So they're bringing back "The Champions"? Does anyone know who's in it, because I recognize none of those people?
I'd heard they were all newly-created Fifty States people, but I might be wrong.
EDIT: wow, Heroes for Hire with a Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane-style cover, Humbug possibly helping Miek and Co and the Agents of Atlas appearing in Marvel Adventures: The Avengers??
Oh gawd, Lindy Reynolds 'dies' again?
Still, Mighty Ant-Man goodness! And proper Thor again, at last, plus Deadpool and Squirrel Girl face off!
I'm always surprised that Marvel is continuing to publish all that Dabel Brothers stuff. I mean, besides Anita Blake, the rest of the line sells like shit. Then again, the Marvel Adventures line isn't exactly raking in the cash either.
Am I the only one filled with excitement for the Deadpool and GLI one shot?
Anyone who doesn't buy the GLI/Deadpool Summer Fun Spectacular is clearly some kind of soulless undead, and should have their head chopped off, and their neck stump stuffed with garlic. It's the only way.
And wwtMask, I think Marvel's counting on bookstores and libraries to make the Dabel Bros. stuff profitable. Most of the Marvel Adventures stuff sells in the news stand and bookstore market. Hell, Runaways and Spider-Girl survive almost solely because their digests sell so well.
Besides, I think there's something tragically fascinating about this time-skipped Captain Marvel: it seems like he "can't" die now, since he has to die in the future, but we all know that time doesn't work that way in Marvel. If Captain Marvel dies 'now', it just splits off a new timeline (it's like the Age of Apocalypse....almost exactly so, actually). The paradox disapears (Marvel doesn't have grandfather paradoxes) and we get a new timeline.
It's as fascinating as the Superman in the Legion of Super Heroes cartoon, if fascinating is a synonym for lame.
Wow, looking at the Champions alternate covers I find it amusing (but sensible given the other aspects of the team) that the woman with black hair can apparently remove the big red C on her top to expose cleavage. Nice touch.
Anyone who doesn't buy the GLI/Deadpool Summer Fun Spectacular is clearly some kind of soulless undead, and should have their head chopped off, and their neck stump stuffed with garlic. It's the only way.
And wwtMask, I think Marvel's counting on bookstores and libraries to make the Dabel Bros. stuff profitable. Most of the Marvel Adventures stuff sells in the news stand and bookstore market. Hell, Runaways and Spider-Girl survive almost solely because their digests sell so well.
I guess that makes sense. Those two-in-one magazines and digests have to be selling for them to keep publishing them. It does seem sorta weird to put money into a format that most of the audience doesn't buy, though.
Why do people knock frontline so much? I haven't had the chance to read any of it.
I think the main reason is the issue where the stupid bitch tells Cap he doesn't know anything about America because, among other things, he doesn't waste hours of his life watching stupid videos on YouTube or reading Tony Stark's MySpace. (This paraphrase is very close to what was actually said.)
And then Cap just sits there at a loss for words.
That's not even remotely a fair paraphrase.
How is that you and others don't get her point? It isn't that Cap didn't go to NASCAR or use YouTube, it's that he had no idea what they were. It's that he had nothing to do with America. He had this ridiculous, misogynist and absurd image of America where superpowered vigilantes got to fly around, kill people and cause millions in damage, all without being held accountable for their actions.
Then, to top it off, he showed that he had no respect for the chain of command, no respect for the civil process, no respect for the criminal justice system, and most of all no respect for the voters.
Stop playing it like she said "LOL You don't know YouTube?"
Why do people knock frontline so much? I haven't had the chance to read any of it.
I think the main reason is the issue where the stupid bitch tells Cap he doesn't know anything about America because, among other things, he doesn't waste hours of his life watching stupid videos on YouTube or reading Tony Stark's MySpace. (This paraphrase is very close to what was actually said.)
And then Cap just sits there at a loss for words.
That's not even remotely a fair paraphrase.
How is that you and others don't get her point? It isn't that Cap didn't go to NASCAR or use YouTube, it's that he had no idea what they were. It's that he had nothing to do with America. He had this ridiculous, misogynist and absurd image of America where superpowered vigilantes got to fly around, kill people and cause millions in damage, all without being held accountable for their actions.
Then, to top it off, he showed that he had no respect for the chain of command, no respect for the civil process, no respect for the criminal justice system, and most of all no respect for the voters.
Stop playing it like she said "LOL You don't know YouTube?"
