Here's my problem with the whole "when a black guy commits a crime, it looks bad on all black people, but white people don't have the same problem" argument: When an idiot white guy like Imus or those in the Georgia school board does something racist, then all of a sudden OMG ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST, WE HAVEN'T MADE AND PROGRESS!.
If you fail to see the hypocrisy in that, than next time I post, I'll use smaller words.
I want to add to what Nickle said with specific items dealing with none other than the "Reverend" Al Sharpton. We all know he's sort of the go-to person to pull the race card. If someone is going to do it, it's going to be him. The problem is that some people actually listen to him and I have no idea why! Here's some interesting tidbits about Sharpton.
1987: Sharpton spreads the incendiary Tawana Brawley hoax, insisting heatedly that a 15-year-old black girl was abducted, raped, and smeared with feces by a group of white men. He singles out Steve Pagones, a young prosecutor. Pagones is wholly innocent -- the crime never occurred -- but Sharpton taunts him: "If we're lying, sue us, so we can . . . prove you did it." Pagones does sue, and eventually wins a $345,000 verdict for defamation. To this day, Sharpton refuses to recant his unspeakable slander or to apologize for his role in the odious affair.
1991: A Hasidic Jewish driver in Brooklyn's Crown Heights section accidentally kills Gavin Cato, a 7-year-old black child, and antisemitic riots erupt. Sharpton races to pour gasoline on the fire. At Gavin's funeral he rails against the "diamond merchants" -- code for Jews -- with "the blood of innocent babies" on their hands. He mobilizes hundreds of demonstrators to march through the Jewish neighborhood, chanting, "No justice, no peace." A rabbinical student, Yankel Rosenbaum, is surrounded by a mob shouting "Kill the Jews!" and stabbed to death.
1995: When the United House of Prayer, a large black landlord in Harlem, raises the rent on Freddy's Fashion Mart, Freddy's white Jewish owner is forced to raise the rent on his subtenant, a black-owned music store. A landlord-tenant dispute ensues; Sharpton uses it to incite racial hatred. "We will not stand by," he warns malignantly, "and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business." Sharpton's National Action Network sets up picket lines; customers going into Freddy's are spat on and cursed as "traitors" and "Uncle Toms." Some protesters shout, "Burn down the Jew store!" and simulate striking a match. "We're going to see that this cracker suffers," says Sharpton's colleague Morris Powell. On Dec. 8, one of the protesters bursts into Freddy's, shoots four employees point-blank, then sets the store on fire. Seven employees die in the inferno.
2006: I don't guess I have to even mention the Duke trial. It's been discussed to death.
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People who are white don't get grouped together as "White People" by the majority because we ARE the majority. That, I believe is what he is saying and is correct.
Yet he falls into the same trap by basically turning white people into a faceless group. These things are so much easier when you boil everything down to generic "groups" based off of general notions of race aren't they? Pity that reality is far more complex.
I took from his examples of particular white malfeasance, not that white people are a faceless group, but that white people aren't viewed as a single group, with these being the examples. He's not saying that all white people should have to apologise for Ken Lay and Susan Smith, but that Muslims shouldn't necessarily have to answer for Osama bin Laden, nor blacks for fucking Sinbad or Shaquille O'Neil.
So, is that how you argue things? By saying if it isn't everywhere then it isn't a problem? Because, if it is, then we can just be done here.
Is this how you argue things, by reading only what you want, and twisting it to mean what you want it to mean? Because then yes, I agree, we are done here. I've never said that racism is not a problem, all I've said is that more progress has been made than people are willing to admit at times. If we could focus our attention on situations such as those in Georgia, we'd be much better served than just trying to attack the 'idea' of racism. Think of our war on 'terrorism' is a war against an 'idea' that can never be won? It's the same situation for Racism, if you choose to look at it that way. Why weren't these people fired, like Imus was? Because they don't have a radio show?
EDIT: In a nutshell, do you think the reaction to this situation was overall a positive one, or a negative one? Were people supportive of this school's decision? Were people outraged? How do you think the ratio of supportive/outraged people would appear 40 years ago? How many semi-intelligent people under the age of 40 do you think support segregation in our schools? Racism aside, it's generally a stupid idea to teach a child in an environment that will not mirror his living situation.
Oh, I get it... okay, explain to me how Don Imus's comments help to end racism again?
Because it sounds like you think that, since we've made progress, we can just sit back and relax now because racism only exists in Georgia, and it isn't even all of Georgia, just that one town. So, it's cool.
