Not really. You're all just callous jerks. Apparently bitches like that, but that's not me.
See, you sound like you're being serious when you say things like that, which makes it very hard to treat you like an adult.
That quote was why I decided to weigh in on this. He needs to realize that with his attitude the stuff he did 'for' that girl was just as much playacting as the absolute garbage found in The Game.
When I do something for someone, it's over, it's done. I don't get upset because they didn't appreciate it enough and let me put my P in the V.
edit: Wow, he posted and reinforced my entire point 10000x.
Relationships are based on mutual respect, dude. I am absolutely positive that is the most important part of a relationship and basically the foundation to everything else that happens in them. Respect.
We aren't saying you were doing nice things just to fuck her, just that you were doing nice things for entirely the wrong reason which unbalanced the relationship and meant that even if it lasted (which it didn't have a chance at) it wouldn't have been healthy.
Improvolone on
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I used to think the exact same way as Justin until a female friend sat me down and explained how attraction ACTUALLY works. I was still in denial and insisted that I'm a nice guy and girls should like that, so she forced me to read some of David Diangelo's newsletters and it finally started to click. You can't MAKE someone like you by being nice. Being "nice" all the time makes special gestures lose all meaning. You can't buy someone's attraction, it just doesn't work that way and is sleazy. Use your personality.
There wasn't a relationship. Dude went out with her a few times in a week.
That's part of the problem, he thought that because he did some nice shit for her over the period of a week they did more then go on a few dates. Well sir but tough titty, if it's just been a few dates and one partner finds someone they like a lot more (who wants to see them), then the correct action is to stop seeing person 1 and to try things out with number 2.
You shouldn't just find someone you can tolerate and then settle. There are far too many people out there to just call it quits after you've found one person who messaged you back and agreed to go out for coffee with you. Get some fucking confidence.
I used to think the exact same way as Shakes until a female friend sat me down and explained how attraction ACTUALLY works. I was still in denial and insisted that I'm a nice guy and girls should like that, so she forced me to read some of David Diangelo's newsletters and it finally started to click. You can't MAKE someone like you by being nice. Being "nice" all the time makes special gestures lose all meaning. You can't buy someone's attraction, it just doesn't work that way and is sleazy. Use your personality.
I always pay for the first date. Always. Even if the girl offers, no, I got this one.
This speaks volumes for me. If she wants to pay (possible reasons include her not feeling comfortable having a man pay for her because she is an adult and she doesn't know this guy, not wanting to feel like he's going to be owed sex, etc) he says no. He doesn't take into consideration her feelings, he says no.
OK: She offers to pay but you politely suggest that you'd really rather pay this time. Maybe even politely repeat that if she offers again.
Not OK: Demanding that you pay, or swiping the check first, if the woman is really insisting on splitting the check.
But I'm pretty cool with non-traditional gender roles on the whole.
There wasn't a relationship. Dude went out with her a few times in a week.
That's part of the problem, he thought that because he did some nice shit for her over the period of a week they did more then go on a few dates. Well sir but tough titty, if it's just been a few dates and one partner finds someone they like a lot more (who wants to see them), then the correct action is to stop seeing person 1 and to try things out with number 2.
You shouldn't just find someone you can tolerate and then settle. There are far too many people out there to just call it quits after you've found one person who messaged you back and agreed to go out for coffee with you. Get some fucking confidence.
I'm sure neither would call the other their boy/girlfriend , but there was still a relationship.
Improvolone on
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I used to think the exact same way as Shakes until a female friend sat me down and explained how attraction ACTUALLY works. I was still in denial and insisted that I'm a nice guy and girls should like that, so she forced me to read some of David Diangelo's newsletters and it finally started to click. You can't MAKE someone like you by being nice. Being "nice" all the time makes special gestures lose all meaning. You can't buy someone's attraction, it just doesn't work that way and is sleazy. Use your personality.
"Nice" is a default word to describe someone who lacks any other distinguishing feature.
