I'm not particularly passionate about it, but I don't see any real reason to remove a perfecty healthy part of anyone's body. I'm uncircumcised and it's never been a detriment for me. My wife and I decided not to circumcise our son.
If you aren't Jewish or Arab, or whathaveyou, there's no reason to be passionate about it. There's no symbolic reason, and thus, no need to rationalize.
If you aren't Jewish or Arab, or whathaveyou, there's no reason to be passionate about it. There's no symbolic reason, and thus, no need to rationalize.
If you aren't Jewish or Arab, or whathaveyou, there's no reason to be passionate about it. There's no symbolic reason, and thus, no need to rationalize.
Please stop confusing Arab with Muslim. Thanks.
That said, circumcision was an Arab custom before it was a Muslim custom.
Do you realize that using retarded terms like barbaric just makes you look disingenuous and lacking in any real arguments.
If you're going to start criticising peoples arguments for using what you see as sensationalist language, don't you dare do shit like this. The double standard is baffling.
I view this the same as strapping down a newborn baby girl's legs and cutting off her clitoral hood and labia because an old book says it's necessary or everyone else is doing it. I'm sure it wouldn't impair her sexual functioning and may even reduce the incidence of vulval cancer, even though that accounts for less than 1% of cases. It would make cleaning easier too because there would be less folds, which women have much more of than men, to trap smegma. Of course, anaesthetic wouldn't be necessary because the baby's nervous system isn't "fully developed" but she wouldn't remember it anyways so it doesn't matter.
Well, then your view is based on false assumptions and you havent even read the last 2 pages.
I have this lingering feeling that most of the opposition is uncircumcised guys that felt slightly odd man out about their junk. It's the only way I can attribute such irrational passion, dudes are sensitive about their dicks.
Conversely, for some reason circumcised men feel the need to emphasize that — "I certainly don't have any problems with sex!" Nobody's ever accused you of being a eunuch, but objectively speaking, you are missing something. It's a very small piece, yes, but a piece of your penis is missing.
You know what? I'll say it. We're all dudes, our penises are pretty important to us. I imagine most of us would rather lose an arm or a leg than lose our dicks. I don't care how small a piece it is, I'm glad I've still got it attached.
Adrien on
0
Options
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Circumcision is sadistic genital mutilation that came from religious groups and then later
tried to pass it off as scientifically proven health benefits.
yes..because we all harbor a deep seated desire to cut up kids' dicks. Oooooeeee!! can't wait to cut me up some kid dick...hur hur hur hur!! Curse you!!! How did you find out about our deviant fetish!!! Damn! I gotta stiffy just talking about it...better cut myself up s'more.
Enough with the loaded hyperbole! The demonization of circumcision is beyond absurd!! You don't like circumcision, great! more power to you!! Make your choice for your kids. Leave other people out of it You have no moral high ground here. You can't simply dismiss the vast majority of the circumcisions that have went off without a hitch with no ill effects. You can't tell people they're wrong or immoral for doing it just because you say so. You can choose what's right for your kids and allow me the same courtesy for mine.
If uncircumcised is so great..then lead by fucking example, teach it to your kids and pass it on. If it truly is the better way to go, then time will prove it and circumcision will be a quaint memory. Use education and facts instead of bullshit fearmongering using words like barbaric and mutilation. Otherwise your case is weak and you don't have a leg to stand on. Don't impose your narrow-minded views on the rest of us.
A thread like this gets started and leaves no middle ground or freedom of choice and then you wonder why it gets so polarized. I read this thread and started to seriously question the need for circumcision and come in here with an open mind, but hey im not about to decide what's right for everyone else. But no, this thread turns into pure antagonism towards people who choose differently and are dismissed out of hand and demonized. I was initially open to the idea of non circumcision, but nooo...I guess I wasn't hard line enough for the thread. Congratulations on making another fine Debate and Discourse thread.