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Here's my problem with the whole "when a black guy commits a crime, it looks bad on all black people, but white people don't have the same problem" argument: When an idiot white guy like Imus or those in the Georgia school board does something racist, then all of a sudden OMG ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST, WE HAVEN'T MADE AND PROGRESS!.
If you fail to see the hypocrisy in that, than next time I post, I'll use smaller words.
I want to add to what Nickle said with specific items dealing with none other than the "Reverend" Al Sharpton. We all know he's sort of the go-to person to pull the race card. If someone is going to do it, it's going to be him. The problem is that some people actually listen to him and I have no idea why! Here's some interesting tidbits about Sharpton.
1987: Sharpton spreads the incendiary Tawana Brawley hoax, insisting heatedly that a 15-year-old black girl was abducted, raped, and smeared with feces by a group of white men. He singles out Steve Pagones, a young prosecutor. Pagones is wholly innocent -- the crime never occurred -- but Sharpton taunts him: "If we're lying, sue us, so we can . . . prove you did it." Pagones does sue, and eventually wins a $345,000 verdict for defamation. To this day, Sharpton refuses to recant his unspeakable slander or to apologize for his role in the odious affair.
1991: A Hasidic Jewish driver in Brooklyn's Crown Heights section accidentally kills Gavin Cato, a 7-year-old black child, and antisemitic riots erupt. Sharpton races to pour gasoline on the fire. At Gavin's funeral he rails against the "diamond merchants" -- code for Jews -- with "the blood of innocent babies" on their hands. He mobilizes hundreds of demonstrators to march through the Jewish neighborhood, chanting, "No justice, no peace." A rabbinical student, Yankel Rosenbaum, is surrounded by a mob shouting "Kill the Jews!" and stabbed to death.
1995: When the United House of Prayer, a large black landlord in Harlem, raises the rent on Freddy's Fashion Mart, Freddy's white Jewish owner is forced to raise the rent on his subtenant, a black-owned music store. A landlord-tenant dispute ensues; Sharpton uses it to incite racial hatred. "We will not stand by," he warns malignantly, "and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business." Sharpton's National Action Network sets up picket lines; customers going into Freddy's are spat on and cursed as "traitors" and "Uncle Toms." Some protesters shout, "Burn down the Jew store!" and simulate striking a match. "We're going to see that this cracker suffers," says Sharpton's colleague Morris Powell. On Dec. 8, one of the protesters bursts into Freddy's, shoots four employees point-blank, then sets the store on fire. Seven employees die in the inferno.
2006: I don't guess I have to even mention the Duke trial. It's been discussed to death.
Here's my problem with the whole "when a black guy commits a crime, it looks bad on all black people, but white people don't have the same problem" argument: When an idiot white guy like Imus or those in the Georgia school board does something racist, then all of a sudden OMG ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST, WE HAVEN'T MADE AND PROGRESS!.
If you fail to see the hypocrisy in that, than next time I post, I'll use smaller words.
I want to add to what Nickle said with specific items dealing with none other than the "Reverend" Al Sharpton. We all know he's sort of the go-to person to pull the race card. If someone is going to do it, it's going to be him. The problem is that some people actually listen to him and I have no idea why! Here's some interesting tidbits about Sharpton.
1987: Sharpton spreads the incendiary Tawana Brawley hoax, insisting heatedly that a 15-year-old black girl was abducted, raped, and smeared with feces by a group of white men. He singles out Steve Pagones, a young prosecutor. Pagones is wholly innocent -- the crime never occurred -- but Sharpton taunts him: "If we're lying, sue us, so we can . . . prove you did it." Pagones does sue, and eventually wins a $345,000 verdict for defamation. To this day, Sharpton refuses to recant his unspeakable slander or to apologize for his role in the odious affair.
1991: A Hasidic Jewish driver in Brooklyn's Crown Heights section accidentally kills Gavin Cato, a 7-year-old black child, and antisemitic riots erupt. Sharpton races to pour gasoline on the fire. At Gavin's funeral he rails against the "diamond merchants" -- code for Jews -- with "the blood of innocent babies" on their hands. He mobilizes hundreds of demonstrators to march through the Jewish neighborhood, chanting, "No justice, no peace." A rabbinical student, Yankel Rosenbaum, is surrounded by a mob shouting "Kill the Jews!" and stabbed to death.
