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[WoW] What Are All These Buttons, Paladin Thread?

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Posts

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    There wasn't a lot of AoE damage built into heroics in TBC until Magister's Terrace, but the 2nd and last boss in there were a shitload harder for a Holy Paladin than they were for other healers, especially Kel'thuzad. Holy shock sucked back then, and healing on the move consisted of only Holy shock. Also, Zul'jin eagle phase was an absolute nightmare for a holy paladin, and you had to get carried through that phase by the other healer, plain and simple.

    It wasn't a lot of things, it's just those things should never come up, ever again. All healers should have single target heals, and at least one group heal. That will forever remain my opinion. It's fine that priests get more AoE heals than the other guys(well in cata Shamans will have 2 also), but Holy Paladins should have a good AoE healing tool, and will in fact probably need it if Beacon is changed to not work with anything other than the fast mana efficient heal. It's all speculation, but I like to speculate about expansion stuff. =)

    Joshmvii on
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So, we have my Paladin who hit 80 a couple days ago, and I'm constantly running random heroics and Forge of Souls/HoR/ToC5 on Normal for gear. I'm hoping to get the shield from heroic Culling of Stratholme (or, even better, the shield from HoR) soon, but I'm wondering what to upgrade next with my Triumphs. I'm Defense capped right now, but I know that probably won't last once I upgrade something else and lose Defense in favor of some other stat.

    I'm thinking I may hold off on my head/shoulders for just a little while and get a new Libram and some trinkets and a ring, but I'm just not sure.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot of AoE damage built into heroics in TBC until Magister's Terrace

    Err....no. There was shitloads of it.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot of AoE damage built into heroics in TBC until Magister's Terrace

    Err....no. There was shitloads of it.

    I guess my wife must be an even better healer than I realized, because I never even noticed while tanking all of them. =) I must just be having a foggy memory since it's been so long since we did them. All I know is we AoE steamrolled every heroic in TBC without ever slowing down until Magister's Terrace opened, then we had to actually use CC and wipe sometimes like everybody else who wasn't already in t6 gear at that point.

    Joshmvii on
  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot of AoE damage built into heroics in TBC until Magister's Terrace

    Err....no. There was shitloads of it.

    I guess my wife must be an even better healer than I realized, because I never even noticed while tanking all of them. =) I must just be having a foggy memory since it's been so long since we did them. All I know is we AoE steamrolled every heroic in TBC without ever slowing down until Magister's Terrace opened, then we had to actually use CC and wipe sometimes like everybody else who wasn't already in t6 gear at that point.

    TBC heriocs in summary: 360 cleave.

    You may not be remembering because after a month or two even Blizzard realised it was retarded and removed it all. There were still plenty of other AoE sources though.

    Rami on
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Rami wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot of AoE damage built into heroics in TBC until Magister's Terrace

    Err....no. There was shitloads of it.

    I guess my wife must be an even better healer than I realized, because I never even noticed while tanking all of them. =) I must just be having a foggy memory since it's been so long since we did them. All I know is we AoE steamrolled every heroic in TBC without ever slowing down until Magister's Terrace opened, then we had to actually use CC and wipe sometimes like everybody else who wasn't already in t6 gear at that point.

    TBC heriocs in summary: 360 cleave.

    You may not be remembering because after a month or two even Blizzard realised it was retarded and removed it all. There were still plenty of other AoE sources though.

    I think I missed out on that, though now that you mention it I remember hearing horror stories about them. We started playing our characters around the time when they made Paladins able to tank properly. We missed out on the pre nerf heroics that were supposedly so hard.

    Joshmvii on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Even post nerf it was still kind of a bitch for Holy Pallies. Holy shock had a range of like 15 yards, healed for a pitiful amount while costing a relatively huge amount of mana, and had something like a 10 second cooldown.

    In one of the later patches, somewhere around Sunwell I think, they upped the healing coefficient, and with that + I think the 2PC PvP set bonus, it was almost a worthwhile spell.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • QuetzatcoatlQuetzatcoatl Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Rami wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    There wasn't a lot of AoE damage built into heroics in TBC until Magister's Terrace

    Err....no. There was shitloads of it.

    I guess my wife must be an even better healer than I realized, because I never even noticed while tanking all of them. =) I must just be having a foggy memory since it's been so long since we did them. All I know is we AoE steamrolled every heroic in TBC without ever slowing down until Magister's Terrace opened, then we had to actually use CC and wipe sometimes like everybody else who wasn't already in t6 gear at that point.

    TBC heriocs in summary: 360 cleave.

    You may not be remembering because after a month or two even Blizzard realised it was retarded and removed it all. There were still plenty of other AoE sources though.