Circumcision is sadistic genital mutilation that came from religious groups and then later
tried to pass it off as scientifically proven health benefits.
yes..because we all harbor a deep seated desire to cut up kids' dicks. Oooooeeee!! can't wait to cut me up some kid dick...hur hur hur hur!! Curse you!!! How did you find out about our deviant fetish!!! Damn! I gotta stiffy just talking about it...better cut myself up s'more.
Enough with the loaded hyperbole! The demonization of circumcision is beyond absurd!! You don't like circumcision, great! more power to you!! Make your choice for your kids. Leave other people out of it You have no moral high ground here. You can't simply dismiss the vast majority of the circumcisions that have went off without a hitch with no ill effects. You can't tell people they're wrong or immoral for doing it just because you say so. You can choose what's right for your kids and allow me the same courtesy for mine.
If uncircumcised is so great..then lead by fucking example, teach it to your kids and pass it on. If it truly is the better way to go, then time will prove it and circumcision will be a quaint memory. Use education and facts instead of bullshit fearmongering using words like barbaric and mutilation. Otherwise your case is weak and you don't have a leg to stand on. Don't impose your narrow-minded views on the rest of us.
A thread like this gets started and leaves no middle ground or freedom of choice and then you wonder why it gets so polarized. I read this thread and started to seriously question the need for circumcision and come in here with an open mind, but hey im not about to decide what's right for everyone else. But no, this thread turns into pure antagonism towards people who choose differently and are dismissed out of hand and demonized. I was initially open to the idea of non circumcision, but nooo...I guess I wasn't hard line enough for the thread. Congratulations on making another fine Debate and Discourse thread.
Feel free to continue to respond to Azazar instead of, say, everyone else suggesting that you let a boy choose whether or not to be circumcised at some time other than infancy, and by all means continue letting him characterize the thread for you.
A thread like this gets started and leaves no middle ground or freedom of choice and then you wonder why it gets so polarized. I read this thread and started to seriously question the need for circumcision and come in here with an open mind, but hey im not about to decide what's right for everyone else.
But this is the whole problem with infant circumcision, it's not about making a choice for yourself, it's about deciding what you think is right for someone else. Nobody is arguing that deciding to get yourself circumcised is wrong, it's when you force it on someone else who has no say in the matter that it becomes a problem. Freedom of choice and all that.
A thread like this gets started and leaves no middle ground or freedom of choice and then you wonder why it gets so polarized. I read this thread and started to seriously question the need for circumcision and come in here with an open mind, but hey im not about to decide what's right for everyone else.
But this is the whole problem with infant circumcision, it's not about making a choice for yourself, it's about deciding what you think is right for someone else. Nobody is arguing that deciding to get yourself circumcised is wrong, it's when you force it on someone else who has no say in the matter that it becomes a problem. Freedom of choice and all that.
My parents have made a lot of decisions that have affected my life permanently and I have to live with it. They have that power because they created me. I believe it is fine for parents to make these medical decisions and other life affecting choices. It is their responsibility as parents. It is not child abuse and hundreds of millions of people are fine with a procedure that only takes a few millimeters of skin over the head of my dick.
Ultimately, if you care about the issue of your circumsized dick when you are older demand some money from your parents so you can get surgery that "repairs" your dick back to full capacity. Unless you're Bruce Wayne and your parents are dead... than you have to live a life stomping in bad guys' faces because you couldn't handle the terror of living the rest of with a circumcised dick.
A thread like this gets started and leaves no middle ground or freedom of choice and then you wonder why it gets so polarized. I read this thread and started to seriously question the need for circumcision and come in here with an open mind, but hey im not about to decide what's right for everyone else.
But this is the whole problem with infant circumcision, it's not about making a choice for yourself, it's about deciding what you think is right for someone else. Nobody is arguing that deciding to get yourself circumcised is wrong, it's when you force it on someone else who has no say in the matter that it becomes a problem. Freedom of choice and all that.
