I'm thinking of getting a GTX 470 in the next 3 to 6 months, mainly because I've had better experiences with Geforce cards on my rig than with ATI cards. Added to which, I like the PhysX stuff in Mirror's Edge and Batman: Arkham Asylum, but I can't just put a small Geforce in my machine as a dedicated physics accelerator due to the motherbord only supporting one card. Still, I'll wait for a) more reviews of the 470 and b) Swiss prices before I make any decision.
just a heads up, europe is getting very very low low number of cards so expect them to go fast if they are available put it this way they shipped only 400 units to france thats 200 480's and 200 470s
and they were originally told they'd get at least 2k units total
I'm super disappointed by Nvidia because the GTX 480 uses just as much power, generates as much heat and produces pretty much identical performance in most games as my 2GB 4870 X2. I was hoping for at least 10-15% better performance out of a $500 card. I can't justify dropping that much to get DX11 and better folding at home performance. At least if I switched to a 5870 I'd significantly reduce power consumption and it costs $100 less.
I'm thinking of getting a GTX 470 in the next 3 to 6 months, mainly because I've had better experiences with Geforce cards on my rig than with ATI cards. Added to which, I like the PhysX stuff in Mirror's Edge and Batman: Arkham Asylum, but I can't just put a small Geforce in my machine as a dedicated physics accelerator due to the motherbord only supporting one card. Still, I'll wait for a) more reviews of the 470 and b) Swiss prices before I make any decision.
Last I heard Nvidia was being a dick and removed your ability to use a secondary Nvidia GPU for PhysX if your main GPU isn't also using an Nvidia chipset in a driver update. Meaning you can't use any AMD card for actual graphics rendering and throw in an Nvidia card just for PhysX.
So you're screwed even if you did have a motherboard that could accept two graphics cards.
Barrakketh on
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
I think there is some hack you can use to bypass NVidia's lockout though.
yeah using some alternate drivers or something like that
The hack changes files in Nvidia's control software. I'm not sure if the patch needs to be reinstalled after each driver update through. I was looking into installing a PhysX card in my new PC.
But after doing even more research after seeing the inflated prices of the 260 I realized that GPU hardware decoding of PhysX just isn't worth it. I'm going with a X58 Core i7 so I'll have plenty of CPU power & bandwidth so I'll be fine. Most importantly I'm not jumping through hoops just to reward Nvidia's behavior.
I think there is some hack you can use to bypass NVidia's lockout though.
yeah using some alternate drivers or something like that
The hack changes files in Nvidia's control software. I'm not sure if the patch needs to be reinstalled after each driver update through. I was looking into installing a PhysX card in my new PC.
I looked it up after someone mentioned a workaround, and evidently Nvidia also broke the "proper" PhysX cards made by BFG and a few other companies.
Not that that is likely to be what you meant by "PhysX card", though.
Barrakketh on
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
following the tech industry you begin to worry that their new cards (gtx470/gtx480) arent really up to par
so much delay and low yields at first and now claims of very low % performance upgrades put their competitor in a far better light
Hey, at least their stuff actually comes out. I still haven't seen hide nor hair of BitBoys' Glaze3D cards.
following the tech industry you begin to worry that their new cards (gtx470/gtx480) arent really up to par
so much delay and low yields at first and now claims of very low % performance upgrades put their competitor in a far better light
Hey, at least their stuff actually comes out. I still haven't seen hide nor hair of BitBoys' Glaze3D cards.
wow thats so long ago lol its like the duke nukem of graphics cards
thx, nice find bro
if i remember right the reason why the card never came out was because infineon stopped some of their chip productions , they were bought by qualcomm last year or 2 yrs ago i think
I think there is some hack you can use to bypass NVidia's lockout though.
yeah using some alternate drivers or something like that
The hack changes files in Nvidia's control software. I'm not sure if the patch needs to be reinstalled after each driver update through. I was looking into installing a PhysX card in my new PC.
I looked it up after someone mentioned a workaround, and evidently Nvidia also broke the "proper" PhysX cards made by BFG and a few other companies.
Not that that is likely to be what you meant by "PhysX card", though.
It looks like Nvidia gave BFG the boot. I would love for BFG to go red but that's a whole different discussion. What's ironic for me anyway is that I was looking at a BFG 260.