1995: When the United House of Prayer, a large black landlord in Harlem, raises the rent on Freddy's Fashion Mart, Freddy's white Jewish owner is forced to raise the rent on his subtenant, a black-owned music store. A landlord-tenant dispute ensues; Sharpton uses it to incite racial hatred. "We will not stand by," he warns malignantly, "and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business." Sharpton's National Action Network sets up picket lines; customers going into Freddy's are spat on and cursed as "traitors" and "Uncle Toms." Some protesters shout, "Burn down the Jew store!" and simulate striking a match. "We're going to see that this cracker suffers," says Sharpton's colleague Morris Powell. On Dec. 8, one of the protesters bursts into Freddy's, shoots four employees point-blank, then sets the store on fire. Seven employees die in the inferno.
2006: I don't guess I have to even mention the Duke trial. It's been discussed to death.
This is exactly why I dislike Al Sharpton.
This is totally relevant to the topic.
Has anyone defended Sharpton in here? Fucking anyone? Repeatedly attacking Sharpton has absolutely no relevance to this topic whatsoever, except to prove that you're probably a mouth-breathing twit who clearly doesn't understand the basics of debate.
I believe the thesis was "the Imus Scandal is flawed on some levels, not the least of which is the leadership of Al Sharpton and the influence he has." Those examples are very tantamount to why he should not be listened to in the first place.
I believe the thesis was "the Imus Scandal is flawed on some levels, not the least of which is the leadership of Al Sharpton and the influence he has." Those examples are very tantamount to why he should not be listened to in the first place.
While, if you weren't a mouth-breathing twit trapped in a hysterical fit of white denial, you might realize that there are an awful lot of people who didn't need Al Sharpton to tell them to be offended.
I believe the thesis was "the Imus Scandal is flawed on some levels, not the least of which is the leadership of Al Sharpton and the influence he has." Those examples are very tantamount to why he should not be listened to in the first place.
Which, if you weren't a mouth-breathing twit trapped in a hysterical fit of white denial, you might realize that there are an awful lot of people who didn't need Al Sharpton to tell them to be offended.
You dare to call me racist, I was one of about thirty white kids in my high school, out of sixteen hundred. You can call me whatever you want, but do not dare call me a racist, you don't even know me and I take incredible offense. I am not a twit, not am I in denial about a damn thing. White people in the past did some fucked up shit, but I was not even alive then.
I'm not talking about the people that "didn't need Al Sharpton to tell them to be offended." I'm referring to the fact that there is a serious problem with the man leading this crusade, and that he can only make it worse.
I didn't call anyone a racist, but I'm comfortable saying there's been a fair amount of white denial expressed in this thread.
Also -- as we've stated god knows how many times, Al Sharpton is absolutely immaterial to the topic at hand, and people who can't see that are -- yes -- mouth-breathing idiots.
how does al sharpton enter this equation? were you expecting him to not say anything? and why shouldn't he say anything? an old racist said something outrageously racist and sexist, and was subsequently fired. what's all this discussion? if you can't see how it was racist or sexist, or if you can't see how don imus is a racist, i might suggest you ask whoever puts your pants on for you in the morning about it.
And until it is eradicated, dug up and discarded root and branch, there can be no legitimate discussion of "colorblindness" or simple individualism. Nor can we be taken seriously as a nation when we hold ourselves up as an example to other nations of what freedom and democracy are supposed to look like.
I find this insulting. Some how being minority or a woman puts you at such a "disadvantage" that the federal government must secure 10% of the business for you. The same is true at the state and local level where I live. What this means is you get an advantage from being a engineering firm owned by a woman or a minority. To the forum, is white privilege worth 10% of all federal contracts or should it be based on whoever is the best firm to gets the job?
Isn't that what you want? Does it make you feel good? What else can't you do? Wanna fly a Confederate flag from the back of your truck? Fuck, do that, too.
Do you have anything else to say when the topic of race comes up? A white dude blows up and calls a bunch of black people "n****rs"? "I can't say n****r!" Black history month? "I can't say n****r!" A white dude calls a bunch of college girls nappy-headed hoes? "rap music!" Every fucking senator in this country is white? "I can't say n****r!" There's white privilege? "I can't say n****r!"
Now, what the hell does n****r have to do with Imus? Oh right, you know better than black people. Don't be offended over this shit, go look at your own shit. Look at your music, don't look at us. Look at "your people" don't you dare look at us. And you get a black man who criticizes this music you hate, and the ignorance you despise and what do we say? The n****r said n****r, and I can't say n****r!