You'll notice that every time you reject/get rejected, the words "you seem like a really nice..." appear. It's just one of those expected things, like not being a criminal or regular bathing. I've never stopped seeing someone because they seemed like a really sexy girl or a really smart person. It's just been because I don't find anything appealing about them beyond general human nicety.
EDIT Improv: they just hung out for a week. Relationship implies emotional and physical intimacy, that shit doesn't just appear that quickly. If someone thinks they do, they're wrong and need to grow up a little, ya know?
Did I take a wrong turn? I thought I clicked on a thread in D&D, but it appears I'm in the Whining Forum or something. Anyone gotten a message from a mail-order Russian bride lately?
I used to think the exact same way as Justin until a female friend sat me down and explained how attraction ACTUALLY works. I was still in denial and insisted that I'm a nice guy and girls should like that, so she forced me to read some of David Diangelo's newsletters and it finally started to click. You can't MAKE someone like you by being nice. Being "nice" all the time makes special gestures lose all meaning. You can't buy someone's attraction, it just doesn't work that way and is sleazy. Use your personality.
edit: Sorry Shakes, reading comprehension fail.
Correct. Relationships are not a math equation where you put in X effort/gestures/gifts and get Y love/affection/sex. It is way more complex than that.
"Nice guys" only see that they are doing these things other guys aren't (over the top/too soon "nice" gestures) and not realizing they are lacking a lot of other components. (They also focus on "jerks" so they have a villain.) Y'know, like having a personality, being happy with themselves and enjoying life. Their overly lavish and elaborate routines are just a sham and they shield themselves from ever really looking at their behavior by being the center of an elaborate persecution fantasy where they are the only defender of women.
I have a huge problem with these "White Knights" because I think if you deconstruct their actions/motives they treat women like wilting flowers and whores. Since the nice actions expect a result even if it's only in their heads and they're too cowardly to say it.
i dont ever insist on paying the bill, as thats just rude
but if the question doesnt come up, i usually end up paying unless she snuck it in while i was in the WC
If we're meeting for drinks or something, I expect to cover only myself. If I invite someone to dinner, I'll assume I'm paying and hope for them to offer. If they don't offer, or mention getting the movie tickets or what have you, I take this as a clear sign of the type of person they are.
note: this is early in the relationship
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
i dont ever insist on paying the bill, as thats just rude
but if the question doesnt come up, i usually end up paying unless she snuck it in while i was in the WC
If we're meeting or drinks or something, I expect to cover only myself. If I invite someone to dinner, I'll assume I'm paying and hope for them to offer. If they don't offer, or mention getting the movie tickets or what have you, I take this as a clear sign of the type of person this is.
Exactly. That's the point of dating after all: trying to figure out what type of person they are and seeing if you two are compatible in worldviews.
Problem is, a lot of guys make up their minds WAY before the date that they want sex/relationship with the girl, so that reflects on the way they behave, as in Justin's case. A girl that wants me to win her toys at the carnival, then go to her place to look after her because she's sick and then wants me to cook for her (but is too scared to ask for it openly) just screams "HIGH MAINTENANCE" to me. I would probably have said, "thanks, but no thanks."
i dont ever insist on paying the bill, as thats just rude
but if the question doesnt come up, i usually end up paying unless she snuck it in while i was in the WC
If we're meeting for drinks or something, I expect to cover only myself. If I invite someone to dinner, I'll assume I'm paying and hope for them to offer. If they don't offer, or mention getting the movie tickets or what have you, I take this as a clear sign of the type of person they are.
note: this is early in the relationship
k good. thats pretty much my MO
i just wanted to be sure that im not sending the wrong message
i dont ever insist on paying the bill, as thats just rude
but if the question doesnt come up, i usually end up paying unless she snuck it in while i was in the WC
If we're meeting for drinks or something, I expect to cover only myself. If I invite someone to dinner, I'll assume I'm paying and hope for them to offer. If they don't offer, or mention getting the movie tickets or what have you, I take this as a clear sign of the type of person they are.
note: this is early in the relationship
Lucky I saw your edit before I posted! Yeah, I agree with this. While you're still figuring each other out, you should be splitting costs and whatnot.