Just to be clear what I meant by PhysX card is adding an Nvidia card to my system just to run PhysX. I know a few people who have a monster SLI set up for their monitor and then an older card solely setup to run PhysX. Because PhysX kills FPS if it's running on your main card(s).
The more I look into this mess the more I see costs sky rocketing. I'm getting to the point that If I can't get the 5800 or 5900 cards even close to MSRP I'll just get a 5770 and wait for the 6000 cards. By then the Fermi 2 cards should be out.
I wouldn't count on Nvidia having updated cards out before the fourth quarter of this year. The best we can hope for is a fully functioning GF100 part with 16 SMs and the resulting 512 stream processors running at full speed. That's largely dependent on TSMC improving their 40nm process. As it stands now, the GTX 480 is a pared down, slower version of what Nvidia wanted to release and the yield they're getting is so poor that they are completely unable to use pricing to compete with ATI. But that problem is inherent with huge GPU dies.
I think you're going to end up with a 6000 series card unless a miracle happens for Nvidia within the next six months.
I wouldn't count on Nvidia having updated cards out before the fourth quarter of this year. The best we can hope for is a fully functioning GF100 part with 16 SMs and the resulting 512 stream processors running at full speed. That's largely dependent on TSMC improving their 40nm process. As it stands now, the GTX 480 is a pared down, slower version of what Nvidia wanted to release and the yield they're getting is so poor that they are completely unable to use pricing to compete with ATI. But that problem is inherent with huge GPU dies.
I think you're going to end up with a 6000 series card unless a miracle happens for Nvidia within the next six months.
The 5850's seem to have come down a little in price at Newegg but I'm sure that won't last long. I think Newegg saw an opportunity with pissed off enthusiasts who waited six months for a disappointment.
TSMC can't be blamed for everything. ATI had a similar problem with the 4770s so they tore the cards apart found the problem with their designs and fixed it resulting in the 5000 series. Now it's Nvidia's turn to take a time out and repair their design.
I've been doing a lot of reading and 2 things were pointed out that I had not throught of: 1) These review sites were given hand picked cards by Nvidia. So the standard retail ones will not be so good.
2) What is the heat from the Fermi cards going to do to other components inside our PCs? With the leaks there is a good chance the Fermi card capacitors won't even be able to handle the heat. Let alone hard drives, add-on cards, & the mobo. That's essentially 4-6 hours of baking in an oven.
All I can say is I hope the 6000 series shows ATI going with higher card buses than the 128bit ones for their mid range. The 5770 would be an over clocking monster if it wasn't bus limited.
I'm looking at my HAF 932 with my 1000watt Corsair PSU, hard drive, & DVD drive mounted just waiting for the rest of it's guts to show up. So I'll see what sales happen by later half of this week. If the rest of my checks come in I'll be ordering on Thursday.
And I hate to say it but I still think Nvidia's 3D gaming is cool.
Got any links about Nvidia hand picking the cards? Sure, they came from Nvidia and not any individual board manufacturers, but that doesn't mean they're particularly good cards. Results have been pretty consistent across the review sites and pretty much exactly what was expected based on the GPU and RAM specs.
And no, the heat is not a problem. There have been cards in the past that are just as hot. My 4870 X2 2GB is one of them. Sure, 95°C is hot, but there are a TON of capacitors rated for temperatures higher than that. Not that they'd ever reach that temperature anyway. The GPU die does, but the other components on the board don't. Even the GDDR5 chips don't get that hot and they're actively generating their own heat.
Got any links about Nvidia hand picking the cards? Sure, they came from Nvidia and not any individual board manufacturers, but that doesn't mean they're particularly good cards. Results have been pretty consistent across the review sites and pretty much exactly what was expected based on the GPU and RAM specs.
And no, the heat is not a problem. There have been cards in the past that are just as hot. My 4870 X2 2GB is one of them. Sure, 95°C is hot, but there are a TON of capacitors rated for temperatures higher than that. Not that they'd ever reach that temperature anyway. The GPU die does, but the other components on the board don't. Even the GDDR5 chips don't get that hot and they're actively generating their own heat.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that cards that get sent out to reviewers are the cream of crop, regardless of what company or product it is. Wouldn't reflect well if any cards with defects or issues with overclocking got sent out to reviewers.
