicted. Because people like these are predictable due to their huge ego and sense of entitlement.

    Oh well, not like anybody will remember him in ten minutes.

    Echo on
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Streltsy wrote: »
    Haven't finished watching the game, but I think the new Psi-storm is kind of too powerful. Yeah the old one was more powerful, but the Terran's army didn't consist of MM in that match-up unless they were doing some sort of very unorthodox rush. Plus units clump up more now and that approaching the Terran army doesn't mean instant death from a bunch of tanks like before also add to it.

    Dodge a couple of storms? So what, he has like another four temps in the back that'll destroy your entire army by blanketing half the screen in storm. Seems like a lot of the match-up is going to end up being decided by who gets EMP or storm off correctly, not sure if that's a good thing. And really just not digging how Terran seems so fragile now.

    you're supposed to counter his temps and not just spam MMM.
    like predy did, ghosts sniped a bunch of templars dead in seconds.
    i'm sure some round the back ravens/banshees can sort them out quickly as well.

    evilthecat on
    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • TheSuperWootTheSuperWoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Also, I wouldn't at all be surprised if stalkers are considerably tweaked sometime in the coming patches, as right now it seems like the majority of people either think they're useless, or are just trying to use them like goons like that HDstarcraft match. I wouldn't go this far, but Idra says that stalkers do negative damage to marines, and if you shoot a marine you actually heal it :rotate:. I mean, they're supposed to be glass cannon harassment units, with their supposed superior mobility and all, but their dps is so horrible that in most cases you're probably better of spending your minerals and gas on something else.

    TheSuperWoot on
  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Stalkers right now seem only useful early PvT to prevent hellion harass.

    Also, I can't remember which stream, but watching one of TL's featured Protoss players and in his game he got rushed by zerglings and nothing but zerglings. It was so hilarious because Zerg failed so horribly.

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  • DangeriskDangerisk Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yeah, but the problem is if you only have like 1 or 2 colossi they just get owned hard by vikings. Even though the stalker has a range of 6 vikings have a range of 9 so the vikings can sit back behind the main army while m&m gets up in your face. You only need like three or four vikings to start taking out colossi really fast, and most of the time they'll try and snipe your colossi before you even begin the engagement, just like you do with colossi vs. colossi in pvp. I've been thinking about going colossi+blink stalkers for a while now since if the stalkers can actually catch the vikings they destroy them, but I haven't really gotten much of a chance to play this week due to finals. Granted, in most games I still go Colossi first with HTs coming in much later, however there were like three games in a row last week where the terrans I played were really good at microing their vikings around before major encounters that they made me rethink using colossi. It's not even much of a tech switch for the terran, since if you already gotten to robo support bay then they've also probably got a starport up for medivacs by then.

    There's gonna be that game changing first battle with the Collosi though. Even if he can have Vikings out in the next 2 minutes, in the meantime you can do a lot of damage and that can win you the game or if not it can give you the advantage for the rest of it.

    Once he adapts you can change your unit composition again.

    Dangerisk on
    If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    evilthecat wrote: »
    you're supposed to counter his temps and not just spam MMM.
    like predy did, ghosts sniped a bunch of templars dead in seconds.
    i'm sure some round the back ravens/banshees can sort them out quickly as well.

    Yeah I just finished watching that, and I felt pretty disgusted at those storms. Predy seemed to be on top of trying to dodge those storms, but even with around only three high temps that just doesn't seem like a realistic thing to do. Seems like half the engagments he dodged 1-2 storms, emped the whole protoss army, killed the army, only to have his entire force killed as 3 more temps come from the back to blow their load.

    Obviously there's a way around it, what I'm saying is I just can't appreciate watching storms in TvP. And the match being decided by ghosts/temps might not be a great thing either.

    I also don't have the beta though, so you know, I could just be wrong.

    Streltsy on
    410239-1.png
  • TheSuperWootTheSuperWoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Aegis wrote: »
    Stalkers right now seem only useful early PvT to prevent hellion harass.

    Also, I can't remember which stream, but watching one of TL's featured Protoss players and in his game he got rushed by zerglings and nothing but zerglings. It was so hilarious because Zerg failed so horribly.

    Yeah they're pretty good at that too. Heh, someone tried to do that to me. He got like a 10 pool and just kept pumping lings. I just got a few sentries and kept walling in part of his army then killing it off while I teched to colossus, then I just pushed out and won. Weirdest strat I had someone pull on me was on Saturday though. He just built two reactore'd barracks then once he had ~10 marines he took all his scvs and attacked my base while he also attempted to land his barracks inside my base. Suffice to say a few well placed force fields made quick work of his army.

    TheSuperWoot on
  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Flash vs. Sea currently on live broadcast on TL.net in a SWL tourney (Starcraft 1 that is).

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  • DangeriskDangerisk Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OH yeah it was also weird that that Protoss didn't have any Sentries. Like just one Sentry with the shield thing looks like it could make an appreciable difference against a big MM army.

    Dangerisk on
    If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    What the hell am I seeing? Both Flash and Sea are going Wraith o_O

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  • DangeriskDangerisk Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Not too uncommon in TvT :P

    Dangerisk on
    If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
  • TheSuperWootTheSuperWoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Dangerisk wrote: »
    Yeah, but the problem is if you only have like 1 or 2 colossi they just get owned hard by vikings. Even though the stalker has a range of 6 vikings have a range of 9 so the vikings can sit back behind the main army while m&m gets up in your face. You only need like three or four vikings to start taking out colossi really fast, and most of the time they'll try and snipe your colossi before you even begin the engagement, just like you do with colossi vs. colossi in pvp. I've been thinking about going colossi+blink stalkers for a while now since if the stalkers can actually catch the vikings they destroy them, but I haven't really gotten much of a chance to play this week due to finals. Granted, in most games I still go Colossi first with HTs coming in much later, however there were like three games in a row last week where the terrans I played were really good at microing their vikings around before major encounters that they made me rethink using colossi. It's not even much of a tech switch for the terran, since if you already gotten to robo support bay then they've also probably got a starport up for medivacs by then.