Fine... as long as you get your head out of your ass and stop acting like there isn't a completely opposite side to that and people have a right to be upset at the way she, and the entire end of Civil War, was a complete misrepresentation of everything Captain America stands for.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Guys, guys, we're missing the most important point here: Sally Floyd is a retard. And both she and Ben Urich have, between the two of them, a thimble-ful of journalistic integrity.
Why do people knock frontline so much? I haven't had the chance to read any of it.
I think the main reason is the issue where the stupid bitch tells Cap he doesn't know anything about America because, among other things, he doesn't waste hours of his life watching stupid videos on YouTube or reading Tony Stark's MySpace. (This paraphrase is very close to what was actually said.)
And then Cap just sits there at a loss for words.
That's not even remotely a fair paraphrase.
How is that you and others don't get her point? It isn't that Cap didn't go to NASCAR or use YouTube, it's that he had no idea what they were. It's that he had nothing to do with America. He had this ridiculous, misogynist and absurd image of America where superpowered vigilantes got to fly around, kill people and cause millions in damage, all without being held accountable for their actions.
Then, to top it off, he showed that he had no respect for the chain of command, no respect for the civil process, no respect for the criminal justice system, and most of all no respect for the voters.
Stop playing it like she said "LOL You don't know YouTube?"
Fine... as long as you get your head out of your ass and stop acting like there isn't a completely opposite side to that and people have a right to be upset at the way she, and the entire end of Civil War, was a complete misrepresentation of everything Captain America stands for.
Oh there's clearly an opposite side, but just because a side exists it doesn't make it right.
But let's assume it's right: that's the character! Characters ARE what they're written. This isn't a real person. If they wrote him raping puppies, then that's what Captain America did. Period.
They're just trying to write interesting stories that people will want to buy. They're not trying to give you some unchanging icon.
Frankly though, I think this is entirely consistent with Captain America: in fact, he has historically been defined by his refusal to embrace 'modern' ethics as opposed to the ethics he grew up with. He's refused to equivocate, and everyone praised him for it.
Now, when it's pointed out to you that the same refusal to consider change has left him detached from actual America, you complain?
Are you telling me that in some point in the past, Captain America was in touch with American culture (except during WWII)? Are you telling me that he wasn't ALWAYS portrayed as being disconnected?
The only difference now is that his disconnect - his love of criminal vigilantiism - is more problematic because SHRA makes criminal vigilantiism much more problematic. Before, the cops let these people flout the law, but under SHRA they weren't going to let it go.
OMEGA FLIGHT #4
The Story: OMEGA FLIGHT VS. THE WRECKING CREW! Plus: the TRUE VILLAINS ARE REVEALED!
What the hell kind of a solicit is that? Every other book seems to have a paragraph or two, and OF's is two short sentences? This helps sell the title how?
Guys, guys, we're missing the most important point here: Sally Floyd is a retard. And both she and Ben Urich have, between the two of them, a thimble-ful of journalistic integrity.
Oh that's true, without a doubt. Her point to Captain America was correct, but her character has been consistently portrayed as being functionally retarded, and so that's who she is. Just like Captain America, she is as she is written.
So yes, they both lack journalistic integrity. Yes, she's an idiot.
Are you telling me that in some point in the past, Captain America was in touch with American culture (except during WWII)? Are you telling me that he wasn't ALWAYS portrayed as being disconnected?
The only difference now is that his disconnect - his love of criminal vigilantiism - is more problematic because SHRA makes criminal vigilantiism much more problematic. Before, the cops let these people flout the law, but under SHRA they weren't going to let it go.
Why does something have to be based on American culture to be American? Frankly, I don't feel we have much of a culture (as Sally floyd so clearly illustrated in that diatribe). Why can't Captain America be based upon the ideals? And before you start, I don't mean laws... since when have laws ever been ideallic? I'm talking about freedom, liberty, justice, etc... see, at heart, Cap is a really simple guy. He holds those things this nation was founded on as ideals worth fighting for.
There, done. No more! We can now return to the fact that Sally and Ben had a story people deserved to know about with regards to Iron Man and they just brushed it under the rug because they thought he was right.
Now that is a fine illustration of our current media.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
There, done. No more! We can now return to the fact that Sally and Ben had a story people deserved to know about with regards to Iron Man and they just brushed it under the rug because they thought he was right.
Now that is a fine illustration of our current media.