    I think I missed out on that, though now that you mention it I remember hearing horror stories about them. We started playing our characters around the time when they made Paladins able to tank properly. We missed out on the pre nerf heroics that were supposedly so hard.

    Heroic shattered halls was the worse instance ever. Enhancement spec shaman with shitty stamina meant I enough health to survive less than half a cleave. At any moment, boom dead.

    Quetzatcoatl on
  • AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    what glyphs would i generally want for prot pvp?

    i have extra badges to spend and since ret is literally the worst thing ever i've decided to finish out my protvp set.

    Angry on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Angry wrote: »
    what glyphs would i generally want for prot pvp?

    i have extra badges to spend and since ret is literally the worst thing ever i've decided to finish out my protvp set.
    I use Judgement, Seal of Vengeance, and Hammer of the Righteous.

    Also, Ret isn't literally the worst thing ever. Cancer is worse.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I have absolutely no experience Prot PvPing on my Paladin, but I would think the Avenger's Shield glyph would probably come in handy in PvP. You only get to daze one person at a time, but the double damage would surely be fun.

    Joshmvii on
  • formatformat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Angry wrote: »
    what glyphs would i generally want for prot pvp?

    i have extra badges to spend and since ret is literally the worst thing ever i've decided to finish out my protvp set.

    Glyph of Avenger Shield is the highest damaging ability when glyphed

    Choose 2 of the following,
    --Glyph of Hammer of Justice
    --Glyph of Hammer of Wrath
    --Glyph of Salvation
    --Glyph of Judgement
    --Glyph of Shield of Righteousness

    Myself I went with Judgement and SotR. But some people swear up and down for HoJ and if you want to stay alive longer use Salv.
    Don't bother with glyph of seal of vengeance, unless you are really worried about rogues.

    Minor Glyphs
    --Glyph of Sense Undead
    --Glyph of the Wise
    --Glyph of Blessing of Kings

    You will use Blessing of Sanctuary, but if it is dispelled rebuff Kings, for mana savings here we take the Kings glyph.
    Sense undead is better than nothing, extra cleave damage on pets and DKs.
    If you are low on mana you will want to switch to Seal of wisdom.

    Not that anyone asked but:
    A general guide for prot pvp for max effectiveness you will want a slow 1h, high block value, high str, for this reason ret pvp gear gemmed for str is the best. I like 2pc prot t9 for the HotR damage, Pants have precious hit rating and the ret pvp gloves are kinda useless, but t9 helm is also good.

    Divine plea when entering combat with SoV. Use the libram that gives strength on vengeance tick.
    If you run low on mana or if Divine plea falls off switch to wisdom.

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I don't like the downside to glyphing Avenger's shield.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    At which level should I start speccing prot to tank dungeons? When I leveled my paladin to 40 I was burned out from instancing, so I was just questing. I have started playing her again and tanking with the ret spec was easy enough.

    Armory link (but it's not that interesting: full heirlooms, crafted and PvP gear)

    At level 42 I would have access to Holy Shield. Is that enough to make up for Seal of Command and the other stuff in Ret?

    Grobian on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Grobian wrote: »
    At which level should I start speccing prot to tank dungeons? When I leveled my paladin to 40 I was burned out from instancing, so I was just questing. I have started playing her again and tanking with the ret spec was easy enough.

    Armory link (but it's not that interesting: full heirlooms, crafted and PvP gear)

    At level 42 I would have access to Holy Shield. Is that enough to make up for Seal of Command and the other stuff in Ret?

    Honestly, you can't learn how to tank with the rotation you'll use at 80 until level 75 anyway, so there's no reason not to just tank as Ret while levelling. You can't even get HotR until level 60. Just use seal of command and the glyph for it and you shouldn't have mana problems or problems holding agro.

    I levelled as Prot 1 to 70, but I did 70 to 80 when Wrath came out as Ret and I tanked every non heroic 5 man with the greatest of ease by just throwing on tank gear. If the healer was having an easy time I even tanked with my 2 hander instead of sword and board to make crusader strike and divine storm hit harder.

    Joshmvii on
  • The Big LevinskyThe Big Levinsky Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I too have recently discovered Prot PvP after having been die hard Ret. for years. What are some good Prot PvP specs for general BGs - not so much arenas?

    Still not entirely sure I prefer Prot. to Ret. though.

    The Big Levinsky on
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Speaking of Ret, I'm considering finally getting dual spec on my Paladin and doing up a Ret PvP spec as soon as I snag a Tyrannical Beheader. Any suggestions on a spec?

    Edit: Should be said I don't plan on doing Arena, if that's a factor at all.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Common variations of standard spec are typically 11/5/55 or 5/11/55 and picking up either Aura Mastery in Holy or Divine Sacrifice in Prot. For mostly solo play or 5mans in your ret spec I'd probably go for the Aura Mastery build.

