[WoW] Warlocks: We wear cloth.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    jeepguy wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    jeepguy wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Gnutson wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Gnutson wrote: »
    I never want to waste a cooldown while in meta. Which includes charging or immolate aura.

    If there is an opportunity to move between cooldowns (after a corruption or curse global for example) I will, but you'll get so much more bang for you buck casting.

    Also want to make sure you lifetap (if glyphed for it) right before you pop meta do you won't need to during.

    imo anyway.

    Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I was thinking using the GCDs to charge and immolation aura wouldn't be worth it, but I wanted to get input from somebody with experience. And thanks for the tip about lifetap glyph. I am a lifetapping fool on my lock. The last time I play him I pretty much just hit rank 1 lifetap about every 5 seconds in between combats to keep my glyph up and to keep a full stack of my Illustration of the Dragon Soul buff, and I never let the buff drop in combat.

    Try using Rank 8 (iirc that is the highest) it doesn't take near the life it used to.

    Oh, I always use the max rank for life tapping in combat or when I actually need mana, I just use rank 1 to build/keep up the 10 stacks of my IotDS trinket in between fights. I try to annoy the healer as little as possible with my tapping. =)

    At higher levels keeping locks topped off between fights isn't a problem that even approaches annoying. At lower levels though, OH MY GOD there is nothing worse than the locks who tap to no health right before every pull. I've seen healers in lower level instances curse out warlocks and drop after a few pulls of that. Please don't be that guy.

    Being a main tank means having situational awareness and knowing what's going on at all times. I don't ever tap myself to very low health when it's going to put any strain on the healer. I'm always aware of how much mana the healer has, how much mana I need for the next pull, etc.

    You know I never really thought you'd do that for a moment. For that matter, I doubt anyone reading this thread does it (or maybe even ever did do it). But that doesn't stop me from eyeing every warlock with suspicion, because the fact is that so many warlocks do it.

    Yeah, most Warlocks I have encountered in my day just love to lifetap during boss fights right when AoE damage happens, and start shooting seeds of corruption before the tank has even body pulled the whole group. :mrgreen:

    Joshmvii on
  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Man, life tapping while the boss AOE's is the best time to, that way you actually get healed back up.

    Jutranjo on
  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I lifetap anytime I need mana. If I need health after that I have healthstone, healing port, or death coil to give me a little bump in health. But anymore in raids I there's so much goddamned mana being thrown at me, be it BoW or Mana Spring or replen I usually don't have to lifetap.

    EWom on
    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I have seen a few affliction warlocks without improved life tap and dark pact?

    Brainleech on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Without...either? o_O

    But...affliction...tears through mana so fast. :(

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    End wrote: »
    Without...either? o_O

    But...affliction...tears through mana so fast. :(

    It does but with life tap, dark pact and mana regen gear I rarely am out of it

    Brainleech on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    And for proof I just did the weekly with one!
    WoWScrnShot_052510_013444.jpg

    Brainleech on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Unless something changed in the past couple months, Aff locks don't take Dark Pact because it sucks balls. There are a couple fights in the game where it could put undue stress on the healers to Life Tap at certain times, but it still didn't make Dark Pact worth taking. As for imp lifetap, I can't fathom why an aff lock wouldn't take it. I mean, locks can get some really good mileage out of the low tier talents in the other trees, but still, imp lifetap is just so useful.

    Joshmvii on
  • Elessar ElfstoneElessar Elfstone Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Ya I switched to DP a couple months ago and instantly regretted switching. I've been to lazy / haven't been raiding enough to bother switching back to ILT. But I shall soon.

    Elessar Elfstone on
    Tobias: Or it could be your colon. I'd want to get in there and find some answers.

    Forsake, Warlock of Stonemaul
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, if they made dark pact give considerably more mana than a life tap, then maybe Aff locks would be inclined to take it, but since it's worse, the only benefit it offers is that you don't take damage from doing it, which is trivial 99% of the time anyway.

    Joshmvii on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It was a point a a backup spell I needed to get for Haunt. It's not that great of a spell with the imp but with the felhound it's worth it

    Brainleech on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    If you mean it's worth it with the Felhound because he gets mana back when he attacks, that still doesn't make it worth it. The point is as long as Dark Pact gives less mana back than a Life Tap, you are wasting the potential of the GCD you use to hit the button, because Life Tap would've given you more mana back.

    Edit: I should say for PvE. I don't really PvP, so I forget to consider the use of a talent in that context sometimes.

    Joshmvii on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Hmmmmm......maybe the rest of the points were in demo? Still, I'd probably still spec into improved life tap (or DP) for a pvp affliction spec.

