I have never voted to kick anyone for crappy dps, only crappy attitude.
In other news, I queue my cat durid for FoS every day, hunting that damn scorpion. The only time it's dropped it went to the tank. It is the item that put me over the edge on the "screw it, I'm needing offspec" debate. I crave more penetration!
I've never voted to kick DPS. I have, however, voted to kick healers before. Most notably a 32k mana holy pally who couldn't keep a 60k hp warrior alive (in the beginning of OK) and a resto shaman who kept letting himself die on Garfrost.
Why is this the healers fault? Ok, if the tank pulled only one group the pally could probably heal the 48k between two Shadow Blasts, but even then an interrupt or spell reflect (or just focusing the mob so it doesn't cast twice) seems like the better choice to me.
I think the DE tool was implemented at the same time as the LFD tool. The LFD tool has changed instance running from a social experience to a production line. Even if the DE tool had never been implemented, I'm not sure you can safely assume that your friendly neighborhood enchanter is just going to hang around and hand out shards once the run (during which no one talks 90% of the time) is over to complete strangers from other servers.
The DE tool streamlines the process and has brought the market for enchanting mats down to a reasonable level for everyone who isn't an enchanter. Which sucks for enchanters, to be sure.
And yes, we read your posts. Your initial complaint with the tool was that you hated seeing upgrades for your offspec get sharded, which I've explained is probably your own fault 99% of the time.
I think the DE tool was implemented at the same time as the LFD tool. The LFD tool has changed instance running from a social experience to a production line. Even if the DE tool had never been implemented, I'm not sure you can safely assume that your friendly neighborhood enchanter is just going to hang around and hand out shards once the run (during which no one talks 90% of the time) is over to complete strangers from other servers.
The DE tool streamlines the process and has brought the market for enchanting mats down to a reasonable level for everyone who isn't an enchanter. Which sucks for enchanters, to be sure.
I have never stiffed a group on shards, ever. I don't know any enchanters who have, either. You could be right that people would behave differently when dealing with people from other servers, they certainly do in other regards.
But understand that as an enchanter, one of the reasons I run the randoms is for the fucking shards. So when I don't get any, consistently, it is quite fucking irksome. And I don't think that makes me greedy or a bad person.
It's uniformly random. You'll get just as many shards as everyone else in the long term. More, actually, as you're guaranteed to have an enchanter in every group.
I think the DE tool was implemented at the same time as the LFD tool. The LFD tool has changed instance running from a social experience to a production line. Even if the DE tool had never been implemented, I'm not sure you can safely assume that your friendly neighborhood enchanter is just going to hang around and hand out shards once the run (during which no one talks 90% of the time) is over to complete strangers from other servers.
The DE tool streamlines the process and has brought the market for enchanting mats down to a reasonable level for everyone who isn't an enchanter. Which sucks for enchanters, to be sure.
And yes, we read your posts. Your initial complaint with the tool was that you hated seeing upgrades for your offspec get sharded, which I've explained is probably your own fault 99% of the time.
I don't think you did read my post very well, or you would not have come to the conclusion that I was hating on fresh 80's simply for rolling on things, which was never what I said or implied.
The entire thread of the conversation was a complaint about the DE system and the randomness of shard distribution.
I realize you weren't bitching about fresh 80s getting shards. You were complaining because
1. Watching gear that would be an upgrade for your offspec get sharded, when you probably should just need roll in the first place
2. People are mindlessly DEing BoE blues, which is honestly their own prerogative
3. You perceive the greed roll to be on a different level than the disenchant roll, based on anecdotal evidence of random being less random than you think it should be
4. You're losing need rolls on things to other people also rolling need, even though they don't need it (which has nothing to do with the DE tool)
5. You're no longer "guaranteed" a shard because of the changes to the system, which irks you because one of the reasons you run heroics is for shards (which are 4.50 on your server, meaning you can buy 3 of them just from the gold reward from running a random)
The DE tool may suck for enchanters, but it's improved the game for just about everyone else.
