Combining this thread, if advances in bio engineering and rampant corporatization of the word mean that some day I can have sunglasses that pop out of my head then sign me the fuck up.
This entire thread has got me thinking about BioShock.
Not so much the part about rampant genetic modification destroying its society, more about the fact that those mother fuckers could turn invisible, just by taking pictures of teleporting schizophrenics.
That's what I want science to do for me... Minus the teleporting schizophrenic of course.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Capitalism is the popular system now because revenue is perceived as being a tool to achieve a societal goal. Across many cultures, that goal is "growth."
Yet, no one can really articulate why "growth" is good, especially when that growth only seems to widen the gap between the rich and the poor.
That said, a corporation generating revenue to invest in an economy of goods and services aids in providing better goods and services (by better I mean large-scale, not necessarily better quality). Or, that's the ideal. Rather than a small business struggling for capital and investment, a corporation gathers joint capital and investment from multiple sources and is able to put out advanced goods and services. How they invest is dictated by the wants of the shareholders in that corporation.
A corporation in a CAPITALIST system, then, means the following
- shareholders are concerned with growth and revenue, so the corporation works towards those ends
- competition is good
- competition in the marketplace means products either end up CHEAPER or of better QUALITY versus their opponents
And because cost-cutting is the favored kneejerk reaction here, the costs that get cut are the ones that make a company environmentally sustainable or morally responsible. Ergo, it is not a corporation's fault in its strictest and purest form or intention... it is what drives that corporation that is at fault.
You're not going to blame a hammer for hammering the nail, you're going to blame the dude using the hammer for hammering the nail.
Yeah - and the reasons that this has worked so well is because for a long time 'growth' was synonymous with 'power', and the system could expand and grow as long as it could find and adapt itself to new resources.
But when you run into the limits of your resources, what happens to a system that requires perpetual growth to sustain itself? Who do we take power and resources away from now that there aren't any unclaimed resources left?
It seems like we're running into that limit wall right now.
shank seriously if you care so much about these people maybe you should send them your money instead of buying hundred dollar shirts
the difference between buying clothing and joking about the slaughter of human beings is, I would say, substantial
I'm not claiming to be a paragon of justice, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't take steps towards moral propriety where we can
besides, the argument that I can't point out despicable behavior where I see it on the basis of my own unfortunate inaction doesn't hold a lot of water
also, for what it's worth, I do give and work where I can, and intend to do more and more in my future
you don't give and work where you can, you give and work where you want. as long as you're buying hundred dollar workshirts you're not giving anywhere NEAR your potential
let's not bullshit each other here
your apathy is much more damaging than mine for two reasons:
1. you have much more money than I do and thus are in a position to do a lot more
2. you don't even realize you're apathetic and thus are less likely to change
honestly I bet getting all riled at me right now will probably have a NEGATIVE impact on the "giving and working" you do, since you probably feel like you're doing your part right now
None of this is functionally relevant. Not giving near my potential is still inestimably different from actively & ironically marginalizing the plight of other human beings. First of all, the nature of the authorial figure has no bearing on the function of the signifiers (hi, Foucalt/Derrida), and second of all, even were it to be accepted that I was apathetic, apathy is a big jump away from apparent derision. It sounds to me like you legitimately believe that one either (A) must be perfectly virtuous and entirely without sin or (B) is not allowed to be entirely astonished at reprehensible and disgusting behavior in another, which is an awfully black and white worldview to have.
Charles Kinbote on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Yeah - and the reasons that this has worked so well is because for a long time 'growth' was synonymous with 'power', and the system could expand and grow as long as it could find and adapt itself to new resources.
But when you run into the limits of your resources, what happens to a system that requires perpetual growth to sustain itself? Who do we take power and resources away from now that there aren't any unclaimed resources left?
It seems like we're running into that limit wall right now.
Yup! The question now is that things will change; they have to! How they will change is another story, because every time there's been a major shift in the predominant "ideal" systems of the world, it's always been a pretty big dramafest.
I would imagine BRIC will have a lot to do with how the systems change, particularly because they are only JUST coming to the point where they are benefitting from the capitalist system instead of being on the otherside of the unbalanced see-saw.
I just got back from my first semester of college my professors opened my eyes
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
The rationale behind BRIC coming onto the world stage is because they were previously countries who saw nothing of the economic boom. That is, they were on the poor side of that widening rich-poor gap that capitalism causes.
Now that they are finally gaining some benefit from it, they're not going to stop. Their mentality is "it's OUR turn now, and why shouldn't it be when much of what everyone ELSE (i.e., developed nations) has now was built on our backs and shoulders?"