But as things get more serious, I start to shift towards the "ask for the date, pay for the date" mentality - i.e., if I want to go to dinner or a show or whatever, and I plan it all out, I will expect to pay for everything that I wanted to go to unless the other person strongly insists.
Except, the more serious things get, the more I think "dates" should phase out, and both people, in the course of hanging out etc, decide to go do a thing together.
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0
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I agree with all the things currently being said!
Dated a girl a month or two ago who never offered to even split things and it was a huge red flag. Huuuuuuge. Once sent the waitress away with the check when I was in the bathroom even so the waitress could return and offer it to me. She had a lot of other issues but I believe this was my early warning detection. The money was irrelevant, it was the absolute expectation that got under my skin.
In regards to my picture question from a ways back, I found a couple in my archives that may be ok. Might save me the time and effort required to setup what I want to do for pictures. It's time for some constructive criticism though. Yeah, I can take it.
Picture number 1. Taken in my old apartment. Some say it's a nice a picture. I say it's too damn dark.
Picture number 2. Some say it's a good showing of my like of playing hockey whenever I can. All I see is my gut hanging out.
Alright I got the jock on. I'm ready for any punishment you can dish out.
Except, the more serious things get, the more I think "dates" should phase out, and both people, in the course of hanging out etc, decide to go do a thing together.
Dated a girl a month or two ago who never offered to even split things and it was a huge red flag. Huuuuuuge. Once sent the waitress away with the check when I was in the bathroom even so the waitress could return and offer it to me. She had a lot of other issues but I believe this was my early warning detection. The money was irrelevant, it was the absolute expectation that got under my skin.
Did the waitress write you a note on the check or something?
Yeah I'm kinda curious about that also. How did you find out?
In regards to my picture question from a ways back, I found a couple in my archives that may be ok. Might save me the time and effort required to setup what I want to do for pictures. It's time for some constructive criticism though. Yeah, I can take it.
Picture number 1. Taken in my old apartment. Some say it's a nice a picture. I say it's too damn dark.
Picture number 2. Some say it's a good showing of my like of playing hockey whenever I can. All I see is my gut hanging out.
Alright I got the jock on. I'm ready for any punishment you can dish out.
The first picture isn't interesting and it doesn't make you look fun or approachable.
As for the second photo, yes it shows a gut but if you have it, well... yea. Its nice that it shows you at an activity, but on the other hand you're also just standing there. It's also a weird background (closed elementary school?), but that might just be where you live (small town?).
Improvolone on
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Did the waitress write you a note on the check or something?
No, my date told me she had sent the waitress away when I got back from the bathroom.
edit: and told the waitress to return when I got back. Not like a 'hey we're not sure if we're done yet' thing. She wanted the waitress to hand me the check so I'd have to pay. Classy, no?
The first picture isn't interesting and it doesn't make you look fun or approachable.
As for the second photo, yes it shows a gut but if you have it, well... yea. Its nice that it shows you at an activity, but on the other hand you're also just standing there. It's also a weird background (closed elementary school?), but that might just be where you live (small town?).
Sadly no I don't live in a small town. It was a pickup street hockey game at a LAN party, so that's the reason for the background. I was playing defense, so I was of course playing back with that girl in the pic. The only other activity pic I have that isn't...weird...is me taking my motorcycle course. The problem is I'm not in the foreground, and I'm wearing a motorcycle helmet.
Did the waitress write you a note on the check or something?
No, my date told me she had sent the waitress away when I got back from the bathroom.
edit: and told the waitress to return when I got back. Not like a 'hey we're not sure if we're done yet' thing. She wanted the waitress to hand me the check so I'd have to pay. Classy, no?
The first picture isn't interesting and it doesn't make you look fun or approachable.
As for the second photo, yes it shows a gut but if you have it, well... yea. Its nice that it shows you at an activity, but on the other hand you're also just standing there. It's also a weird background (closed elementary school?), but that might just be where you live (small town?).
Sadly no I don't live in a small town. It was a pickup street hockey game at a LAN party, so that's the reason for the background. I was playing defense, so I was of course playing back with that girl in the pic. The only other activity pic I have that isn't...weird...is me taking my motorcycle course. The problem is I'm not in the foreground, and I'm wearing a motorcycle helmet.
