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Return of the Dark: Attempted Redemption Edition [Updates on Pg 7 & 8]
DarkWarrior
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UPDATED: Studies from art books and some old art.
OLD STUFF:
So I decided I wanted to try a webcomic buttttttttt its harder than I thought it'd be. Or I'm not very efficient, either way it seems to take me a long time to turn one around. I had wanted to perfect them a little more before posting them here but decided that it was time I got some independent opinions before I continued to produce them. The theme is games and movies but there will be/are some stories related to neither.
For instance theres a Dragon Age comic here that my two female friends who haven't played it didn't get. Doesn't mean its funny but they didn't even get the context so who knows. So...bear with me basically, hope you enjoy what I've done so far. I'm testing stuff at the minute so frames change a little, layouts change, the first comic has coloured eyes for example but I deicded that was just extra busy work that made the production take longer.
Re-Incident
Dragon-Laid
Anomaly Rising
Scott Pilgrim Vs The Cops
Eye-watering
Okay so lets try this again. Im sure many of you thought you were being positively critical but you weren't, you were being mean doody heads. However, it did make me go away and work through some art books which is a good thing I guess, so thankyou. So here are...I think 15 pages of readings from them so far and in the interim Ive worked on more comic scripts which I think rectify a lot of the complaints that were given so when Ive worked through some more sketches (Next up is the female face then anatomy) I will attempt to draw up comics again.
I'm aware of four things:
1) I need a ruler
2) I need a pencil sharpener
3) Some of the eyes are wonky, thats my fault for drawing while on my side onto a flat surface.
4) Some of the images seem shorter than they do on paper, don't know if thats my eyes but I know at least one face looks squashed.
Thanks Squid.
Since Ive got a scanner now, heres some much older stuff, from 2002. I'm mostly proud of the Hobgoblin, I just think he looks cool. A few comic book studies and then some original stuff.
OLD STUFF:
So I decided I wanted to try a webcomic buttttttttt its harder than I thought it'd be. Or I'm not very efficient, either way it seems to take me a long time to turn one around. I had wanted to perfect them a little more before posting them here but decided that it was time I got some independent opinions before I continued to produce them. The theme is games and movies but there will be/are some stories related to neither.
For instance theres a Dragon Age comic here that my two female friends who haven't played it didn't get. Doesn't mean its funny but they didn't even get the context so who knows. So...bear with me basically, hope you enjoy what I've done so far. I'm testing stuff at the minute so frames change a little, layouts change, the first comic has coloured eyes for example but I deicded that was just extra busy work that made the production take longer.
Re-Incident
Dragon-Laid
Anomaly Rising
Scott Pilgrim Vs The Cops
Eye-watering
DarkWarrior on
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Although, while neither the art (stylistically speaking) or the premise are original, the writing... is not terrible. It certainly could use improvement, but the Alice in Wonderland one got a chuckle out of me - although it feels like it could have been comfortable in three panels rather than four.
Work on developing your drawing skills, without focusing on webcomics, and your 'style' will come naturally. However, if you insist on continuing to draw comics, check out the books of Scott Kurtz; they contain an abundance of information useful for everything from strip comics to graphic novels.
Don't copy Penny Arcade. Try to think up something more original (in terms of premise...and in terms of the art style). Your comic is dripping with PA influence. I think you should really try to develop something that's more your own style if you want to stick out, and also so your comic may be taken as something more than simply "a PA imitator".
Either way Im not sure I can change the art style without changing the way I draw, I can only draw this way and anime style.
As for the gamer guy formula, I agree, and tbh I don't really play as many games as I used to, I intended to make some game jokes but rely heavily on movies, tv and music which I do engage in frequently plus the side-stories like comic 3 which arise from my daily life so I'd hope it'd be unique in that way.
I somewhat agree on the Alice comic, the 4-panel setup requires...well 4 panels and I felt the setup was adequate to establish what was going on but you're right, it could be reduced to 3.
As for Scott Kurtz, his style seems similar to this as well as does Kris Straub's, not sure what I can learn from them.
Thanks for the crits though guys, I'm glad I got a chuckle out of you Flay.
EDIT: Actually, at the minute, theres only one gamer related comic there.
I find it difficult to believe that you have managed to derive almost identical colour schemes, the identical nose, mouth, chin and neck simply by using the same inspirations.
Also, you clearly haven't understood why I suggested Scott Kurtz. Kurtz has written several books on the structure and foundation of comics - the underlying things which allow us to comprehend comics in the first place. I was not proposing that you should copy his style instead of Krahulik's.