    So yeah, still weird.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So this Harvest Soul channeled spell thing. I was under the impression that soul shards were just going to come back for being out of combat, not that you'd have to stop and channel for a few seconds. Seems like the kind of thing that will get annoying after a while.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Is that a recent alpha change or something?

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    forty wrote: »
    So this Harvest Soul channeled spell thing. I was under the impression that soul shards were just going to come back for being out of combat, not that you'd have to stop and channel for a few seconds. Seems like the kind of thing that will get annoying after a while.

    Harvest Soul? I havn't seen anything about this, link?

    Wassermelone on
  • GnutsonGnutson Registered User
    edited May 2010
    End wrote: »
    Is that a recent alpha change or something?

    First I heard of this as well. Can't check any sites from work though.

    Gnutson on
    Erai - Operative <--Imperial Double Agent--> Sniper - Eari
    SW:Tor - Tao - Kryatt Dragon Server
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Oh, maybe it is. I just read it as a quote somewhere else and thought it was a blue post.

    forty on
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  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    There was a bug somewhere that let someone view the alpha forums, they screencapped a bunch of posts of people discussing changes. As I recall, the big ones for warlocks were:

    -Soul Shards regenerate with a channeled spell, affected by haste, 30s cooldown, must be out of combat.
    -Demon's Soul costs a Soul Shard, so PvE warlocks are never going to use Soul Burn anyway.
    -Demonology gets a spell that does single-target damage and then leaves a burning patch of ground under whoever it hits.
    -Destruction gets a Bane that causes 10% of the damage they do to also be done to the Baned target.

    I needed a gnome to post. on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Gnutson wrote: »
    Can't check any sites from work though.
    Me neither, but Google cache to the rescue!
    Soul Harvest (channeled, 30s cd): You seek outnearby wandering souls, gaining 1 soul shard and regenerates 5% of your health every 3 sec for 7.15s [ed: modified by my haste]. Cannot be cast while in combat.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The last info I saw was from the blue post and said you'd have 3 shards that would come back out of combat. There wasn't any mention of having to do something special. I think they mentioned they might make drain soul able to bring them back mid fight, but I kind of hope they don't. I like the idea of 3 soul burns available per fight and not having to worry about whether or not it would be better to stand there losing DPS to bring the shards back mid fight. Hmm, just saw a supposed alpha leak mentioning the soul harvest thing.

    If you have to do that in between trash pulls in heroics that is going to be a major PITA, though I guess if they just let them regen on their own it might be imba since locks would be able to soul burn every pull without ever having to think about letting their shards regen.

    Joshmvii on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    The last info I saw was from the blue post and said you'd have 3 shards that would come back out of combat. There wasn't any mention of having to do something special.
    Same here, which is why the Soul Harvest news leaves me with a little bit of bad taste in my mouth.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    They had to put the chore back in soul shards, duh.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    -Demon's Soul costs a Soul Shard, so PvE warlocks are never going to use Soul Burn anyway.

    Nonsense. Demon's soul to power up, pop Meta, then soul burn for a couple instant cast soul fires, bam, dead heroic boss. =P Even raid bosses would have to live for ~6 minutes or longer to use 3 Demon's Souls, depending on the CD.

    Joshmvii on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Most raid bosses live at least 5 minutes, at least before they're trivial. So at most that would be one spare soul shard. And you'd probably want to save it for an instant pet resummon, just in case, rather than burn it on one slight DPS upgrade.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Right, but if the CD is 2 minutes, and if could be higher, the boss would have to live 6 minutes + the duration of Demon's Soul to make that the only thing PvE locks use shards for. And I haven't really raided much on my Lock since it's just an alt, but I don't think pets die much these days even if you just ignore them so I can't see needing to hold shards for that purpose in PvE.

    Plus, on my Lock I would most definitely be using Soul Burn to insta cast soul fires and shit on trash. All of this is just in response to the poster above who implied that Demon's Soul costing a shard will mean PvE locks will never use Soul Burn.

    Joshmvii on
  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    No more chore than Evocation or drinking.

    You guys are thinking its going to be slowing everyone down because not many people actually have to manage their mana now, but with them wanting to make mana matter again, this is our resource we are going to manage I guess.

    Wassermelone on
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Well, it depends on how much of a DPS boost it is. Obviously for shorter fights or trash it won't be an issue, but for raid bosses, if the gains from Demon's Soul far outweigh the gain from Soul Burn (which I strongly suspect they will), it will be a DPS loss to use Soul Burn. Pet died? Tough titties.

