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Canadian Politics: Another Moose Bites The Dust

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Posts

  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Once again,
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Loklar wrote: »
    Media is something that needs lots of voices. Skilled ones are better. But even if they endup being fools it's still better for journalism.

    I don't give a shit if it's good for your industry and will make you and your friends money, I care if it's good for the country. Having anyone even remotely like Coulter or Beck given a place to vent their stupidity and racism cannot be good for our country.

    Seriously. It doesn't even matter if it improves the reporting of the CBC or CTV or anyone else as you seem to believe it will. If it panders to the racists, bigots, fundamentalists and other idiots and reinforces their beliefs, it is harming this country.

    psyck0 on
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  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited June 2010
    oldmanken wrote: »
    See, you're moving the goal posts again and changing the topic of the discussion.

    I'm in no way suggesting that SunTV should not be allowed to broadcast, as they most certainly should be able to. What I'm arguing and commenting about is whether or not such a station will contribute to the quality of the political discourse in this country.

    You believe that Quebecor should have it's own station but it will be a detriment to our society? That's got to be a tough position to hold. But I respect your devotion to free speech. I just think free speech is a benefit.

    I think the more voices the better. I've always said that and I don't believe I moved goal posts. I absolutly believe that more voices are better, that free speech is an inherent good and that voices, even those we disagree with, are important to hear publicly.

    So I guess we don't disagree. I just don't swallow free speech like medicine. I think it's a good thing.

    I think that if you agree with free speech, you'll come around to reason that more voices is better as a neccessity. Otherwise why would you be for free speech?

    Loklar on
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    No, I won't come around to the automatic assumption that more voices equal better, because it's an absolutely ridiculous position.

    If you have an accurate and quality media landscape, which we currently enjoy in Canada, how does adding a disingenuous media outlet improve the discourse? Simple answer, it doesn't, and it can be incredibly harmful to the political discourse in this country.

    Can you honestly look to the south and think that the political discourse as it is now, and as ushered in by the introduction of Fox News, can be considered an advancement in the political discourse in the US? That's what is likely coming to Canada, and it will be a poisonous and insidious addition.

    oldmanken on
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited June 2010
    oldmanken wrote: »
    No, I won't come around to the automatic assumption that more voices equal better, because it's an absolutely ridiculous position.

    If you have an accurate and quality media landscape, which we currently enjoy in Canada, how does adding a disingenuous media outlet improve the discourse? Simple answer, it doesn't, and it can be incredibly harmful to the political discourse in this country.

    Can you honestly look to the south and think that the political discourse as it is now, and as ushered in by the introduction of Fox News, can be considered an advancement in the political discourse in the US? That's what is likely coming to Canada, and it will be a poisonous and insidious addition.

    Then you're not for free-speech. The US has great news outlets, some of the best in the world. Just because Broadcast sucks doesn't mean much. And I think NPR is fantastic. What they need is more broadcasters. (what they really need is something to fill the void of newspapers, but I can't wish for everything)

    The problem with the US is that people only look at Fox. What about NYT, WSJ, Harpers, New Yorker, Village Voice, NPR. The US has a rich tradition in quality news. It's suffering now, news everywhere is suffering, but overall and historically the US is an excellent place for journalism. Ppl from CBC salivate over NPR, my old boss jumped to them actually. NPR does great old-school can't-tell-where-they-are-politically journalism.

    TV journalism almost universally is weaker than print and radio in terms of fundamentals. Unfortunately it has the biggest audience. If you wanted to be a well-informed Canadian I wouldn't advice going to TV. Radio and Newspaper will give you better, deeper analysis and original reporting. TV just gives you snippets, and generally only news that'll fit in a half-hour (that includes commercials and "cutesy" stories).

    @Hippofant = The Star recently (6months iirc) laid off 10% of it's staff. It's funny that you mention international stories. Because those are cheaper than stories written by reporters, because they are just bought from AP or Reuters. I haven't checked, but I don't think the Star has any reporters overseas (except maybe one in Washington and Afghanistan). What you're reading when you get an international story, is probably a straight copy story gotten over the wire that every news outlet has.

    The Metro also covers international news but employs literally zero reporters. It only has copy editors and columnists.