So really, how are you going to convince BRIC that they shouldn't or can't have what these other developed countries already have? You can't, not really.
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
One thing I never really got about BRIC - all four countries are so rife with corruption that it seems they'll all need some sort of revolutions before the people see any kind of benefit of their country's ascending social power.
Most likely it will be a bloody revolution, since those in power are pretty firmly entrenched and don't even make the pretense of acting outside their own self-interests.
Do you think any of the BRIC nations could ever actually become a power on center stage and a force for social stage, given how some of the biggest economic players there are still very much invested in western-style Captialism? Am I just looking through this with my western-centric viewpoint and missing the obvious?
Do you think any of the BRIC nations could ever actually become a power on center stage and a force for social stage, given how some of the biggest economic players there are still very much invested in western-style Captialism?
In this case you would have to account for each individual BRIC nation's political standing, culture, and history.. That is, how are the first two changing with the upsurge in capitalist thought? In the case of the third, where HAS the country been in the past that worked or did not work for them?
The honest answer here is I have no friggin' idea.
I bet girls are cheaper if you institute a very strict "One abortion and that's it, no exceptions" policy
hey shank, look what can I do
you think it's not okay to make light of human death when, debateably, that's exactly what abortion is! (I don't think so, but there are plenty of people who would argue until they're blue in the face that that's what it is)
not to mention the emotional and mental turmoil women go through because of such a procedure
yep, let's joke about it! it's hilarious! marginalize their pain and all that jazz!
to try and lambaste skull man for a type of joke that we've all made a million times is pretty ridiculous, and it's even more ludicrous to act like you've never done it
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
China's major problem with corruption is at a provincial level more than it is at a central government level.
Beijing is relatively okay... but the smaller local governments are not. The further west you go, the worse it is. There's a myriad of reasons for it aside from physical distance, and addressing them is going to be a pretty hefty undertaking.
China's major problem with corruption is at a provincial level more than it is at a central government level.
Beijing is relatively okay... but the smaller local governments are not. The further west you go, the worse it is. There's a myriad of reasons for it aside from physical distance, and addressing them is going to be a pretty hefty undertaking.
but it's going to be a cake walk compared to India
One thing I never really got about BRIC - all four countries are so rife with corruption that it seems they'll all need some sort of revolutions before the people see any kind of benefit of their country's ascending social power.
Most likely it will be a bloody revolution, since those in power are pretty firmly entrenched and don't even make the pretense of acting outside their own self-interests.
Do you think any of the BRIC nations could ever actually become a power on center stage and a force for social stage, given how some of the biggest economic players there are still very much invested in western-style Captialism? Am I just looking through this with my western-centric viewpoint and missing the obvious?
ehhhhhhhhhhh, I can't genuinely account for the IRC part, but Brazil is doing REALLY well recently w/r/t corruption. Luis Silva is a really good man.
I thought Brazil was knee deep in unrest because of the huge influence foreign interests and the drug trafficking industry has over the military/police/politics.
China's major problem with corruption is at a provincial level more than it is at a central government level.
Beijing is relatively okay... but the smaller local governments are not. The further west you go, the worse it is. There's a myriad of reasons for it aside from physical distance, and addressing them is going to be a pretty hefty undertaking.
but it's going to be a cake walk compared to India
China's major problem with corruption is at a provincial level more than it is at a central government level.
Beijing is relatively okay... but the smaller local governments are not. The further west you go, the worse it is. There's a myriad of reasons for it aside from physical distance, and addressing them is going to be a pretty hefty undertaking.
Another problem is China targeting dissident groups abroad and all that state sanctioned hacker jazz.
China's major problem with corruption is at a provincial level more than it is at a central government level.
Beijing is relatively okay... but the smaller local governments are not. The further west you go, the worse it is. There's a myriad of reasons for it aside from physical distance, and addressing them is going to be a pretty hefty undertaking.
Another problem is China targeting dissident groups abroad and all that state sanctioned hacker jazz.
totally not going to go into this in too much depth
but I will say this
given what capitalism is and given how Chinese culture is, information control was a logical (if not GOOD) result of China's rapid modernization
Is it right for passengers to be searched for pornography?
No, it is an invasion of privacy Yes, it is necessary to protect our borders
Indifferent
If Debby Does Dallas makes it into the country the terrorists have won
Well look, I can understand the rule on importation of pornography into australia.
The idea is to stop peadophilia, beastality and all that, I can get behind that, :winky:
But who the fuck is going to say they have illegal pornography on their person? It just means they're going to go through everyone's baggage that ihas perfectly legal porn on them.
This is why everyone lies to get past Australian Customs, because they are stupidly strict.