EDIT:
... Huh?
The simple fact is you will need to change the way you draw. Being able to only draw cartoons and anime is not a good thing. They are both stylizations - they break the rules of reality and make them conform to the artist's tastes. To break the rules effectively you need to know what the rules are in the first place. You're putting the cart before the horse at the moment, you need to slow down and learn the basics.
Flay, I appreciate your input, but please stop implying I stole his style. The mouth is classic Hannah-Barbera, as are the eyes, the nose is the way I draw anime noses except not pointed because...well...he looked stupid with a pointed nose. Neck is... a neck, I'm not quite sure what you mean there and chin...its a pointed chin...every anime character I draw has a pointed chin, face shape is different so isolating the chin as similar seems...I dunno. I can go dig out a few anime drawings I've done if you'd like. As for colour scheme...again I'm not sure what you mean, skin tone or flat colours? I tried using brighter colours but they looked...jarring, and I noticed a lot of webcomics tended to use these more sedate tones and in practice they worked best for me.
Actually here you go.
Its all kind of dated, years old, but still.
EDIT:
I'm not following, why is being able to draw cartoons a bad thing when you're trying to do a webcomic?
EDIT2:
I did practice the hair mind you, took me ages to make that look right.
I see nothing in that suggests a progression to your current style in that spoiler. And irrespective of what influences you may have used, as it stands your comics bear a striking likeness Krahulik's work. A webcomic's success is largely based on its individuality; you need to define your work or this will hold you back.
Being able to draw cartoons is not a bad thing. Being able to draw cartoons, and cartoons only is a bad thing. It forces you in to a rigid style without you understanding why you're actually doing what you're doing in the first place. What I'm saying is that drawing from life, and diversifying your subject matter will allow you to draw cartoons more effectively, because you can apply what you know - how a hand looks from different angles, the proportions of the head, etc - from reality to your cartoons.
Imitating another's style is not something frowned upon (forgery is another matter, but that's not what I'm talking about). I've certainly done so. A lot of artists begin this way, and it can teach you some very valuable lessons, if you approach it correctly. But this should be combined with individual experimentation and drawing from reality, otherwise these lessons won't be nearly as valuable as they could have been.
BTW, out of curiosity did you get the Dragon Age one? Or find anything humorous about the others?
EDIT: they used to have all 5 fingers but it was just extra effort like the eyes, so I reduced them to the regular cartoon 4.
I got the dragon age comic, but I think it'd have been funnier if the last panel wasn't there.
You don't find them funny at all? Then again you can't please everyone.
Anyone have any comments on the actual content?
I've written fairly extensive posts on the construction of humor and on comic lettering for other posters. I need to grab those posts and put them together so I can direct new folks to them as they post their comics.
As Metal pointed out, none of these things are worth a damn if the comics aren't funny, which they aren't. But your just starting, and if you look back at how PA started, they weren't that great either.
That being said, the strips are extremely PA-like, and there really isn't any shame in that. I don't get the touchiness you're exhibiting, as it seems you know already that they are indeed influenced by them. But yes, many, if not all of us here, starting our journey of learning to draw by compiling notebooks of poorly rendered anime scratchings. The sooner you steer away from this, the sooner you will get some real improvement and results.
You've got skill, and from looking at what you've posted of your past work, you'll eventually harness your own style and blaze a path of your own originality. Until you wean yourself off replicating anime/PA/comics you just won't gain the understanding of fundamentals. Still lifes, and figure drawing will do you wonders. Your ability to render is good, and clean, so keep at it and you'll be fine.
INSTAGRAM
I put a lot of effort into these and refining them, when I talked about efficiency in the OP, these generally take several hours to sort out because I kept going back and erasing and redrawing, observing, interpreting, etc. So it irks me when the only feedback I get is "its like PA and Mike owns that style". I apologise if I sounded touchy but it really wasn't what I was expecting. Legitimate criticisms of the art? Sure. That it uses a cartoon style copyrighted by Mike about 30 years before he was born? That upsets me.
Line weight I cant do anything about, I dont know why but the tablet pressure levels don't seem to work in Photoshop CS4 so they just stay at whatever the brush weight is. I'd like to if someone knows a fix for it because erasing lines to get finer points is time consuming.