My parents have made a lot of decisions that have affected my life permanently and I have to live with it. They have that power because they created me. I believe it is fine for parents to make these medical decisions and other life affecting choices. It is their responsibility as parents. It is not child abuse and hundreds of millions of people are fine with a procedure that only takes a few millimeters of skin over the head of my dick.
Ultimately, if you care about the issue of your circumsized dick when you are older demand some money from your parents so you can get surgery that "repairs" your dick back to full capacity. Unless you're Bruce Wayne and your parents are dead... than you have to live a life stomping in bad guys' faces because you couldn't handle the terror of living the rest of with a circumcised dick.
Being responsible for your child does not mean you can do what you want. As benign as this surgery may or may not be you are permenently taking something away from your child, at a time when they cannot consent or refuse.
A thread like this gets started and leaves no middle ground or freedom of choice and then you wonder why it gets so polarized. I read this thread and started to seriously question the need for circumcision and come in here with an open mind, but hey im not about to decide what's right for everyone else.
But this is the whole problem with infant circumcision, it's not about making a choice for yourself, it's about deciding what you think is right for someone else. Nobody is arguing that deciding to get yourself circumcised is wrong, it's when you force it on someone else who has no say in the matter that it becomes a problem. Freedom of choice and all that.
My parents have made a lot of decisions that have affected my life permanently and I have to live with it. They have that power because they created me. I believe it is fine for parents to make these medical decisions and other life affecting choices. It is their responsibility as parents. It is not child abuse and hundreds of millions of people are fine with a procedure that only takes a few millimeters of skin over the head of my dick.
Ultimately, if you care about the issue of your circumsized dick when you are older demand some money from your parents so you can get surgery that "repairs" your dick back to full capacity. Unless you're Bruce Wayne and your parents are dead... than you have to live a life stomping in bad guys' faces because you couldn't handle the terror of living the rest of with a circumcised dick.
Or.... you could not circumcise your kid and he can make that decision for himself, too, if he doesn't like your decision.
Again, can't wait until the US catches up to the rest of the 1st world.
Incidentally, how do you feel about the removal of the clitoral hood in female infants? For or against?
I miss those few millimeters of skin around my penis. We could've had so much fun together. Laughing, playing, eating and drinking. It's almost as though my parents chopped off a part of my soul.
Oh, how I look down upon my crouch and cry "Alas, ye shall never know of the glory that is an uncircumcised penis! You shall never be able to function without it!"
If only they knew of the tremors I feel at night, awake, so alone. With nothing more than my circumcised penis to keep me company. It's likened to that of a marriage that has grown stall; the flesh, so...neat and smooth. Trimmed, like a Christmas tree in December. Never being complete. Never to be complete.
Oh, woe is me! How I wish they hadn't taken from me that minuscule, unimportant part in some religious/health-related issue. I must suffer on, though. I must persist. I must live with this abomination; this mutilation; this barbaric...thing. I wish I could tell my parents that I want to have this reversed, but, alas...
It's starting to get rather annoying that many of the people on the side of infant circumcision are being completely facetious and petulant.
I'm not seeing near as much of that on the "let's wait until the child is old enough to decide for himself" side.
Have you not been reading the past few pages?
I'm tired of seeing shit fly over something that, in the long run, doesn't matter. Want to circumcise your child's penis? Fine. Don't? Cool. Want to keep up a circular argument that will never find an end because people are not the same? Go ahead.
It's turned into either "Circumcisions are good because x, and ones that are not are bad because ???" and "Circumcising your child's penis is barbaric, backwards, done to praise Jesus and unethical, and uncircumcised penises are fine because ???"
You're completely ignoring the rather large group that says "There's nothing wrong with circumcision in and of itself, but we believe that it does not offer benefits great enough that it should be done without somebody's consent, and therefore we should wait until they give consent."