Is it right for passengers to be searched for pornography?
No, it is an invasion of privacy Yes, it is necessary to protect our borders
Indifferent
If Debby Does Dallas makes it into the country the terrorists have won
Well look, I can understand the rule on importation of pornography into australia.
The idea is to stop peadophilia, beastality and all that, I can get behind that, :winky:
But who the fuck is going to say they have illegal pornography on their person? It just means they're going to go through everyone's baggage that ihas perfectly legal porn on them.
This is why everyone lies to get past Australian Customs, because they are stupidly strict.
Does this give them the right to go through somebody's PC?
I could see this getting into trouble if they go through your laptop looking for photos/videos, or even cookies.
I bet girls are cheaper if you institute a very strict "One abortion and that's it, no exceptions" policy
hey shank, look what can I do
you think it's not okay to make light of human death when, debateably, that's exactly what abortion is! (I don't think so, but there are plenty of people who would argue until they're blue in the face that that's what it is)
not to mention the emotional and mental turmoil women go through because of such a procedure
yep, let's joke about it! it's hilarious! marginalize their pain and all that jazz!
to try and lambaste skull man for a type of joke that we've all made a million times is pretty ridiculous, and it's even more ludicrous to act like you've never done it
I'm not claiming I've been perfect! In fact, I still, today (or a month and a half ago), make comments that I'm not proud of; the sorts of comments that I didn't care much about one way or the other a year ago today. Thank you for pointing that out to me; I'm not proud of it, I don't condone it, and I'll make a greater effort to abstain in the future.
I cannot, unfortunately, become the sort of person I'd like to be overnight; however, I'm doing my best to get there, and although I may falter (and, although I'm ashamed to admit it, may snap if I get called out on faltering if I'm in a bad mood), the fact that I can see something that I've said like that and see that it's objectionable and inappropriate gives me hope that I might be able to be someone that I'm wholly proud of someday in the not-too-distant-future.
Charles Kinbote on
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
Viv that sounds hell of divisive. Could you reiterate?
I don't mean to get touchy...freedom of information is the biggest issue I'm truly passionate about, is all.
I really, really do not know how to explain it.
Take what you know of Chinese culture. Defensive, exploratory but not invasive, preventive over reactive, deeply respectful of roles and authority, unquestioning, minding one's own business, language that requires memorization and recitation to learn, harmony, stability.
Take what you know of recent Chinese history. Country got torn apart by foreigners the instant they let them in for the better part of a century, country got locked in a massive power struggle from 1911 on, Japanese invasion, CCP in power, GLF, Cultural Revolution, Gang of Four, Deng Xiaoping... all the way up to now.
That "now," which is where China stopped trying to DENY everything Western and instead try to learn from them and be "like" them. That is, they adopted a capitalist economic system but maintain a communist power structure (not strictly communist, as many know, but a Chinese interpretation of communist, which itself has even changed since Mao's little red book).
China, an old country that saw its heyday long before many of today's superpowers came into their own, is losing its cultural identity and tradition to the spread of capitalism. People want to "live" like the developed western nations, they want all their troubles to cease. They want stability and harmony after two centuries of not having ANY of it.
In any society, there will be those with opinions that differ to that of the government. The expression of these opinions grows much more bold with the added anonymity you have online. Dissidence and the spread of these views (which are, note, widely western) basically means that controling the volume of that dissidence is the best way to control the dissidence itself (remember: an aspect of Chinese culture is the PREVENTION of problems rather than the RESOLVING of them).
That's just one example. There are many others. None of them JUSTIFY what China has done in terms of information control, but what I'm trying to say here is that, for THEM, it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense to you, too bad, they don't care because you're not one of THEM. And believe it or not, the majority of people in China don't see a major issue with this because the sites being blocked are English ones. Chinese versions of many of these services exist, and they exist within the bounds of what the government deems appropriate. So what if Chinese Facebook doesn't allow discussion groups? The majority of the Chinese public (again, given the cultural notes above) don't really CARE enough to want to discuss it.
Yes, there are politically minded people in China, but your average Joe doesn't really care in that case. The life they have now is good and it is better than what their parents and grandparents described to them, so why bitch?
Is it right for passengers to be searched for pornography?
No, it is an invasion of privacy Yes, it is necessary to protect our borders
Indifferent
If Debby Does Dallas makes it into the country the terrorists have won
Well look, I can understand the rule on importation of pornography into australia.
The idea is to stop peadophilia, beastality and all that, I can get behind that, :winky:
But who the fuck is going to say they have illegal pornography on their person? It just means they're going to go through everyone's baggage that ihas perfectly legal porn on them.