After hearing all the relevant data, I'm still glad I bought a 5870. I feel like I'm getting the best performance in the industry that won't attempt to melt the rest of my computer.
I mean c'mon? 100c? That is literally the temperature at which water particles are excited from their earth native liquid form into a gaseous state.
Got any links about Nvidia hand picking the cards? Sure, they came from Nvidia and not any individual board manufacturers, but that doesn't mean they're particularly good cards. Results have been pretty consistent across the review sites and pretty much exactly what was expected based on the GPU and RAM specs.
And no, the heat is not a problem. There have been cards in the past that are just as hot. My 4870 X2 2GB is one of them. Sure, 95°C is hot, but there are a TON of capacitors rated for temperatures higher than that. Not that they'd ever reach that temperature anyway. The GPU die does, but the other components on the board don't. Even the GDDR5 chips don't get that hot and they're actively generating their own heat.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that cards that get sent out to reviewers are the cream of crop, regardless of what company or product it is. Wouldn't reflect well if any cards with defects or issues with overclocking got sent out to reviewers.
this is correct because of the tsmc via problems they had to do even more testing and examination of the wafers and the chips that came out
a lot of the chips that have flaws but are still useful have some parts disabled to be used in lower lvl specs (i.e gtx 470 etc)
ATI does this for their secondary lines too
and btw the heat IS a problem suffice to say when nvidia had the bumpgate problem the heat the cards suffered from would cause cracks in the chips remember these are chips manufactured in 55nm,40nm processes and it also explained the bad rate of failures in some 8xxx series and some 9xxx series of cards not to mention the failure rate of mobile units which is also why OEM partners are wary of the possibility of gtx 4XX series mobile cards (even thought the bumpgate problem was fixed there's no telling if it could ever happen again)
The 8-series' failure rate was a result of brittle solder. Not simply high heat output. It was the heating/cooling cycle that would cause solder joints to eventually crack. The Xbox 360 had the same problem. The new low lead solder simply isn't as good. The chips didn't crack. I don't know where you're getting your info.
And try to learn some semblance of proper grammar and punctuation. No one enjoys trying to decipher your sentences.
The 8-series' failure rate was a result of brittle solder. Not simply high heat output. It was the heating/cooling cycle that would cause solder joints to eventually crack. The Xbox 360 had the same problem. The new low lead solder simply isn't as good. The chips didn't crack. I don't know where you're getting your info.
And try to learn some semblance of proper grammar and punctuation. No one enjoys trying to decipher your sentences.
I don't know about what temps the 8-series got to when they tended to fail, but my 9600GT runs pretty hot, 70-80, and it doesn't seem to be affected by it. I also had an early 8-series card that worked great, until eVGA's crappy fan failed.
I don't know if you like to game in a void or what, but I'm assuming 1 atmosphere.
Well, living in Colorado, I am at slightly less than 1 atmosphere, so obviously this is important. That, and sometimes being pedantic is fun.
That's why I used the verb bake. :P Because wether you have a dirt cheap or very expensive case it's still a box that will keep the heat inside.
If I don't have AC on my room gets into the mid 90s during the summers out here. Not to mention 80%+ humidity. If I don't have the AC on I have to move my PC into the basement to game.
I wouldn't count on Nvidia having updated cards out before the fourth quarter of this year. The best we can hope for is a fully functioning GF100 part with 16 SMs and the resulting 512 stream processors running at full speed. That's largely dependent on TSMC improving their 40nm process. As it stands now, the GTX 480 is a pared down, slower version of what Nvidia wanted to release and the yield they're getting is so poor that they are completely unable to use pricing to compete with ATI. But that problem is inherent with huge GPU dies.
I think you're going to end up with a 6000 series card unless a miracle happens for Nvidia within the next six months.
TSMC can't be blamed for everything. ATI had a similar problem with the 4770s so they tore the cards apart found the problem with their designs and fixed it resulting in the 5000 series. Now it's Nvidia's turn to take a time out and repair their design.
Didn't ATI switch to Global Foundries for the 5000 series? Or am I conflating several anandtech stories into one today...