Isn't that what you want? Does it make you feel good? What else can't you do? Wanna fly a Confederate flag from the back of your truck? Fuck, do that, too.
Do you have anything else to say when the topic of race comes up? A white dude blows up and calls a bunch of black people "n****rs"? "I can't say n****r!" Black history month? "I can't say n****r!" A white dude calls a bunch of college girls nappy-headed hoes? "rap music!" Every fucking senator in this country is white? "I can't say n****r!" There's white privilege? "I can't say n****r!"
Now, what the hell does n****r have to do with Imus? Oh right, you know better than black people. Don't be offended over this shit, go look at your own shit. Look at your music, don't look at us. Look at "your people" don't you dare look at us. And you get a black man who criticizes this music you hate, and the ignorance you despise and what do we say? The n****r said n****r, and I can't say n****r!
I'm not eating your horseshit.
Say n****r, I'm not gonna stop you.
I do not know who that is directed at and it does not help the debate. Please stop setting up strawmen.
1. I did not say I was white.
2. I did say that NO ONE should use the word n***r or n***a, because it is offensive. If black people choose to use the word n***a then they should not be surprised when stupid white people use it in the same context and way that they use it. If you really hate white people using the word n***a and you believe they should stop, then stop using the word n***a in you daily conversation.
the real question is why would you want to say n***** at all. is that something you've been pining to do?
No I have never said it and neither should you. The word is full of hate. When people use the word it makes it more commonplace which is a bad thing. The word should not be used.
Why can Chris Rock say the above statement? Could Dana Cook say something like the above? Why not? What word could my white friends use to describe the ignorant black people? Black people use "N****r,†what can a white man use if N****r is off limits?
In short, how would you suggest a white man express the same sentiment as Chris Rock did in the first link?
this comment seems to suggest you taking exception at not being able to say n*****, which in turn implies you'd like to. perhaps you'd like to clarify?
Isn't that what you want? Does it make you feel good? What else can't you do? Wanna fly a Confederate flag from the back of your truck? Fuck, do that, too.
Do you have anything else to say when the topic of race comes up? A white dude blows up and calls a bunch of black people "n****rs"? "I can't say n****r!" Black history month? "I can't say n****r!" A white dude calls a bunch of college girls nappy-headed hoes? "rap music!" Every fucking senator in this country is white? "I can't say n****r!" There's white privilege? "I can't say n****r!"
Now, what the hell does n****r have to do with Imus? Oh right, you know better than black people. Don't be offended over this shit, go look at your own shit. Look at your music, don't look at us. Look at "your people" don't you dare look at us. And you get a black man who criticizes this music you hate, and the ignorance you despise and what do we say? The n****r said n****r, and I can't say n****r!
I'm not eating your horseshit.
Say n****r, I'm not gonna stop you.
I do not know who that is directed at and it does not help the debate. Please stop setting up strawmen.
Really? If talking about n****r doesn't help the debate, then don't fucking bring it up. It's addressed to several people who continually bring this up.
Does it help the conversation when this is continually brought up in every fucking topic involving race? The man didn't even say n****r, and yet our resident nut monkeys manage to bring it up.
I did say that NO ONE should use the word n***r or n***a, because it is offensive. If black people choose to use the word n***a then they should not be surprised when stupid white people use it in the same context and way that they you it. If you really hate white people using the word n***a and you believe they should stop, then stop using the word n***a in you daily conversation.
Oh man, what a twist. You're flipping paradigms, and thinking outside the great n****r box.
Those white people stopped using n****r when? We're doing it to ourselves, aren't we? I mean, if we just stopped saying n****r, then they wouldn't, right? Should I start flagellating myself?
Yeah, we should just ignore the history of this country, and pretend the word means the same thing coming from a white person as when a black person says it.
here's a thought: it's not your fucking decision what black people should to call themselves. whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, the word has been used against them for a long time. there's no reason for you not understand it carries a different connotation coming from a white person.
Why can Chris Rock say the above statement? Could Dana Cook say something like the above? Why not? What word could my white friends use to describe the ignorant black people? Black people use "N****r,” what can a white man use if N****r is off limits?
In short, how would you suggest a white man express the same sentiment as Chris Rock did in the first link?
this comment seems to suggest you taking exception at not being able to say n*****, which in turn implies you'd like to. perhaps you'd like to clarify?