What is it about still life drawings and such that you mention? How will they enhance my ability with cartoon style stuff? I know its my own stuff but I felt that the poses and such were quite clear in what i was trying to get the characters to convey. I mean I can go more freeform but I don't know how to because I like how my two main characters look, more so the spiky hair guy over brown-hair guy. Not sure how much I could change him while retaining him.
Its a shame you don't find any of them funny though, I would think you could get a chuckle out of one of them.
Wow...that is just...wow.
Something that is just out of the question.
I'll trade you this information for a Manaphy pokemon.
The pressure thing won;t work? It worked fantastically in the Bamboo demo program.
I only do thje original 150. The rest are pretenders.
It could. But that doesn't mean its the only way to get the lines to change.
Here's a good example on the traditional way to do this kind of thing. Yes, it is traditional but that doesn't mean it won't help you understand just how important this is and, so if you have to do it manually or if you get it to work with the tablet. The important thing is that you do it.
http://www.teamspecialolympics.com/tutorials.php?id=12921
Seems simple enough,
Just take the pointers people have given you and draw each strip with one goal in mind: "this is going to be the strip with the best line weight," "this is going to be the strip with the best proportions" and so on, and eventually you'll find that the overall quality of your strips will improve.
You don't need a fancy tablet to achieve this, it's simply a matter of consciously placing a thicker line here or a thinner one there. Granted, if you have a tablet it can make it feel more like inking with a traditional brush, it's not the only way to achieve the effect.
Lastly, I know it sucks to admit, but when people see your comic their first thought is going to be "This is a PA clone", and you can argue your visual influences till the sun sets, but as it stands now it won't change a reader's first impression. If you're ok with looking like a PA rip off, then don't sweat the art. But if you wanna be known for something your own, you should consider stretching your art muscles.
I dont really like any of those designs as much as my current one, except for the eyebrows. I cant seem to draw good eyebrows. I had a go with line weights on the left most one but it was a very quick 'go' so it will look rough as buggery. Im not sure about proportions with cartoony stuff, I felt they were decently ok. In that Dragon Age one, they're distinctly different sizes on purpose, different races and all.
I wouldn't mind some more comments on the actual content beyond "dont like it". THe art may be capable of improvement but I'm content its better than at least some webcomic art I've seen. If its not funny then theres no point at all. Unless I do my post-apocalyptic story, which is suitably bitter.
That sucks, I like this style. If anything its a PVP clone, I studied his tweetbat thing a lot for poses, hence the cape in the first one.
Not even the Dragon Age one? I know its based on a game but I'd think its understandable by people who haven't. The Morrigan-bag just makes me laugh.
Are there any which you think could be improved by a slight change in dialogue or something? Im just curious what it is that is missing.
"who here will fuck me?" (spoken from one dude to what looks like a group full of dudes)
(shortest hairiest dude): "I will." -cue light laughtrack-
"alright, but wear this paperbag." -cue heavier laughtrack-
random panel of a titty monster apparently disgusted by homosexuality? -cue awkward laugh track-
also, I think you need to read this. you seemed to have missed on the way in here.
I'm not sure if you've done this, but try to do some character sketches for your characters. It should help you make them deeper than just the "Ridiculous guy and the Straight guy"
Like I said, it would be better with one less panel.
Neithers really a straight-man, just ones slightly more responsible than the psychotic one.
You might get it if youve played it, shes essentially a horrible, slimy, gross, dripping tentacle monster and she has her minions spying on your troup throughout the game. Maybe if I added a Meanwhile or something. I just thought it was funny the big, horrible, 8 breasted creature being grossed out by the elf and dwarf getting it on.
There's really not one magic thing you can do to fix these. They're all fundamentally flawed. Sure you're aiming at a niche audience, but it's not really a good strip if there isn't some sort of universally funny element.
Have you read Understanding Comics yet? It covers a lot of the basics of what makes a good comic and it's an entertaining read.
INSTAGRAM
Is that a book?
I notice you have nothing but useful things to contribute to this thread.
Now thats a joke.
yeah, there's that, and the paper bag thing, and the guy trying to find volunteers for sex, the eager dwarf...
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: Like electrical resistors placed in parallel, the overall humor of your strip will never be as funny as the least funny joke.
I wasn't actually trying to make each panel a joke, the only punchline is supposed to be the final panel, the rest was just supposed to be setup.
Or you can think to yourself, "this is a really shitty strip here, but I have a lot of jokes here that I can cultivate into something funny."
Im not excusing it, Im just explaining that I wasn't consciously attempting to put a punchline in each panel.
Okay now try that other thing I told you