Actually, you're not even ignoring us, you're trying to marginalize us by saying "lol, you silly geese are making such a big deal over a tiny flap of skin" when we're really discussing consent and nonessential irreversible surgery. That's even worse.
many people keep saying its not such a huge deal which really it isn't I suppose if you look at it in terms of what is truly important in your life.
but if you think about it in terms of medical ethics, it kinda is
Its pretty much the only medical procedure that carries a statistically significant risk for complications that we allow done by default with little to no medical need and negligible benefit. Even something like an amniocentesis which can provide invaluable diagnostic information on a fetus is highly discouraged as the risk of triggering a spontaneous abortion which is about .5% to 1% is considered unacceptable. As cited before, the risk of complications for a circumcisions is quite a bit higher than that. And yes, I understand an abortion is much worse than many of the things considered a "complication" for circumcision. Despite that, it still the only medical procedure considered "default" with negligible benefits and a statistically significant risk. And the implications of that are what people here seem to be arguing past each other about.
You're completely ignoring the rather large group that says "There's nothing wrong with circumcision in and of itself, but we believe that it does not offer benefits great enough that it should be done without somebody's consent, and therefore we should wait until they give consent."
Actually, you're not even ignoring us, you're trying to marginalize us by saying "lol, you silly geese are making such a big deal over a tiny flap of skin" when we're really discussing consent and nonessential irreversible surgery. That's even worse.
And no, I'm not ignoring you or anyone else. What I am saying is that there are early medical risks taken with uncircumcised penises(though I'd hope no one has had any), you could go either way. Do it or don't. There may come a time when a child needs a circumcision. Maybe parents are religious(definitely not the best reason). Maybe they decided to avoid the risk of early infections altogether with circumcisions.
I guess I should ask this as well; to those of you who are uncircumcised, did your parents ever talk to you about it? Did you talk to them? At this point in life I'm sure you've got the routine down for cleaning and all, so I want to know if the decision was ever yours.
It's starting to get rather annoying that many of the people on the side of infant circumcision are being completely facetious and petulant.
I'm not seeing near as much of that on the "let's wait until the child is old enough to decide for himself" side.
Have you not been reading the past few pages?
I'm tired of seeing shit fly over something that, in the long run, doesn't matter. Want to circumcise your child's penis? Fine. Don't? Cool. Want to keep up a circular argument that will never find an end because people are not the same? Go ahead.
It's turned into either "Circumcisions are good because x, and ones that are not are bad because ???" and "Circumcising your child's penis is barbaric, backwards, done to praise Jesus and unethical, and uncircumcised penises are fine because ???"
People who think their kids should be circumcised and those that don't.
Of those two groups, the first has people that wish they had been circumcised and can elect to get the procedure done. The second has people that wish they hadn't been and have no option whatsoever.
So why should the first be catered to when if the second gets their way no one is irreversibly screwed over?
It's starting to get rather annoying that many of the people on the side of infant circumcision are being completely facetious and petulant.
I'm not seeing near as much of that on the "let's wait until the child is old enough to decide for himself" side.
Have you not been reading the past few pages?
I'm tired of seeing shit fly over something that, in the long run, doesn't matter. Want to circumcise your child's penis? Fine. Don't? Cool. Want to keep up a circular argument that will never find an end because people are not the same? Go ahead.
It's turned into either "Circumcisions are good because x, and ones that are not are bad because ???" and "Circumcising your child's penis is barbaric, backwards, done to praise Jesus and unethical, and uncircumcised penises are fine because ???"
People who think their kids should be circumcised and those that don't.
Of those two groups, the first has people that wish they had been circumcised and can elect to get the procedure done. The second has people that wish they hadn't been and have no option whatsoever.
So why should the first be catered to when if the second gets their way no one is irreversibly screwed over?
At what point did the first group exist? It seemed you had a group who had been circumcised and were happy with it. And what's with the "irreversibly screwed over" bit? The world will not stop turning because they did/didn't have this procedure. Should it be mandatory? No. Can it remain an option? Yes.
I don't think kids have as much freedom of choice as you think they do. Parents can override a lot of stuff
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
It's starting to get rather annoying that many of the people on the side of infant circumcision are being completely facetious and petulant.