If it looks cool though, that could be a nice photo. Not every photo needs to show what you look like.
Improvolone on
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Did the waitress write you a note on the check or something?
No, my date told me she had sent the waitress away when I got back from the bathroom.
edit: and told the waitress to return when I got back. Not like a 'hey we're not sure if we're done yet' thing. She wanted the waitress to hand me the check so I'd have to pay. Classy, no?
o_O
what could she possibly have been thinking?
That he would be happy to pay for the check.
Gabriel_Pitt on
0
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Did the waitress write you a note on the check or something?
No, my date told me she had sent the waitress away when I got back from the bathroom.
edit: and told the waitress to return when I got back. Not like a 'hey we're not sure if we're done yet' thing. She wanted the waitress to hand me the check so I'd have to pay. Classy, no?
o_O
what could she possibly have been thinking?
This is my life. A series of mishaps like this is why I'm on dating hiatus. I was just... baffled by her behavior.
Anyway, Decius, do you have any shots of you with your friends? Usually one good 'I'm having fun' picture is nice. You look waaaay too stonefaced in picture 1 to use.
OnTheLastCastle on
0
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Did the waitress write you a note on the check or something?
No, my date told me she had sent the waitress away when I got back from the bathroom.
edit: and told the waitress to return when I got back. Not like a 'hey we're not sure if we're done yet' thing. She wanted the waitress to hand me the check so I'd have to pay. Classy, no?
o_O
what could she possibly have been thinking?
That he would be happy to pay for the check.
Double post: Justin would've been super happy about it! For me, multiple dates without her even attempting to say 'Want to split?' was just... weird. I'd never had it happen.
The first picture isn't interesting and it doesn't make you look fun or approachable.
As for the second photo, yes it shows a gut but if you have it, well... yea. Its nice that it shows you at an activity, but on the other hand you're also just standing there. It's also a weird background (closed elementary school?), but that might just be where you live (small town?).
Sadly no I don't live in a small town. It was a pickup street hockey game at a LAN party, so that's the reason for the background. I was playing defense, so I was of course playing back with that girl in the pic. The only other activity pic I have that isn't...weird...is me taking my motorcycle course. The problem is I'm not in the foreground, and I'm wearing a motorcycle helmet.
If it looks cool though, that could be a nice photo. Not every photo needs to show what you look like.
Let me see if I can find it...ah there it is.
I'm being educated on how sequential shifting works.
I'm also trying to avoid pics where I still have my goatee, since it doesn't look good and I don't intend on growing it back. This is what's limiting my selection.
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
That is a fine picture. Just needs a good caption.
Maybe something about how the instructor is explaining how to pop off a ramp and ride directly into a helicopter/cargo plane. Because that is what it looks like he is showing you with his hands.
edit: I blame watching The A Team for making that my first thought.
Anyway, Decius, do you have any shots of you with your friends? Usually one good 'I'm having fun' picture is nice. You look waaaay too stonefaced in picture 1 to use.
I typically look stone-faced, unless I'm shit faced. As for the first question, I don't have any of these pictures. People I know have some. Sadly I'm not talking to these people right now. I have a couple pics I could use, though they are old and require more explaining then I really want to do. Edit: When I get home I'll post one for you guys, since you seem a little more open minded.
That is a fine picture. Just needs a good caption.
Maybe something about how the instructor is explaining how to pop off a ramp and ride directly into a helicopter/cargo plane. Because that is what it looks like he is showing you with his hands.
edit: I blame watching The A Team for making that my first thought.
This I can do. I can write convincing bullshit with the best of them. Now I just need to find/take some normal pictures of me.
