I agree with tubes core point though: The game isn't finished and has numerous poor design decisions that set it back a lot.
Then again, that is pretty common with Obsidian.
They normally have excellent writing to make up for it. That's what I spent the entire game waiting for. A part of me genuinely believed they were going to produce a rabbit from their hat at the last minute.
It's like there's two Obsidians; The NWN2/Storm of Zehir Obsidian, and the KotOR 2/Mask of the Betrayer Obsidian.
Actually that would be about right as I think a different team did work on KotoR2 and Mask of the Betrayer compared with the original NWN2. They actually have quite a few people working on different projects.
It was delayed because Sega wasn't satisfied with the final product or something, I believe. Said it wasn't "RPG" enough and didn't test well in focus groups. Whatever that means.
Man, the comparisons to Deus Ex do not ease my mind. DX is my favorite game of all time, and a classic; comparing it to AP is probably not going to do the latter any favors. It's all well and good to pluck a particular review out, but...DX has a 90 on Metacritic with a 9.5 user score. What are the odds AP is going to match?
Anyway, I think Tube sounds too harsh and Caedere sounds too fawning. The averages sound more accurate.
I mean is the awkward skill system courtesy of Sega meddling? For all I know this would've been a bit more Mass Effectish if it hadn't got dragged back to be retuned
Which just leaves the question of how the hell did all those bugs and glitches manage to survive two editing passes
It was delayed because Sega wasn't satisfied with the final product or something, I believe. Said it wasn't "RPG" enough and didn't test well in focus groups. Whatever that means.
That leaked document was between Sega and Sony. Specifically the comments were from a Sony tester/testing group. Here's the exact wording:
Alpha Protocol
Michael Foster, product evaluator, said AP felt barely RPG. Initial level too challenging for players. “Mass Effect felt more RPG.”
Review notes sent to John Merlino a few weeks prior. After meeting Gerald mentioned AP is a high priority for his team.
Document was from August of 2009 so assumably the tester meant Mass Effect 1.
Man, the comparisons to Deus Ex do not ease my mind.
Rest easy. The only things this has in common with Deus Ex is lacklustre shooting and late 90s quality animation.
You really hate this game, huh? If I were to rate it out of ten, I'd give it a six probably. It's not a great game by any measure, and has clear issues, but if you're into the concept and story, then you may really enjoy it. Vampire Bloodlines is the best comparison I've seen.
Vampire Bloodlines is the best comparison I've seen.
You have
You have just made me very unhappy
Please don't jail me.
It was just another buggy game that people complained looked ugly and had sloppy gameplay. The people that liked the concept enough to look past the flaws loved it though, myself included. They're just not games with broad appeals.
Is anyone else playing the PC version? Does it randomly stutter for you? As far as I can tell it's related to mouse movement.
Also, you weren't kidding about the animation. Jesus christ, I'm sure this has been run into the ground, but the way guards' legs move seriously looks like Garry's Mod. I mean, I think it looks fine otherwise, but holy shit.
Cherrn on
All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
I agree with tubes core point though: The game isn't finished and has numerous poor design decisions that set it back a lot.
Then again, that is pretty common with Obsidian.
They normally have excellent writing to make up for it. That's what I spent the entire game waiting for. A part of me genuinely believed they were going to produce a rabbit from their hat at the last minute.
It's like there's two Obsidians; The NWN2/Storm of Zehir Obsidian, and the KotOR 2/Mask of the Betrayer Obsidian.
Actually that would be about right as I think a different team did work on KotoR2 and Mask of the Betrayer compared with the original NWN2. They actually have quite a few people working on different projects.
Looking at the credits of those games there's a fair amount of overlap and not just Design Team A vs Design Team B. It is under the spoiler since it long and boring to anyone not interested.
Executive Producer:
KOTOR2: Feargus Urquhart
NWN2: Darren L. Monahan
MOB:Feargus Urquhart
SOZ:Feargus Urquhart
Lead Designer:
KOTOR2:Chris Avellone
NWN2: J. E. Sawyer, Ferret Baudoin
MOB: Kevin D. Saunders
SOZ: Anthony Evans
Producer:
KOTOR2: Chris Parker
NWN2: Ryan Rucinski(Senior Producer)
MOB: Kevin D. Saunders
SOZ: Kevin D. Saunders
Designers of one title or another:
Kotor 2: Ferret Baudoin, Michael Chu, Anthony Evans, Scott Everts, John Morgan, Kevin D. Saunders, David Maldonado
NWN2: John Lee, Eric Fenstermaker, George Ziets, Jeff Husges, Constant Gaw, Anthony Evans, Annie Carlson, Kevin D. Saunders, Matt Deller, Matt MacLean, Michael Chu, Travis Stout
MOB:Chris Avellone, Eric Fenstermaker, Jeff Husges, Anthony Evans
SOZ: Annie Carlson, Bobby Null, Jeff Husges, Paul Streifel
Well, fuck me. I was really looking forward to this game. Guess I'll put it off for a bit, then.
