does anyone seriously not just automate every single worker?
Automating workers in Civ is like gutter bumpers in bowling or something. It's the super-casual approach to Civ.
Not that I'm ragging on anyone for playing that way; it takes a certain amount of patience to manage them individually. I used to do it myself, actually. But if you really get into the game and want to play your very best, though, you'll need to carefully consider each worker move to get the most out of it.
It's more of an issue in the early game, of course, when every tiny decision can have a huge impact in the long run. Mid to late game I still don't use the automation, but I definitely don't put as much thought into every worker action either.
If you're playing an older edition of Civ, it has to be Civ 2.
Its the law.
Also, it looks like Civ 4 complete is one of the few games they have up for mac on Steam. Might get in on this action in a few days.
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MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
I also spam workers like nobody's business, so giving each of them individual direction the entire game would probably quadruple the amount of time I spend in the renaissance era
generally I find myself discovering railroad technology and then having a complete rail system maybe six turns later
does anyone seriously not just automate every single worker?
Automating workers in Civ is like gutter bumpers in bowling or something. It's the super-casual approach to Civ.
Not that I'm ragging on anyone for playing that way; it takes a certain amount of patience to manage them individually. I used to do it myself, actually. But if you really get into the game and want to play your very best, though, you'll need to carefully consider each worker move to get the most out of it.
It's more of an issue in the early game, of course, when every tiny decision can have a huge impact in the long run. Mid to late game I still don't use the automation, but I definitely don't put as much thought into every worker action either.
I tend to build workers for a specific use and then automate them after that.
in Civ 3 I'd have pretty much a worker per city at least early on
4 that seems pretty unnecessary
I dunno, I still have almost that many most of the time. Maybe like a 3:4 worker-to-city ratio. Sometimes more if I can swing it. The difference between founding a new city and letting it sit for ten or more turns while you wait for workers to be available, vs. having two workers to start improving it on the turn it's founded, can be huge.
There are definitely periods when you end up with idle workers if you have a lot of them, but it does mean you can take advantage of new improvements that much more quickly when they become available.
Just out of curiosity, what difficulty levels do you folks play on? I typically stick to Noble (aka "normal"), though I'm thinking about trying Prince.
For developing squares around cities, I always do it manually. Can't trust the automated workers not to build workshops in your food city or windmills in your production one.
Once cities are all fully developed, I usually get the workers to automatically build trade routes. Then they go and build roads everywhere and gain resources that are within your culture borders that you may have missed. And later on, they go and build railroads everywhere. If you need a worker to upgrade a specific square, there is usually one close by.
Just out of curiosity, what difficulty levels do you folks play on? I typically stick to Noble (aka "normal"), though I'm thinking about trying Prince.
Currently Prince. It already feels like the AI is cheating heavily.
The best thing about Civ is when you have a AI city completely fucking surrounded. You wait one turn so your dudes can rest up and attack with full movement and whoops now the two Bowmen are 6 Bowmen and 7 Spearmen.
JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Manually controlling your workers to develop your cities is one of the most important ways to improve your game. Once you know how to use them well, you'll start to see how entirely retarded the worker AI is. Happily, the actual AI has workers who are just as retarded, so that's an advantage you enjoy as a fleshy human.
The best thing about Civ is when you have a AI city completely fucking surrounded. You wait one turn so your dudes can rest up and attack with full movement and whoops now the two Bowmen are 6 Bowmen and 7 Spearmen.
At least make the cheating subtle.
Are you sure you aren't just seeing the AI move in reinforcements or draft/rush-produce units from the city? I've never heard of them simply spawning units out of thin air, regardless of difficulty....
It definitively happens. You can see this for example if you come across an undefended city during the first few turns - should you declare war, a warrior will spawn instantly inside the city. I've also seen stuff like this happen during the late game.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
It definitively happens. You can see this for example if you come across an undefended city during the first few turns - should you declare war, a warrior will spawn instantly inside the city. I've also seen stuff like this happen during the late game.
Not always. I've wiped out enemy capitals with my warrior with pretty fair regularity. If you're talking about Civ IV, the developers have been extremely adamant that "the AI doesn't cheat." It doesn't seem like the sort of thing you want to boast about when you know you've got a hundred thousand autistic nerds looking to prove you wrong. The Civ community is terrifying
Most of the problems with "warping" units come from the tendency of our brain to treat the worldmap like the real world. Basically, if we can see seven of the eight tiles surrounding a city, we can't help but feel like we should be able to see into the eighth square just a little. It's often a shock when that last darkened square holds an unsuspected warrior or entire enemy stack.
in Civ 3 I'd have pretty much a worker per city at least early on
4 that seems pretty unnecessary
I dunno, I still have almost that many most of the time. Maybe like a 3:4 worker-to-city ratio. Sometimes more if I can swing it. The difference between founding a new city and letting it sit for ten or more turns while you wait for workers to be available, vs. having two workers to start improving it on the turn it's founded, can be huge.
There are definitely periods when you end up with idle workers if you have a lot of them, but it does mean you can take advantage of new improvements that much more quickly when they become available.
Just out of curiosity, what difficulty levels do you folks play on? I typically stick to Noble (aka "normal"), though I'm thinking about trying Prince.
I was up to regent on three, which I think is two difficulty leves up.