My PC makes a nice space heater during the colder months here. With a hot P4, and a 8600GT going at 70-80C, it can get pretty warm
Is it weird that I now have an image in my head of a PAer sleeping with his PC next to his bed with the exhaust fans turned toward him, running Prime95 stress tests constantly while snow falls outside?
Didn't ATI switch to Global Foundries for the 5000 series? Or am I conflating several anandtech stories into one today...
No TSMC did the 5000 series. The big questions are will GF do the 6000 series, is that Norther Isles, and will the next series be 40nm or 28nm. I'm not even going to try to delve into the 32nm issues & story right now.
After hearing all the relevant data, I'm still glad I bought a 5870. I feel like I'm getting the best performance in the industry that won't attempt to melt the rest of my computer.
I mean c'mon? 100c? That is literally the temperature at which water particles are excited from their earth native liquid form into a gaseous state.
I'm in the exact same boat. And really all price-performance discussion on Fermi is still speculative until these cards are actually available at some price. ATIs have already been over MSRP since they came out this series, and they don't have near the anticipated production issues that Fermi might have.
Didn't ATI switch to Global Foundries for the 5000 series? Or am I conflating several anandtech stories into one today...
No TSMC did the 5000 series. The big questions are will GF do the 6000 series, is that Norther Isles, and will the next series be 40nm or 28nm. I'm not even going to try to delve into the 32nm issues & story right now.
Global Foundries is signing up customers for their 45/40nm process, but I don't know if they're capable of producing GPUs in the volume that AMD requires. And 32nm won't happen until they get their new fab in Malta, NY online.
Funny because Nvidia themselves say to run in a 1x3 slot fashion, meaning do not sandwich the cards. A guy over at HardOCP left his GTX 480 sli rig going over night. It raised the temperature of his office a full 10F degrees. This was an open case, that could have damaged his PC if the case had been closed.
Posts
just a heads up, europe is getting very very low low number of cards so expect them to go fast if they are available put it this way they shipped only 400 units to france thats 200 480's and 200 470s
and they were originally told they'd get at least 2k units total
Last I heard Nvidia was being a dick and removed your ability to use a secondary Nvidia GPU for PhysX if your main GPU isn't also using an Nvidia chipset in a driver update. Meaning you can't use any AMD card for actual graphics rendering and throw in an Nvidia card just for PhysX.
So you're screwed even if you did have a motherboard that could accept two graphics cards.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
yeah using some alternate drivers or something like that
The hack changes files in Nvidia's control software. I'm not sure if the patch needs to be reinstalled after each driver update through. I was looking into installing a PhysX card in my new PC.
But after doing even more research after seeing the inflated prices of the 260 I realized that GPU hardware decoding of PhysX just isn't worth it. I'm going with a X58 Core i7 so I'll have plenty of CPU power & bandwidth so I'll be fine. Most importantly I'm not jumping through hoops just to reward Nvidia's behavior.
I looked it up after someone mentioned a workaround, and evidently Nvidia also broke the "proper" PhysX cards made by BFG and a few other companies.
Not that that is likely to be what you meant by "PhysX card", though.
Hey, at least their stuff actually comes out. I still haven't seen hide nor hair of BitBoys' Glaze3D cards.
wow thats so long ago lol its like the duke nukem of graphics cards
thx, nice find bro
if i remember right the reason why the card never came out was because infineon stopped some of their chip productions , they were bought by qualcomm last year or 2 yrs ago i think
It looks like Nvidia gave BFG the boot. I would love for BFG to go red but that's a whole different discussion. What's ironic for me anyway is that I was looking at a BFG 260.
Just to be clear what I meant by PhysX card is adding an Nvidia card to my system just to run PhysX. I know a few people who have a monster SLI set up for their monitor and then an older card solely setup to run PhysX. Because PhysX kills FPS if it's running on your main card(s).
The more I look into this mess the more I see costs sky rocketing. I'm getting to the point that If I can't get the 5800 or 5900 cards even close to MSRP I'll just get a 5770 and wait for the 6000 cards. By then the Fermi 2 cards should be out.
I think you're going to end up with a 6000 series card unless a miracle happens for Nvidia within the next six months.
