Also, Abel's EX tornado throw is the most frustrating move ever.
I highly suggest you never play me then.
I have played you. Every Abel on this forum (and in general online) uses EX-TT way more than I've ever seen in a tourney match. Not that I blame them... if it works use it.
i am having lots of trouble against G1 sagats who just spam crouching jabs and shorts when they're in close, with the occasional tiger knee as well. they're not even linking them, but the blockstun is such that i am at a frame disadvantage, apparently; none of my normals seem to beat them. and those normals will stuff an EX scissor kick or PC, as well.
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*annoying nitpick on* c.lkx3 XX legs has no links. In fact, you can't link her crouching short kicks (sans counterhit or meaty)... but that doesn't matter because technically, you can't special/super cancel them either!
Well, like I said I don't play Chun-Li :P
But what the hell combo am I thinking of then? I thought they wouldn't be chainable because then you wouldn't be able to cancel into legs.
You got the combo right. She can cancel cr.short into legs/ex legs (out of a chain combo no less) simply BECAUSE... but you can't cancel into any other special/super. It's one of those weird normals that don't quite work the same as others of the same type. Both Gief and Gouken's far standing lightkick (I think gouken's cr.short too?) are chainable but only INTO a far standing lightkick, not OUT of the move. So you can do cr.jabX3 chain far standing lk, but you couldn't do far standing lk X2 or whatever (well gief can, but that's because you can LINK his far standing lk :P... gouken can't).
It is not a cancel like how moves cancel, because you cannot cancel c.lk at all. It's the property of mash moves. Because you can chain c.lk into itself, you can do it over and over and over. When you reach five kicks in the input window, it simply replaces your next short with legs. c.mk xx legs is a cancel. c.short is a weird replacement thing.
speaking of sagat, some random news about him in super (from GAF):
Sagat can combo into sweep. EX Tiger Shot into U2 works fullscreen. EX Tiger Knee combos into U2, and CH HK xx Angry Scar into Ultra works. Like Alioune said,they made close HK special cancellable, lol.
I'm going to guess Sagat's sweep is now 6 or 7 frame startup (currently 8) which'll let it combo off of a standing far/close jab (respectively)... which seems to be the "norm" as far as sweep combos go.
EX TS into U2 is pretty damn scary. Sort of makes sense why the damage is fairly garbage. Close HK being special cancellable is... O_o. I'm wondering if it's just the first hit, 2nd hit... or both.
I'm pretty sure we knew about EX Tiger Shot into U2 before and it doesn't connect for the full Ultra (it does that thing where the projectile does most of it's hits and then moves on rather than exploding on the last hit). I *think* only the first hit of Sagat's close HK will be super cancelable. That seems to be the norm for two hit cancelable normals.
speaking of sagat, some random news about him in super (from GAF):
Sagat can combo into sweep. EX Tiger Shot into U2 works fullscreen. EX Tiger Knee combos into U2, and CH HK xx Angry Scar into Ultra works. Like Alioune said,they made close HK special cancellable, lol.
I'm going to guess Sagat's sweep is now 6 or 7 frame startup (currently 8) which'll let it combo off of a standing far/close jab (respectively)... which seems to be the "norm" as far as sweep combos go.
EX TS into U2 is pretty damn scary. Sort of makes sense why the damage is fairly garbage. Close HK being special cancellable is... O_o. I'm wondering if it's just the first hit, 2nd hit... or both.
I'm pretty sure we knew about EX Tiger Shot into U2 before and it doesn't connect for the full Ultra (it does that thing where the projectile does most of it's hits and then moves on rather than exploding on the last hit). I *think* only the first hit of Sagat's close HK will be super cancelable. That seems to be the norm for two hit cancelable normals.
oh, I haven't seen the EX ts into U2 yet. Also, Seth and Abel's cr.fp you can cancel on the first or second hit, also Chun Li's standing close strong (double slap!). It'll probably be only the first hit though since that's how his (new) far standing short is IIRC.
I don't remember you aBlank, do you have a different tag online? Also who do you main?
Edit: Wait, I think you main Chun, I vaguely recall. Is your tag the same?
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Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
i am having lots of trouble against G1 sagats who just spam crouching jabs and shorts when they're in close, with the occasional tiger knee as well. they're not even linking them, but the blockstun is such that i am at a frame disadvantage, apparently; none of my normals seem to beat them. and those normals will stuff an EX scissor kick or PC, as well.
Yeah bison has a lot of trouble against Sagat close footsies. Bison doesn't have high priority close in footsies to beat sagat c.lp something like Ryu's c.sp or c.mk. Bison c.lk and Sagat c.lk have about the same range and priority.
Sagat's cr.short is a 4 frame move IIRC, so Bison has the advantage there. Start using Bison's st.forward more and keep in its far range if you're having trouble against his cr.jab/cr.short
I don't remember you aBlank, do you have a different tag online? Also who do you main?
Edit: Wait, I think you main Chun, I vaguely recall. Is your tag the same?