This is why everyone lies to get past Australian Customs, because they are stupidly strict.
Does this give them the right to go through somebody's PC?
I could see this getting into trouble if they go through your laptop looking for photos/videos, or even cookies.
Maybe! It seems like a pretty vague rule which all most annoying about it.
The thing about Australian customs are they are stupidly strict.
You need to declare that you have timber on you. YOu will be allowed to bring it into the country if there is no bark on it. That's fine.
But if you declare it it will add probably an extra hour/45 minutes onto your processing time.
I bet girls are cheaper if you institute a very strict "One abortion and that's it, no exceptions" policy
hey shank, look what can I do
you think it's not okay to make light of human death when, debateably, that's exactly what abortion is! (I don't think so, but there are plenty of people who would argue until they're blue in the face that that's what it is)
not to mention the emotional and mental turmoil women go through because of such a procedure
yep, let's joke about it! it's hilarious! marginalize their pain and all that jazz!
to try and lambaste skull man for a type of joke that we've all made a million times is pretty ridiculous, and it's even more ludicrous to act like you've never done it
I'm not claiming I've been perfect! In fact, I still, today (or a month and a half ago), make comments that I'm not proud of; the sorts of comments that I didn't care much about one way or the other a year ago today. Thank you for pointing that out to me; I'm not proud of it, I don't condone it, and I'll make a greater effort to abstain in the future.
I cannot, unfortunately, become the sort of person I'd like to be overnight; however, I'm doing my best to get there, and although I may falter (and, although I'm ashamed to admit it, may snap if I get called out on faltering if I'm in a bad mood), the fact that I can see something that I've said like that and see that it's objectionable and inappropriate gives me hope that I might be able to be someone that I'm wholly proud of someday in the not-too-distant-future.
That's pretty cool and all, but in the meantime you make yourself look like a horse's ass when you take a self-righteous dump in someone else's throat for doing something you yourself are struggling not to do.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
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Not so much the part about rampant genetic modification destroying its society, more about the fact that those mother fuckers could turn invisible, just by taking pictures of teleporting schizophrenics.
That's what I want science to do for me... Minus the teleporting schizophrenic of course.
Yeah - and the reasons that this has worked so well is because for a long time 'growth' was synonymous with 'power', and the system could expand and grow as long as it could find and adapt itself to new resources.
But when you run into the limits of your resources, what happens to a system that requires perpetual growth to sustain itself? Who do we take power and resources away from now that there aren't any unclaimed resources left?
It seems like we're running into that limit wall right now.
I'm not angry per se, just spiteful
I'm at least going to bed from this thread
None of this is functionally relevant. Not giving near my potential is still inestimably different from actively & ironically marginalizing the plight of other human beings. First of all, the nature of the authorial figure has no bearing on the function of the signifiers (hi, Foucalt/Derrida), and second of all, even were it to be accepted that I was apathetic, apathy is a big jump away from apparent derision. It sounds to me like you legitimately believe that one either (A) must be perfectly virtuous and entirely without sin or (B) is not allowed to be entirely astonished at reprehensible and disgusting behavior in another, which is an awfully black and white worldview to have.
Make sure CD tucks you in and kisses you goodnight.
Yup! The question now is that things will change; they have to! How they will change is another story, because every time there's been a major shift in the predominant "ideal" systems of the world, it's always been a pretty big dramafest.
I would imagine BRIC will have a lot to do with how the systems change, particularly because they are only JUST coming to the point where they are benefitting from the capitalist system instead of being on the otherside of the unbalanced see-saw.
...I'm going to bed.
Now that they are finally gaining some benefit from it, they're not going to stop. Their mentality is "it's OUR turn now, and why shouldn't it be when much of what everyone ELSE (i.e., developed nations) has now was built on our backs and shoulders?"
So really, how are you going to convince BRIC that they shouldn't or can't have what these other developed countries already have? You can't, not really.
Satans..... hints.....
Most likely it will be a bloody revolution, since those in power are pretty firmly entrenched and don't even make the pretense of acting outside their own self-interests.
Do you think any of the BRIC nations could ever actually become a power on center stage and a force for social stage, given how some of the biggest economic players there are still very much invested in western-style Captialism? Am I just looking through this with my western-centric viewpoint and missing the obvious?
