... Have you ever looked at the research they do at Smogon? The hard data and numbers they crunch monthly? The math they do and the player base they have? I mean... the developers don't care about making a balanced game. At all. They care about making a widely-appealing and fun game that will sell for gangbusters. Smogon is wholly dedicated to having a competitive game and honestly I'm more inclined to trust people who will spend the time figuring out stuff like this
Here's an easy way to get an excellent approximation of the damage dealt by a Pokemon to another. The method given below doesn't even require that you know the actual stats of the Pokemon in question - only their base stats.
First of all, a chart converting a Base stat to the equivalent Damage stat:
Code:
BStat DStat
5 2.19
10 2.67
15 3.14
20 3.62
25 4.10
30 4.57
35 5.05
40 5.52
45 6.00
50 6.48
55 6.95
60 7.43
65 7.90
70 8.38
75 8.86
80 9.33
85 9.81
90 10.29
95 10.76
100 11.24
105 11.71
110 12.19
115 12.67
120 13.14
125 13.62
130 14.10
135 14.57
140 15.05
145 15.52
150 16.00
160 16.95
165 17.43
170 17.90
180 18.86
190 19.81
200 20.76
230 23.62
250 25.52
255 26.00
Stat ±2 ±0.19
Stat ±4 ±0.38
252 EVs +3.00
HP +5.00
Atk/SpA x4.00
The above table is to convert the Def or SpD base stat. To convert the base HP stat, just add 5 to the corresponding number, and if you want to convert the base Atk or SpA stat, just multiply the number by 4. You'll first need to do the additions and subtractions before performing any multiplications or divisions in order for the method to work, however.
If the stat you want is not on the list (say you have a Pokemon with 88 SpA or 144 HP or 77 SpD or whatever), you add or subtract 0.19 if you want to add or subtract 2 from the stat, and twice that (0.38) if you want to add or subtract 4.
So 77 SpD corresponds to 8.86, the stat for 75, + 0.19 = 9.05.
144 HP corresponds to 15.05, the stat for 140, + 0.38, + 5 (since this is HP) = 20.43.
88 SpA corresponds to 10.29, the stat for 90, -0.19, x4 (since this is SpA) = 40.4 (remember you first perform the subtraction and then the multiplication).
If you have 252 EVs in a stat, you add 3. Simple as that. This means that you add 1/21, or 0.0476, for every 4 EVs you have. You can also understand it as dividing the EVs by 84 and adding that to the damage stat.
Any boosts in damage or in stats, be them due to nature, STAB, item, ability, or whatever are multiplied normally.
After doing all this, the percentage maximum damage dealt is then simply
Code:
Max Damage = (DAtk x MovePower) / (DHP x DDef)
The min damage is just 0.85 multiplied by the max damage. You don't even need to convert it to a percentage; the answer is already a percentage!
Let's give an example.
Quoting part of a post by MoP:
Quote:
438 attack vs 276 defense, 120 power(*1.5), 321 max HP: 63.86% - 75.08%
438 for Modest Special Attack. Palkia's min Special Defense is 276 along with 321 HP. The *1.5 represents Choice Specs.
So we have Choice Specs Modest Kyogre with 252 SpA EVs using Thunder against 0/0 Palkia. Notice that he had to find Kyogre's attacking stat (438) and Palkia's HP and SpD stats (321 and 276).
The method above would work as follows:
Kyogre's base SpA is 150. 150 corresponds to a damage stat of 16.00. We add 3 due to having 252 EVs, so we have 19. We multiply by 4 since this is the SpA stat, so we have 76. We multiply by 1.1 since this is Modest, so we have 83.6. We then multiply by 1.5 due to Choice Specs, so we have 125.4.
Palkia's base HP is 90. 90 corresponds to a damage stat of 10.29. We add 5 since this is the HP stat, so we have 15.29.
Palkia's base SpD is 120. 120 corresponds to a damage stat of 13.14.
So max damage is (125.4 x 120) / (15.29 x 13.14) = 74.90%. Min damage is 74.9% x 0.85 = 63.66%. So I'm about 0.2% off the real damage.
Another example (taken from a post by Gothic Togekiss:)
Quote:
CAP6 Thunder Punch vs 124 HP / 252 Def Bold Milotic: 37.57% - 44.20%
We have the latest CAP Pokemon having 110 base Atk with 252 EVs in Atk and a beneficiary nature using Thunderpunch against a 124/252 Bold Milotic. Milotic's base HP and Def are 95 and 79 respectively.
So we have:
CAP6's base Atk is 110, which corresponds to 12.19. We have 252 EVs so we add 3: 15.19. Since this is Atk, we multiply by 4: 60.76. We multiply by 1.1 since it has a beneficial nature: 66.84. We further multiply by 2 since Thunderpunch is supereffective: 133.68.
Milotic's base HP is 95, which corresponds to 10.76. We add 5 since this is HP: 15.76. We also add 124 / 84 = 1.48 since it has 124 HP EVs, getting 17.24.
Milotic's base Def is 79, which corresponds to 8.86 + 0.38 = 9.24. We add 3 since we have 252 EVs: 12.24. We multiply by 1.1 since this is Bold: 13.46.