It's not as bad as certain haters are making it out to be. It depends on your sensitivity to minor annoyances whether you'll like it or not, but I enjoyed it enough to beat it and start a new character.
It's kind of funny how the majority of people in this thread who have the game are really enjoying it, but the one or two people who don't like it and are being vocal seem to be listened to the most.
Clearly the answer for those who enjoy the game is to use large, bold fonts with rainbow colors!
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
Ignore him, ignore him completely because Im pretty sure he picked up Splinter cell: Conviction or something. I've just this minute finished it and I loved it, it boggles my mind how many other options there are to things I've done.
Technically its not flawless, sometimes you will be seen through objects, and knocking someone out a second after they see you tends to alert everyone in the area. But I never encountered any bugs that trapped me or any bosses and Ive played it fairly consistently since like friday.
Voice acting is good, characters are good, story is fun and it all came together at the end, all my hard work and researching helped me get a really good ending. Sadly I didn't see much of Sis but I don't think I had good enough standing with her group to get her to appear often. I only executed one person but I really should have executed another, I thought he was being reasonable, then the credits rolled.
I was somewhat saddened that your abilities don't change much by levelling up. You either get longer lasting or different scenario types of the particular power ups and there are a few areas where a stealth person is at a disadvantage. It feels really good though when the relationships you built up bear fruit and they pop into your missions as allies.
Heck is good, Scarlet is good, Mina is...eh, shes not great looking. I really like Heck, wish I'd met him earlier in the game.
Does anything ever come of that Gellato parlour?
The animations are at least better than Bethesda's Tube and they have a considerable budget and no pesky plot to worry about slowing down development.
Eat that.
EDIT: And people who know me know I am hard to please and will chew the shit out of games and films I dont like. I really enjoyed this though I'm scared to go back through it and get a sadder ending. Plus its damn long, much longer than I thought it would be.
No one, because I'm not trolling by even the vaguest definitions of the word.
You're being overly critical, and thats being polite. "Shower of shit" being the descriptive term. How'd you even make it to the end that fast if you disliked it so?
No one, because I'm not trolling by even the vaguest definitions of the word.
You're being overly critical, and thats being polite.
Not liking the game you like /= trolling. If someone not liking the game you like bothers you so much that you feel the need to accuse them of maliciously trying to annoy you I advise you to seek mental help. In your particular case I advise that anyway.
There's not liking it and then your aggresive diatribe against it. Hyperbole is applicable because the animation is not that bad, the graphics are not that bad and the characters are not flat.
If you were expecting Hitman 5 then I can understand your disappointment. There were some levels where I thought that it would take on that vein but then more choices came and I was content.
If someone not liking the game you like bothers you so much that you feel the need to accuse them of maliciously trying to annoy you I advise you to seek mental help.
I can assure you, as the actual person who holds my opinion, that I am not engaging in hyperbole. The animations are that bad. The characters are that flat. Move on with your life, because I have no further interest in dealing with you wildly accusing me of trolling and not actually holding the opinion that I hold. Grow up.
Hey guys and gals, just wanted to let *everyone* know that this coming week of June 1st to the 5th, you'll be able to buy the console version of Obsidian's Alpha Protocol from K-Mart for the low low discount price of $44.99! Yessir, just in case that 60 dollar price tag was a bit too daunting in the face of lackluster reviews, you'll be saving 15 whole dollars, which amounts to cutting the price by a whopping 25%. That is really cool for a game in its first week of release, I gotta say. Seems like a great opportunity for anyone who isn't overly critical.
Not uh, not too sure if I'll be getting it, but at least the game won't cost full price.
Hey guys and gals, just wanted to let *everyone* know that this coming week of June 1st to the 5th, you'll be able to buy the console version of Obsidian's Alpha Protocol from K-Mart for the low low discount price of $44.99! Yessir, just in case that 60 dollar price tag was a bit too daunting in the face of lackluster reviews, you'll be saving 15 whole dollars, which amounts to cutting the price by a whopping 25%. That is really cool for a game in its first week of release, I gotta say. Seems like a great opportunity for anyone who isn't overly critical.
Not uh, not too sure if I'll be getting it, but at least the game won't cost full price.
While I agree with you on some points Dove, I'll be damned if Mario Galaxy and New Super Mario Bros Wii were not incredibly fun.
You are totally right in this respect, I am perfectly open to the fact that those games are some of the most fun you can have with video games.