I realize you weren't bitching about fresh 80s getting shards. You were complaining because
1. Watching gear that would be an upgrade for your offspec get sharded, when you probably should just need roll in the first place
2. People are mindlessly DEing BoE blues, which is honestly their own prerogative
3. You perceive the greed roll to be on a different level than the disenchant roll, based on anecdotal evidence of random being less random than you think it should be
4. You're losing need rolls on things to other people also rolling need, even though they don't need it (which has nothing to do with the DE tool)
5. You're no longer "guaranteed" a shard because of the changes to the system, which irks you because one of the reasons you run heroics is for shards (which are 4.50 on your server, meaning you can buy 3 of them just from the gold reward from running a random)
The DE tool may suck for enchanters, but it's improved the game for just about everyone else.
Great, where is the tool that randomly distributes ore and leather into my pack based on other people's tradeskills.
I'm thinking of dropping enchanting and mining since the consensus seems to be that those are not ideal skills for a DPS...but damn do I not want to go through leveling JC and BS.
You know what seems weird to me? People who start say, an ICC25 run, but say they require you to link achievements proving you've done it already. How the hell is anyone ever supposed to start doing it if you can't go without having already done it?
I'm running into this now because my guild isn't equipped to do anything anymore, so I've gotta run shit on my own.
Vincent Grayson on
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jackalFuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse.Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
I actually ran into a healer-tank team that was chain running and only letting the dps requeue with them if they passed on all the gear that they didn't need. It left a bad taste in my mouth.
You know what seems weird to me? People who start say, an ICC25 run, but say they require you to link achievements proving you've done it already. How the hell is anyone ever supposed to start doing it if you can't go without having already done it?
I'm running into this now because my guild isn't equipped to do anything anymore, so I've gotta run shit on my own.
My server is notorious for this - either 'Must have Achieve!' or 'Send GS with tell'. Please, take the 5 minutes before the boss fight and explain it. Get a Vent/TS channel and ask people to join if they don't know the fights. They don't have to talk! Just listen.
You know what seems weird to me? People who start say, an ICC25 run, but say they require you to link achievements proving you've done it already. How the hell is anyone ever supposed to start doing it if you can't go without having already done it?
I always assumed they were only looking for the first wing proof. Of course, that's still a chicken and egg problem...
I actually ran into a healer-tank team that was chain running and only letting the dps requeue with them if they passed on all the gear that they didn't need. It left a bad taste in my mouth.
o_O If you're not going to be rolling on any gear, you're probably only there for the daily anyway... But on the other hand, I'd have a hard time getting worked up over this.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
1) On the shard thing. You're not getting any less shards. Basically, people would just greed the stuff you'd win to DE, and then sell them. All you're doing now is replacing that item with a shard. You're not getting less shards because of the DE option.
2) On PUGS linking GS and Achieves. Most people leading PUGs aren't doing it to teach random people how to raid. They're doing it because they may have missed their regular raid night, and are trying to make it up. Hence, they'd rather take some time to get geared people who know the fights, who may just have happened to miss their raid night to go along.
Otherwise, the only way people have to judge if you're good enough of a player to handle an ICC raid is achieves and GS. If somone in the raid doesn't know you personally, or can vouch for you, you're going to have a hard time getting into completely random raid groups with a subpar GS or achievement score.
On the other hand, if you don't like those policies, you can be the nice guy who starts their own ICC25 group and takes anyone and everyone who responds.
ironzerg on
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jackalFuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse.Registered Userregular
You know what seems weird to me? People who start say, an ICC25 run, but say they require you to link achievements proving you've done it already. How the hell is anyone ever supposed to start doing it if you can't go without having already done it?
I always assumed they were only looking for the first wing proof. Of course, that's still a chicken and egg problem...
I actually ran into a healer-tank team that was chain running and only letting the dps requeue with them if they passed on all the gear that they didn't need. It left a bad taste in my mouth.
o_O If you're not going to be rolling on any gear, you're probably only there for the daily anyway... But on the other hand, I'd have a hard time getting worked up over this.
