Not to take this too far off topic, but one of the things I realized is bizarre after living in the Bay Area for a year is the fact that I have to drive to get to pretty much any bar around here.
Whereas in the Bay Area I could walk or take transit to a huge number of watering holes.
I don't know the stats, but I'm imagining deaths from drunk driving are way way higher per capita here for just that reason.
Also not to take this too far off topic, but in hindsight being kicked out of my brother's apartment (and thusly the Bay Area) was for the better because the Bay Area has been turning into a major shit hole from what I hear from those that remain.
Henroid on
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
i'm not so sure that 25,000 barrels a day number is accurate...
why
i think we'd all like a little reasonable doubt at this point
Definitely. If anyone has anything to dispute the numbers I've been seeing, I'd like to see it.
The fact is, none of the numbers we are seeing are accurate. They are estimates. Educated guesses. I'd actually put my money on the reality being worse than what we are being told right now.
In terms of economic/ecological damage this is practically guaranteed to be worse than Chernobyl, but people are usually rather particular about human fatalities. Unless this has a health impact on fisheries (totally possible) it probably won't kill anyone. So you probably won't see anyone in a public position comparing the two disasters for fear of blowback ("this dangerously irrational eco-terrorist thinks seagulls are more important than people! Here's a picture of a Pripyat firefighter with his face melted off!")
nescientist on
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Muse Among MenSuburban Bunny Princess?Its time for a new shtick Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
Years form now, I will be a wizened old Nana, and the tots will ask me what it was like to come of age during such a crummy decade . . .
I guess that will be sort of interesting
Muse Among Men on
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
Many people in my area still get their household water from wells. With our very permeable, sandy aquifer I wouldn't be surprised to see some very serious health impacts from this.
The biggest seafood hatcheries for the US are in the gulf waters... the shrimp population especially will be damaged beyond repair. And if this fucker catches the gulf stream and makes its way up the east coast somehow, then the ecosystem is basically destroyed for decades, possibly longer. This impacts everything, and as such, i'm honestly not surprised at all this happened, especially after having 2 oil tycoons in office running (ruining) everything precious to us.
half the country will scream this that happened because the government's taxes on BP were too high to make a better failsafe feasible
most of the other half will scream that this was obama's katrina, a product of slow government response
BP will make half-hearted apologies and then use backdoor leverage to largely eliminate any financial responsibility for the accident, and continue on as usual
half the country will scream this that happened because the government's taxes on BP were too high to make a better failsafe feasible
most of the other half will scream that this was obama's katrina, a product of slow government response
BP will make half-hearted apologies and then use backdoor leverage to largely eliminate any financial responsibility for the accident, and continue on as usual
You described the same half twice. But you're probably largely right in terms of results.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
When Brazil forces better failsafes than we do, that should say it all.
And as for every person who sits there and calls this Obama's Katrina, I wish people would stand up and remind them that Katrina was a fucking hurricane... a NATURAL DISASTER. This was a very preventable MAN-MADE DISASTER caused by massive deregulation from the past administration and that there was literally NOTHING the government could've done. The circumstances about where the leak is and how to contain it are like nothing ever before, and even the assholes who caused it can't figure out what the fuck to do.
This is Bush's Deregulation at its worst, not Obama's Katrina.
Thanks a lot Rust The more I think about the closer I am to tears and I'm not nearby at all. I should read less news in general.
Just, fuck.
wait, there's more!
long-term damage to tourism and fisheries will not only screw with our food supply, but also create even more poverty and joblessness within the south and the entire east coast
and unlike katrina, this is a problem that can't be fixed with any speed even if our government could be motivated to do anything constructive at all in between accepting bribes from the same people responsible for disasters like this
increased poverty, more class resentment, political alignment in the region will probably skew even further right if you care about that sort of thing, et cetera
to say nothing if this gets picked up by the atlantic and just leaves a trail of death in its wake as the currents carry it out to that giant island of plastic and trash roughly the size of texas
this is almost historical, in its own way, and it would probably be looked back on as such if our education system hadn't been co-opted by private interests as well
a point where american excess and irresponsibility caused near-irrevocable damage to the structure of the very country itself
The Gulf Oil Spill - Brought To You By The People Who Brought You Iran - The Theocratic Clusterfuck Of The Middle East, And Explosively Unsafe Refineries That Can Level City Blocks.
When Brazil forces better failsafes than we do, that should say it all.
And as for every person who sits there and calls this Obama's Katrina, I wish people would stand up and remind them that Katrina was a fucking hurricane... a NATURAL DISASTER. This was a very preventable MAN-MADE DISASTER caused by massive deregulation from the past administration and that there was literally NOTHING the government could've done. The circumstances about where the leak is and how to contain it are like nothing ever before, and even the assholes who caused it can't figure out what the fuck to do.
