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The Tragic Death of the Western [Anime Industry]
Jintor
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So the Anime thread was closed a while back for being really, really creepy. But I kind of want to talk about anime still. That said, I don't actively follow anime really anymore (the new season of K-On I'll probably follow, just so I can turn my brain off for a while), but I do follow the anime world, or fandom, and of course its commercial counterparts, the business of anime. So let's, you know, talk about that, and hope desperately I don't get infraction'd for doing so.
So Bang! Zoom! President Eric Sherman recently posted something up on his blog claiming that Anime in the west is going to wither and die due to piracy.
[Link here]
Now on some level I think he does have a point, but it's the same point that anybody does in regards to piracy. Piracy definitely damages the industry, especially one as fragile and somewhat superfluous as the western dubbing industry/western anime distribution industry. But it's definitely not the only reason for the screaming and the gnashing of teeth of a whole bunch of western anime distributors. Oversaturation. Overpricing. Selling any old crap that comes in fresh from Japan. The big one is probably convenience - almost no publishers (except for Kadokawa and Funimation, I believe) offer stuff like same-day translation for the western market, probably because it's simply not as profitable or profitable at all to cater to us.
Personally, I just think we're seeing a fallback. Anime in the west over-extended its reach, over-estimated its ability to bring new audiences to the table and to profit from existing ones. Now it's got to figure out a way to become profitable again without alienating half its userbase via the morality police. Unfortunately this fallback means people being fired and shows not being brought over from Japan, but them's the bricks. I do believe that in general, anime fans have an enormous sense of entitlement (this may stem from the anime industry in the west's roots being based almost solely on piracy) and that, to some extent, they are part of the problem. But hey, let's talk it out.
/edit You can watch anime LEGIT for free (i.e. ad-supported) at Hulu, Funimation, Cartoon Network, Crunchyroll, a rental service, iTunes, etc etc etc. Some of those may only apply within the US of A. Props to Incenjucar.
So Bang! Zoom! President Eric Sherman recently posted something up on his blog claiming that Anime in the west is going to wither and die due to piracy.
You must have noticed by now that many of the publishers that brought anime to the West have been shut down or substantially down-sized. There are only a few places left still able to bring titles to our shores. This is a critical year for anime. There’s no other way to say it. And I realized this morning that it was time for me to sound an urgent alarm.
If people don’t resist the urge to get their fix illegally, the entire industry is about to fizzle out. It won’t be a big dramatic change at this point. Last year we saw Bandai fire 90% of their staff on one Monday in January, and two years ago we saw Geneon (neé Pioneer) shut their doors and auction off their wares to the highest bidder. CPM died a slow, painful death. And ADV fell hard and fast, the way mighty giants will. But from here on, it won’t be so exciting. Japan is already suffering and struggling to bring out quality titles. They can’t rely on everything being picked up by US distributors anymore. And little by little, it just won’t be here anymore.
You can’t find much anime at Best Buy now. In fact, where can you find it for sale? Think about that. There are fewer new titles coming out, and less and less stuff will be in English, because it’s just not worth the cost of dubbing it. It’s true that entertainment distribution models are going to be changing dramatically. DVD may be on the way out forever, and online TV is becoming a reality very quickly. But so far, there are no successful ways to monetize online entertainment. Not so that creators can afford to produce and distribute quality content.
Anime is going to die.
Unless YOU change. Right now. Stop stealing. If you have committed theft, robbery, shop-lifting, or just “downloading some stuff through torrent reactor,” then just stop doing it — now. You probably wouldn’t go into a supermarket and put a package of swiss cheese under your shirt and walk out without paying. Nor would you walk into Best Buy and try to walk out with Guitar Hero, bypassing the cash register. Why? Is it because you might get caught? Or are there other issues, such as standards of morality, that dictate how you live your life.
[Link here]
Now on some level I think he does have a point, but it's the same point that anybody does in regards to piracy. Piracy definitely damages the industry, especially one as fragile and somewhat superfluous as the western dubbing industry/western anime distribution industry. But it's definitely not the only reason for the screaming and the gnashing of teeth of a whole bunch of western anime distributors. Oversaturation. Overpricing. Selling any old crap that comes in fresh from Japan. The big one is probably convenience - almost no publishers (except for Kadokawa and Funimation, I believe) offer stuff like same-day translation for the western market, probably because it's simply not as profitable or profitable at all to cater to us.
Personally, I just think we're seeing a fallback. Anime in the west over-extended its reach, over-estimated its ability to bring new audiences to the table and to profit from existing ones. Now it's got to figure out a way to become profitable again without alienating half its userbase via the morality police. Unfortunately this fallback means people being fired and shows not being brought over from Japan, but them's the bricks. I do believe that in general, anime fans have an enormous sense of entitlement (this may stem from the anime industry in the west's roots being based almost solely on piracy) and that, to some extent, they are part of the problem. But hey, let's talk it out.
/edit You can watch anime LEGIT for free (i.e. ad-supported) at Hulu, Funimation, Cartoon Network, Crunchyroll, a rental service, iTunes, etc etc etc. Some of those may only apply within the US of A. Props to Incenjucar.