It happened while I was leveling my DK through Northrend.
1) On the shard thing. You're not getting any less shards. Basically, people would just greed the stuff you'd win to DE, and then sell them. All you're doing now is replacing that item with a shard. You're not getting less shards because of the DE option.
Yes, yes I am.
It used to work like this;
Barring people need rolling, at the end of the dungeon I would de everything. Everyone who didn't need an item would roll for the abyss crystal (if any). After that dream shards were handed out to everyone else from the 2nd highest roll down. Often, this meant every person got either an item or a shard.
I have run many, many randoms now where I haven't won a single shard.
-edit-
And yeah, the gambler types probably would have hated that system, but for socialist obama-loving liberals like me, it was great and left people feeling like things were very even.
One thing I will suggest is matching up the class colours - I was looking at it going "Huh Warlocks don't die much." Your blurb then mentioned Paladins, after which I found out the paladin graph was purple.
I have run many, many randoms now where I haven't won a single shard.
And there'll also be many where you win every shard. This is pretty basic probability.
This isn't how probability works.
Everyone has an equal chance, per item, to win a shard. Therefore, in the long run, everyone will have received the same number of shards. Sometimes you won't win a single shard in a run. Sometimes you'll win every single one. On average, you'll win just as many as everyone else.
You know what, just fucking skip it. I know everyone is sick of listening to me bitch about this, but I am not ever going to agree that this system is better, so lets drop it.
I have run many, many randoms now where I haven't won a single shard.
And there'll also be many where you win every shard. This is pretty basic probability.
This isn't how probability works.
Yes it is. Streaks are a common occurence in random systems. It is actually a really good way to tell the difference between actual random data and faked random data. Actual random data tends to have runs of streaks.
Yes, that's what I'm angry at. Couldn't be the silly goose de system that I've been complaining about all along. But hey, lets just keep the argument going.
One thing I will suggest is matching up the class colours - I was looking at it going "Huh Warlocks don't die much." Your blurb then mentioned Paladins, after which I found out the paladin graph was purple.
Just a minor thing.
Yeah, the data mining program I have is not too hot with giving options for the visualization. I was not too pleased with the output either; but I couldn't find any other programs that could do the viz I needed.
I'm thinking of dropping enchanting and mining since the consensus seems to be that those are not ideal skills for a DPS...but damn do I not want to go through leveling JC and BS.
FYI, BS/JC are not any better for a DPSer than Enchanting, really. SP/AP enchants to rings are fine. Mining is definitely not optimal for a DPS, but really, the DPS increase you'd see from switching would only matter to the most hardcore of guilds. You're talking about maybe 50 or 100 potential DPS from switching that mining to something else. If you're set on switching, level JC but keep enchanting with it. They go well together anyway.
1) On the shard thing. You're not getting any less shards. Basically, people would just greed the stuff you'd win to DE, and then sell them. All you're doing now is replacing that item with a shard. You're not getting less shards because of the DE option.
Yes, yes I am.
It used to work like this;
Barring people need rolling, at the end of the dungeon I would de everything. Everyone who didn't need an item would roll for the abyss crystal (if any). After that dream shards were handed out to everyone else from the 2nd highest roll down. Often, this meant every person got either an item or a shard.
I have run many, many randoms now where I haven't won a single shard.
-edit-
And yeah, the gambler types probably would have hated that system, but for socialist obama-loving liberals like me, it was great and left people feeling like things were very even.
You can't trade with people from other servers. So you can't do the old hand out shards thing using the LFD tool.
-SPI- on
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
I think they fixed that a while ago. Now you just can't trade gold cross server, IIRC.
What I wish they could do is have an option to shut off my de in a group because it's beyond annoying for people to de boe's because it's a shard when i am other people have said it's worth more in the ah or to an alt
I know about the cannot trade shards but what I found odd is I was on my warrior I got two of the dps rings in Normal pit I que for a heroic and get the druid I was grouped with he asked if I could trade the rings to him. I tired and it would not let me even though he was in the last group
One thing I will suggest is matching up the class colours - I was looking at it going "Huh Warlocks don't die much." Your blurb then mentioned Paladins, after which I found out the paladin graph was purple.