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
Automatic workers is for chumps
i start as india and micromanage every one through the whole damn thing
yeah I was under the impression that only the early resources actually needed specific improvements beyond a road to actually harvest
also the worker automation algorithms are pretty smart
I don't really find any "oh god why would you put that there" moments
are y'all worried they're doing things in the wrong order or that they're doing the wrong things entirely?
There isn't just one good way to build improvements. You'll want different ones at different cities, and sometimes you want to change them depending on the circumstances of the game. I would never trust the automation to make the right choices.
For example, if you're running a specialist economy, you basically never want cottages. If you're playing a financial civ going for cottage spam, you won't want many farms. I almost never use workshops or watermills, both of which the AI tends to favor (especially workshops).
Also, all resources need a specific improvement (or a fort) to harvest them. The "later resources" mainly need mines (coal, uranium, and aluminum), except for oil which gets a well. Putting forts on resources is dumb if they're within a city's radius as well, because I don't think you get the yield bonuses from them that you do from the normal improvements.
Personally I never bother with forts except to build canals. I think they're a waste of time, militarily.
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JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Forts are good for garrisoning aircraft in the late game. Your cities can only hold eight at most, and your borders tend to be far away at that point. Forts act like a city with an airport for the purposes of stationing aircraft.
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unless it's time to clean up pollution
Automating workers in Civ is like gutter bumpers in bowling or something. It's the super-casual approach to Civ.
Not that I'm ragging on anyone for playing that way; it takes a certain amount of patience to manage them individually. I used to do it myself, actually. But if you really get into the game and want to play your very best, though, you'll need to carefully consider each worker move to get the most out of it.
It's more of an issue in the early game, of course, when every tiny decision can have a huge impact in the long run. Mid to late game I still don't use the automation, but I definitely don't put as much thought into every worker action either.
If you're playing an older edition of Civ, it has to be Civ 2.
Its the law.
Also, it looks like Civ 4 complete is one of the few games they have up for mac on Steam. Might get in on this action in a few days.
3DS: 5241-1953-7031
generally I find myself discovering railroad technology and then having a complete rail system maybe six turns later
I tend to build workers for a specific use and then automate them after that.
4 that seems pretty unnecessary
Good worker management in the first 50 turns can make a bad draw into a good draw.
I dunno, I still have almost that many most of the time. Maybe like a 3:4 worker-to-city ratio. Sometimes more if I can swing it. The difference between founding a new city and letting it sit for ten or more turns while you wait for workers to be available, vs. having two workers to start improving it on the turn it's founded, can be huge.
There are definitely periods when you end up with idle workers if you have a lot of them, but it does mean you can take advantage of new improvements that much more quickly when they become available.
Just out of curiosity, what difficulty levels do you folks play on? I typically stick to Noble (aka "normal"), though I'm thinking about trying Prince.
Once cities are all fully developed, I usually get the workers to automatically build trade routes. Then they go and build roads everywhere and gain resources that are within your culture borders that you may have missed. And later on, they go and build railroads everywhere. If you need a worker to upgrade a specific square, there is usually one close by.
At least make the cheating subtle.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Are you sure you aren't just seeing the AI move in reinforcements or draft/rush-produce units from the city? I've never heard of them simply spawning units out of thin air, regardless of difficulty....
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Not always. I've wiped out enemy capitals with my warrior with pretty fair regularity. If you're talking about Civ IV, the developers have been extremely adamant that "the AI doesn't cheat." It doesn't seem like the sort of thing you want to boast about when you know you've got a hundred thousand autistic nerds looking to prove you wrong. The Civ community is terrifying
Most of the problems with "warping" units come from the tendency of our brain to treat the worldmap like the real world. Basically, if we can see seven of the eight tiles surrounding a city, we can't help but feel like we should be able to see into the eighth square just a little. It's often a shock when that last darkened square holds an unsuspected warrior or entire enemy stack.
Forts collect resources too.
I was up to regent on three, which I think is two difficulty leves up.
i start as india and micromanage every one through the whole damn thing
want to play w/ pals
3DS: 5241-1953-7031
I'm sure they have, but there are a crapton of war sims that are better than that anyway.
edit: Hearts of Iron 2 & 3 come to mind, but they are crazy, life-suckingly deep.
it was alright
yeah I was under the impression that only the early resources actually needed specific improvements beyond a road to actually harvest
also the worker automation algorithms are pretty smart
I don't really find any "oh god why would you put that there" moments
are y'all worried they're doing things in the wrong order or that they're doing the wrong things entirely?
It was good.
I mean, it was essentially the board game. No rule changes or anything. About as pure as you can get.
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If you go to the options, you can set it so that automated workers don't replace old improvements.
There isn't just one good way to build improvements. You'll want different ones at different cities, and sometimes you want to change them depending on the circumstances of the game. I would never trust the automation to make the right choices.
For example, if you're running a specialist economy, you basically never want cottages. If you're playing a financial civ going for cottage spam, you won't want many farms. I almost never use workshops or watermills, both of which the AI tends to favor (especially workshops).
Also, all resources need a specific improvement (or a fort) to harvest them. The "later resources" mainly need mines (coal, uranium, and aluminum), except for oil which gets a well. Putting forts on resources is dumb if they're within a city's radius as well, because I don't think you get the yield bonuses from them that you do from the normal improvements.
Personally I never bother with forts except to build canals. I think they're a waste of time, militarily.