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Definitive Version of your Favorites
cshadow42
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Registered User regular
The purpose of this thread is for folks to share what they think is the definitive version/run of a comic for a particular character. This can include runs that were later retconned away, but you felt were nonetheless important.
I'll start.
Spider-man:
For me, the definitive Spider-man was JMS's run on Amazing Spider-man. I think JMS presented a wonderful storyline that showed how Peter Parker got in touch with the 'spider' portion of his origins. Also, I think Peter Parker grew as a character. He started off isolated from everyone around him, but eventually grew to accepting that it was ok to let people from his civilian life in on his secret, and finding that even the unpowered people in his life could prove essential in supporting him in his superhero aspect. Though the end of JMS's run was rocky due to Civil War and OMD, I think that Peter Parker reached a turning point in that he was learning to work with others, and to develop bonds with other superheroes that extended beyond when their masks were on. I think the contrast of Steve Rogers and Tony Stark as substitute father figures would've been interesting to explore if JMS was allowed to continue. JMS's run is what got me back into reading comic books 7 years after I had stopped reading them in high school.
To anyone looking to get into Spider-man, I would highly recommend starting with JMS's run.
Batman:
To me, 'No Mans Land' was a definitive Batman run for me. You got to see Batman stripped of so much of his support structure, and having to learn to adapt his methods for a lawless land, with his rogue's gallery in turn adapting as well. It might seem silly, but a defining moment for Batman, for me, was when he decided to switch from his old smooth utility belt to the bulkier pouches. It was like he was acknowledging that the gritty realities of No Mans Land wouldn't be solved by a Bat-capsule.
For anyone looking to get into Batman, I would highly recommend starting with 'No Mans Land'.
I'll start.
Spider-man:
For me, the definitive Spider-man was JMS's run on Amazing Spider-man. I think JMS presented a wonderful storyline that showed how Peter Parker got in touch with the 'spider' portion of his origins. Also, I think Peter Parker grew as a character. He started off isolated from everyone around him, but eventually grew to accepting that it was ok to let people from his civilian life in on his secret, and finding that even the unpowered people in his life could prove essential in supporting him in his superhero aspect. Though the end of JMS's run was rocky due to Civil War and OMD, I think that Peter Parker reached a turning point in that he was learning to work with others, and to develop bonds with other superheroes that extended beyond when their masks were on. I think the contrast of Steve Rogers and Tony Stark as substitute father figures would've been interesting to explore if JMS was allowed to continue. JMS's run is what got me back into reading comic books 7 years after I had stopped reading them in high school.
To anyone looking to get into Spider-man, I would highly recommend starting with JMS's run.
Batman:
To me, 'No Mans Land' was a definitive Batman run for me. You got to see Batman stripped of so much of his support structure, and having to learn to adapt his methods for a lawless land, with his rogue's gallery in turn adapting as well. It might seem silly, but a defining moment for Batman, for me, was when he decided to switch from his old smooth utility belt to the bulkier pouches. It was like he was acknowledging that the gritty realities of No Mans Land wouldn't be solved by a Bat-capsule.
For anyone looking to get into Batman, I would highly recommend starting with 'No Mans Land'.
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In that time, Superman's villains changed, Luthor became Pesident, he almost died of Kryptonite poisoning after being nearly heartbroken by Lois, his Super-family was well established (especially Steel), Metropolis really became the city of tomorrow, and we got Krypto back into the DCU. Also, in order to get super powered up, Superman flies into the sun for a bit, and becomes this Super-Superman.
The stories were so good, even Loeb's run where Ed McGuinness only drew 4 issues a year, because they didn't try to make Superman godlike. He was written, rather, as a young guy from Kansas with an unflinching moral compass who radiated optimism.
And then it was all thrown away with that shit Azzarello/Jim Lee run and Superman/Batman.
With Daredevil, it would be Bendis' run. He changed the character years before the current trend that most heroes followed, he made Matt a formidable character who just wanted to clean up his place in the world, and was also given his moments to be happy, unlike Brubaker's run.
Up until that point, Wally could top out around a couple of times the speed of sound, couldn't vibrate through objects (without them exploding), and had some confidence issues. And then, over the course of coming to grips with Barry returning from the dead, he is forced to realize that he's deliberately holding back because, sub-consciously for him, the moment he becomes as fast and can do the things that Barry does then he's replaced him. Which is something that Wally never, ever would want to do.
Of course, it's not really Barry (three guesses who it is, first two don't count) and the only way Wally can defeat him is to drop the fucking hammer already on the mental block. And, thus, after this arc he's now as fast as Barry Allen was in his prime. Huge leap forward for the character and one of the better arcs that I've seen from Waid.