    I personally run a 5/7/59 build for everything except Lich King so that I can get Vindication for maximizing personal dps and also get Divine Purpose since stun breaks are actually moderately useful on a few fights.

    Nambkab on
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Are you talking to me? If so, I'm not looking to PvE as Ret at all.

    Strictly BG-only. But, all I can find are Arena specs, and I'm not sure if there's a huge difference between a Ret specced for Arena and a Ret specced for normal BGing.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Oh wow, yeah I totally misread your post.

    My current secondary spec is my BG spec. I drop points from Swift Retribution to pick up Divine Sac and Imp Righteous Fury. I put one point in Vindication to have an extra debuff popping up on people, and only put one point in Righteous Vengeance as well for the purpose of having more debuffs up.

    Nambkab on
  • KarrmerKarrmer Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I don't like the downside to glyphing Avenger's shield.

    For PVP, it is a necessity. You push out ~8k Avengers Shields on 1300 resil targets with proper gear.

    Gearing for Prot PVP should be pure Ret PVP gear + a LOT Of 264/277 PVE gear. Aim for ~5800 AP unbuffed with 36% crit or so. Should have maybe 800 resil at most. Dream trinket is the Death's Choice, if you're human get that and Whispering Fanged Skull. Obviously go for a 2.6 speed 1hander + shield.

    Glyphs - Avengers Shield, Shield of the Righteous, Hammer of Justice. The only real debateable one is SotR imo.

    I wouldn't divine plea early because a good team will set up a good CC chain on you and drop it off. Let the first few CC's hit and then pop it when the DR's are up for a bit.

    In BG's you just run around face roll smashing hammer and junk, easy to drop 1 mill+ damage for the lols. In arenas you'll need to do a lot of cleansing allies, giving freedoms, HoSac, Divine Sac, BoP, Sacred Shield, etc etc. Lots of support while still cleaving for the luls.

    A quality comp to run (there aren't many) is either Resto Druid Marks Hunter Prot Pally, or Disc Priest Resto Druid Prot Pally.

    The end. Try it out, it is amazing and fun, and enormously better than ret in PVP. But if you really wanna succeed, go Holy ;)

    Karrmer on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Nambkab wrote: »
    Oh wow, yeah I totally misread your post.

    My current secondary spec is my BG spec. I drop points from Swift Retribution to pick up Divine Sac and Imp Righteous Fury. I put one point in Vindication to have an extra debuff popping up on people, and only put one point in Righteous Vengeance as well for the purpose of having more debuffs up.
    Would it be worth trying to finagle Imp HoJ into a battleground ret spec? Or do you end up with too much filler in Prot/losing too much from ret/holy? Like 3/17/51 or so?

    forty on
  • NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    forty wrote: »
    Would it be worth trying to finagle Imp HoJ into a battleground ret spec? Or do you end up with too much filler in Prot/losing too much from ret/holy? Like 3/17/51 or so?

    For me it's not worth it. Some people run a cleave Ret setup with no Imp Seals from holy and use seal of command for their pvp seal. Personally I've had better luck keeping the max burst from seal of righteousness with Imp Seals and just living with a longer cooldown on HoJ.

    Nambkab on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    This is my current build. This is my gear. I'm looking at respeccing into this; I have a prot pally in every raid, and I'm only really focused on 10-man content. We're going to be working on LK tonight, and I'm told that the loss of crit is made up for by DSac and higher survivability. Thoughts?

    Salvation122 on
  • NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    All our holy pallies (and myself when I go holy) pick up DSac. It's a phenomenal raid-wide cooldown especially since Holy Paladins also get Aura Mastery, another amazing raid-wide cooldown. You basically get a free extra tank cooldown for soul-reaper with DSac, and can use it or AM during infests for extra living from people if infest is causing problems for your group.

    Nambkab on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    This is my current build. This is my gear. I'm looking at respeccing into this; I have a prot pally in every raid, and I'm only really focused on 10-man content. We're going to be working on LK tonight, and I'm told that the loss of crit is made up for by DSac and higher survivability. Thoughts?

    Spec DSac and you'll never go back, ever. The only thing you'll miss is PoJ. You will have waaaay more than enough crit even without the crit you lose in ret. DSac/DG is absolutely amazing, and you'll use it every fight. More than once if you use a macro to cancel the DSac to get the 20% raid wall without even needing to bubble.

    Joshmvii on
  • SvenSven Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    So i have a level 50 Pally im thinking of respecing to Prot. this is what i was thinking of respecing too. Good? Yes? No?

    Sven on
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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Sven wrote: »
    So i have a level 50 Pally im thinking of respecing to Prot. this is what i was thinking of respecing too. Good? Yes? No?