    Star layoffs: http://www.thestar.com/business/article/736884--star-agrees-to-166-staff-buyouts

    Loklar on
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Wow, I had read that news article on the Fox News North but wasn't until I read my Globe & Mail article on it before bursting out laughing:
    Mr. Teneycke attempted to recuirt CBC comedian Rick Mercer as well, but was not successful.

    ...

    Sources say Canadian right-wing pundit Ezra Levant is being courted to host one of the station's new opinion shows.

    They courted Rick Mercer? Really?

    Aegis on
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  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    Then you're not for free-speech.

    If I were not for free-speech I would be advocating a curtailment of speech, which I most certainly am not doing. As I previously said, and which you have suddenly decided to ignore after previously acknowledging it, I fully support the right of this new channel to be created. Having got an issue with that at all, and that puts me very much on the pro-free speech side of things.

    However, what you continue to avoid is the contention that I and others have made. So le me break it down into a single bolded and italicized sentence for you:

    Not all speech is good.

    We're making no comment on whether it should be allowed or not, we're just making a comment on speech itself. Correction, I am making a comment... I'm ok with even shitty speech being aired and protected. Doesn't mean it's not shitty and stupid and harmful.

    And lets just try to get back on topic here, a topic which you are clearly and continuously trying to steer the conversation away from. We aren't talking about newspapers or journalism as a whole. We are talking about television, and specifically the 24-hour news style channels. Newspapers are irrelevant to this discussion, so stop trying to bring it back to that.

    So, how is having a lying and deceitful Fox News style TV channel helpful to Canada's political discourse? That's the fundamental question here, and one that you have consistently tried to avoid.

    oldmanken on
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    @Hippofant = The Star recently (6months iirc) laid off 10% of it's staff. It's funny that you mention international stories. Because those are cheaper than stories written by reporters, because they are just bought from AP or Reuters. I haven't checked, but I don't think the Star has any reporters overseas (except maybe one in Washington and Afghanistan). What you're reading when you get an international story, is probably a straight copy story gotten over the wire that every news outlet has.

    The Metro also covers international news but employs literally zero reporters. It only has copy editors and columnists.

    Star layoffs: http://www.thestar.com/business/article/736884--star-agrees-to-166-staff-buyouts

    And? I used to work at the Toronto Star. I know what they're doing. And I regularly check the origins of their stories, taking drastic pains to avoid any Rosie DiManno column in particular. The Toronto Star's never really had international bureaus; most of their international news, as far as I can remember, have always come from AP or Reuters or the NY Times, though for a while, they buried the international stuff deep in the front section, and now that they've split it off into its own section, it's actually risen in prominence and they've shifted their own reporting resources to local/provincial/federal stuff, which is largely how I'd prefer it anyways. How is that funny at all? Or are you making some sort of cogent point that I'm missing entirely?

    My point is that your argument that competition -> better is bullshit. I don't know if you were trying to refute or address that at all, but if you were, it went right over my head. Or were you just trying to tell me a bunch of things I already knew?

    hippofant on
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I like Al Jazeera English, generally. English language news from outside the anglosphere? Sounds pretty good.

    Sun-TV doesn't really bother me, either. I just think it's laughable that some people think there's a market for a television station that is more right wing than CTV. That sort of boggles my mind.

    And I'm fairly certain that propaganda and hate speech are both illegal, so I'm too worried about Ezra Levant spouting off. But hey, let's all pile on Loklar for kicks.

    saggio on
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  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    saggio wrote: »
    Sun-TV doesn't really bother me, either. I just think it's laughable that some people think there's a market for a television station that is more right wing than CTV. That sort of boggles my mind.

    Some people think CTV is liberal media, seriously

    The whole "liberal media" bogeyman is just a way for extreme rightists to continuously drag the mainstream of public discourse farther and farther into their court. I have little doubt Canadian TV audiences will fall for it.

    Azio on
  • ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Chiming in on a comment made pages past, I think: Ottawa has two newspapers, the Citizen and the Sun.

    And making it relevant to more recent posts: Every time someone starts a conversation by quoting the Sun at me, I just kind of have to shake my head, because I know I'm going to have to fight against an opinion piece presented as news. Like, every time.

