It’s the story of a hopeful, young karate enthusiast whose dreams and moxie take him all the way to the All Valley Karate Championship. Of course, sadly he loses in the final round to that nerd kid. But, he learns an important lesson about gracefully accepting defeat.
Fuck no I had no pity for the nazis in IB. Dudes terrorized and tortured and murdered millions. I love that they got to feel a bit of what they impinged on others.
If Dr. Hannibal Lecter counts as a villain, he has my vote.
Also, does anyone remember that old live-action Mortal Kombat series that was abruptly canceled? The writers must have been very angsty, because they decided to make Shao Kahn drop the kill-hammer on all the heroes. It think it was one of the rare moments where a black-and-white villain won over his counter-parts.
I remember that show. Not only did Shao Kahn kill all the heroes, he also killed all the quasi-villains (Shang Tsung, Quan Chi etc), kicked the shit out of Raiden, and bragged about everyone he'd killed to his face.
Pretty badass.
I came in here to mention this. There was supposed to be a follow up to fix it but that never came so youre just left with the heroes being murdered in ncold blood and evil winning. Totally fucked with me as a kid.
If Dr. Hannibal Lecter counts as a villain, he has my vote.
Also, does anyone remember that old live-action Mortal Kombat series that was abruptly canceled? The writers must have been very angsty, because they decided to make Shao Kahn drop the kill-hammer on all the heroes. It think it was one of the rare moments where a black-and-white villain won over his counter-parts.
I remember that show. Not only did Shao Kahn kill all the heroes, he also killed all the quasi-villains (Shang Tsung, Quan Chi etc), kicked the shit out of Raiden, and bragged about everyone he'd killed to his face.
Pretty badass.
Thank you both. I looked up Mortal Kombat: Conquest on youtube and watched that last episode. It was awesome.
You always gotta root for those serial killer films, where the bad buy is killing all those dirty sluts and morons.
He's doing our genepool a service of ridding it of horny and stupid teenagers. If they didn't want to be brutally killed then they shouldn't have sex before marriage in romantic cabin settings.
You always gotta root for those serial killer films, where the bad buy is killing all those dirty sluts and morons.
He's doing our genepool a service of ridding it of horny and stupid teenagers. If they didn't want to be brutally killed then they shouldn't have sex before marriage in romantic cabin settings.
How much those movies stereotypes enrage me is one of those things that tends to just hit me from time to time.
You always gotta root for those serial killer films, where the bad buy is killing all those dirty sluts and morons.
He's doing our genepool a service of ridding it of horny and stupid teenagers. If they didn't want to be brutally killed then they shouldn't have sex before marriage in romantic cabin settings.
How much those movies stereotypes enrage me is one of those things that tends to just hit me from time to time.
Actually I kinda dislike them because they are so stupid. I would have a hard time sitting down and enjoying a Freddy Kruger movie without actively making fun of the plot because it's the characters of the victims that send me through a wall.
"Are you seriously going to wander in the woods and night alone while you're friends are missing and not expect to be taken yourself?"
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say I wanted them to win, but I thought Syndrome from The Incredibles and Charles Muntz from Up were really effective as villains you could sympathize with up to a point- just a little change at some point, and they'd have turned into a hero rather than a villain.
Also, I know the Knights Templar were the real villains of the movie, but in Kingdom of Heaven, Saladin came across as really likable for a dude at the head of a giant army sieging a city for religious reasons.
Perhaps I'm easily manipulated, or my memory has gone, but I don't really recall ever having this.
Of course, the bad guys are usually one dimensional caricatures, so...
But how were the mercenaries at all likeable in Avatar? No one was likeable.
The evil general guy was actually my favorite character in that movie, he was a simple cut-out but the actor really sold the part. Also things like when they steal the chopper and he just opens up the door holds his breath and empties an entire clip into the chopper, or when his arm is on fire and he lets it burn until he has a free moment.
I don't understand why people dislike Avatar. It is a movie about elves who ride flying dinosaurs into battle against mecha-riding Republicans. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. What rational red-blooded American doesn't want to see an elf stab through the windshield of Buff Donald Rumsfeld's mecha?
Quaritch was bad-ass though, but not as badass as someone who rides a giant-ass dragon.
Nope sorry. Those exosuits with the direct limb interface controls are way more dope than a whole pile of dragons. I hated to see them run over by some dumb ol rhinos.
Also LOTR has a special place in this thread, I feel, because the longer you look at it the more horrible the protagonists appear to be. You just know the elves would love to ethnic cleanse the shit out of the orcs and those only brown people in middle earth.