I'm not seeing near as much of that on the "let's wait until the child is old enough to decide for himself" side.
Have you not been reading the past few pages?
I'm tired of seeing shit fly over something that, in the long run, doesn't matter. Want to circumcise your child's penis? Fine. Don't? Cool. Want to keep up a circular argument that will never find an end because people are not the same? Go ahead.
It's turned into either "Circumcisions are good because x, and ones that are not are bad because ???" and "Circumcising your child's penis is barbaric, backwards, done to praise Jesus and unethical, and uncircumcised penises are fine because ???"
People who think their kids should be circumcised and those that don't.
Of those two groups, the first has people that wish they had been circumcised and can elect to get the procedure done. The second has people that wish they hadn't been and have no option whatsoever.
So why should the first be catered to when if the second gets their way no one is irreversibly screwed over?
At what point did the first group exist? It seemed you had a group who had been circumcised and were happy with it. And what's with the "irreversibly screwed over" bit? The world will not stop turning because they did/didn't have this procedure. Should it be mandatory? No. Can it remain an option? Yes.
The "irreversibly" refers to the fact that you cannot undo a circumcision. Nobody's saying the world will stop turning (really. Nobody's saying that. I know you seem to think so, but nobody is saying that), but is it or is it not true that circumcision is irreversible?
Should the removal of the clitoral hood in female infants remain an option?
Normally, I would agree with the people saying "you do things your way and I'll do thing mine. Agree to disagree and all that"
But in this case you are cutting off part a babies penis for no real value in the 1st world, while the rest of the world looks at us like we are crazy for having this be a cultural norm.
We're trying to talk about the ethics of irreversible nonessential surgeries performed without consent, but some people sure seem to love redirecting the discussion into cocksdickslol.
And I hate having this debate in person, especially with female friends. As soon as I bring up cutting off the hood on girl they get really quiet and try to change the subject, because its never really occurred to them that a guy shouldn't be circumcised at birth. Or they yell at me for comparing circumcision to mutilation
We're trying to talk about the ethics of irreversible nonessential surgeries performed without consent, but some people sure seem to love redirecting the discussion into cocksdickslol.
Did you have anything to contribute?
Nope
I guess you could say I'm just being a dick.
Lieberkuhn on
While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
I have a problem with anyone who uses a freedom of choice argument for performing unnecessary surgery on someone else without their consent
I mean, is there anything worse than this that a parent can choose for their child? Cause if this is the upper limit of what a parent can and can't do willy nilly, I have no problem arguing for not allowing them to do it.
If I ever have this discussion in person it devolves into name calling, and saying how whomever i'm talking to's mother didn't really seem to mind last night
then we realize that we dont really care about what we're talking about.
Most parental choices don't involve the removal of body parts though.
As far as health concerns go, though, parents can override the kid's decisions and violate kid's confidentiality under certain situations, under certain laws, under certain households, under 18.
I'm not as familiar with law as I should be, so keeping body parts out of the equation for now, since they're not well litigated anyway, what other characteristics of this action could put it firmly in the hands of the parent or the child based on legal precedent? That's the question every judge would like a cheat sheet for if these ever come to trial.
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
0
Options
ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
And I hate having this debate in person, especially with female friends. As soon as I bring up cutting off the hood on girl they get really quiet and try to change the subject, because its never really occurred to them that a guy shouldn't be circumcised at birth. Or they yell at me for comparing circumcision to mutilation
Question: What if you wanted to have your child circumcised when he is 10? or 15? Assuming there is no pressing medical condition that necessitates it needing to be done, would this be acceptable?
And I hate having this debate in person, especially with female friends. As soon as I bring up cutting off the hood on girl they get really quiet and try to change the subject, because its never really occurred to them that a guy shouldn't be circumcised at birth.
Clearly your female friends just don't think about penises enough.
Posts
If you aren't Jewish or Arab, or whathaveyou, there's no reason to be passionate about it. There's no symbolic reason, and thus, no need to rationalize.