There is no better version. God reads this comic.
I would agree with this statement.
Also, regarding Texiken's post about the early 2000 Superman run, is any of this in trade? You've piqued my interest and I'd like to read some of it. I always liked the idea of Lex as president, but I wasn't actively collecting comics at the time, although I was aware of it by proximity.
(Smallville, in general, is very terrible, but I always liked the line by Lex Luthor in season 1 when he was still mostly a good guy, where he says that one day he might like to be president. It was a nice nod to current comic continuity).
god yes. this so much.
also i pretty much consider Young Justice to be the definitive teen super hero comic
All-Star Superman for Superman.
Ultimate Spider-Man for Spiderman.
The Sentry original mini-series for the Sentry.
Extremis
Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. I really can't describe all the ways in which this is brilliant. Just read it and thank me later.
you can find that run in the following trades:
Superman: No Limits
Superman: Endgame
Superman: Critical Condition
Superman: Emperor Joker
Superman: President Lex
Superman: Our Worlds at War
Superman: Return to Krypton
Superman: Ending Battle
i'm not entirely certain that is the correct order nor am i certain if there are more. i know the whole run isn't collected but those should contain the major plot points.
Here is roughly the same stuff issue-wise for cheap bin rummaging (Action Comics and Man of Steel are the best best)
Superman #151-190,
Action Comics 760-810,
Adventures of Superman 585-615
Superman Man of Steel 95-134
And I second the Waid/Wieringo FF run. For a team Waid didn't even want to write, he really made them more cosmic and more family than most writers have in the past 20 years. And the two part Spidey/Human Torch waterpark story is how you write a modern comic.
I mean really, what other super-hero has his own personal army of ninjas?
Green Lantern - Hal Jordan is the definitve Lantern in my eyes, and for as much Johns-hatred as there is here, I'm gonna have to say that his Rebirth-and-beyond reboot of Hal is my favorite so far. Aside from that, the visual look of Neal Adams's Hal remains a personal favorite.
Blue Beetle - I could almost go as far back as the Charlton version of Ted Kord, back when they sort of made it clear that the guy was a cross between Spider Man and Batman. His Crisis on Infinite Earths appearance was also great; he remained "in-character." While the Giffen-Dematteis version is funny, to be sure, that's not the definitive Beetle for me. It's the guy who, in his final moments, discovered the bad guy's entire plan and told Maxwell Lord, very plainly, to "rot in hell."
Nightcrawler - Kurt has never been written better or more consistently than when Claremont was writing him during his Uncanny run. Kurt Wagner is a romantic swashbuckler, and his religion is simply a part of who he is at a fundamental level. When writers bring all of that to the foregound, it makes Nightcrawler seem whiny and obnoxious, sometimes too serious. Sure, he's had his moments of doubt and reflection, but Claremont got it right: that's all secondary.
Gambit - the first favorite X-Man I ever had (before Nightcrawler), and I have to say that he was a much cooler character BEFORE Rogue came to dominate who he is as a person. I think that's the pitfall that most writers have fallen in to; the moment that one character becomes defined by another, they generally lose what makes 'em interesting. I'm fine wth Gambit and Rogue's twisted relationship, but over the last ten or fifteen years, it's all Gambit seems to be known for. I look back to Claremont's early take on him, or even the Jim Lee-written version... that guy was just amazingly cool. Hell, he kicked Wolverine's ass (granted, when Wolvie was not at full power, but I think Remy still has bragging rights). Matter of fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that Claremont's Uncanny versions of most of those characters - Cyclops, Colossus, Kitty Pryde, Storm, Wolverine, etc. - remain the definitve ones.
Please take my advice.
Also, I've been hearing a lot of good things about 2000 AD, but evidently there is a heck of a lot out there. Where would be a good place to start for 2000 AD?
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American Nightmares was a good miniseries, the Ostrander penned ongoing was alright too, and he had a big part in pretty much every good JLA run in the last 20 (almost 30) years. There was also a good little story about him in this year's DC Holiday Special.
But for me, the DEFINITIVE version of J'onn J'onzz is DC: The New Frontier
But my favorite take on the character is really an amalgamation of the Wein, Giffen/DeMatteis, and Jurgens versions. He was a dude with problems, but he still got shit done. Rather than whine about his girl troubles, familial problems, or his weight gain, he slept with his secretary, told his dad to fuck off, and had General Glory put him on a diet and exercise regimen. The bulk of which entailed him kicking the crap out of supervillains and thugs. Personally, I feel recent depictions of the character have just made him whiny, and less fun to read about.
Anyways, my favorite takes on characters would start with All-Star Superman. It's just a great, really upbeat and hopeful depiction of the character, and balances the mythic sci-fi stuff with the smaller character moments really beautifully.