Blankosaurus. Don't recall if I used Chun or Ken against you (probably both), was a while ago.
Sagat's cr.short is a 4 frame move IIRC, so Bison has the advantage there. Start using Bison's st.forward more and keep in its far range if you're having trouble against his cr.jab/cr.short
his cr.short is actually 5 frames (as in, it hits on the 5th frame) but what makes it godly is it grants +3 on block... so if he times it right, there's literally no normal you can press that'll beat out a cr.short -> cr.short. You'll just get counter-hit. It's a frame trap basically.
His jab doesn't have nearly the same advantage. It's 0 on block and 3 startup which means if Bison does a cr.short at just the right time, you will get a trade (clarification, I'm talking about going from cr.jab to cr.jab as Sagat). If they follow a cr.short with a cr.jab (with perfect timing) it's actually a "true" block string which is why it generally sees use.
Semi-counter productive, but it tends to be really easy to back dash out of Sagat pressure (provided you aren't in the corner and don't mind trying to find a way back in on him through all his fireballs). I'm honestly surprised EX psycho/scissors were outright losing. I didn't think you could lose to Sagat's cr.short (they'd be invulnerable in startup and should be "over" it) but I could see trading/losing to jab. I'd chalk that up to bad luck more than anything else.
So adult swim is having a bloc party right outside of ASU's campus and guess what is going to be playable??? SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV!!! God I hope there aren't long lines.
Yeah bison has a lot of trouble against Sagat close footsies. Bison doesn't have high priority close in footsies to beat sagat c.lp something like Ryu's c.sp or c.mk. Bison c.lk and Sagat c.lk have about the same range and priority.
Standing HK .
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Bison is helpless on wakeup. (READ: I am lord scrubington nubsworth the third)
Bison does however have this bizarro crossup that hits behind while he's above and in front of you.
Playing SF4 makes my sutures bleed.
he's not quite helpless; he can EX scissor or EX psycho crusher as a reversal with invincibility, and he can EX devil reverse as an escape with invincibility, or teleport.
jumping in on bison when he's knocked down is pretty safe though.
Things like this scare me, TomxthexTank is a friend of mine from high school.
We do alot of player matches, ever since her realized he could ex-grab me with Gief out of my ultra it's been a very scary time.
Yeah bison has a lot of trouble against Sagat close footsies. Bison doesn't have high priority close in footsies to beat sagat c.lp something like Ryu's c.sp or c.mk. Bison c.lk and Sagat c.lk have about the same range and priority.
Standing HK .
my standing HK would be stuffed by any of sagat's light normals when i tried it.
Things like this scare me, TomxthexTank is a friend of mine from high school.
We do alot of player matches, ever since her realized he could ex-grab me with Gief out of my ultra it's been a very scary time.
I mean just normal grab. Unless Fuerte has some wierd super long range grab or something? My feet were definitely in the air.
Yeah bison has a lot of trouble against Sagat close footsies. Bison doesn't have high priority close in footsies to beat sagat c.lp something like Ryu's c.sp or c.mk. Bison c.lk and Sagat c.lk have about the same range and priority.
Standing HK .
my standing HK would be stuffed by any of sagat's light normals when i tried it.
Not if you swing first and are close enough. It requires anticipating and pressuring him, but otherwise yes, you're stuffed.
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XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Yeah bison has a lot of trouble against Sagat close footsies. Bison doesn't have high priority close in footsies to beat sagat c.lp something like Ryu's c.sp or c.mk. Bison c.lk and Sagat c.lk have about the same range and priority.
Standing HK .
my standing HK would be stuffed by any of sagat's light normals when i tried it.
Not if you swing first and are close enough. It requires anticipating and pressuring him, but otherwise yes, you're stuffed.
the problem is more when he's pressuring me; when he's got the frame advantage, i have no choice but to block, backdash, maybe jump, teleport, etc.
So adult swim is having a bloc party right outside of ASU's campus and guess what is going to be playable??? SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV!!! God I hope there aren't long lines.
Do you play Gen? Because if so I expect a full report on his current state.
Every time there's another playtest he seems to have changed even more, and for the worse.
Guys, guys, you remember the jubilation that was of Sagat getting nerfed in Super?
Well, that's kinda true and kinda not true at the same time.
Sagat's not dumb anymore getting off easy from tons of health and tons of damage from simple stupid moves, but let's just say Capcom didn't exactly nerf him...
Got some info from French players who got to play the game early, and it's not pretty...
Sagat can combo into sweep. EX Tiger Shot into U2 works fullscreen. EX Tiger Knee combos into U2, and CH HK xx Angry Scar into Ultra works. Like Alioune said,they made close HK special cancellable, lol.
Sagat is a combo machine, equal to Akuma now.
And yes, you read that right, st.HK can now be cancelled so Gief and Honda mainers might want to get some tissues for the future rapings by Sagat.
In summary, Capcom nerfed Sagat so that dumb players will move away from Sagat, and buffed Sagat so that great players will continue maining him.