    And that? I don't want that in a 24x7 TV news channel. The stupid, it will MAGNIFY.

    Imperfect on
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Imperfect wrote: »
    Chiming in on a comment made pages past, I think: Ottawa has two newspapers, the Citizen and the Sun.

    Yeah, Québec City has at least two newspapers (Le Soleil and Le Journal de Québec), Montreal has at least three (Le Journal de Montréal, La Presse and Le Devoir, and a fourth if you want to count that free newspaper they give in the subway), and that's just off the top of my head. The idea that every city in Canada except Toronto has only one newspaper is just another falsehood in the massive set Loklar threw at us and pretended were "good arguments".

    Richy on
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  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited June 2010
    My French is rusty. Not sure why you only mentioned french newspapers, considering we’re all speaking english here.

    Anyway, if you google different cities, not everything listed as a newspaper really counts. Many are going online-only, or are becoming Metro-like free papers (which don’t count because every story is either opinion or an AP/Reuters copy story).

    Columbia Review of Journalism. Which basically has an American report at the death of two paper towns in the US.

    Table for Two? Looking at the Remaining Two-Newspaper towns.
    A struggle for even a single newspaper to be profitable and impossible for multiple papers in a single market. On the heels of the Rocky Mountain News’s closure, the question may seem rather non sequitur: What’s the future of the two-paper town? It’s an academic question as much as it is a practical one. “There’s no substitute for competing newspapers in journalism,” newspaper analyst John Morton tells us. “However, it doesn’t have great national significance because the two-newspaper town has just about disappeared in this country. This has been going on, the closing of the weaker of two papers, for fifty years, and we’re getting to the end of it.”

    http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/table_for_two.php

    Here’s an accompanying article, ironically a blog ymmv, that states there are less than 10 2-newspaper towns in the US:

    Less than ten two-newspaper towns left in USA
    http://mustardayonnaise.com/?p=28

    I focus on US simple because it’s easier to Google. I’d argue that the same forces affecting the American newspaper industry are affecting the Canadian. I don’t have evidence of this, I expect that position to be uncontroversial. But there are Canadian examples

    Daily News disappears from Halifax: February 11, 2008 (Daily News is the name of “the other” Halifax Newspaper
    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2008/02/11/dailynews-closes.html

    Also the 10% staff cuts at the Toronto Star I mentioned earlier, all points in a certain direction. I don’t think that anyone actually disagrees with that direction (news is getting worse, smaller) but everyone loves to nit-pick. So fine, Richy, French-speaking places tend to have a number of newspapers. So do the biggest metropolitan areas of Canada. But generally newsrooms are shrinking, going online and cutting costs. Canada’s biggest city only has 2 real newspapers, and I’m counting The Toronto Sun as one of them.

    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    It’s not all doom though. Eventually the internet will sort out a profitable model for quality reporting. Most haven’t hit it yet though.

    Loklar on
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    My French is rusty. Not sure why you only mentioned french newspapers, considering we’re all speaking english here.
    Because I'm from Québec, so these are the towns and newspapers I know best. But there are Canadians from all over our nation here. If you want, I'm sure every single one of us can list all the newspapers from our hometowns and show you just how wrong you are.
    Anyway, if you google different cities, not everything listed as a newspaper really counts. Many are going online-only, or are becoming Metro-like free papers (which don’t count because every story is either opinion or an AP/Reuters copy story).
    Yeah I wasn't hot on counting the metro newspaper, I just mentioned it in passing. But I did forget the Montreal Gazette, though. So there, we're up to four real newspapers for Montreal.

    And why do you only count local papers anyway? You ignore the fact that we can get the large national papers delivered anywhere in the country. At the very least the National Post and the Globe and Mail are always avaiable, and if we go by your mistaken analysis that every town has one local paper, that makes every town in our nation a three-paper town. Or is it that you're only counting news as heard and reported by a guy who lives two blocks down the street from you as "real news"?
    Columbia Review of Journalism. Which basically has an American report at the death of two paper towns in the US.
    Yes, the news situation in the USA is deplorable. No one is arguing against that. You're the only one who's arguing that we should become more like them.
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.