Matt Wagner's Batman is a personal favorite, as I think it has all the things that are key to the character; street-level crime, mystery, and crazy villains.
Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman is basically the only take on the character I ever bother to re-read. He was the first to really give equal weight to Diana's role as a cultural ambassador, as well as a warrior steeped in mythology. Reading his Wonder Woman, you really understand why she belongs next to Batman and Superman.
John Ostrander's Martian Manhunter finally explained the character's history, and gave a great sense of how deeply intertwined, and yet distant, he is from humanity. Ostrander brought him all over the DCU, showing that in some places he's as revered as Superman, delved into the many lives J'onn has led, including one as a cat, and gave him an epic end in DC 1,000,000. Just top notch stuff all the way through.
I've always been fond of Will Pfeiffer's Aquaman. He played him as much more of a superhero than he's traditionally been, amped up his powers in logical ways, and gave him a supporting cast of humans to make him a bit more relatable, and to explore the cultural duality inherent to the character.
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Havok - The early X-Factor version. He was a capable leader, and not written as the little brother trying to get noticed. He wasn't the boyscout Scott was at the time. Actually, Cyclops today kind of reminds me of the way Havok was back then, albeit with the intensity dialed up to 11 most days. Unfortunately, he suffered from a very 90's costume:
Seriously, both a weird partial head condom thing, AND a puffy blue and yellow leather jacket?
Gambit - The pre-Rogue Gambit. The charmer, the schemer, the thief, the man whose intentions were never quite known, and never fully trusted. The guy had a ton of potential when he first arrived on the scene - interesting power, unique look, definitive voice, going on heists with a child-sized Storm. He was the new bad boy encroaching on Wolverine's turf. And then the majority of his character was defined by being Rogue's love interest.... What a waste.
Grimlock and Blaster - From the US Marvel Transformers series in the 80's. Nothing at all like the cartoon, aside from Grimlock's speech patterns, and so, so good. Grimlock became leader of the Autobots after Optimus Prime was killed by a video game wager with Megatron (don't ask). Grimlock was a formidable warrior, but not much of a strategist. He was also an egotist, having fashioned a crown much like 'King Starscream' did in the movie. Blaster - who was not a surfer dude DJ wannabe in the comic, but instead an awesome freedom fighter - often disagreed with Grimlock. The rivalry intensified in each issue, until the blowoff duel. It was, of course, interrupted by the Decepticons, but the build was handled so well. It was great to see two characters who wanted nothing but the best for their people disagree with what the best actually was, and grow to despise each other.
I still find from around issue 20 to 50 of the US Transformers comic to be absolutely wonderful. There are a few "Here's our new toy lineup characters for the year. BUY THEM!" issues, but overall there were some great stories. The supporting cast was also superior to that of the cartoon.
But when he started beating up Odin, that's when his power class was ridiculous. I liked him as the antithesis to Silver Surfer.
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read the agents of atlas mini by jeff parker
and then read the trades for the short lived series
and then you will have read prety much all of agents of atlas
Then buy V. 1 & 2, and the Marvel Boy mini (when it's collected), and you'll be all caught up.
They also appeared in Marvel Adventures Avengers and Thunderbolts, but they're not required reading. They were also in an Avengers v.s. Agents of Atlas mini-series, which will probably be in the next Atlas TPB, as X-Men v.s. Agents of Atlas was included in the second volume.
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stop showing me up
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This was a seminal run for me. I really got into the comics during this period, as opposed to the cartoon. Matter of fact, I stopped reading after Joe Mad left the book. I dug the look of this team, in addition to the team itself (Rogue, Beast, Gambit, Bishop, Cannonball, Psylocke, Angel getting his old wings back, etc.). After the Trial of Gambit, I just didn't care any more.
Please take my advice.
Good point! Havok has long been a favorite of mine, and I always enoyed when he wasn't written as Scott's whiny younger brother. I enjoyed his Australia-era tenure with the X-Men (even though he did often drift too far into that whiny territory sometimes), and Peter David's take on him was indeed fantastic. What got me back into Havok as a character was actually, believe it or not, Chuck Austen's version. I feel like Alex came into his own very well during that period.
Agreed on Wolverine and Gambit, of course.
And as far as both writing AND visuals are concerned, my favorite Cyclops EVER is the Claremont/Paul Smith version. That's just how Cyclops looks to me now, whenever I think of him. And he was SO badass withut being over-the-top... you know, kind of like he is now.
Please take my advice.
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Just try to find whatever Simone wrote, and go from there. And avoid the Oracle mini-series, because it was garbage. Shwarbage even.
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