    If I'm recalling that leak correctly, Demon's Soul currently had a 1.4m cooldown, which is 1 minute 24 seconds if my grade-school math skills haven't failed me. Blood Queen is a fight just over five minutes, and you have enough time to pop Metamorphosis 3 times during the fight (which is a 2.1m cooldown), so pretty much any fight over five minutes (which seems to be the magic number Blizz is shooting for these days), Demon's Soul all the way.

    I needed a gnome to post. on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    And I haven't really raided much on my Lock since it's just an alt, but I don't think pets die much these days even if you just ignore them so I can't see needing to hold shards for that purpose in PvE.
    They don't die much, but the fact that they sometimes can (or sometimes just despawn, like on, say, Sindragosa if you forget to go passive after she takes off) means that one extra Soulfire might not be worth the risk in DPS loss from having to resummon your pet the slow way. It'd probably be something you adjust over time depending on if it's a boss you've had kill your pets before or not.

    forty on
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  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    No more chore than Evocation or drinking.

    You guys are thinking its going to be slowing everyone down because not many people actually have to manage their mana now, but with them wanting to make mana matter again, this is our resource we are going to manage I guess.

    If healers didn't throw heals out like candy, I might worry a lot more about managing my health and mana, too. On the plus side, soul harvest gives some health back, although 5% per 3 seconds seems like a pidly amount to me.

    Overall though, I'm guessing soul shards won't be really something you bother with unless it's a boss fight. Balancing still feels like it could be out of whack for pvp though.
    Well, it depends on how much of a DPS boost it is. Obviously for shorter fights or trash it won't be an issue, but for raid bosses, if the gains from Demon's Soul far outweigh the gain from Soul Burn (which I strongly suspect they will), it will be a DPS loss to use Soul Burn. Pet died? Tough titties.

    You'll probably always use soul burn to resummon your pet if it dies.

    Consider not doing damage for up to 10 seconds.
    Considering having demon's soul for up to X seconds.

    Glancing around, it looks like demon soul is balanced around a 20% damage increase over..maybe 20 seconds? ...well, that falls short of the 50% damage increase you need for a 20 second demon's soul, assuming I'm not terrible at math.* Also, demo probably wouldn't use soul burn for pet summoning, if the faster cast summon still exists.

    Edit: Also, OBVIOUSLY, you're not going to use demon's soul without a demon. That's actually where the rub lies.

    * I am terrible at math, don't tell anyone.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • GnutsonGnutson Registered User
    edited May 2010
    They did say Fel Domination is going away as Soul Burn does the indentical job.

    And I can't see not saving a shard for an instant summon, especially as Demo, the demon's contribuition is just too big to loose. It makes Fel Domination a must have talent right now.

    Gnutson on
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  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, I don't know if master summoner is going away or not though. A six second summon is a lot less painful than a ten second summon.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • GnutsonGnutson Registered User
    edited June 2010
    As much as I love troll models. I still think I'm keeping Newt undead, it just seems to fit better.

    Anyone looking forward to troll/dwarf?

    Gnutson on
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  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I would consider making a Troll lock. I have a 48 lock sitting on Laughing Skull. He was nmy first ever character but I never finished leveling him. I think starting a new one from scratch would be fun.

    Mutilate on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    underdevelopment.jpg

    trolls can be warlocks?

    Brainleech on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I have a level 80 undead warlock. I've considered making him Blood Elf sometime down the line and had to stop to think when I saw this bit of news.

    While I like trolls and have several troll characters (DK, Shaman, Mage, Priest), and am looking at having a few more down the road (Druid, maybe Hunter or Rogue), I don't know if I want another clothie Troll.

    Nobody on
  • GnutsonGnutson Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Officially unoficial?

    In totally unrelated news, our Guild Leader who is a lock, who does arena quite frequently tanked the shadow prince for us Sunday night.. With his 51k buffed health.. So insane, I honestly had no clue it could get that high.

    Gnutson on
    Erai - Operative <--Imperial Double Agent--> Sniper - Eari
    SW:Tor - Tao - Kryatt Dragon Server
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Counting the ICC 20% buff and full raid buffs, that sounds like the lock probably has about 30k unbuffed health, which in pvp gear doesn't sound that crazy to me. We have a lock who tanks that prince as well, because she's Demo and it's so easy with soul link.

    Joshmvii on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    No where are you getting the info that trolls can be warlocks?

    Brainleech on
  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Didn't someone post an alpha screen where it showed lock open under Troll? Maybe I am making this up.

    Mutilate on
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