This is Bush's Deregulation at its worst, not Obama's Katrina.
You're asking for the country's politics to be based on facts, which is something that is unlikely to happen in our lifetime.
mynameisguido on
0
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
WarcryI'm getting my shit pushed in here!AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Just wanted to say I feel for you guys, but I doubt anything will change. Our whole society is totally dependant on oil. Alternatives require chemicals which the oil companies can restrict, due to them being byproducts. Meanwhile, everything gets ruined. :<
When Brazil forces better failsafes than we do, that should say it all.
And as for every person who sits there and calls this Obama's Katrina, I wish people would stand up and remind them that Katrina was a fucking hurricane... a NATURAL DISASTER. This was a very preventable MAN-MADE DISASTER caused by massive deregulation from the past administration and that there was literally NOTHING the government could've done. The circumstances about where the leak is and how to contain it are like nothing ever before, and even the assholes who caused it can't figure out what the fuck to do.
This is Bush's Deregulation at its worst, not Obama's Katrina.
You're asking for the country's politics to be based on facts, which is something that is unlikely to happen in our lifetime.
I ask for common fucking sense... something the country never had.
Just wanted to say I feel for you guys, but I doubt anything will change. Our whole society is totally dependant on oil. Alternatives require chemicals which the oil companies can restrict, due to them being byproducts. Meanwhile, everything gets ruined. :<
Anyone in this thread read Zodiac, by Neal Stephenson? Not really plot, but I'll put this description behind a spoiler tag anyway:
It describes a (potentially) apocalyptic eco-disaster, where a company tries to cover up a secret PCB dump site by releasing engineered microbes that eat PCBs and crap seawater. Except the project which produced these microbes had also developed a version that eats seawater and craps PCBs. And there was some cross-contamination in the samples. So, unless they get that shit out of the water stat, the entire ocean is basically getting Ice-9'd into hilariously toxic chemicals.
So with any luck, we'll soon hear about a miraculous solution to this problem getting fast-tracked through the regulatory system, and it'll promise to be completely safe...
(that's my apocalyptic prediction for this week! Next week, if this prediction doesn't pan out, I'll go back to nukes. Nukes or superplagues. Or meteors! Meteors are under-appreciated these days.)
nescientist on
0
BarcardiAll the WizardsUnder A Rock: AfganistanRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone very soon did a IRS style airplane attack on the local bp/haliburton/etc companies. Honestly at this point, hi 5 to whoever does it.
I also wouldn't be surprised if this lead to a massive environmental movement, with the south finally realizing oil is not the way to live. Then again i wouldn't be surprised if the current trend of the right blaming obama for everything continues and the south everglades and the reefs gets destroyed beyond measure, and the south still would want to drill.
What is really amazing to me still, is that BP somehow still has no idea what is going on with what did and did not work... or even now is not telling.
Just wanted to say I feel for you guys, but I doubt anything will change. Our whole society is totally dependant on oil. Alternatives require chemicals which the oil companies can restrict, due to them being byproducts. Meanwhile, everything gets ruined. :<
Considering the oil companies also own the alternatives I don't see why they would restrict it. People use oil because it is significantly cheaper than the next alternative.
It will be pretty hard to pin this one on Obama, considering he has only been in Office a little over a year, and I'm sure this well was approved or has been running since long before he took office.
What will be pinned on Obama is what happens to the economy in the areas that get devastated by this disaster. And after the clusterfuck of the Stimulus plan, and all the Tea-party whining about any and all government intervention that might benefit minorities, a Gulf Coast stimulus plan would seem to be an impossibility.
I can already see any Gulf Coast stimulus plan being branded as reparations or FEMA cheques for illigals that came over on a boat.
What is really amazing to me still, is that BP somehow still has no idea what is going on with what did and did not work... or even now is not telling.
After what happened in Texas City...you're surprised?
They've already done polling here in NC, and even after the oil spill, people still want to drill off the outer banks... to say I was pissed would be putting it lightly, but surprised, again, not at fucking all.
It will be pretty hard to pin this one on Obama, considering he has only been in Office a little over a year, and I'm sure this well was approved or has been running since long before he took office.
People will believe what they want to believe whether it is the truth or not.
mynameisguido on
0
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
This just in! Average American Citizen an Obese Fucking Idiot!
It will be pretty hard to pin this one on Obama, considering he has only been in Office a little over a year, and I'm sure this well was approved or has been running since long before he took office.
What will be pinned on Obama is what happens to the economy in the areas that get devastated by this disaster. And after the clusterfuck of the Stimulus plan, and all the Tea-party whining about any and all government intervention that might benefit minorities, a Gulf Coast stimulus plan would seem to be an impossibility.