There was two seconds of that movie where Hades had it all; Zeus was being frozen/burned alive, the gods were enslaved and on the way towards imprisonment, the Titans were at his command. He even whipped up a sweet looking throne and a martini glass from nothing for christ sakes!
That was the best part of that movie, just for that one shot.
The main character in Drumline, he was such a showboating prick that I hated his guts. Would have preferred to see them lose and for it to be all his fault.
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say I wanted them to win, but I thought Syndrome from The Incredibles and Charles Muntz from Up were really effective as villains you could sympathize with up to a point- just a little change at some point, and they'd have turned into a hero rather than a villain.
Syndrome is a great villain, he really makes the movie, in a way. To me (I have yet to see up, or cars i guess) he actually stands out as the only real pixar villian, because both finding nemo and wall-e sort of have a different sort of conflict overshadowing the plot, and not so much a dude.
I dont know if I was rooting for him, But Aku in samurai jack was such a simple villain that I loved him. I watched that show because of how classic he was as a mythological root of all evil.
I don't understand why people dislike Avatar. It is a movie about elves who ride flying dinosaurs into battle against mecha-riding Republicans. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. What rational red-blooded American doesn't want to see an elf stab through the windshield of Buff Donald Rumsfeld's mecha?
Quaritch was bad-ass though, but not as badass as someone who rides a giant-ass dragon.
Nope sorry. Those exosuits with the direct limb interface controls are way more dope than a whole pile of dragons. I hated to see them run over by some dumb ol rhinos.
Also LOTR has a special place in this thread, I feel, because the longer you look at it the more horrible the protagonists appear to be. You just know the elves would love to ethnic cleanse the shit out of the orcs and those only brown people in middle earth.
Lord of the Rings is full of civilizations based on eugenics and ethnic cleansing.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
I don't understand why people dislike Avatar. It is a movie about elves who ride flying dinosaurs into battle against mecha-riding Republicans. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. What rational red-blooded American doesn't want to see an elf stab through the windshield of Buff Donald Rumsfeld's mecha?
Quaritch was bad-ass though, but not as badass as someone who rides a giant-ass dragon.
Nope sorry. Those exosuits with the direct limb interface controls are way more dope than a whole pile of dragons. I hated to see them run over by some dumb ol rhinos.
Also LOTR has a special place in this thread, I feel, because the longer you look at it the more horrible the protagonists appear to be. You just know the elves would love to ethnic cleanse the shit out of the orcs and those only brown people in middle earth.
Lord of the Rings is full of civilizations based on eugenics and ethnic cleansing.
yeah, you might think the elves wanted to cleanse (when they weren't busy running off to a new continent, sure), but Saruman/Sauron? They actually tried. Like, sent armies to wipe out nations. I'd say they're a bit more evil than the elves.
I don't understand why people dislike Avatar. It is a movie about elves who ride flying dinosaurs into battle against mecha-riding Republicans. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. What rational red-blooded American doesn't want to see an elf stab through the windshield of Buff Donald Rumsfeld's mecha?
Quaritch was bad-ass though, but not as badass as someone who rides a giant-ass dragon.
Nope sorry. Those exosuits with the direct limb interface controls are way more dope than a whole pile of dragons. I hated to see them run over by some dumb ol rhinos.
Also LOTR has a special place in this thread, I feel, because the longer you look at it the more horrible the protagonists appear to be. You just know the elves would love to ethnic cleanse the shit out of the orcs and those only brown people in middle earth.
Lord of the Rings is full of civilizations based on eugenics and ethnic cleansing.
yeah, you might think the elves wanted to cleanse (when they weren't busy running off to a new continent, sure), but Saruman/Sauron? They actually tried. Like, sent armies to wipe out nations. I'd say they're a bit more evil than the elves.
I guess it doesn't seem as bad because Sauron is like a big jackass. That's his whole thing, he kills you or does bad things to you or whatever. The elves and the kingdoms of Rohan and those places seemed more subtle in a keeping the lesser races down and slaying the dirty savages kind of way. I mean unless those elephant-riding black guys just wanted to kill whitey without any previous history.
I don't remember if I rooted for Dr. Horrible or not.
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Muse Among MenSuburban Bunny Princess?Its time for a new shtick Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
I rooted for Dr. Horrible, he was endearing.
As far as Tom and Jerry and the like, I usually rooted for the 'villain' because they had a reasonable motivation. I never thought they were evil. At 6 I was thinking, "I'm sorry Jerry but Tom has a job to do and you are a mouse, mice get eaten, you must accept that."