Please stop confusing Arab with Muslim. Thanks.
That said, circumcision was an Arab custom before it was a Muslim custom.
If you're going to start criticising peoples arguments for using what you see as sensationalist language, don't you dare do shit like this. The double standard is baffling.
Seems like a good time for this again:
The emphasis, genius, was on the age group. The post was a response to those saying kids don't have to worry about penile infections.
Next time, try using context clues and following the entire discussion.
yes..because we all harbor a deep seated desire to cut up kids' dicks. Oooooeeee!! can't wait to cut me up some kid dick...hur hur hur hur!! Curse you!!! How did you find out about our deviant fetish!!! Damn! I gotta stiffy just talking about it...better cut myself up s'more.
Enough with the loaded hyperbole! The demonization of circumcision is beyond absurd!! You don't like circumcision, great! more power to you!! Make your choice for your kids. Leave other people out of it You have no moral high ground here. You can't simply dismiss the vast majority of the circumcisions that have went off without a hitch with no ill effects. You can't tell people they're wrong or immoral for doing it just because you say so. You can choose what's right for your kids and allow me the same courtesy for mine.
If uncircumcised is so great..then lead by fucking example, teach it to your kids and pass it on. If it truly is the better way to go, then time will prove it and circumcision will be a quaint memory. Use education and facts instead of bullshit fearmongering using words like barbaric and mutilation. Otherwise your case is weak and you don't have a leg to stand on. Don't impose your narrow-minded views on the rest of us.
A thread like this gets started and leaves no middle ground or freedom of choice and then you wonder why it gets so polarized. I read this thread and started to seriously question the need for circumcision and come in here with an open mind, but hey im not about to decide what's right for everyone else. But no, this thread turns into pure antagonism towards people who choose differently and are dismissed out of hand and demonized. I was initially open to the idea of non circumcision, but nooo...I guess I wasn't hard line enough for the thread. Congratulations on making another fine Debate and Discourse thread.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Feel free to continue to respond to Azazar instead of, say, everyone else suggesting that you let a boy choose whether or not to be circumcised at some time other than infancy, and by all means continue letting him characterize the thread for you.
But this is the whole problem with infant circumcision, it's not about making a choice for yourself, it's about deciding what you think is right for someone else. Nobody is arguing that deciding to get yourself circumcised is wrong, it's when you force it on someone else who has no say in the matter that it becomes a problem. Freedom of choice and all that.
My parents have made a lot of decisions that have affected my life permanently and I have to live with it. They have that power because they created me. I believe it is fine for parents to make these medical decisions and other life affecting choices. It is their responsibility as parents. It is not child abuse and hundreds of millions of people are fine with a procedure that only takes a few millimeters of skin over the head of my dick.
Ultimately, if you care about the issue of your circumsized dick when you are older demand some money from your parents so you can get surgery that "repairs" your dick back to full capacity. Unless you're Bruce Wayne and your parents are dead... than you have to live a life stomping in bad guys' faces because you couldn't handle the terror of living the rest of with a circumcised dick.
Being responsible for your child does not mean you can do what you want. As benign as this surgery may or may not be you are permenently taking something away from your child, at a time when they cannot consent or refuse.
You think a parent should be able to get any unnecessary medical procedure done on a child they want?
Or.... you could not circumcise your kid and he can make that decision for himself, too, if he doesn't like your decision.
Again, can't wait until the US catches up to the rest of the 1st world.
Incidentally, how do you feel about the removal of the clitoral hood in female infants? For or against?
I just get pissed when people act like there is something wrong with not doing it.
Oh, how I look down upon my crouch and cry "Alas, ye shall never know of the glory that is an uncircumcised penis! You shall never be able to function without it!"
If only they knew of the tremors I feel at night, awake, so alone. With nothing more than my circumcised penis to keep me company. It's likened to that of a marriage that has grown stall; the flesh, so...neat and smooth. Trimmed, like a Christmas tree in December. Never being complete. Never to be complete.