    Richy on
    sig.gif
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.

    Sigged

    Gaddez on
    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    For those interested, major Canadian cities and their daily newspapers:

    Alberta - Calgary
    • Calgary Herald
    • Calgary Sun
    Alberta - Edmonton
    • Edmonton Journal
    • Edmonton Sun
    British Columbia - Vancouver
    • Vancouver Province
    • Vancouver Sun
    British Columbia - Victoria
    • Victoria Times Colonist
    Manitoba - Winnipeg
    • Winnipeg Sun
    • Winnipeg Free Press
    • Winnipeg Herald
    New Brunswick - Fredericton
    • Fredericton Daily Gleaner
    Newfoundland - St. John's
    • St. John's Express
    • St. John's Telegram
    Nova Scotia - Halifax
    • Halifax Chronicle Herald
    Ontario - Ottawa
    • Ottawa Citizen
    • Ottawa Sun
    Ontario - Toronto
    • Toronto Star
    • Toronto Sun
    PEI - Charlottetown
    • Charlottetown Guardian
    Quebec - Montreal
    • La Presse
    • Le Devoir
    • Le Journal
    • Montreal Gazette
    Quebec - Quebec City
    • Le Soleil
    • Le Journal
    Saskatchewan - Saskatoon
    • Saskatoon Star Phoenix

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.

    Sigged

    That's awesome.

    Anyways, Quebecor is a Canadian company, so I don't know what grounds the CRTC would have to bar them from Canadian airwaves as Richy suggested. And the Sun Media is already all over Canada, so I'm not sure how them being on the airwaves is worth all this anger.

    It's only called "fox news". Otherwise it's Sun Newspaper on TV. The horror. Let's get the CRTC to block it, or wring our hands. I think I saw the sky fall.

    Also re: American News. They have the best and the worst news. Diversity does that.

    Loklar on
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Where'd you find that Edith?

    -Regina Leader-Post (only Google hit I saw)

    Loklar on
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    Where'd you find that Edith?

    -Regina Leader-Post (only Google hit I saw)

    I compiled the list by searching for newspapers in Canada, which led to a site called "Mondonews" that listed all papers in the world, and then I pared out all the specialty papers, free dailies, etc and checked the ones I was unsure of to make sure they were print dailies. Fifteen years ago, when I worked at a newspaper, we used to call that sort of thing "research". Out of curiousity, have you applied to SunTV? There have been several CBC alumni hired there and it seems like it would be a good fit for you.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • LoklarLoklar Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    Where'd you find that Edith?

    -Regina Leader-Post (only Google hit I saw)

    I compiled the list by searching for newspapers in Canada, which led to a site called "Mondonews" that listed all papers in the world, and then I pared out all the specialty papers, free dailies, etc and checked the ones I was unsure of to make sure they were print dailies. Fifteen years ago, when I worked at a newspaper, we used to call that sort of thing "research". Out of curiousity, have you applied to SunTV? There have been several CBC alumni hired there and it seems like it would be a good fit for you.

    I'm greatful for the information.

    I did/am considering apping to SunTV. There's a lot of things to consider. But in the end, where I am is fairly prestigious and I don't worry about my job. (My entry-level, fresh out of school job)

    I'd much rather sneak my way into CBC Radio. But... we'll see. The big advantage to SunTV is it being new, and will have money to throw around. And a tumultuous time would be great for someone young to strike a path.

    I guess I haven't decided. But I doubt I'll move.

    Loklar on
  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Burn! :P

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I'm not sure Toronto actually counts as a 2-paper town any more. Maybe I just haven't been in the right places, but I haven't seen the Toronto Sun very much at all lately. They seem to have been hit really hard by The Metro, I imagine mostly because the people who read the Toronto Sun probably aren't looking for much in the way of real news, so the Metro's fluff and free-ness fills the same niche more than adequately.

    I can't find any circulation numbers though, but newspaper circulation numbers have always been a little deceiving because there's no distinction drawn between ones delivered to office-places and left to languish in the break-room and the ones sent to people's houses and actually read.

    hippofant on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I wouldn't consider the Toronto Sun a real newspaper anyway.

    shryke on
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Does the Globe & Mail count as a Toronto paper or is it more a national one?