Jintor on
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*ANN has perhaps the best anime-related podcast there is from an industry standpoint, too. (Heat Guy J)
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
I mean, I started watchinig Bleach because I saw the first few dubbed episodes on Adult Swm (friends had told me about it earlier but it had always sounded dumb, now it's my guilty pleasure lol), but they had dubbed one season and the show at that time was up to like, episode 140, so fansubs to the rescue.
How are anime DVD sales any different from movie DVD sales? People could just download movies but they buy DVDs because it's nice to collect them. For me, fansubs are the way I see an anime "in the theater", lots of stuff isn't on TV. I've definitely bought box sets of several beloved anime series despite having them already on my hard drive, so uh yea?
I just don't understand what he's arguing because as far as I can tell, downloading fansubs is the ONLY avenue of exposure for most anime series, is he expecting people to buy entire series on DVD based on the box art?
Also, one company you can say seems to do well for themselves right now is Funimation. The big reason for that is they get their shows on television. They've just started selling yet another set of DBZ DVDs, that's like 3 or 4 different sets since they've started doing DVDs for that show. I have to assume the money they make from DBZ due to it having been on television helps them do a lot more then anyone else. I'd guess it is similar at Viz with Naruto though they don't seem to be quite as ubiquitous as Funi.
I like anime. A couple of times a year, I like an anime so much I'll pay money for it. That's about how I feel about western tv and movies as well. As a cheapass, lazy, American I feel TV really ought to be ad supported. It's a business model that suites the media and market. Overpriced, feature light DVDs released months or years after the initial run that add nothing to the viewing experience really just does not seem like something that is going to work.
So, this article urges us to support a failing business model in the hope that somehow the whole nature of the US media consumption model will change. That seems unlikely to me. I could agree with a call for people to watch legitimate anime through ad supported streaming sites. This would help demonstrate the viability of a new model to IP holders and the advertisers, which will hopefully illustrate that it can be a successful model for US distribution(in combination with licensing with US networks and some localized DVD sales). or whatever.
Ok but this is exactly what is happening right now by fans, except via torrent rather than streaming, and it does entice people to drop cash on DVDs (or at least, it does for me). As far as I can tell it's the piracy that the editorial in the OP is referring to. I wouldn't expect piracy of DVDs themselves to hurt anime any more than it does movies or live TV (i.e. it cuts into profits some, but far from "killing" them).
While I agree that it won't work as the initial medium by which you expect people to watch your series, this sort of thing sells for shows people love. I don't need features or anything adding to the view experience to entice me to buy the Farscape DVDs, I just loved that show and wanted those DVDs. It's the same reason I have the Cowboy Bebop DVDs, but I saw Cowboy Bebop on TV (Adult Swim again) so...
The problem definitely is their lack of "regular" exposure before they expect people to buy shit. There's the anime channel that some cable providers have and a couple hours on cartoon network, and that's it.
In the top 25 the 13 series DVD/Blu-Rays present have all aired on television. Most of the rest are Miyazaki movies. In fact in the top 100 overall there are only 10 series DVD/Blu-Rays that have not aired on television.
In the ANN Podcast, he specifies he is not talking about fansubs as it is being released. He's talking about people who take the R1 DVD rip it, and stick it up on a torrent.
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
Why would this hurt anime more than any other medium? It's far easier to download a DVD rip of The Dark Knight but people want that sitting on their shelves
Dark Knight is going to sell a million plus units easily on DVD/bluray. Most anime probably doesn't sell 1/20th of that. In a small niche industry losing a few thousand units to piracy hurts far worse. Also, with a more tech savvy viewership, they know more about torrents and the like than the average movie consumer.
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
It's really a triple whammy. Quadruple if you count the recession.
It's not the same thing morally, legally or physically. A pirated episode is not a lost sale let alone lost product. In the case of anime, the pirates usually aren't even stealing your product! They're instead downloading an unlicensed, free alternative. Probably because they don't have money or they don't think the product is worth paying for.
Anime in the west is dying because it's a niche market full of mediocre product geared towards people who don't have money.
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
Or is it just the western branch?
I love their stuff. My wife and I are watching The Last Exile on Netflix at the moment.
I'd love if there were more anime on Netflix and Hulu to watch.
All anime is licensed by the originally Japanese companies. Don't confuse 'not licensed by a US company' with 'no one owns the rights in the US'.
GeneonUSA is closed, Bandai US doesn't seem to be going very strong at all, ADV shuttered and became Section23/Sentai Filmworks, Viz just laid off 40% of their staff, and MediaBlasters laid off like 25% earlier in the year. Funimation rescued a lot of licenses from Geneon(including Last Exile, Black Lagoon, and FLCL).
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
In the UK, very little anime ever gets shown on TV - and when it does, it's on subscription channels with a vastly reduced viewership and heavily skewed towards the younger end of the market. The anime that sells has either been 1) exposed to the mass market in some form (a la Gibhli), or 2) is much cheaper than other anime. I spoke to the head of ADV UK a few months after it died, and he was principally lamenting the utter inflexibility that Japanese companies show towards competitive pricing - their attitude seems to be "If they don't respect our work and aren't willing to pay top-dollar for it, then they don't deserve it".