Hence, the maximum damage would be (133.68 x 75) / (17.24 x 13.46) = 43.21%. The minimum damage would be 43.2 x 0.85 = 36.73%. So we're only 1% off the real damage.
If you want a decent but simple damage calculator using just the base stats of the Pokemon in question, give this a try.
than a random person on the internet who hasn't put nearly as much time into it and dismisses it because they don't play competatively.
You don't have to like it but don't assume they aren't putting serious time and effort into this stuff.
Huh. The Tier lists always amuse me. It's 100% pure scrub country -- "Zomg, Wobbuffet is soooo not fair, my special sweeper with all 31 IVs and perfect EVs loses to some random pokemon someone got off the street! HAX BANN!!!~~1"
Then I noticed Garchomp is on there, and I o.O;'d.
Did you ever look at the reason why the stuff was banned? It went through extensive testing processes and had reams of evidence and numbers to back up almost every change. Wobbuffet's power is not that it can KO, plenty of pokemon can do that, its Shadow Tag. Its essentially a free switch and allows you to dominate the metagame with a modicum of skill, I think I have a few threads from smogon saved that showed pretty conclusively how bad this was.
It's because Wobby can easily shut down a ton of pokemon and give you two kills for the cost of one pokemon. A great deal.
Garchomp is another pokemon that needs an answer if it was just a little bit slower or a little less powerful it wouldn't be as big a deal, but it just has those two great stats that make it the ideal sweeper.
It's also not entirely fair to say the developers don't care at all about balance. They do. They have base stat totals that for most pokemon work out so that similar pokemon end up being decent counters for other pokemon with the same totals. It's just that some types/abilities/and movepools with the right stat focus end up being just a bit too much.
Garchomp is supposed to be a rare, hard to raise but eventually legendary caliber pokemon like the rest of the end of the pokedex dragons from the previous games. He's kinda predestined for the tier he eventually ended up in and it's not like Salamance/Dragonite/Tyranitar can't hang there either because they are all right on the cusp.
This is not an MMO and a Caterpie or Unown is not a good fight against Mewtwo or Palkia, but that's life. Its still pretty balanced for a turn based fighting game with 500 characters.
I've asked this before, but..... are stones rewarded via the bug catching contest always sun stones? I have never won anything but sun stones, and they are basically the one kind I dont have a use for.... :?
I've asked this before, but..... are stones rewarded via the bug catching contest always sun stones? I have never won anything but sun stones, and they are basically the one kind I dont have a use for.... :?
until you have the national dex, you will only get sun stones
I really, REALLY, really should have spent time farming that before doing the E4 as I still have zero sun stones.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2010
I find it immensely naive to think that the developers do not care about balance.
If you ever played the games with any level of understanding, you'd realize that they created two different packages:
One that is simple and charming to young audiences.
And one that is deeply appealing on a strategic level.
Just take a second to think about all the complexities hard-coded into the games that are difficult for adults to grasp, let alone eight year old kids.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
True, hence the introduction of the Dark and Steel types to combat the very dominant Psychic type from gen 1. And they do care about balance, but not exclusively and not nearly enough to make it the central design theme. I mean look at stealth rock alone, the mere fact it can hit some Pokemon on the switch-in for HALF their health and is countered by a tiny minority of pokemon, few of which are any good says a lot about how well tested it was. Or how widely its been distributed. And that's not even getting into the still existant crazy imbalances in the type chart.
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than a random person on the internet who hasn't put nearly as much time into it and dismisses it because they don't play competatively.
You don't have to like it but don't assume they aren't putting serious time and effort into this stuff.
It's because Wobby can easily shut down a ton of pokemon and give you two kills for the cost of one pokemon. A great deal.
Garchomp is another pokemon that needs an answer if it was just a little bit slower or a little less powerful it wouldn't be as big a deal, but it just has those two great stats that make it the ideal sweeper.
It's also not entirely fair to say the developers don't care at all about balance. They do. They have base stat totals that for most pokemon work out so that similar pokemon end up being decent counters for other pokemon with the same totals. It's just that some types/abilities/and movepools with the right stat focus end up being just a bit too much.
Garchomp is supposed to be a rare, hard to raise but eventually legendary caliber pokemon like the rest of the end of the pokedex dragons from the previous games. He's kinda predestined for the tier he eventually ended up in and it's not like Salamance/Dragonite/Tyranitar can't hang there either because they are all right on the cusp.
This is not an MMO and a Caterpie or Unown is not a good fight against Mewtwo or Palkia, but that's life. Its still pretty balanced for a turn based fighting game with 500 characters.
plus, like shown, more than enough objective evidence
On the other hand, why on earth would anybody put so much effort into pokemon
I know it's a complicated strategy game and all that, but really?
until you have the national dex, you will only get sun stones
afterwards, any stone
If you ever played the games with any level of understanding, you'd realize that they created two different packages:
One that is simple and charming to young audiences.
And one that is deeply appealing on a strategic level.
Just take a second to think about all the complexities hard-coded into the games that are difficult for adults to grasp, let alone eight year old kids.