Just pointing out how common place the word is in certain circles. How it is accepted in certain circles but not others. How the line in some people's head becomes blurry when they hear the word n***a every day in the type of music they listen. They see people calling each other n***a who are wearing the same urban style that they wear. They hear people calling each other n***a while playing video games, football, and on when they go on dates. In essence the word n***a is not a bad word; unless your skin color is white. The only difference between these people is their skin color and based on their skin color one group of people is allowed to use the whole urban dictionary and another group of people are only allowed to use part of the dictionary.
N***a!=N****r if you are black
N***a=N****r if you are white
Given the harsh and hate hateful meaning of the word, any verison of it should not be used.
I also used the above quote as bait to post the later material; I had to lead the thread in a certain direction. I needed someone to say that is OK to say N****r or N***a if you are black but not if you where white. Then I planed on jumping on them with my position. I was thinking several things at once and also thinking ahead a couple of posts.
I haven't heard many Hispanics calling each other spics, but yet I continue to hear the word. Funny that.
Ever built a house in Oklahoma? I have and they do.
That word would be around even more if they used it in everday language like n***a is used.
Since it is not used it still has that power and non-racist will not use it. No matter what you do racist will still use the word N****r, but if you stop using it 20 times a day it will help.
you seem to have the underlying concept right, that blacks can use the word but not whites, but you don't seem to be grasping why that is. it doesn't have to do with just skin color. there's a lot of history there which you just seem to be glossing over.
you seem to have the underlying concept right, that blacks can use the word but not whites, but you don't seem to be grasping why that is. it doesn't have to do with just skin color. there's a lot of history there which you just seem to be glossing over.
Right, ANYONE can you the word. EVERYONE should not use the word. I get the history.
Why do you instist (if you do) on using the word n***a?
P.S.- If you have not watched the you tube videos I posted you should if you have the time.
you seem to have the underlying concept right, that blacks can use the word but not whites, but you don't seem to be grasping why that is. it doesn't have to do with just skin color. there's a lot of history there which you just seem to be glossing over.
Right, ANYONE can you the word. EVERYONE should not use the word. I get the history.
Why do you instist (if you do) on using the word n***a?
P.S.- If you have not watched the you tube videos I posted you should if you have the time.
Why does it have to do with Imus? C'mon, tell me. I mean, I'm all for it helping the conversation.
you seem to have the underlying concept right, that blacks can use the word but not whites, but you don't seem to be grasping why that is. it doesn't have to do with just skin color. there's a lot of history there which you just seem to be glossing over.
Right, ANYONE can you the word. EVERYONE should not use the word. I get the history.
Why do you instist (if you do) on using the word n***a?
P.S.- If you have not watched the you tube videos I posted you should if you have the time.
Why does it have to do with Imus? C'mon, tell me. I mean, I'm all for it helping the conversation.
Would you prefer a new thread? I can see a link but not a strong enough one to continue if you feel it is off-topic.
Next time Chris Rock makes Whitey jokes I'll be sure to call the rainbow coalition since they do not want racism for anybody under any circumstance. They will protest for me. Am i rite?
I was actually just reading the BBC's editorial guidelines for swear words, for an unrelated reason, and this page came up:
Changing acceptability
Careful judgements have to be made about the acceptability of certain terms. For example, words such as "faggot", "poof" or "queer" are sometimes used by members of the gay community to describe each other; but the same terms may be deemed offensive when used by a heterosexual, particularly if the terminology is used aggressively or in a clearly pejorative manner.
Likewise, the term "n*****" is occasionally used in the black community and terms such as "cripple" are sometimes used humorously or sarcastically by people with disabilities. But this usage may still cause distress within these communities and is also much more likely to cause offence when employed by someone who is not a member of the requisite community.
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I was actually just reading the BBC's editorial guidelines for swear words, for an unrelated reason, and this page came up:
Changing acceptability
Careful judgements have to be made about the acceptability of certain terms. For example, words such as "faggot", "poof" or "queer" are sometimes used by members of the gay community to describe each other; but the same terms may be deemed offensive when used by a heterosexual, particularly if the terminology is used aggressively or in a clearly pejorative manner.
Likewise, the term "n*****" is occasionally used in the black community and terms such as "cripple" are sometimes used humorously or sarcastically by people with disabilities. But this usage may still cause distress within these communities and is also much more likely to cause offence when employed by someone who is not a member of the requisite community.
i don't use that word. i insist on letting black people call each other whatever they want. i also insist that white people not call black people whatever they want.