If we're meeting for drinks or something, I expect to cover only myself. If I invite someone to dinner, I'll assume I'm paying and hope for them to offer. If they don't offer, or mention getting the movie tickets or what have you, I take this as a clear sign of the type of person they are.
note: this is early in the relationship
See, now, when I first started dating, I can't remember if I was just going to the movies or dinner or what it was, but it was something simple. The subject of who paid came up when I was telling my parents about it and they both told me that if the guy doesn't pay for the activity, it isn't a date. Granted, these are people who were born in the fifties and I'm assuming the rules of dating were different at that time, but that is the mindset they've given me, so I always expect that if I'm on a date, my gentleman friend is going to pick up the check. If he doesn't, no big deal. It's not like I don't bring money, but I always give him the chance to offer because, to me, picking up the check is a sign that this is, in fact, a date.
This doesn't make me a cheap bitch or anything. I don't think it says anything terribly negative about me. I think it just makes me traditional, or old fashioned.
That being said, I dated a guy three years ago where I had to pay for everything because his ass was broke all the time. So if I didn't want to sit around his apartment watching whatever we could pick up off the rabbit ears, or watch him play some old school console game (dude only had one controller, gah!), I had to pick up the tab so we could go out and do something interesting. So it's not that I'm unwilling to pay. I understand that some situations mean I'm going to have to pay my own way, but I generally expect that the first date is on my date, and not on me.
Posts
That quote was why I decided to weigh in on this. He needs to realize that with his attitude the stuff he did 'for' that girl was just as much playacting as the absolute garbage found in The Game.
When I do something for someone, it's over, it's done. I don't get upset because they didn't appreciate it enough and let me put my P in the V.
edit: Wow, he posted and reinforced my entire point 10000x.
Relationships are based on mutual respect, dude. I am absolutely positive that is the most important part of a relationship and basically the foundation to everything else that happens in them. Respect.
edit: Sorry Shakes, reading comprehension fail.
That's part of the problem, he thought that because he did some nice shit for her over the period of a week they did more then go on a few dates. Well sir but tough titty, if it's just been a few dates and one partner finds someone they like a lot more (who wants to see them), then the correct action is to stop seeing person 1 and to try things out with number 2.
You shouldn't just find someone you can tolerate and then settle. There are far too many people out there to just call it quits after you've found one person who messaged you back and agreed to go out for coffee with you. Get some fucking confidence.
I think you meant Justin?
OK: She offers to pay but you politely suggest that you'd really rather pay this time. Maybe even politely repeat that if she offers again.
Not OK: Demanding that you pay, or swiping the check first, if the woman is really insisting on splitting the check.
But I'm pretty cool with non-traditional gender roles on the whole.
I'm sure neither would call the other their boy/girlfriend , but there was still a relationship.
"Nice" is a default word to describe someone who lacks any other distinguishing feature.
You'll notice that every time you reject/get rejected, the words "you seem like a really nice..." appear. It's just one of those expected things, like not being a criminal or regular bathing. I've never stopped seeing someone because they seemed like a really sexy girl or a really smart person. It's just been because I don't find anything appealing about them beyond general human nicety.
EDIT Improv: they just hung out for a week. Relationship implies emotional and physical intimacy, that shit doesn't just appear that quickly. If someone thinks they do, they're wrong and need to grow up a little, ya know?
i dont ever insist on paying the bill, as thats just rude
but if the question doesnt come up, i usually end up paying unless she snuck it in while i was in the WC
Correct. Relationships are not a math equation where you put in X effort/gestures/gifts and get Y love/affection/sex. It is way more complex than that.
"Nice guys" only see that they are doing these things other guys aren't (over the top/too soon "nice" gestures) and not realizing they are lacking a lot of other components. (They also focus on "jerks" so they have a villain.) Y'know, like having a personality, being happy with themselves and enjoying life. Their overly lavish and elaborate routines are just a sham and they shield themselves from ever really looking at their behavior by being the center of an elaborate persecution fantasy where they are the only defender of women.
I have a huge problem with these "White Knights" because I think if you deconstruct their actions/motives they treat women like wilting flowers and whores. Since the nice actions expect a result even if it's only in their heads and they're too cowardly to say it.
If we're meeting for drinks or something, I expect to cover only myself. If I invite someone to dinner, I'll assume I'm paying and hope for them to offer. If they don't offer, or mention getting the movie tickets or what have you, I take this as a clear sign of the type of person they are.
note: this is early in the relationship
Exactly. That's the point of dating after all: trying to figure out what type of person they are and seeing if you two are compatible in worldviews.