Oh, woe is me! How I wish they hadn't taken from me that minuscule, unimportant part in some religious/health-related issue. I must suffer on, though. I must persist. I must live with this abomination; this mutilation; this barbaric...thing. I wish I could tell my parents that I want to have this reversed, but, alas...
They are dead...
I'm not seeing near as much of that on the "let's wait until the child is old enough to decide for himself" side.
Have you not been reading the past few pages?
I'm tired of seeing shit fly over something that, in the long run, doesn't matter. Want to circumcise your child's penis? Fine. Don't? Cool. Want to keep up a circular argument that will never find an end because people are not the same? Go ahead.
It's turned into either "Circumcisions are good because x, and ones that are not are bad because ???" and "Circumcising your child's penis is barbaric, backwards, done to praise Jesus and unethical, and uncircumcised penises are fine because ???"
Actually, you're not even ignoring us, you're trying to marginalize us by saying "lol, you silly geese are making such a big deal over a tiny flap of skin" when we're really discussing consent and nonessential irreversible surgery. That's even worse.
but if you think about it in terms of medical ethics, it kinda is
Its pretty much the only medical procedure that carries a statistically significant risk for complications that we allow done by default with little to no medical need and negligible benefit. Even something like an amniocentesis which can provide invaluable diagnostic information on a fetus is highly discouraged as the risk of triggering a spontaneous abortion which is about .5% to 1% is considered unacceptable. As cited before, the risk of complications for a circumcisions is quite a bit higher than that. And yes, I understand an abortion is much worse than many of the things considered a "complication" for circumcision. Despite that, it still the only medical procedure considered "default" with negligible benefits and a statistically significant risk. And the implications of that are what people here seem to be arguing past each other about.
This seems pretty comprehensive.
And no, I'm not ignoring you or anyone else. What I am saying is that there are early medical risks taken with uncircumcised penises(though I'd hope no one has had any), you could go either way. Do it or don't. There may come a time when a child needs a circumcision. Maybe parents are religious(definitely not the best reason). Maybe they decided to avoid the risk of early infections altogether with circumcisions.
I guess I should ask this as well; to those of you who are uncircumcised, did your parents ever talk to you about it? Did you talk to them? At this point in life I'm sure you've got the routine down for cleaning and all, so I want to know if the decision was ever yours.
At what point did the first group exist? It seemed you had a group who had been circumcised and were happy with it. And what's with the "irreversibly screwed over" bit? The world will not stop turning because they did/didn't have this procedure. Should it be mandatory? No. Can it remain an option? Yes.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
The "irreversibly" refers to the fact that you cannot undo a circumcision. Nobody's saying the world will stop turning (really. Nobody's saying that. I know you seem to think so, but nobody is saying that), but is it or is it not true that circumcision is irreversible?
Should the removal of the clitoral hood in female infants remain an option?
Look what else are we supposed to talk about in this thread!
But in this case you are cutting off part a babies penis for no real value in the 1st world, while the rest of the world looks at us like we are crazy for having this be a cultural norm.
We're trying to talk about the ethics of irreversible nonessential surgeries performed without consent, but some people sure seem to love redirecting the discussion into cocksdickslol.
Did you have anything to contribute?
Nope
I guess you could say I'm just being a dick.
I mean, is there anything worse than this that a parent can choose for their child? Cause if this is the upper limit of what a parent can and can't do willy nilly, I have no problem arguing for not allowing them to do it.
then we realize that we dont really care about what we're talking about.
As far as health concerns go, though, parents can override the kid's decisions and violate kid's confidentiality under certain situations, under certain laws, under certain households, under 18.
I'm not as familiar with law as I should be, so keeping body parts out of the equation for now, since they're not well litigated anyway, what other characteristics of this action could put it firmly in the hands of the parent or the child based on legal precedent? That's the question every judge would like a cheat sheet for if these ever come to trial.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
...
-_-
Clearly your female friends just don't think about penises enough.