    There's gonna be that game changing first battle with the Collosi though. Even if he can have Vikings out in the next 2 minutes, in the meantime you can do a lot of damage and that can win you the game or if not it can give you the advantage for the rest of it.

    Once he adapts you can change your unit composition again.

    Look at you theorycraft :P. Problem is a lot of dudes just build two vikings before they even see a colossus get built. It even happened in that casted game, he had two vikings just flying before predy even got a robo support bay, then he eventually just landed them at the 9'oclock and I assume they died at some random point in the game.

    edit: yeah just watched that part of the replay again. By the time he builds his two vikings he has had a constant watch of what the protoss is building, and despite him not even seeing a support bay up through a few scans and his drop in predy's main, he goes ahead and just builds two vikings to insure he won't be surprised by anything like the one first attack you're talking about.

    TheSuperWoot on
  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I thought wraiths were possibly the worst unit to build as terran outside of extremely rare situations, or is TvT one of those?

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  • DangeriskDangerisk Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Look at you theorycraft :P.

    Eh it's pretty standard SC. Wait for Reavers to pop - move out. Wait for Defilers to pop - move out. Just timing your attacks around a key unit.

    Dangerisk on
    If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
  • TheSuperWootTheSuperWoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Dangerisk wrote: »
    Look at you theorycraft :P.

    Eh it's pretty standard SC. Wait for Reavers to pop - move out. Wait for Defilers to pop - move out. Just timing your attacks around a key unit.

    Yeah but here it's like he has a science vessel already waiting for your defiler, and the moment it leaves your nat it gets irradiated.

    edit: I mean, I'm sure there's a timing window where you could punish someone for getting two early vikings to preemtively kill your colossi, but with the amount of changes happening every week I'd rather just try a new strat then try and figure out that specific window which could easily change next week or the week after.

    TheSuperWoot on
  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I'm not really thrilled on colossi. Every time I've seen them come on the field they've seemed to just utterly melt while doing not all that much damage.

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  • DangeriskDangerisk Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Science vessels don't change the fact that zerg needs defilers.

    I mean like EMP obviously hasn't stopped you from making HTs :P

    Dangerisk on
    If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be DANGERISK.
  • TheSuperWootTheSuperWoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Dangerisk wrote: »
    Science vessels don't change the fact that zerg needs defilers.

    I mean like EMP obviously hasn't stopped you from making HTs :P

    Hehehe, I usually wait till they emp to bring my HTs out from the back. And I don't know if the science vessel/defiler analogy is very applicable, considering it's equally easy to lose a science vessel to scourge as it is for your vessel to irradiate a defiler. It's real easy for the vikings to kill some colossi and get away unharmed. Granted, I haven't seriously played the last two weeks because of damn finals, and with the way the metagame is evolving so fast right now my view of the it might not be the best. After this Friday though, gonna be a spring break filled with the crafting of stars.

    TheSuperWoot on
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I gotta agree with Woot on this, Collisi go down fast to air. I'm starting to understand why high level toss players go HT with psi storm.

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  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I wonder whether there'd be any substantial balance issues if they removed the Colossi's vulnerability to air. For it to have such a unique weakness, you'd expect it to be a lot heftier than it currently is.

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  • TheSuperWootTheSuperWoot Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Unless they decreased the damage or removed the range upgrade it would definitely be OP without the vulnerability to air. There's a reason why people get corruptors and Vikings preemtively, and it's because colossi dominate basically everything else on the ground, except tanks.

    TheSuperWoot on
  • ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Colossi are good in a couple situations:

    1. In groups of 3 (3 colossi shots will one-hit kill most ground units except other massives like thors/ultras)
    2. In chokepoints (units can't get the surround)
    3. Against workers (walk them up the cliff and blast away) (especially against terrans because all their defense is usually concentrated at their wall)

    It's doubly so where both 1 and 2 are true since every shot the colossi take will kill all the units at the front of the enemy line and they'll spend more time walking up new units than they will actually shooting back at the colossi. Ramps, inside enemy bases, or even artificial chokes made with 2-4 sentry forcefields will have this effect.

    They're also gamebreakers in the early-midgame - if you can get 2 of them out before any enemies can make serious investments into air units they are fucked. It's risky since if you're playing against someone who's teching straight for air (mutas/vikings/those protoss void ray things) you'll be fucked instead, but you can build observers while the robo facility is going up to get intel and switch over to immortals if they are.

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  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OMG OMG OMG

    I tried to log into Battle.net for my daily disappointment...
    The site is down for maintenance. We'll be back soon!
    현재 웹사이트 점검 중입니다. 이용에 불편을 드려 대단히 죄송합니다.
    El sitio se encuentra en mantenimiento y no está disponible. ¡Regresaremos pronto!
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    Suspense!

    Apogee on
    8R7BtLw.png
  • NeurotikaNeurotika Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Isn't Tuesday the normal Blizzard patch/maintenece day? Maybe this is normal?

    Neurotika on
  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Aw. That would burst my bubble.

    /tear

    Apogee on
    8R7BtLw.png
  • NeurotikaNeurotika Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    /comfort

    I understand, I want that sweet, sweet beta juice as well.

    /tear

    Neurotika on
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Guys, this game is so good.

    Sooooo good.

    Uselesswarrior on
    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
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