    I asked for basically the same advice a while ago. I have learned that there is no use in speccing prot before 60. You will have severe mana problems, as all the prot mana stuff is only at higher levels. I now respecced to prot at 60 and it works barely. I mostly roll with Seal of Wisdom, because otherwise I have to drink a lot. BSanc only helps if I can pull enough mobs, but at some points in instances (mostly bosses) it's just not feasible.

    As to your spec: Ardent Defender and Divine Sacrifice are useless while leveling. You shouldn't need the added survivability of AD (bubble and loh are enough) and there just isn't enough group damage to justify DSac. Last night I only noticed that the DK had frost presence on after we were through the first half of the instance. Aggro is no problem at all.

    This is my spec. (63 right now)

    Grobian on
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Once I started rolling with Seal of Wisdom on, I had few mana problems on my Paladin and I could still hold aggro like a champ pre-60; once you do hit 60, Hammer of the Righteous means your mana bar will never, ever move. Glyphed HotRing everything with Wisdom + Consecrate meant I never lost aggro from 60 all the way until I got Divine Plea at 70-whatever and could go back to using a more fun seal, like Vengeance or Command.

    Keeping my Paladin's mana topped off at all times in dungeons for 30ish levels seriously outweighed the loss in damage (I still outdamaged everyone on trash and bosses until 77 or so anyway) and the unnoticeable loss in threat generation.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I'm a Ret specced Paladin, and it seems as though outside of them saying in a weird way that we are going to be hurt more easily I can't see much changing for me there. Although I am basically a level 62 new to the game so I'm guessing I don't know squat when it comes to what will be helpful where.

    Johannen on
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Johannen on
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Johannen wrote: »

    That spec has some issues. You skipped over two of the early important talents: Seal of Command and Improved Judgements). And while Divine Strength is pretty good, I'd want to have Divine Storm asap, so I would go full 51 points into ret, something like this. The points in Crusade could also go in Heart of the Crusader or you could push Swift Retribution back. Art of War is very nice to have for soloing and using the procs for Exorcism is also a damage boost.

    At 60 I would then get the 5 points in Divine Strength before filling out the holes in Ret or getting Seals of the Pure in Holy.

    Grobian on
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Grobian wrote: »
    Johannen wrote: »

    That spec has some issues. You skipped over two of the early important talents: Seal of Command and Improved Judgements). And while Divine Strength is pretty good, I'd want to have Divine Storm asap, so I would go full 51 points into ret, something like this. The points in Crusade could also go in Heart of the Crusader or you could push Swift Retribution back. Art of War is very nice to have for soloing and using the procs for Exorcism is also a damage boost.

    At 60 I would then get the 5 points in Divine Strength before filling out the holes in Ret or getting Seals of the Pure in Holy.

    So you think go with Benediction instead of Deflection and then just fill out Ret as best possible? I literally just went for anything that sounded as though it would increase my damage. I also find that I very rarely run out of mana, unless I am going hell for leather against a large group of opponents. I know I'll need to respec at some point, I just don't know when I'll do it.

    Johannen on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    This is what you want at level 60: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZZVfbtbIuhdIzsu

    Fill in 5/5 Divine Strength, then come back and fill in swift retribution and santified wrath. There is no need to fill in seals of the pure while levelling because you'll mostly be using seal of command, and vindication can get filled in later too because it's really just in the spec because there isn't anything better to do with the points.

    You don't want deflection, anticipation, or any of those defensive talents. They don't really help you anyway as Ret. You can heal yourself when needed and just cut through everything anyway. You will be in heaven when you realize how awesome divine storm is. =)

    Joshmvii on
  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Is it just me, or is the tanking tier 10 set bonus terrible?

    Samphis on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The 2pc is awesome

    The 4pc is terrible.

    Nobody on
  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I usually only tank heroics, but I've been off-tanking weeklies and the first wing of ICC. I think I'll just stick with tier 9 for tanking. I've got all my frost upgrades on my DPS (main) spec.

    Samphis on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    2pc is awesome for heroics too. Bonus damage to Hammer of the Righteous is not a bad thing at all when everything is an AoE pull, and I doubt you are using Divine Protection enough to justify the shorter cooldown.

    Nobody on
  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Oh wait. Hammer of the Righteous. I thought it was the kill shot hammer attack. Nevermind!

    Samphis on
  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ok pally thread. I'm stuck. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Smolderthorn&cn=Dohaeris

    I have no idea what to do now, aside from try and get into pug ToCs on my server. GS (4900) is too low for ICC people tell me (Which i'm fairly sure is bullshit) but I can't seem to get into anything else to get gear!

    SniperGuy on
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