I can't say I root for either side (good or bad) less or more than the other though, though I sure as hell can't bring myself to be 'evil' in videogames. I feel guilty, I really do. I think we find villains interesting because traditional heroes can very easily wallow in a pit of cliche and stagnation (considering the villains are written with a shred of complexity). Heroes can become just as interesting if doing the right thing were more often portrayed as an emotionally difficult option.
Light Yagami was a monster, L was the hero of that show.
My only reference is the movies, but in that he wouldn't have killed nearly as many innocents had L and his lady assistant not essentially cornered him.
Before that he was really only interested in killing obviously guilty criminals. He likely did way more good than harm.
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Muse Among MenSuburban Bunny Princess?Its time for a new shtick Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
I haven't seen the film, but I have seen the anime. Light loses himself in the power. It becomes about him, not the greater good.
I haven't seen the film, but I have seen the anime. Light loses himself in the power. It becomes about him, not the greater good.
I'm not arguing that he doesn't "lose the plot" a bit, but basically all of his actions in the latter half of the first movie and all of the second movie are to try to get himself out of trouble, allow himself to continue doing what he was doing before.
Obviously he kills a lot of people to get there, but I don't think he quite becomes a monster in the way you describe---he's just cornered and trying to find a way to survive.
It doesn't help that I didn't find L to be likable at all.
Light Yagami was a monster, L was the hero of that show.
My only reference is the movies, but in that he wouldn't have killed nearly as many innocents had L and his lady assistant not essentially cornered him.
Before that he was really only interested in killing obviously guilty criminals. He likely did way more good than harm.
Then you really need to read the manga. He states that he would eventually punish minor criminals, like litterers and jaywakers. There's a reason Light calls himself the god of the new world, and it's not a pleasant one.
I haven't seen the film, but I have seen the anime. Light loses himself in the power. It becomes about him, not the greater good.
Having seen both the anime and movies (well, the first one at least), I can say the movies help portray his motives in a much more sympathetic light. In the movie, Light actually sees his ideals shattered in front of him. In the anime and manga, he's just arrogant. He becomes just as much of a dick in the movie, but his initial motives are made more sympathizable.
Also LOTR has a special place in this thread, I feel, because the longer you look at it the more horrible the protagonists appear to be. You just know the elves would love to ethnic cleanse the shit out of the orcs and those only brown people in middle earth.
You do realize that Orcs and Elves are the same race.
I haven't seen the film, but I have seen the anime. Light loses himself in the power. It becomes about him, not the greater good.
Having seen both the anime and movies (well, the first one at least), I can say the movies help portray his motives in a much more sympathetic light. In the movie, Light actually sees his ideals shattered in front of him. In the anime and manga, he's just arrogant. He becomes just as much of a dick in the movie, but his initial motives are made more sympathizable.
The thing is that if you think about it, there's really no way you can see Light's actions as sympathetic, if you believe in Western ideals. Evem looking at Light through the lens of Japanese culture, he still comes off as a monster.
I heard a really good case being made for Training Day being a movie that demonstrates just how far we're willing to root for an actor we know and love in a monstrous role.
I haven't seen the film, but I have seen the anime. Light loses himself in the power. It becomes about him, not the greater good.
Having seen both the anime and movies (well, the first one at least), I can say the movies help portray his motives in a much more sympathetic light. In the movie, Light actually sees his ideals shattered in front of him. In the anime and manga, he's just arrogant. He becomes just as much of a dick in the movie, but his initial motives are made more sympathizable.
The thing is that if you think about it, there's really no way you can see Light's actions as sympathetic, if you believe in Western ideals. Evem looking at Light through the lens of Japanese culture, he still comes off as a monster.
Well, the desire to strike back at evil that the law refuses to (or simply cannot) punish is a pretty big motive for a pretty big number of heroes in films.
It may not be consistent with Western ideals about fairness, equality, and justice but it's something that he shares with many character explicitly recognized as heroes despite their vigilantism.
Also LOTR has a special place in this thread, I feel, because the longer you look at it the more horrible the protagonists appear to be. You just know the elves would love to ethnic cleanse the shit out of the orcs and those only brown people in middle earth.
You do realize that Orcs and Elves are the same race.
Orcs are basically evil elves.
Why are they evil though? Why is it that they all decided to be complete assholes without fail? Is it because they are ugly?
Also LOTR has a special place in this thread, I feel, because the longer you look at it the more horrible the protagonists appear to be. You just know the elves would love to ethnic cleanse the shit out of the orcs and those only brown people in middle earth.
You do realize that Orcs and Elves are the same race.
Orcs are basically evil elves.
Why are they evil though? Why is it that they all decided to be complete assholes without fail? Is it because they are ugly?
Because the Middle Earth version of Satan tortured and corrupted them.