I know I'll probably get fried for this. But I have to take the South Park stance on this. Either its always OK, or its never OK. And since its impossible to get everyone to stop using the N-word, then it has to have equal weight regardless of whether a black or a white says it. This whole perception that its OK for blacks to use it, but not whites just reinforces the idea that the two races aren't equal.
I also figure that the sooner BOTH sides are allowed to say it, the sooner the term gets lame and someone invents a new word that becomes offensive. The longer they continue to be obsessed with this stigma attached to the N-word the more people want to use it for shock value. No one is telling anyone to forget slavery or anything, just, GAH! Stop being obsessed with that stupid word!!! It only has the power YOU allow it to have!!! The more people cry and cry about how offensive it is, that's just signaling to other people that if they use that word, they can affect you, they can make you flinch, they can make you upset. Don't allow people to push your buttons like that.
Stop giving those assholes in the media an excuse to not report real news!
So it looks like Nike is trying to capitalize on this? I just got a weird email with the "Nike swoosh" at the top from a PR firm. It smacks of Nike's stupid, random nature:
A different kind of Thank You from Nike.
"Thank you, ignorance.
Thank you for starting the conversation.
Thank you for making an entire nation listen to the Rutger's (sic) team story. And for making us wonder what other great stories we've missed. Thank you for reminding us to think before we speak.
Thank you for showing us how strong and poised 18 and 20-year-old women can be.
Thank you for reminding us that another basketball tournament goes on in March.
Thank you for showing us that sport includes more than the time spent on the court.
Thank you for unintentionally moving women's sport forward.
And thank you for making all of us realize that we still have a long way to go.
Next season starts 11.16.07."
I already hear plenty of people using the N word jokingly around black friends with no trouble.
However this is anecdotal and the difference is that when you don't know the person who uses the words on the radio or on tv or whatever, the automatic assumption-with reason- is that they are racist
All you hear these days is the outrage-loud and clear
I know I'll probably get fried for this. But I have to take the South Park stance on this. Either its always OK, or its never OK. And since its impossible to get everyone to stop using the N-word, then it has to have equal weight regardless of whether a black or a white says it. This whole perception that its OK for blacks to use it, but not whites just reinforces the idea that the two races aren't equal.
I also figure that the sooner BOTH sides are allowed to say it, the sooner the term gets lame and someone invents a new word that becomes offensive. The longer they continue to be obsessed with this stigma attached to the N-word the more people want to use it for shock value. No one is telling anyone to forget slavery or anything, just, GAH! Stop being obsessed with that stupid word!!! It only has the power YOU allow it to have!!! The more people cry and cry about how offensive it is, that's just signaling to other people that if they use that word, they can affect you, they can make you flinch, they can make you upset. Don't allow people to push your buttons like that.
Stop giving those assholes in the media an excuse to not report real news!
If that's what you got from the South Park episode then you need to watch it again.
Every group has the right to refer to itself in its own way... without having the outside groups dictate what they say or how they say it. There is no reason black people should have to stop using that word. People who can't see the difference have a whole subset of issues.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I don't understand the difference between whites using the n-word, who have historically (like 400 years of history) only used the n-word as a toxic, demeaning, heavy-handed put-down, and blacks using the n-word as a term of endearment, or greeting, or any of the other various ways it can be used.
Can someone explain the difference to me?
I mean, I think it's parallel to the Jewish community's tendency to make self-deprecating anti-Semitic jokes. But that couldn't possibly be it, could it?
Here's the fucking difference... god, I used to think this forum was intelligent...
Reappropriation is the cultural process by which a group reclaims—re-appropriates—terms or artifacts that were previously used in a way disparaging of that group. For example, since the early 1970s, much terminology referring to homosexuality—such as gay, queer and (to a lesser extent) faggot—has been reappropriated. Another example of reappropriation would be an African American collecting lawn jockeys or other artifacts of darky iconography. The term reappropriation can also extend to counter-hegemonic re-purposing, such as citizens with no formal authority seizing unused public or private land for community use.
The term reappropriation is an extension of the term appropriation or cultural appropriation used in anthropology, sociology and cultural studies to describe the hegemonic action of reabsorbing subcultural styles and forms, or those from other cultures, into mass culture through a process of commodification: the mass-marketing of alternate lifestyles, practices, and artifacts.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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I want to add to what Nickle said with specific items dealing with none other than the "Reverend" Al Sharpton. We all know he's sort of the go-to person to pull the race card. If someone is going to do it, it's going to be him. The problem is that some people actually listen to him and I have no idea why! Here's some interesting tidbits about Sharpton.