Just a minor thing.
Yeah, the data mining program I have is not too hot with giving options for the visualization. I was not too pleased with the output either; but I couldn't find any other programs that could do the viz I needed.
Could you have the datamining program just output the data as text and import it into something like Origin?
Could you have the datamining program just output the data as text and import it into something like Origin?
Hmm, maybe, but the other constraints I have is the software has to be free (as in beer) and run on a Mac
I've already submitted the final version of the paper now, but I agree it could have/should have, been better. However, not a single reviewer called me on it, which is a win in my book
I'm thinking of dropping enchanting and mining since the consensus seems to be that those are not ideal skills for a DPS...but damn do I not want to go through leveling JC and BS.
FYI, BS/JC are not any better for a DPSer than Enchanting, really. SP/AP enchants to rings are fine. Mining is definitely not optimal for a DPS, but really, the DPS increase you'd see from switching would only matter to the most hardcore of guilds. You're talking about maybe 50 or 100 potential DPS from switching that mining to something else. If you're set on switching, level JC but keep enchanting with it. They go well together anyway.
Yeah? I was reading through the EJ forums and they seemed pretty adamant about BS/JC and/or Eng being the absolute best and other things being a waste.
Yes, that's what I'm angry at. Couldn't be the silly goose de system that I've been complaining about all along. But hey, lets just keep the argument going.
Posts
Why is this the healers fault? Ok, if the tank pulled only one group the pally could probably heal the 48k between two Shadow Blasts, but even then an interrupt or spell reflect (or just focusing the mob so it doesn't cast twice) seems like the better choice to me.
I'm not blaming them for having good luck, I am lamenting the system which makes shard distribution luck dependent, when it used to be much more even.
Do you people actually read a post before you dogpile someone?
The DE tool streamlines the process and has brought the market for enchanting mats down to a reasonable level for everyone who isn't an enchanter. Which sucks for enchanters, to be sure.
And yes, we read your posts. Your initial complaint with the tool was that you hated seeing upgrades for your offspec get sharded, which I've explained is probably your own fault 99% of the time.
I have never stiffed a group on shards, ever. I don't know any enchanters who have, either. You could be right that people would behave differently when dealing with people from other servers, they certainly do in other regards.
But understand that as an enchanter, one of the reasons I run the randoms is for the fucking shards. So when I don't get any, consistently, it is quite fucking irksome. And I don't think that makes me greedy or a bad person.
I don't think you did read my post very well, or you would not have come to the conclusion that I was hating on fresh 80's simply for rolling on things, which was never what I said or implied.
The entire thread of the conversation was a complaint about the DE system and the randomness of shard distribution.
You would have to be illiterate to miss that.
Its need or greed. You either need it or you don't. There is nothing more to it than at. Period.
I need on what I want and I greed on everything else.
1. Watching gear that would be an upgrade for your offspec get sharded, when you probably should just need roll in the first place
2. People are mindlessly DEing BoE blues, which is honestly their own prerogative
3. You perceive the greed roll to be on a different level than the disenchant roll, based on anecdotal evidence of random being less random than you think it should be
4. You're losing need rolls on things to other people also rolling need, even though they don't need it (which has nothing to do with the DE tool)
5. You're no longer "guaranteed" a shard because of the changes to the system, which irks you because one of the reasons you run heroics is for shards (which are 4.50 on your server, meaning you can buy 3 of them just from the gold reward from running a random)
The DE tool may suck for enchanters, but it's improved the game for just about everyone else.
Great, where is the tool that randomly distributes ore and leather into my pack based on other people's tradeskills.
Please tell me how much my Armory data mining sucks!
http://eis-blog.ucsc.edu/2010/04/mining-the-world-of-warcraft-armory/
Get in before all the other trolls
I'm running into this now because my guild isn't equipped to do anything anymore, so I've gotta run shit on my own.