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I have played you. Every Abel on this forum (and in general online) uses EX-TT way more than I've ever seen in a tourney match. Not that I blame them... if it works use it.
It is not a cancel like how moves cancel, because you cannot cancel c.lk at all. It's the property of mash moves. Because you can chain c.lk into itself, you can do it over and over and over. When you reach five kicks in the input window, it simply replaces your next short with legs. c.mk xx legs is a cancel. c.short is a weird replacement thing.
I'm pretty sure we knew about EX Tiger Shot into U2 before and it doesn't connect for the full Ultra (it does that thing where the projectile does most of it's hits and then moves on rather than exploding on the last hit). I *think* only the first hit of Sagat's close HK will be super cancelable. That seems to be the norm for two hit cancelable normals.
oh, I haven't seen the EX ts into U2 yet. Also, Seth and Abel's cr.fp you can cancel on the first or second hit, also Chun Li's standing close strong (double slap!). It'll probably be only the first hit though since that's how his (new) far standing short is IIRC.
Edit: Wait, I think you main Chun, I vaguely recall. Is your tag the same?
Today is a good day.
Edit: make that 2 in a row.
Yeah bison has a lot of trouble against Sagat close footsies. Bison doesn't have high priority close in footsies to beat sagat c.lp something like Ryu's c.sp or c.mk. Bison c.lk and Sagat c.lk have about the same range and priority.
Blankosaurus. Don't recall if I used Chun or Ken against you (probably both), was a while ago.
his cr.short is actually 5 frames (as in, it hits on the 5th frame) but what makes it godly is it grants +3 on block... so if he times it right, there's literally no normal you can press that'll beat out a cr.short -> cr.short. You'll just get counter-hit. It's a frame trap basically.
His jab doesn't have nearly the same advantage. It's 0 on block and 3 startup which means if Bison does a cr.short at just the right time, you will get a trade (clarification, I'm talking about going from cr.jab to cr.jab as Sagat). If they follow a cr.short with a cr.jab (with perfect timing) it's actually a "true" block string which is why it generally sees use.
Semi-counter productive, but it tends to be really easy to back dash out of Sagat pressure (provided you aren't in the corner and don't mind trying to find a way back in on him through all his fireballs). I'm honestly surprised EX psycho/scissors were outright losing. I didn't think you could lose to Sagat's cr.short (they'd be invulnerable in startup and should be "over" it) but I could see trading/losing to jab. I'd chalk that up to bad luck more than anything else.
EDIT: Or HDR? Or MvC2? ... Or GGPO?
oooo hdr!
I'll be on in a little less than 15 minutes.
Oh, and... that was fun!
Bison can be grabbed out of Knee Press mid flip.
Bison is helpless on wakeup. (READ: I am lord scrubington nubsworth the third)
Bison does however have this bizarro crossup that hits behind while he's above and in front of you.
Playing SF4 makes my sutures bleed.
I love south american ground karate
Standing HK
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
he's not quite helpless; he can EX scissor or EX psycho crusher as a reversal with invincibility, and he can EX devil reverse as an escape with invincibility, or teleport.
jumping in on bison when he's knocked down is pretty safe though.
We do alot of player matches, ever since her realized he could ex-grab me with Gief out of my ultra it's been a very scary time.
my standing HK would be stuffed by any of sagat's light normals when i tried it.
Be more careful Blanka.
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I mean just normal grab. Unless Fuerte has some wierd super long range grab or something? My feet were definitely in the air.
That means you're not spacing the scissor kick right, either doing to close or using the wrong strength of kick.
If you're that close where he can grab you out of it, you should be using standing mk or hk instead.
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not necessarily. scissors pressure can leave openings for being thrown out of scissors.
Not if you swing first and are close enough. It requires anticipating and pressuring him, but otherwise yes, you're stuffed.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
the problem is more when he's pressuring me; when he's got the frame advantage, i have no choice but to block, backdash, maybe jump, teleport, etc.
Do you play Gen? Because if so I expect a full report on his current state.
Every time there's another playtest he seems to have changed even more, and for the worse.
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Pics?
When I get the whole thing done!
uh... if no one else is going to say anything
^5 dude
Well, that's kinda true and kinda not true at the same time.
Sagat's not dumb anymore getting off easy from tons of health and tons of damage from simple stupid moves, but let's just say Capcom didn't exactly nerf him...
Sagat is a combo machine, equal to Akuma now.
And yes, you read that right, st.HK can now be cancelled so Gief and Honda mainers might want to get some tissues for the future rapings by Sagat.
In summary, Capcom nerfed Sagat so that dumb players will move away from Sagat, and buffed Sagat so that great players will continue maining him.
XBL Gametag: mailarde
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i hope i put up something of an entertaining fight, even though you annihilated me 36 times
your crossups against bison are deadly, but what do you do when someone plays a shoto or similar and autocorrects DPs against crossups?
no, wait, i know. standing HK.