The honest answer here is I have no friggin' idea.
hey shank, look what can I do
you think it's not okay to make light of human death when, debateably, that's exactly what abortion is! (I don't think so, but there are plenty of people who would argue until they're blue in the face that that's what it is)
not to mention the emotional and mental turmoil women go through because of such a procedure
yep, let's joke about it! it's hilarious! marginalize their pain and all that jazz!
to try and lambaste skull man for a type of joke that we've all made a million times is pretty ridiculous, and it's even more ludicrous to act like you've never done it
Beijing is relatively okay... but the smaller local governments are not. The further west you go, the worse it is. There's a myriad of reasons for it aside from physical distance, and addressing them is going to be a pretty hefty undertaking.
but it's going to be a cake walk compared to India
I thought Brazil was knee deep in unrest because of the huge influence foreign interests and the drug trafficking industry has over the military/police/politics.
I am putting this in here.
Travellers red-faced over new customs porn rule
Satans..... hints.....
word
Another problem is China targeting dissident groups abroad and all that state sanctioned hacker jazz.
If Debby Does Dallas makes it into the country the terrorists have won
totally not going to go into this in too much depth
but I will say this
given what capitalism is and given how Chinese culture is, information control was a logical (if not GOOD) result of China's rapid modernization
I don't mean to get touchy...freedom of information is the biggest issue I'm truly passionate about, is all.
Previous account
Well look, I can understand the rule on importation of pornography into australia.
The idea is to stop peadophilia, beastality and all that, I can get behind that, :winky:
But who the fuck is going to say they have illegal pornography on their person? It just means they're going to go through everyone's baggage that ihas perfectly legal porn on them.
This is why everyone lies to get past Australian Customs, because they are stupidly strict.
Satans..... hints.....
Does this give them the right to go through somebody's PC?
I could see this getting into trouble if they go through your laptop looking for photos/videos, or even cookies.
I'm not claiming I've been perfect! In fact, I still, today (or a month and a half ago), make comments that I'm not proud of; the sorts of comments that I didn't care much about one way or the other a year ago today. Thank you for pointing that out to me; I'm not proud of it, I don't condone it, and I'll make a greater effort to abstain in the future.
I cannot, unfortunately, become the sort of person I'd like to be overnight; however, I'm doing my best to get there, and although I may falter (and, although I'm ashamed to admit it, may snap if I get called out on faltering if I'm in a bad mood), the fact that I can see something that I've said like that and see that it's objectionable and inappropriate gives me hope that I might be able to be someone that I'm wholly proud of someday in the not-too-distant-future.
Take what you know of Chinese culture. Defensive, exploratory but not invasive, preventive over reactive, deeply respectful of roles and authority, unquestioning, minding one's own business, language that requires memorization and recitation to learn, harmony, stability.
Take what you know of recent Chinese history. Country got torn apart by foreigners the instant they let them in for the better part of a century, country got locked in a massive power struggle from 1911 on, Japanese invasion, CCP in power, GLF, Cultural Revolution, Gang of Four, Deng Xiaoping... all the way up to now.
That "now," which is where China stopped trying to DENY everything Western and instead try to learn from them and be "like" them. That is, they adopted a capitalist economic system but maintain a communist power structure (not strictly communist, as many know, but a Chinese interpretation of communist, which itself has even changed since Mao's little red book).
China, an old country that saw its heyday long before many of today's superpowers came into their own, is losing its cultural identity and tradition to the spread of capitalism. People want to "live" like the developed western nations, they want all their troubles to cease. They want stability and harmony after two centuries of not having ANY of it.
In any society, there will be those with opinions that differ to that of the government. The expression of these opinions grows much more bold with the added anonymity you have online. Dissidence and the spread of these views (which are, note, widely western) basically means that controling the volume of that dissidence is the best way to control the dissidence itself (remember: an aspect of Chinese culture is the PREVENTION of problems rather than the RESOLVING of them).
That's just one example. There are many others. None of them JUSTIFY what China has done in terms of information control, but what I'm trying to say here is that, for THEM, it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense to you, too bad, they don't care because you're not one of THEM. And believe it or not, the majority of people in China don't see a major issue with this because the sites being blocked are English ones. Chinese versions of many of these services exist, and they exist within the bounds of what the government deems appropriate. So what if Chinese Facebook doesn't allow discussion groups? The majority of the Chinese public (again, given the cultural notes above) don't really CARE enough to want to discuss it.
Yes, there are politically minded people in China, but your average Joe doesn't really care in that case. The life they have now is good and it is better than what their parents and grandparents described to them, so why bitch?
Maybe! It seems like a pretty vague rule which all most annoying about it.
The thing about Australian customs are they are stupidly strict.
You need to declare that you have timber on you. YOu will be allowed to bring it into the country if there is no bark on it. That's fine.
But if you declare it it will add probably an extra hour/45 minutes onto your processing time.
Satans..... hints.....