Frequently, these companies also demand that you license properties in bulk - if you want to get the currently hot series, then you have to buy several other crap ones as well - and still sell them in 7 volumes costing £20 each! Ironically, these low-grade mecha shows and the like sometimes prove to be bestsellers purely because the licensors sometimes relent and allow them to be sold a bit more cheaply...which in turn convinces the licensors that there's more demand for this rubbish.
I have however noticed a new label cropping up on Amazon: 'Anime Legends', selling well-regarded series like Wolf's Rain, Haruhi and Eureka 7 for a very competitive price - £15 for 26 eps (or 13 for Haruhi). Anybody heard anything about the label, or is it UK-only?
Unlicensed as in general copyright, not just in the way that it's used by the subbing community.
They don't beleive in silly things like "supply and demand" and charge an arm and a leg for a two episode disc of a show, (and your first born for an HD disc) undercut western licencers because otherwise there would be massive importing from Japan.
Unwilling to change their business model, they instead start focusing on a narrower and narrower niche that can pay the rediculous prices they demand.
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
*BEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS*
THIS IS A COPYRIGHTED GAME FROM AKSYS! IF I FIND YOU CREATED A TORRENT, I'LL BREAK INTO YOUR HOUSE AND DEVOUR YOUR BODY AND SOUL!
*Guitar Solo*
I had to turn my brain off hard to enjoy Rosario Vampire. Shit, I think that was my first harem show. Every time those supernatural ladies were fighting over him I kept thinking "Bitches call me Gandalf" from a certain song. But if that were an American show, Moka would be all "wanna make out?" and he'd say "okay" and the show would still be less creepy with the panty shots gone.
I own just one anime, FLCL. And there's a Blu Ray in the works, and I will buy it fierce. If I were to purchase shows, it would have to be Gurren Lagann, Death Note (I only own the two movies) and Cowboy Bebop. I can't picture myself buying anything new.
Definitely available in the US, I see them on Amazon and in brick and mortar stores in NYC, and for the record the "Anime Legends" box for Cowboy Bebop is gorgeous.
this is what they're charging.
That's due to the monument of stupid that is the Japanese market. Read Debito's articles about building a house in Hokkaido - when it's both cheaper and results in better product to import building components from the US, you know there's a problem.
In comparison, The entire first season of Avatar: The Last Airbender.
Huey and Riley also say hello.
I remember spending 75 dollars on Fooly Cooly at the time. That would no longer fly with me now.
Gonna nitpick here and say that charging a high price to a dedicated niche is still following the laws of supply and demand, even if it might not be the most efficient or profitable plan.
Especially compared to other series, which charge 20 bucks for less than half the amount of content.
And now, I'm kind of curious as to what was so creepy out it.
On the funny note of ridiculous charging practices for distribution companies, apparently DVD sets for Dominion Tank Police and New Dominion Tank Police range from about $70 to $150 online, pretty consistently. For the US release anyway.
And for some strange reason, the UK release can be had for $7 to $10 dollars. The difference is more than enough to buy a region free DVD player (though I'm lucky, my Xbox 360 plays UK DVDs, unlike my PS3).
Bizarre.
EDIT: This, of course, has more to do with being out of print than anything, but what is bizarre is that it only effects the US release.
Its not anime, but Doctor Who DVDs go for 90 dollars! Why do they have to charge such an exorbitant price? I'd rather just get the episodes I want on iTunes (and I do).
Could they not release anime on iTunes?
Why only Wal-Mart, I'm not sure. They came in a crappy case, but the DVDs themselves were fine.
EDIT: Wow. That's pretty bad. My only consolation is that somewhere, 15 pages before that happened (I'm ballparking the figure) I warned something like this would happen.
Sub only DVDs have a record of selling less than those with dubs. Which is why most sub only DVDs nowadays seem to be for fairly niche titles (such as older titles without much of a fanbase in the west). The GL DVDs that were sub only were a different case I suspect, in that it was a company wanting to capitalize on something that was popular on the internet as soon as possible.
And keep in mind that compilation was just released.
I know it's not anime, but goddamn is it a great show and $26 bucks for the first season is a steal.
keep this thread on the topic of the economics and business of anime or animation and we will all be fine here
cool?
I watched several of the new shows in Japan, and am now a fan of B-Gata H-Kei (B-Cup Sex Maniac). If it weren't for the fact that I could watch an episode of this show for free online, there would be no way in hell that I would ever see it. If I were to see a DVD labeled "B-Cup Sex Maniac" in Best Buy, I most likely would have no interest in it (I'd also probably think it was a hentai). Even if I was interested, I doubt I'd want to pay $20 just to see what it's like. Even if I was willing to pay $20 to watch something I'd never even heard of before, I doubt I'd be willing to take a DVD titled "B-Cup Sex Maniac" to the counter.
I'd miss out on a hilarious show that, surprisingly, contains much less fan service than a typical anime.