I'll let the other point go, and I generally agree w/ you regarding the media.
I do wonder though whether Marvel could have had the writing acumen to handle the outcome of Sally and Ben going public. I mean, you're talking extensive networks of legal and social reactions. Given their poor ability to communicate social trends (as evinced by how surprised so many readers were that Marvel's America would so overwhelmingly support SHRA) and write about law (as evinced by New Avengers for example) I don't think they could have pulled it off.
There, done. No more! We can now return to the fact that Sally and Ben had a story people deserved to know about with regards to Iron Man and they just brushed it under the rug because they thought he was right.
Now that is a fine illustration of our current media.
I'll let the other point go, and I generally agree w/ you regarding the media.
I do wonder though whether Marvel could have had the writing acumen to handle the outcome of Sally and Ben going public. I mean, you're talking extensive networks of legal and social reactions. Given their poor ability to communicate social trends (as evinced by how surprised so many readers were that Marvel's America would so overwhelmingly support SHRA) and write about law (as evinced by New Avengers for example) I don't think they could have pulled it off.
I don't think it's possible for mainstream comics to address complex issues without coming off as either ham-fisted, uninformed, or preachy. The fan reaction to the CW is pretty much because half the writers doing CW tie-ins let their personal feelings on the SHRA override thei ability to follow what we assumed would be the guideline for the event: that neither side be presented as the "bad" guy.
Why do people knock frontline so much? I haven't had the chance to read any of it.
I think the main reason is the issue where the stupid bitch tells Cap he doesn't know anything about America because, among other things, he doesn't waste hours of his life watching stupid videos on YouTube or reading Tony Stark's MySpace. (This paraphrase is very close to what was actually said.)
And then Cap just sits there at a loss for words.
That's not even remotely a fair paraphrase.
How is that you and others don't get her point? It isn't that Cap didn't go to NASCAR or use YouTube, it's that he had no idea what they were. It's that he had nothing to do with America. He had this ridiculous, misogynist and absurd image of America where superpowered vigilantes got to fly around, kill people and cause millions in damage, all without being held accountable for their actions.
Then, to top it off, he showed that he had no respect for the chain of command, no respect for the civil process, no respect for the criminal justice system, and most of all no respect for the voters.
Stop playing it like she said "LOL You don't know YouTube?"
You should go read the parody of this comic, done by the guy who made all the other parodies (I don't remember the name)
It calls her whole point, and everything she refers to, as 'cultural flotsam', and it's correct. Nothing she mentioned is involved with principles, ethics, law, or anything else. She has no idea what is a lasting ideal or principle, and what is a fad. Might as well ask him about beanie babies, or cabbage patch dolls, or the Wii. None of it's relevant. There are plenty of ACTUAL people who have no idea what those are, who still manage to understand what America is about.
You should go read the parody of this comic, done by the guy who made all the other parodies (I don't remember the name)
NOTE: I didn't bring this back up.
I did read the parodies, and they're funny.
It calls her whole point, and everything she refers to, as 'cultural flotsam', and it's correct.
No, it's wrong. What you don't get is that she wasn't saying that USA=YouTube or any crap like that. Her point was that Captain America wasn't fighting a war about Americans' rights: he was fighting a war about the rights of costumed criminals to parade around like they're cops without any respect for the criminal justice system, the civil process, or the rule of law.
Her point was that the only people Captain American was concerned with were his vigilante buddies. If he was really concerned with the American people, he'd respect their laws and their wishes.
Nothing she mentioned is involved with principles, ethics, law, or anything else. She has no idea what is a lasting ideal or principle, and what is a fad.
I don't understand how you can misunderstand writing this severely: she wasn't SUPPOSED to be talking about a lasting principle. She was talking about Rogers' inability to see past his mask. She wasn't saying YouTube or NASCAR were more important than civil rights. What she was saying was that the stuff Rogers was fighting for wasn't America. He wasn't fighting for Americans, and he certainly wasn't fighting for American ideals (unless "American ideals" now includes armed vigilantism). He was fighting for his masked buddies "rights" to fight crime the way they wanted, without training and without accountability.
He was fighting for "might makes right": he wanted to change the law, and instead of respecting the democratic system, instead of respecting democracy and the electorate, instead of respecting the civil process, he chose to lead an armed rebellion against the legal law enforcement officers of this nation. As a cost of his selfish actions, he caused or contributed to the deaths of dozens of innocent, unpowered Americans.