I can already see any Gulf Coast stimulus plan being branded as reparations or FEMA cheques for illigals that came over on a boat.
The Southern Wellness Stimulus Package sounds nice. Add in a logo featuring a nuclear family (give the momma heels and a dress) and it might be palatable. A good tag-line could do wonders, "Help the South Help Herself."
Posts
why
i think we'd all like a little reasonable doubt at this point
Also not to take this too far off topic, but in hindsight being kicked out of my brother's apartment (and thusly the Bay Area) was for the better because the Bay Area has been turning into a major shit hole from what I hear from those that remain.
Definitely. If anyone has anything to dispute the numbers I've been seeing, I'd like to see it.
The fact is, none of the numbers we are seeing are accurate. They are estimates. Educated guesses. I'd actually put my money on the reality being worse than what we are being told right now.
now now, that's just a silly coping mechanism and you know it
ah that's better
I know what you will say, but gosh, why can't we get a break?
Welcome to the American Chernobyl. Fallout not included.
I guess that will be sort of interesting
PSN: HooverFanPA
Steam: HooverFan
I hope we at least learn something from this.
half the country will scream this that happened because the government's taxes on BP were too high to make a better failsafe feasible
most of the other half will scream that this was obama's katrina, a product of slow government response
BP will make half-hearted apologies and then use backdoor leverage to largely eliminate any financial responsibility for the accident, and continue on as usual
Seriously, all you'd have to do is loop Republicans yelling "drill, baby, drill" and showing the coastline afterwards.
Just, fuck.
You described the same half twice. But you're probably largely right in terms of results.
And as for every person who sits there and calls this Obama's Katrina, I wish people would stand up and remind them that Katrina was a fucking hurricane... a NATURAL DISASTER. This was a very preventable MAN-MADE DISASTER caused by massive deregulation from the past administration and that there was literally NOTHING the government could've done. The circumstances about where the leak is and how to contain it are like nothing ever before, and even the assholes who caused it can't figure out what the fuck to do.
This is Bush's Deregulation at its worst, not Obama's Katrina.
PSN: HooverFanPA
Steam: HooverFan
wait, there's more!
long-term damage to tourism and fisheries will not only screw with our food supply, but also create even more poverty and joblessness within the south and the entire east coast
and unlike katrina, this is a problem that can't be fixed with any speed even if our government could be motivated to do anything constructive at all in between accepting bribes from the same people responsible for disasters like this
increased poverty, more class resentment, political alignment in the region will probably skew even further right if you care about that sort of thing, et cetera
to say nothing if this gets picked up by the atlantic and just leaves a trail of death in its wake as the currents carry it out to that giant island of plastic and trash roughly the size of texas
this is almost historical, in its own way, and it would probably be looked back on as such if our education system hadn't been co-opted by private interests as well
a point where american excess and irresponsibility caused near-irrevocable damage to the structure of the very country itself
You're asking for the country's politics to be based on facts, which is something that is unlikely to happen in our lifetime.
We're on the same page.
Have a beer.
I ask for common fucking sense... something the country never had.
PSN: HooverFanPA
Steam: HooverFan
The Invisible Hand (TM) will fix everything!
So with any luck, we'll soon hear about a miraculous solution to this problem getting fast-tracked through the regulatory system, and it'll promise to be completely safe...
(that's my apocalyptic prediction for this week! Next week, if this prediction doesn't pan out, I'll go back to nukes. Nukes or superplagues. Or meteors! Meteors are under-appreciated these days.)
I also wouldn't be surprised if this lead to a massive environmental movement, with the south finally realizing oil is not the way to live. Then again i wouldn't be surprised if the current trend of the right blaming obama for everything continues and the south everglades and the reefs gets destroyed beyond measure, and the south still would want to drill.
What is really amazing to me still, is that BP somehow still has no idea what is going on with what did and did not work... or even now is not telling.
Considering the oil companies also own the alternatives I don't see why they would restrict it. People use oil because it is significantly cheaper than the next alternative.
What will be pinned on Obama is what happens to the economy in the areas that get devastated by this disaster. And after the clusterfuck of the Stimulus plan, and all the Tea-party whining about any and all government intervention that might benefit minorities, a Gulf Coast stimulus plan would seem to be an impossibility.
I can already see any Gulf Coast stimulus plan being branded as reparations or FEMA cheques for illigals that came over on a boat.
MWO: Adamski
After what happened in Texas City...you're surprised?
PSN: HooverFanPA
Steam: HooverFan
People will believe what they want to believe whether it is the truth or not.
Story at Eleven!
The Southern Wellness Stimulus Package sounds nice. Add in a logo featuring a nuclear family (give the momma heels and a dress) and it might be palatable. A good tag-line could do wonders, "Help the South Help Herself."