However the reason I go out of my way not to play these games is directly related to my issue, and that is because these games are fucking stupid (in both premise/story and gameplay mechanics), regardless of how fun they may be. It is a waste of my time because the product is meant to be intellectually bankrupt.
It was delayed because Sega wasn't satisfied with the final product or something, I believe. Said it wasn't "RPG" enough and didn't test well in focus groups. Whatever that means.
It's probably not a stretch to imagine what the complaints about this game were. Everytime the cutscenes end, and I am thrust back into the game where the enemy AI can hear me, through a brick wall, in the mountain floor below, I just think "Are you kidding me?"
It might be easier if this game was more methodical in its RPGness. Like if the guards had cones of awareness. At least then you could see that they could "see" you behind a low wall or something.
What really sucks, is that when the game works - it is pretty damn fun. It's when it doesn't work that you just sit there with your head in your hands wondering how the hell SEGA or Obsidian felt that this game was good to go to market.
At some point someone had to say "Look guys - we can not release this product in the state that it is in. Yes there is quite a bit of good here, but all we are going to be remembered for is the bad." And that is exactly what is happening. I don't know anything about game development so maybe they were at the point of no return and really just had to keep on trucking with the in-game resources they had.
I've been playing this and I love it. I am pretty critical of games too.
Tons of attention to detail. Immersion up the ass. Great writing (better than mass effect and red dead imo..for comparison's sake). Choices that matter. Bonuses for doing stuff that you didn't expect. Probably the only game like this I have played where the dialogue and branching plotlines don't feel stilted and odd. ME 2 did a good job with this, this game does it better.
The gameplay is serviceable, with definite balance issues. Glitchy, and iffy AI. Fun? Absolutely. Abilities and stuff are very Bioware-esque.
I really do think they did a solid job with the writing. The e-mails, especially, are often quite funny. A lot of the twists can be seen coming, but the espionage genre tends to have that issue. There's a lot to be appreciated about the way they've integrated the decisions that can alter the storyline, it seems a lot less jarring than in most games. If it were just wrapped in a more attractive package I could see it being adored.
I don't think being scared by mediocre reviews is the problem for most of us. The problem is that we know the game will be $30-40 in 2 months. Why bother now?
fake edit: I could be just speaking for myself, but that's my take on it.
I don't think being scared by mediocre reviews is the problem for most of us. The problem is that we know the game will be $30-40 in 2 months. Why bother now?
fake edit: I could be just speaking for myself, but that's my take on it.
I got the Amazon gift card from RDR and yeah, I can't justify spending it on this game when I can just wait.
Well I hope New Vegas does a little better then this game.
Not that I've played it, but the reviews aren't good and the Giant Bomb quicklook looked extremely janky.
At least New Vegas is using the Fallout 3 engine with very little modification graphics wise, so when people complain about animations they can just point at Bethesda.
Posts
Actually that would be about right as I think a different team did work on KotoR2 and Mask of the Betrayer compared with the original NWN2. They actually have quite a few people working on different projects.
Christ knows what it looked like before.
Anyway, I think Tube sounds too harsh and Caedere sounds too fawning. The averages sound more accurate.
I mean is the awkward skill system courtesy of Sega meddling? For all I know this would've been a bit more Mass Effectish if it hadn't got dragged back to be retuned
Which just leaves the question of how the hell did all those bugs and glitches manage to survive two editing passes
That leaked document was between Sega and Sony. Specifically the comments were from a Sony tester/testing group. Here's the exact wording:
Document was from August of 2009 so assumably the tester meant Mass Effect 1.
Rest easy. The only things this has in common with Deus Ex is lacklustre shooting and late 90s quality animation.
You really hate this game, huh? If I were to rate it out of ten, I'd give it a six probably. It's not a great game by any measure, and has clear issues, but if you're into the concept and story, then you may really enjoy it. Vampire Bloodlines is the best comparison I've seen.
360 games are patched quite frequently. You usually have to go online to find out what was patched though.
The real question is... would a patch conjured up by the geniuses over at Obsidian make any sort of noticeable difference?
You have
You have just made me very unhappy
Please don't jail me.
It was just another buggy game that people complained looked ugly and had sloppy gameplay. The people that liked the concept enough to look past the flaws loved it though, myself included. They're just not games with broad appeals.
Also, you weren't kidding about the animation. Jesus christ, I'm sure this has been run into the ground, but the way guards' legs move seriously looks like Garry's Mod. I mean, I think it looks fine otherwise, but holy shit.
Looking at the credits of those games there's a fair amount of overlap and not just Design Team A vs Design Team B. It is under the spoiler since it long and boring to anyone not interested.