Might as well ask him about beanie babies, or cabbage patch dolls, or the Wii. None of it's relevant. There are plenty of ACTUAL people who have no idea what those are, who still manage to understand what America is about.
That's true, and those people aren't out there claiming to be above the law. If they did, we'd arrest them when they violated the law. Rogers thought that he was permitted to act above the law when he disagreed with it. He was a criminal, and he didn't want to admit it. He wanted to parade around in spandex and masks without respect for our nations laws, our peoples' wishes, etc.
When our country was founded, one of the proudest moments was the first time power was peacefully transferred from one president to another. It was the first time rule of a nation passed peacefully between two rulers (except through familial succession). Rogers didn't respect that the point of America is that we can solve our disputes through reason.
Ah, mattharvest preaching at us about how the SHRA is right and those dirty un-American folks fighting it are wrong.
Anyway, most folks knew the SHRA was wrong from day one for one simple reason. Cap was against it. And in Marvel, at least for the last 30 something years, the one true constant in the universe is that when it comes to moral issues, Captain America is always right.
When our country was founded, one of the proudest moments was the first time power was peacefully transferred from one president to another. It was the first time rule of a nation passed peacefully between two rulers (except through familial succession). Rogers didn't respect that the point of America is that we can solve our disputes through reason.
Of course, America was also founded by violent action taken against laws that were seen to be wrong.
When our country was founded, one of the proudest moments was the first time power was peacefully transferred from one president to another. It was the first time rule of a nation passed peacefully between two rulers (except through familial succession).
Are you completely and utterly out of your mind? America did not create the concept of Democracy, nor is it the first time a nation changed hands without bloodshed or familial succession. You might want to check out a little collection of nations that are now referred to collectively as "Ancient Greece", or the Most Serene Republic of Venice, or many other nations who were electing rulers before America was even discovered (by Europeans that is, I'm sure the native peoples already living there had a fairly clear idea that it existed).
And as I understand it, if it wasn't for American's rebelling against what they considered to be unjust laws and government, you would all still be a colony of the British Empire. But despite how proud you clearly are of your countrys history, you apparently are willing to gloss over the areas of that history which don't support your arguments. Bottom line is, if a rebellion succeeds they are heros, whereas if it fails they are criminals. That's how it's always worked, and that's how it worked in Civil War.
Seriously, I know I haven't been around for long but I'm already tired of your long, insulting, aggressive and arrogant posts and your insistance on restarting the same arguments over and over again. Just let it go man.
When our country was founded, one of the proudest moments was the first time power was peacefully transferred from one president to another. It was the first time rule of a nation passed peacefully between two rulers (except through familial succession). Rogers didn't respect that the point of America is that we can solve our disputes through reason.
Of course, America was also founded by violent action taken against laws that were seen to be wrong.
Yeah, in a government where (a) there was no elected government, (b) no electorate-voted laws, (c) no mechanism to change the government, etc.
When our country was founded, one of the proudest moments was the first time power was peacefully transferred from one president to another. It was the first time rule of a nation passed peacefully between two rulers (except through familial succession). Rogers didn't respect that the point of America is that we can solve our disputes through reason.
Of course, America was also founded by violent action taken against laws that were seen to be wrong.
Yeah, in a government where (a) there was no elected government, (b) no electorate-voted laws, (c) no mechanism to change the government, etc.
You think there's no difference?
And all of those things were present when Hitler rose to power. Hey, that isn't relevent either.
Captain America is an ideal given form. You can't use the same logic that you would use on the Punisher. It doesn't work (this is where the suspension of disbelief comes in).
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Posts
You're thinking of Corsair.
There wasn't even a Spider-Man in AoA.
Man, I really need another job to support my Marvel habit...
There was a Peter Parker.
EDIT: wow, Heroes for Hire with a Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane-style cover, Humbug possibly helping Miek and Co and the Agents of Atlas appearing in Marvel Adventures: The Avengers??
Oh gawd, Lindy Reynolds 'dies' again?
Still, Mighty Ant-Man goodness! And proper Thor again, at last, plus Deadpool and Squirrel Girl face off!
Am I the only one filled with excitement for the Deadpool and GLI one shot?
And wwtMask, I think Marvel's counting on bookstores and libraries to make the Dabel Bros. stuff profitable. Most of the Marvel Adventures stuff sells in the news stand and bookstore market. Hell, Runaways and Spider-Girl survive almost solely because their digests sell so well.