I haven't seen the film, but I have seen the anime. Light loses himself in the power. It becomes about him, not the greater good.
Having seen both the anime and movies (well, the first one at least), I can say the movies help portray his motives in a much more sympathetic light. In the movie, Light actually sees his ideals shattered in front of him. In the anime and manga, he's just arrogant. He becomes just as much of a dick in the movie, but his initial motives are made more sympathizable.
The thing is that if you think about it, there's really no way you can see Light's actions as sympathetic, if you believe in Western ideals. Evem looking at Light through the lens of Japanese culture, he still comes off as a monster.
I'm not really talking about his actions, I'm talking more about his transformation. I'm sure nobody would be all sunshine and roses if it turned out that everything they believed was a lie.
But I see what you're saying here. Light definitely fits the definition of "crazy psycho".
I root for Paris Hilton in a way. Everyone likes to dispise her as some bimbo skank, but the truth is she invented this whole 'famous for being famous' thing that dozens of people have copied, and she is smart enough to make more as a bimbo skank than most of us will make in our lifetimes.
I haven't seen the film, but I have seen the anime. Light loses himself in the power. It becomes about him, not the greater good.
Having seen both the anime and movies (well, the first one at least), I can say the movies help portray his motives in a much more sympathetic light. In the movie, Light actually sees his ideals shattered in front of him. In the anime and manga, he's just arrogant. He becomes just as much of a dick in the movie, but his initial motives are made more sympathizable.
The thing is that if you think about it, there's really no way you can see Light's actions as sympathetic, if you believe in Western ideals. Evem looking at Light through the lens of Japanese culture, he still comes off as a monster.
I'm not really talking about his actions, I'm talking more about his transformation. I'm sure nobody would be all sunshine and roses if it turned out that everything they believed was a lie.
But I see what you're saying here. Light definitely fits the definition of "crazy psycho".
Well, in the manga/anime, he more or less snaps when he realizes the Death Note is real.
I root for Paris Hilton in a way. Everyone likes to dispise her as some bimbo skank, but the truth is she invented this whole 'famous for being famous' thing that dozens of people have copied, and she is smart enough to make more as a bimbo skank than most of us will make in our lifetimes.
Well, her takedown of McCain in 2008 showed people that she's not as clueless as people think. She is of Conrad's stock, after all.
I root for Paris Hilton in a way. Everyone likes to dispise her as some bimbo skank, but the truth is she invented this whole 'famous for being famous' thing that dozens of people have copied, and she is smart enough to make more as a bimbo skank than most of us will make in our lifetimes.
Well, her takedown of McCain in 2008 showed people that she's not as clueless as people think. She is of Conrad's stock, after all.
Buh? Is there a video-link please?
That said, Paris is dumb like a Fox. I don't think she is very book-smart, and her street-smarts may not be so hot either, but she is cunning.
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I came in here to mention this. There was supposed to be a follow up to fix it but that never came so youre just left with the heroes being murdered in ncold blood and evil winning. Totally fucked with me as a kid.
Thank you both. I looked up Mortal Kombat: Conquest on youtube and watched that last episode. It was awesome.
Roy Batty did murder some people. But in a way, you kinda sympathize for him and in the end, he redeems himself.
I liked that.
He's doing our genepool a service of ridding it of horny and stupid teenagers. If they didn't want to be brutally killed then they shouldn't have sex before marriage in romantic cabin settings.
How much those movies stereotypes enrage me is one of those things that tends to just hit me from time to time.
Actually I kinda dislike them because they are so stupid. I would have a hard time sitting down and enjoying a Freddy Kruger movie without actively making fun of the plot because it's the characters of the victims that send me through a wall.
"Are you seriously going to wander in the woods and night alone while you're friends are missing and not expect to be taken yourself?"
Light Yagami was a monster, L was the hero of that show.
Also, I know the Knights Templar were the real villains of the movie, but in Kingdom of Heaven, Saladin came across as really likable for a dude at the head of a giant army sieging a city for religious reasons.
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The evil general guy was actually my favorite character in that movie, he was a simple cut-out but the actor really sold the part. Also things like when they steal the chopper and he just opens up the door holds his breath and empties an entire clip into the chopper, or when his arm is on fire and he lets it burn until he has a free moment.
Not "likeable" per se but I liked the character.
Nope sorry. Those exosuits with the direct limb interface controls are way more dope than a whole pile of dragons. I hated to see them run over by some dumb ol rhinos.
Also LOTR has a special place in this thread, I feel, because the longer you look at it the more horrible the protagonists appear to be. You just know the elves would love to ethnic cleanse the shit out of the orcs and those only brown people in middle earth.