    Aegis on
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  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Aegis wrote: »
    Does the Globe & Mail count as a Toronto paper or is it more a national one?

    Both really. The G+M gets regionalized a bit, but they're definitely a Toronto paper at heart.

    Robman on
  • ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    How Canada made the G20 happen

    Goddamn, I miss Paul Martin.

    Imperfect on
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Imperfect wrote: »
    How Canada made the G20 happen

    Goddamn, I miss Paul Martin.

    Finance Ministers don't make good Prime Ministers.

    Give me a good Justice Minister any day of the week.

    saggio on
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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    saggio wrote: »
    Imperfect wrote: »
    How Canada made the G20 happen

    Goddamn, I miss Paul Martin.

    Finance Ministers don't make good Prime Ministers.

    Give me a good Justice Minister any day of the week.

    Done!

    CampbellCasual.jpg

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • JeanJean Soon to be papa bear Gatineau, QuébecRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Chiming in on a comment made pages past, I think: Ottawa has two newspapers, the Citizen and the Sun.

    It has 3 actually, you forgot Le Droit, now property of Power Corp (they also own La Presse , Le Soleil and a few more french regional papers).

    Journal de Montréal and Journal de Québec are properties of Quebecor. Among them 2, they control 98% of the french market.

    TV wise, it's not much better. TVA (owned by Quebecer) is by far first with close to 50% of the market. SRC (the french CBC) is a somewhat close second with roughly 25%. V (used to be TQS, property of Remstar) used to be somewhat relevant but now they're considered a bad joke. RDS (the french TSN, same owners) is now the 3rd most watched french channel, mostly due to the fact they have exclusive rights on Habs games.

    Jean on
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  • MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    If I see Peter Mansbridge reading Twitter entries, I will burn something.

    Meissnerd on
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  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Heh. The media companies have begun to astroturf for Bill C-32.

    http://www.facebook.com/balancedcopyright

    darkphoenix22 on
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Heh. The media companies have begun to astroturf for Bill C-32.

    http://www.facebook.com/balancedcopyright

    Man, I read the second paragraph of that "Why gamers should love the copyright bill" from the Calgary Herald and it was already incorrect. (Keep in mind, the first paragraph was: "On June 2 federal Minister of Industry Tony Clement and Minister of Canadian Heritage James Moore introduced Bill C-32, the Copyright Modernization Act.")
    In turn, strong copyright will also mean more choice for Canadian gamers -- in the range of creative and innovative video games that can be put on the market, choice for parents through settings that allow them to control what and how much their kids play, and new ways for consumers to access games.

    See, no it won't. Because video game makers aren't sitting in their offices going, "Boy, we'd make this game if only CANADA had stronger copyright laws." Canada's population is one tenth of the United States, never mind everywhere else said video game would sell.

    And how would the new copyright bill increase the availability of parental controls or accessibility to games? The former makes no sense at all, not to mention is something many gamers won't find appealing at all due to the historical heavy-handedness of the ESRB, nor does the latter. We already have Steam and Stardock and Gamersgate, MMOs, Battle.net and other similar matchmaking servers, tons of FPS servers.... How does the copyright bill make -those- more likely to occur, again never minding the fact that CANADA's copyright laws likely don't play any role in video game companies' delivery systems. You might as well imagine EA worrying about how Thai Red Shirts are going to be able to connect to their Madden 2011 servers. "Oh, we could do this, if it weren't for those crazy Canadians and their violating our digital locks for non-piracy purposes!"*

    All this article does for me is paint how completely retahded the Entertainment Software Association of Canada apparently is. Also, yeah sure, "Canadianmade (sic) games were front and centre at E3 Expo"... if you mean games developed and published by American companies who employ Canadians and have Canadian offices, sure.

    * Since violating digital locks for piracy purposes is already illegal under piracy laws.

    hippofant on
  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    edited June 2010
    I think it's telling that it's web developers who are the most vocally opposed to closed DRM. The Internet is built on open standards and specifications. We want the system currently place to be extended to support media. Closed DRM is fundamentally against the principles of universal use and access on which the Internet was created.