1987: Sharpton spreads the incendiary Tawana Brawley hoax, insisting heatedly that a 15-year-old black girl was abducted, raped, and smeared with feces by a group of white men. He singles out Steve Pagones, a young prosecutor. Pagones is wholly innocent -- the crime never occurred -- but Sharpton taunts him: "If we're lying, sue us, so we can . . . prove you did it." Pagones does sue, and eventually wins a $345,000 verdict for defamation. To this day, Sharpton refuses to recant his unspeakable slander or to apologize for his role in the odious affair.
1991: A Hasidic Jewish driver in Brooklyn's Crown Heights section accidentally kills Gavin Cato, a 7-year-old black child, and antisemitic riots erupt. Sharpton races to pour gasoline on the fire. At Gavin's funeral he rails against the "diamond merchants" -- code for Jews -- with "the blood of innocent babies" on their hands. He mobilizes hundreds of demonstrators to march through the Jewish neighborhood, chanting, "No justice, no peace." A rabbinical student, Yankel Rosenbaum, is surrounded by a mob shouting "Kill the Jews!" and stabbed to death.
1995: When the United House of Prayer, a large black landlord in Harlem, raises the rent on Freddy's Fashion Mart, Freddy's white Jewish owner is forced to raise the rent on his subtenant, a black-owned music store. A landlord-tenant dispute ensues; Sharpton uses it to incite racial hatred. "We will not stand by," he warns malignantly, "and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business." Sharpton's National Action Network sets up picket lines; customers going into Freddy's are spat on and cursed as "traitors" and "Uncle Toms." Some protesters shout, "Burn down the Jew store!" and simulate striking a match. "We're going to see that this cracker suffers," says Sharpton's colleague Morris Powell. On Dec. 8, one of the protesters bursts into Freddy's, shoots four employees point-blank, then sets the store on fire. Seven employees die in the inferno.
2006: I don't guess I have to even mention the Duke trial. It's been discussed to death.
Wii Code: 1040-1320-0724-3613 :!!:
Oh, I get it... okay, explain to me how Don Imus's comments help to end racism again?
Because it sounds like you think that, since we've made progress, we can just sit back and relax now because racism only exists in Georgia, and it isn't even all of Georgia, just that one town. So, it's cool.
This is exactly why I dislike Al Sharpton.
Has anyone defended Sharpton in here? Fucking anyone? Repeatedly attacking Sharpton has absolutely no relevance to this topic whatsoever, except to prove that you're probably a mouth-breathing twit who clearly doesn't understand the basics of debate.
You dare to call me racist, I was one of about thirty white kids in my high school, out of sixteen hundred. You can call me whatever you want, but do not dare call me a racist, you don't even know me and I take incredible offense. I am not a twit, not am I in denial about a damn thing. White people in the past did some fucked up shit, but I was not even alive then.
I'm not talking about the people that "didn't need Al Sharpton to tell them to be offended." I'm referring to the fact that there is a serious problem with the man leading this crusade, and that he can only make it worse.
Also -- as we've stated god knows how many times, Al Sharpton is absolutely immaterial to the topic at hand, and people who can't see that are -- yes -- mouth-breathing idiots.
Thank you for posting this now we are getting somewhere.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/business/engrserv/dbe-main.htm
I find this insulting. Some how being minority or a woman puts you at such a "disadvantage" that the federal government must secure 10% of the business for you. The same is true at the state and local level where I live. What this means is you get an advantage from being a engineering firm owned by a woman or a minority. To the forum, is white privilege worth 10% of all federal contracts or should it be based on whoever is the best firm to gets the job?
C'mon, say it.
Isn't that what you want? Does it make you feel good? What else can't you do? Wanna fly a Confederate flag from the back of your truck? Fuck, do that, too.
Do you have anything else to say when the topic of race comes up? A white dude blows up and calls a bunch of black people "n****rs"? "I can't say n****r!" Black history month? "I can't say n****r!" A white dude calls a bunch of college girls nappy-headed hoes? "rap music!" Every fucking senator in this country is white? "I can't say n****r!" There's white privilege? "I can't say n****r!"
Now, what the hell does n****r have to do with Imus? Oh right, you know better than black people. Don't be offended over this shit, go look at your own shit. Look at your music, don't look at us. Look at "your people" don't you dare look at us. And you get a black man who criticizes this music you hate, and the ignorance you despise and what do we say? The n****r said n****r, and I can't say n****r!
I'm not eating your horseshit.