Tumblr Twitter
Oh, Great Lakes Initiative.
Is Slott writing it?
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
It's as fascinating as the Superman in the Legion of Super Heroes cartoon, if fascinating is a synonym for lame.
Wow, looking at the Champions alternate covers I find it amusing (but sensible given the other aspects of the team) that the woman with black hair can apparently remove the big red C on her top to expose cleavage. Nice touch.
I guess that makes sense. Those two-in-one magazines and digests have to be selling for them to keep publishing them. It does seem sorta weird to put money into a format that most of the audience doesn't buy, though.
Tumblr Twitter
Not at $3.99 an issue. Science Jesus takes precedence.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
That's not even remotely a fair paraphrase.
How is that you and others don't get her point? It isn't that Cap didn't go to NASCAR or use YouTube, it's that he had no idea what they were. It's that he had nothing to do with America. He had this ridiculous, misogynist and absurd image of America where superpowered vigilantes got to fly around, kill people and cause millions in damage, all without being held accountable for their actions.
Then, to top it off, he showed that he had no respect for the chain of command, no respect for the civil process, no respect for the criminal justice system, and most of all no respect for the voters.
Stop playing it like she said "LOL You don't know YouTube?"
Fine... as long as you get your head out of your ass and stop acting like there isn't a completely opposite side to that and people have a right to be upset at the way she, and the entire end of Civil War, was a complete misrepresentation of everything Captain America stands for.
my only exposure to him are my daredevil trades.
He just took the biggest story in the MU and decided not to run it because... Well I'm really not sure why. At least he made Iron Man cry.
Oh there's clearly an opposite side, but just because a side exists it doesn't make it right.
But let's assume it's right: that's the character! Characters ARE what they're written. This isn't a real person. If they wrote him raping puppies, then that's what Captain America did. Period.
They're just trying to write interesting stories that people will want to buy. They're not trying to give you some unchanging icon.
Frankly though, I think this is entirely consistent with Captain America: in fact, he has historically been defined by his refusal to embrace 'modern' ethics as opposed to the ethics he grew up with. He's refused to equivocate, and everyone praised him for it.
Now, when it's pointed out to you that the same refusal to consider change has left him detached from actual America, you complain?
Are you telling me that in some point in the past, Captain America was in touch with American culture (except during WWII)? Are you telling me that he wasn't ALWAYS portrayed as being disconnected?
The only difference now is that his disconnect - his love of criminal vigilantiism - is more problematic because SHRA makes criminal vigilantiism much more problematic. Before, the cops let these people flout the law, but under SHRA they weren't going to let it go.
The Story: OMEGA FLIGHT VS. THE WRECKING CREW! Plus: the TRUE VILLAINS ARE REVEALED!
What the hell kind of a solicit is that? Every other book seems to have a paragraph or two, and OF's is two short sentences? This helps sell the title how?
Oh that's true, without a doubt. Her point to Captain America was correct, but her character has been consistently portrayed as being functionally retarded, and so that's who she is. Just like Captain America, she is as she is written.
So yes, they both lack journalistic integrity. Yes, she's an idiot.
Doesn't make her wrong there.
Why does something have to be based on American culture to be American? Frankly, I don't feel we have much of a culture (as Sally floyd so clearly illustrated in that diatribe). Why can't Captain America be based upon the ideals? And before you start, I don't mean laws... since when have laws ever been ideallic? I'm talking about freedom, liberty, justice, etc... see, at heart, Cap is a really simple guy. He holds those things this nation was founded on as ideals worth fighting for.
There, done. No more! We can now return to the fact that Sally and Ben had a story people deserved to know about with regards to Iron Man and they just brushed it under the rug because they thought he was right.
Now that is a fine illustration of our current media.
Sure she's meant to be poorly written but there wasn't anything clever or awesome about it
Yeah, that was pretty dumb. I fucking hate her.
EDIT 2: HA HA! THE QUOTE BUTTON IS NOT THE EDIT BUTTON!
I'll let the other point go, and I generally agree w/ you regarding the media.
I do wonder though whether Marvel could have had the writing acumen to handle the outcome of Sally and Ben going public. I mean, you're talking extensive networks of legal and social reactions. Given their poor ability to communicate social trends (as evinced by how surprised so many readers were that Marvel's America would so overwhelmingly support SHRA) and write about law (as evinced by New Avengers for example) I don't think they could have pulled it off.