    To the media industry:

    When in Rome, it's best to do as the Romans do. Work with us and respect our principles and values and we will likely be willing to work with your industry to protect your content.

    It's your call.

    darkphoenix22 on
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    hippofant wrote: »

    All this article does for me is paint how completely retahded the Entertainment Software Association of Canada apparently is. Also, yeah sure, "Canadianmade (sic) games were front and centre at E3 Expo"... if you mean games developed and published by American companies who employ Canadians and have Canadian offices, sure.

    * Since violating digital locks for piracy purposes is already illegal under piracy laws.

    The truly delicious part is that quite possibly the worst examples of DRM (and conversely, best examples of why anti-circumvention legislation is a bad idea) came out of a Canadian studio - Ubisoft Montreal.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Banning the circumvention of digital locks?

    That means I can't circumvent the digital lock preventing me from installing programs not directly approved by Apple on my iPhone. If we don't take a stand, one day, these locks will extend to our PCs and restrict what applications we can use and what websites we can visit.

    These closed and proprietary locks aren't about piracy. They're about control. These companies want to dictate to us how we should use our bought and paid for hardware, software, and media.

    These companies don't want us to unlock the door ourselves, they want to unlock the door for us. They want us to stand in front of the door and ask them for permission to use our media and hardware.

    darkphoenix22 on
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Banning the circumvention of digital locks?

    That means I can't circumvent the digital lock preventing me from installing programs not directly approved by Apple on my iPhone. If we don't take a stand, one day, these locks will extend to our PCs and restrict what applications we can use and what websites we can visit.

    These closed and proprietary locks aren't about piracy. They're about control. These companies want to dictate to us how we should use their hardware, software, and media.

    These companies don't want us to unlock the door ourselves, they want to unlock the door for us. They want us to stand in front of the door and ask them for permission to use our media and hardware.

    Exactly. Piracy is already illegal. The goal here is to make MORE things illegal, but somehow these reforms keep getting framed as "fighting piracy". It's like, drug dealers carry around a lot of cash with them, so we're going to make carrying around a lot of cash illegal to fight drugs!

    Oh man, didn't Ubisoft have to basically patch out all their DRM stuff because it was breaking their games on everybody's computers?

    hippofant on
  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    edited June 2010
    The middlemen are being replaced. The TV stations, movie theatres, radio stations, and record stores are all being replaced by web developers and computer programmers.

    The horse buggy is in the process of being by the Model T. And the buggy manufacturers are scared shitless.

    Thus, they are resorting to trying to enact stupid laws like limiting the speed limit on roads to 20 km/h so they can stay competitive.

    darkphoenix22 on
  • ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Well, it's more like robust, well-designed and -manufactured cars are being replaced by shitty, cheap little trashmobiles with a hundredth the care put into their construction. Also, there's a swarm of people who can someone instantly duplicate all their work designing and manufacturing their cars merely after having seen them and for free.

    Yeah, using actual physical objects as an analogy is actually pretty terrible. It's an entirely different class of problem.

    Also? Woo-woo pep rally talk like that is both a) creepy, and b) not constructive to conversation. You wanna write like that, get a journal and some hippie protester friends, maybe.

    Imperfect on
  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    edited June 2010
    Eh. The analogy fits.

    And I'm not opposed to content authentication. However, the current DRM systems are not designed to protect artists. They are designed to restrict use and access to our media and hardware. The media companies want to force us to buy multiple copies of their content, even though there is no technological reason to do so. So they have, in earnest, created one out of thin air. This is the reason why we can not play a video bought off of Xbox Live on our iPods.

    The only successful content authentication system will be one that is universal to every device AND completely open source, utilizing open standards for the delivery, the container, and the encryption. This would be the most secure system possible due to peer review and would nullify many of the fair use arguments.

    The only problem is that it would cost many of these middlemen their jobs, as artists and producers would not need a third-party to publish their content.

    darkphoenix22 on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Except they'd still need someone to advertise their content.

    shryke on
  • darkphoenix22darkphoenix22 Registered User
    edited June 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Except they'd still need someone to advertise their content.

    So there will be a massive downsizing. Which is kind of already happening at TV stations, movie theatres, radio stations, and record stores. ;)

    darkphoenix22 on
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