Problem is, a lot of guys make up their minds WAY before the date that they want sex/relationship with the girl, so that reflects on the way they behave, as in Justin's case. A girl that wants me to win her toys at the carnival, then go to her place to look after her because she's sick and then wants me to cook for her (but is too scared to ask for it openly) just screams "HIGH MAINTENANCE" to me. I would probably have said, "thanks, but no thanks."
k good. thats pretty much my MO
i just wanted to be sure that im not sending the wrong message
But as things get more serious, I start to shift towards the "ask for the date, pay for the date" mentality - i.e., if I want to go to dinner or a show or whatever, and I plan it all out, I will expect to pay for everything that I wanted to go to unless the other person strongly insists.
Dated a girl a month or two ago who never offered to even split things and it was a huge red flag. Huuuuuuge. Once sent the waitress away with the check when I was in the bathroom even so the waitress could return and offer it to me. She had a lot of other issues but I believe this was my early warning detection. The money was irrelevant, it was the absolute expectation that got under my skin.
I never finish anyth
Yeah I'm kinda curious about that also. How did you find out?
I never finish anyth
As for the second photo, yes it shows a gut but if you have it, well... yea. Its nice that it shows you at an activity, but on the other hand you're also just standing there. It's also a weird background (closed elementary school?), but that might just be where you live (small town?).
No, my date told me she had sent the waitress away when I got back from the bathroom.
edit: and told the waitress to return when I got back. Not like a 'hey we're not sure if we're done yet' thing. She wanted the waitress to hand me the check so I'd have to pay. Classy, no?
Sadly no I don't live in a small town. It was a pickup street hockey game at a LAN party, so that's the reason for the background. I was playing defense, so I was of course playing back with that girl in the pic. The only other activity pic I have that isn't...weird...is me taking my motorcycle course. The problem is I'm not in the foreground, and I'm wearing a motorcycle helmet.
I never finish anyth
o_O
Shes got balls
o_O
what could she possibly have been thinking?
If it looks cool though, that could be a nice photo. Not every photo needs to show what you look like.
This is my life. A series of mishaps like this is why I'm on dating hiatus. I was just... baffled by her behavior.
Anyway, Decius, do you have any shots of you with your friends? Usually one good 'I'm having fun' picture is nice. You look waaaay too stonefaced in picture 1 to use.
Double post: Justin would've been super happy about it! For me, multiple dates without her even attempting to say 'Want to split?' was just... weird. I'd never had it happen.
You missed the opportunity to leave the restaurant and make her pay!
Let me see if I can find it...ah there it is.
I'm being educated on how sequential shifting works.
I'm also trying to avoid pics where I still have my goatee, since it doesn't look good and I don't intend on growing it back. This is what's limiting my selection.
I never finish anyth
Maybe something about how the instructor is explaining how to pop off a ramp and ride directly into a helicopter/cargo plane. Because that is what it looks like he is showing you with his hands.
edit: I blame watching The A Team for making that my first thought.
I typically look stone-faced, unless I'm shit faced. As for the first question, I don't have any of these pictures. People I know have some. Sadly I'm not talking to these people right now. I have a couple pics I could use, though they are old and require more explaining then I really want to do. Edit: When I get home I'll post one for you guys, since you seem a little more open minded.
This I can do. I can write convincing bullshit with the best of them. Now I just need to find/take some normal pictures of me.
I never finish anyth
This doesn't make me a cheap bitch or anything. I don't think it says anything terribly negative about me. I think it just makes me traditional, or old fashioned.
That being said, I dated a guy three years ago where I had to pay for everything because his ass was broke all the time. So if I didn't want to sit around his apartment watching whatever we could pick up off the rabbit ears, or watch him play some old school console game (dude only had one controller, gah!), I had to pick up the tab so we could go out and do something interesting. So it's not that I'm unwilling to pay. I understand that some situations mean I'm going to have to pay my own way, but I generally expect that the first date is on my date, and not on me.