My server is notorious for this - either 'Must have Achieve!' or 'Send GS with tell'. Please, take the 5 minutes before the boss fight and explain it. Get a Vent/TS channel and ask people to join if they don't know the fights. They don't have to talk! Just listen.
STEAM | XBL | PSN
I always assumed they were only looking for the first wing proof. Of course, that's still a chicken and egg problem...
o_O If you're not going to be rolling on any gear, you're probably only there for the daily anyway... But on the other hand, I'd have a hard time getting worked up over this.
2) On PUGS linking GS and Achieves. Most people leading PUGs aren't doing it to teach random people how to raid. They're doing it because they may have missed their regular raid night, and are trying to make it up. Hence, they'd rather take some time to get geared people who know the fights, who may just have happened to miss their raid night to go along.
Otherwise, the only way people have to judge if you're good enough of a player to handle an ICC raid is achieves and GS. If somone in the raid doesn't know you personally, or can vouch for you, you're going to have a hard time getting into completely random raid groups with a subpar GS or achievement score.
On the other hand, if you don't like those policies, you can be the nice guy who starts their own ICC25 group and takes anyone and everyone who responds.
It happened while I was leveling my DK through Northrend.
Yes, yes I am.
It used to work like this;
Barring people need rolling, at the end of the dungeon I would de everything. Everyone who didn't need an item would roll for the abyss crystal (if any). After that dream shards were handed out to everyone else from the 2nd highest roll down. Often, this meant every person got either an item or a shard.
I have run many, many randoms now where I haven't won a single shard.
-edit-
And yeah, the gambler types probably would have hated that system, but for socialist obama-loving liberals like me, it was great and left people feeling like things were very even.
That's pretty neat.
One thing I will suggest is matching up the class colours - I was looking at it going "Huh Warlocks don't die much." Your blurb then mentioned Paladins, after which I found out the paladin graph was purple.
Just a minor thing.
This isn't how probability works.
You know what, just fucking skip it. I know everyone is sick of listening to me bitch about this, but I am not ever going to agree that this system is better, so lets drop it.
Yes it is. Streaks are a common occurence in random systems. It is actually a really good way to tell the difference between actual random data and faked random data. Actual random data tends to have runs of streaks.
Yes, that's what I'm angry at. Couldn't be the silly goose de system that I've been complaining about all along. But hey, lets just keep the argument going.
Yeah, the data mining program I have is not too hot with giving options for the visualization. I was not too pleased with the output either; but I couldn't find any other programs that could do the viz I needed.
FYI, BS/JC are not any better for a DPSer than Enchanting, really. SP/AP enchants to rings are fine. Mining is definitely not optimal for a DPS, but really, the DPS increase you'd see from switching would only matter to the most hardcore of guilds. You're talking about maybe 50 or 100 potential DPS from switching that mining to something else. If you're set on switching, level JC but keep enchanting with it. They go well together anyway.
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I know about the cannot trade shards but what I found odd is I was on my warrior I got two of the dps rings in Normal pit I que for a heroic and get the druid I was grouped with he asked if I could trade the rings to him. I tired and it would not let me even though he was in the last group
The shammy in one of my parties today was unable to trade water to the pally healer, so I don't think this has changed.
They should really make non-stat food and drinks tradeable, and not just the conjured stuff.
Could you have the datamining program just output the data as text and import it into something like Origin?
Hmm, maybe, but the other constraints I have is the software has to be free (as in beer) and run on a Mac
I've already submitted the final version of the paper now, but I agree it could have/should have, been better. However, not a single reviewer called me on it, which is a win in my book
And, yeah, I doubt that reviewers would mind that the colours don't match
It's good stuff, I was mostly just nitpicking.
Yeah? I was reading through the EJ forums and they seemed pretty adamant about BS/JC and/or Eng being the absolute best and other things being a waste.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Do you need that 3g dream shard that bad?
Go into the chat filters options and uncheck battleground chat for that tab.