Lead Designer:
Producer:
Designers of one title or another:
Kotor 2: Ferret Baudoin, Michael Chu, Anthony Evans, Scott Everts, John Morgan, Kevin D. Saunders, David Maldonado
NWN2: John Lee, Eric Fenstermaker, George Ziets, Jeff Husges, Constant Gaw, Anthony Evans, Annie Carlson, Kevin D. Saunders, Matt Deller, Matt MacLean, Michael Chu, Travis Stout
MOB:Chris Avellone, Eric Fenstermaker, Jeff Husges, Anthony Evans
SOZ: Annie Carlson, Bobby Null, Jeff Husges, Paul Streifel
It's not as bad as certain haters are making it out to be. It depends on your sensitivity to minor annoyances whether you'll like it or not, but I enjoyed it enough to beat it and start a new character.
Clearly the answer for those who enjoy the game is to use large, bold fonts with rainbow colors!
Ignore him, ignore him completely because Im pretty sure he picked up Splinter cell: Conviction or something. I've just this minute finished it and I loved it, it boggles my mind how many other options there are to things I've done.
Technically its not flawless, sometimes you will be seen through objects, and knocking someone out a second after they see you tends to alert everyone in the area. But I never encountered any bugs that trapped me or any bosses and Ive played it fairly consistently since like friday.
Voice acting is good, characters are good, story is fun and it all came together at the end, all my hard work and researching helped me get a really good ending. Sadly I didn't see much of Sis but I don't think I had good enough standing with her group to get her to appear often. I only executed one person but I really should have executed another, I thought he was being reasonable, then the credits rolled.
I was somewhat saddened that your abilities don't change much by levelling up. You either get longer lasting or different scenario types of the particular power ups and there are a few areas where a stealth person is at a disadvantage. It feels really good though when the relationships you built up bear fruit and they pop into your missions as allies.
Heck is good, Scarlet is good, Mina is...eh, shes not great looking. I really like Heck, wish I'd met him earlier in the game.
Does anything ever come of that Gellato parlour?
The animations are at least better than Bethesda's Tube and they have a considerable budget and no pesky plot to worry about slowing down development.
Eat that.
EDIT: And people who know me know I am hard to please and will chew the shit out of games and films I dont like. I really enjoyed this though I'm scared to go back through it and get a sadder ending. Plus its damn long, much longer than I thought it would be.
No one, because I'm not trolling by even the vaguest definitions of the word.
You're being overly critical, and thats being polite. "Shower of shit" being the descriptive term. How'd you even make it to the end that fast if you disliked it so?
Not liking the game you like /= trolling. If someone not liking the game you like bothers you so much that you feel the need to accuse them of maliciously trying to annoy you I advise you to seek mental help. In your particular case I advise that anyway.
If you were expecting Hitman 5 then I can understand your disappointment. There were some levels where I thought that it would take on that vein but then more choices came and I was content.
I can assure you, as the actual person who holds my opinion, that I am not engaging in hyperbole. The animations are that bad. The characters are that flat. Move on with your life, because I have no further interest in dealing with you wildly accusing me of trolling and not actually holding the opinion that I hold. Grow up.
Not uh, not too sure if I'll be getting it, but at least the game won't cost full price.
I await a sequel with a faint-blue hue on my balls.
Wouldn't mind items in my bases standing out more so I can inspect them.
What about a certain iteration in a series about a bald murderer for hire?
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Thanks, that makes my decision easier.
It's probably not a stretch to imagine what the complaints about this game were. Everytime the cutscenes end, and I am thrust back into the game where the enemy AI can hear me, through a brick wall, in the mountain floor below, I just think "Are you kidding me?"
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
At some point someone had to say "Look guys - we can not release this product in the state that it is in. Yes there is quite a bit of good here, but all we are going to be remembered for is the bad." And that is exactly what is happening. I don't know anything about game development so maybe they were at the point of no return and really just had to keep on trucking with the in-game resources they had.
Tons of attention to detail. Immersion up the ass. Great writing (better than mass effect and red dead imo..for comparison's sake). Choices that matter. Bonuses for doing stuff that you didn't expect. Probably the only game like this I have played where the dialogue and branching plotlines don't feel stilted and odd. ME 2 did a good job with this, this game does it better.
The gameplay is serviceable, with definite balance issues. Glitchy, and iffy AI. Fun? Absolutely. Abilities and stuff are very Bioware-esque.
It's also funny.
Don't be scared by the mediocre reviews.
XBL: Slimebucato
fake edit: I could be just speaking for myself, but that's my take on it.
Mission spoiler/question:
I got the Amazon gift card from RDR and yeah, I can't justify spending it on this game when I can just wait.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Not that I've played it, but the reviews aren't good and the Giant Bomb quicklook looked extremely janky.
At least New Vegas is using the Fallout 3 engine with very little modification graphics wise, so when people complain about animations they can just point at Bethesda.