I don't think it's possible for mainstream comics to address complex issues without coming off as either ham-fisted, uninformed, or preachy. The fan reaction to the CW is pretty much because half the writers doing CW tie-ins let their personal feelings on the SHRA override thei ability to follow what we assumed would be the guideline for the event: that neither side be presented as the "bad" guy.
That's an arm?
You should go read the parody of this comic, done by the guy who made all the other parodies (I don't remember the name)
It calls her whole point, and everything she refers to, as 'cultural flotsam', and it's correct. Nothing she mentioned is involved with principles, ethics, law, or anything else. She has no idea what is a lasting ideal or principle, and what is a fad. Might as well ask him about beanie babies, or cabbage patch dolls, or the Wii. None of it's relevant. There are plenty of ACTUAL people who have no idea what those are, who still manage to understand what America is about.
NOTE: I didn't bring this back up.
I did read the parodies, and they're funny.
No, it's wrong. What you don't get is that she wasn't saying that USA=YouTube or any crap like that. Her point was that Captain America wasn't fighting a war about Americans' rights: he was fighting a war about the rights of costumed criminals to parade around like they're cops without any respect for the criminal justice system, the civil process, or the rule of law.
Her point was that the only people Captain American was concerned with were his vigilante buddies. If he was really concerned with the American people, he'd respect their laws and their wishes.
I don't understand how you can misunderstand writing this severely: she wasn't SUPPOSED to be talking about a lasting principle. She was talking about Rogers' inability to see past his mask. She wasn't saying YouTube or NASCAR were more important than civil rights. What she was saying was that the stuff Rogers was fighting for wasn't America. He wasn't fighting for Americans, and he certainly wasn't fighting for American ideals (unless "American ideals" now includes armed vigilantism). He was fighting for his masked buddies "rights" to fight crime the way they wanted, without training and without accountability.
He was fighting for "might makes right": he wanted to change the law, and instead of respecting the democratic system, instead of respecting democracy and the electorate, instead of respecting the civil process, he chose to lead an armed rebellion against the legal law enforcement officers of this nation. As a cost of his selfish actions, he caused or contributed to the deaths of dozens of innocent, unpowered Americans.
That's true, and those people aren't out there claiming to be above the law. If they did, we'd arrest them when they violated the law. Rogers thought that he was permitted to act above the law when he disagreed with it. He was a criminal, and he didn't want to admit it. He wanted to parade around in spandex and masks without respect for our nations laws, our peoples' wishes, etc.
When our country was founded, one of the proudest moments was the first time power was peacefully transferred from one president to another. It was the first time rule of a nation passed peacefully between two rulers (except through familial succession). Rogers didn't respect that the point of America is that we can solve our disputes through reason.
Anyway, most folks knew the SHRA was wrong from day one for one simple reason. Cap was against it. And in Marvel, at least for the last 30 something years, the one true constant in the universe is that when it comes to moral issues, Captain America is always right.
Of course, America was also founded by violent action taken against laws that were seen to be wrong.
Are you completely and utterly out of your mind? America did not create the concept of Democracy, nor is it the first time a nation changed hands without bloodshed or familial succession. You might want to check out a little collection of nations that are now referred to collectively as "Ancient Greece", or the Most Serene Republic of Venice, or many other nations who were electing rulers before America was even discovered (by Europeans that is, I'm sure the native peoples already living there had a fairly clear idea that it existed).
And as I understand it, if it wasn't for American's rebelling against what they considered to be unjust laws and government, you would all still be a colony of the British Empire. But despite how proud you clearly are of your countrys history, you apparently are willing to gloss over the areas of that history which don't support your arguments. Bottom line is, if a rebellion succeeds they are heros, whereas if it fails they are criminals. That's how it's always worked, and that's how it worked in Civil War.
Seriously, I know I haven't been around for long but I'm already tired of your long, insulting, aggressive and arrogant posts and your insistance on restarting the same arguments over and over again. Just let it go man.
Yeah, in a government where (a) there was no elected government, (b) no electorate-voted laws, (c) no mechanism to change the government, etc.
You think there's no difference?
And all of those things were present when Hitler rose to power. Hey, that isn't relevent either.
Captain America is an ideal given form. You can't use the same logic that you would use on the Punisher. It doesn't work (this is where the suspension of disbelief comes in).