There was two seconds of that movie where Hades had it all; Zeus was being frozen/burned alive, the gods were enslaved and on the way towards imprisonment, the Titans were at his command. He even whipped up a sweet looking throne and a martini glass from nothing for christ sakes!
That was the best part of that movie, just for that one shot.
fake edit: And this too. Fuck that "hero".
Syndrome is a great villain, he really makes the movie, in a way. To me (I have yet to see up, or cars i guess) he actually stands out as the only real pixar villian, because both finding nemo and wall-e sort of have a different sort of conflict overshadowing the plot, and not so much a dude.
I dont know if I was rooting for him, But Aku in samurai jack was such a simple villain that I loved him. I watched that show because of how classic he was as a mythological root of all evil.
yeah that one!
it was terrible
Lord of the Rings is full of civilizations based on eugenics and ethnic cleansing.
yeah, you might think the elves wanted to cleanse (when they weren't busy running off to a new continent, sure), but Saruman/Sauron? They actually tried. Like, sent armies to wipe out nations. I'd say they're a bit more evil than the elves.
I guess it doesn't seem as bad because Sauron is like a big jackass. That's his whole thing, he kills you or does bad things to you or whatever. The elves and the kingdoms of Rohan and those places seemed more subtle in a keeping the lesser races down and slaying the dirty savages kind of way. I mean unless those elephant-riding black guys just wanted to kill whitey without any previous history.
As far as Tom and Jerry and the like, I usually rooted for the 'villain' because they had a reasonable motivation. I never thought they were evil. At 6 I was thinking, "I'm sorry Jerry but Tom has a job to do and you are a mouse, mice get eaten, you must accept that."
I can't say I root for either side (good or bad) less or more than the other though, though I sure as hell can't bring myself to be 'evil' in videogames. I feel guilty, I really do. I think we find villains interesting because traditional heroes can very easily wallow in a pit of cliche and stagnation (considering the villains are written with a shred of complexity). Heroes can become just as interesting if doing the right thing were more often portrayed as an emotionally difficult option.
My only reference is the movies, but in that he wouldn't have killed nearly as many innocents had L and his lady assistant not essentially cornered him.
Before that he was really only interested in killing obviously guilty criminals. He likely did way more good than harm.
I'm not arguing that he doesn't "lose the plot" a bit, but basically all of his actions in the latter half of the first movie and all of the second movie are to try to get himself out of trouble, allow himself to continue doing what he was doing before.
Obviously he kills a lot of people to get there, but I don't think he quite becomes a monster in the way you describe---he's just cornered and trying to find a way to survive.
It doesn't help that I didn't find L to be likable at all.
Then you really need to read the manga. He states that he would eventually punish minor criminals, like litterers and jaywakers. There's a reason Light calls himself the god of the new world, and it's not a pleasant one.
My last favorite villain was Azula from Avatar, though I think she wasn't particularly deep, just really bad-ass.
Having seen both the anime and movies (well, the first one at least), I can say the movies help portray his motives in a much more sympathetic light. In the movie, Light actually sees his ideals shattered in front of him. In the anime and manga, he's just arrogant. He becomes just as much of a dick in the movie, but his initial motives are made more sympathizable.
Steam: pazython
You do realize that Orcs and Elves are the same race.
Orcs are basically evil elves.
You do know the conflict between the X-Men and Magneto was an allegory about the two sides of the civil rights movement, right?
The thing is that if you think about it, there's really no way you can see Light's actions as sympathetic, if you believe in Western ideals. Evem looking at Light through the lens of Japanese culture, he still comes off as a monster.
Well, the desire to strike back at evil that the law refuses to (or simply cannot) punish is a pretty big motive for a pretty big number of heroes in films.
It may not be consistent with Western ideals about fairness, equality, and justice but it's something that he shares with many character explicitly recognized as heroes despite their vigilantism.
Why are they evil though? Why is it that they all decided to be complete assholes without fail? Is it because they are ugly?
Because the Middle Earth version of Satan tortured and corrupted them.
I'm not really talking about his actions, I'm talking more about his transformation. I'm sure nobody would be all sunshine and roses if it turned out that everything they believed was a lie.
But I see what you're saying here. Light definitely fits the definition of "crazy psycho".
Steam: pazython
Well, in the manga/anime, he more or less snaps when he realizes the Death Note is real.
Well, her takedown of McCain in 2008 showed people that she's not as clueless as people think. She is of Conrad's stock, after all.
Buh? Is there a video-link please?
That said, Paris is dumb like a Fox. I don't think she is very book-smart, and her street-smarts may not be so hot either, but she is cunning.