Say n****r, I'm not gonna stop you.
I do not know who that is directed at and it does not help the debate. Please stop setting up strawmen.
1. I did not say I was white.
2. I did say that NO ONE should use the word n***r or n***a, because it is offensive. If black people choose to use the word n***a then they should not be surprised when stupid white people use it in the same context and way that they use it. If you really hate white people using the word n***a and you believe they should stop, then stop using the word n***a in you daily conversation.
My position is not what you posted above.
No I have never said it and neither should you. The word is full of hate. When people use the word it makes it more commonplace which is a bad thing. The word should not be used.
this comment seems to suggest you taking exception at not being able to say n*****, which in turn implies you'd like to. perhaps you'd like to clarify?
Does it help the conversation when this is continually brought up in every fucking topic involving race? The man didn't even say n****r, and yet our resident nut monkeys manage to bring it up.
Does that help the conversation?
Are you helping the conversation?
Nobody gives a shit.
Oh man, what a twist. You're flipping paradigms, and thinking outside the great n****r box.
Those white people stopped using n****r when? We're doing it to ourselves, aren't we? I mean, if we just stopped saying n****r, then they wouldn't, right? Should I start flagellating myself?
Yeah, we should just ignore the history of this country, and pretend the word means the same thing coming from a white person as when a black person says it.
Just pointing out how common place the word is in certain circles. How it is accepted in certain circles but not others. How the line in some people's head becomes blurry when they hear the word n***a every day in the type of music they listen. They see people calling each other n***a who are wearing the same urban style that they wear. They hear people calling each other n***a while playing video games, football, and on when they go on dates. In essence the word n***a is not a bad word; unless your skin color is white. The only difference between these people is their skin color and based on their skin color one group of people is allowed to use the whole urban dictionary and another group of people are only allowed to use part of the dictionary.
N***a!=N****r if you are black
N***a=N****r if you are white
Given the harsh and hate hateful meaning of the word, any verison of it should not be used.
I also used the above quote as bait to post the later material; I had to lead the thread in a certain direction. I needed someone to say that is OK to say N****r or N***a if you are black but not if you where white. Then I planed on jumping on them with my position. I was thinking several things at once and also thinking ahead a couple of posts.
Ever built a house in Oklahoma? I have and they do.
That word would be around even more if they used it in everday language like n***a is used.
Since it is not used it still has that power and non-racist will not use it. No matter what you do racist will still use the word N****r, but if you stop using it 20 times a day it will help.
Right, ANYONE can you the word. EVERYONE should not use the word. I get the history.
Why do you instist (if you do) on using the word n***a?
P.S.- If you have not watched the you tube videos I posted you should if you have the time.
Why does it have to do with Imus? C'mon, tell me. I mean, I'm all for it helping the conversation.
Would you prefer a new thread? I can see a link but not a strong enough one to continue if you feel it is off-topic.
Oh the white man needs the blacks to be irresponsible to use the word. Wouldn't use it other wise. Never did.
With the latest mischaracterization of my stance by Elkamil I will log off.
Yep, whiny bullshit is not his stance. This is Manning's reaction to a dude calling a bunch of girls nappy-headed hoes.
I also figure that the sooner BOTH sides are allowed to say it, the sooner the term gets lame and someone invents a new word that becomes offensive. The longer they continue to be obsessed with this stigma attached to the N-word the more people want to use it for shock value. No one is telling anyone to forget slavery or anything, just, GAH! Stop being obsessed with that stupid word!!! It only has the power YOU allow it to have!!! The more people cry and cry about how offensive it is, that's just signaling to other people that if they use that word, they can affect you, they can make you flinch, they can make you upset. Don't allow people to push your buttons like that.
Stop giving those assholes in the media an excuse to not report real news!
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
However this is anecdotal and the difference is that when you don't know the person who uses the words on the radio or on tv or whatever, the automatic assumption-with reason- is that they are racist
All you hear these days is the outrage-loud and clear
edit-thanks drez-oops : (
If that's what you got from the South Park episode then you need to watch it again.
Every group has the right to refer to itself in its own way... without having the outside groups dictate what they say or how they say it. There is no reason black people should have to stop using that word. People who can't see the difference have a whole subset of issues.
Can someone explain the difference to me?
I mean, I think it's parallel to the Jewish community's tendency to make self-deprecating anti-Semitic jokes. But that couldn't possibly be it, could it?
See, this is the sort of shit people come up with when they don't have to deal with the consequences. This stupid, stupid bullshit.