The 5850's seem to have come down a little in price at Newegg but I'm sure that won't last long. I think Newegg saw an opportunity with pissed off enthusiasts who waited six months for a disappointment.
TSMC can't be blamed for everything. ATI had a similar problem with the 4770s so they tore the cards apart found the problem with their designs and fixed it resulting in the 5000 series. Now it's Nvidia's turn to take a time out and repair their design.
I've been doing a lot of reading and 2 things were pointed out that I had not throught of:
1) These review sites were given hand picked cards by Nvidia. So the standard retail ones will not be so good.
2) What is the heat from the Fermi cards going to do to other components inside our PCs? With the leaks there is a good chance the Fermi card capacitors won't even be able to handle the heat. Let alone hard drives, add-on cards, & the mobo. That's essentially 4-6 hours of baking in an oven.
All I can say is I hope the 6000 series shows ATI going with higher card buses than the 128bit ones for their mid range. The 5770 would be an over clocking monster if it wasn't bus limited.
I'm looking at my HAF 932 with my 1000watt Corsair PSU, hard drive, & DVD drive mounted just waiting for the rest of it's guts to show up. So I'll see what sales happen by later half of this week. If the rest of my checks come in I'll be ordering on Thursday.
And I hate to say it but I still think Nvidia's 3D gaming is cool.
And no, the heat is not a problem. There have been cards in the past that are just as hot. My 4870 X2 2GB is one of them. Sure, 95°C is hot, but there are a TON of capacitors rated for temperatures higher than that. Not that they'd ever reach that temperature anyway. The GPU die does, but the other components on the board don't. Even the GDDR5 chips don't get that hot and they're actively generating their own heat.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I think it's a pretty safe bet that cards that get sent out to reviewers are the cream of crop, regardless of what company or product it is. Wouldn't reflect well if any cards with defects or issues with overclocking got sent out to reviewers.
I mean c'mon? 100c? That is literally the temperature at which water particles are excited from their earth native liquid form into a gaseous state.
this is correct because of the tsmc via problems they had to do even more testing and examination of the wafers and the chips that came out
a lot of the chips that have flaws but are still useful have some parts disabled to be used in lower lvl specs (i.e gtx 470 etc)
ATI does this for their secondary lines too
and btw the heat IS a problem suffice to say when nvidia had the bumpgate problem the heat the cards suffered from would cause cracks in the chips remember these are chips manufactured in 55nm,40nm processes and it also explained the bad rate of failures in some 8xxx series and some 9xxx series of cards not to mention the failure rate of mobile units which is also why OEM partners are wary of the possibility of gtx 4XX series mobile cards (even thought the bumpgate problem was fixed there's no telling if it could ever happen again)
And try to learn some semblance of proper grammar and punctuation. No one enjoys trying to decipher your sentences.
I don't know about what temps the 8-series got to when they tended to fail, but my 9600GT runs pretty hot, 70-80, and it doesn't seem to be affected by it. I also had an early 8-series card that worked great, until eVGA's crappy fan failed.
i sincerely apologize for that
That's why I used the verb bake. :P Because wether you have a dirt cheap or very expensive case it's still a box that will keep the heat inside.
If I don't have AC on my room gets into the mid 90s during the summers out here. Not to mention 80%+ humidity. If I don't have the AC on I have to move my PC into the basement to game.
Didn't ATI switch to Global Foundries for the 5000 series? Or am I conflating several anandtech stories into one today...
Battle.net
Is it weird that I now have an image in my head of a PAer sleeping with his PC next to his bed with the exhaust fans turned toward him, running Prime95 stress tests constantly while snow falls outside?
Battle.net
I'm in the exact same boat. And really all price-performance discussion on Fermi is still speculative until these cards are actually available at some price. ATIs have already been over MSRP since they came out this series, and they don't have near the anticipated production issues that Fermi might have.
PSN: TheScrublet
Global Foundries is signing up customers for their 45/40nm process, but I don't know if they're capable of producing GPUs in the volume that AMD requires. And 32nm won't happen until they get their new fab in Malta, NY online.
http://www.ngohq.com/news/17574-nvidia-geforce-gtx-480-3-way-sli-review.html
I laughed waaaaay too hard at that.